Getting rid of camper annex and flys Any thoughts??

[Brisbane Puff]

Just came back to Brisbane after a seven week trip around western Queensland. A lot of the time was a solidarity camp site off road near old opal mines. Where we made the effort to fit the canvas side annex and on times the annex walls, along with the required flys above the beds and the off side fly that is around 2.5 metres long to make the off side window weather proof during rains. To achieve all this we required 12 tent poles, and 20 tent pegs minimum. Extra if we assembled the shower & toilet tent. At one site we experienced high gusty winds and needed to peg down the walls of the annex. Another 12 pegs, plus some extra ropes. combine the effort with installing the annex roof, bed flys, and off side fly into the sail tracks left us with a feeling of the whole set up camp ( and pulling down) thingy had hairs on it...

This camp building was a pain if one was staying put for a few days, but when you include just over night stops during travelling from one place to another, the whole thing became a total PITA. So much so, that rather then raise the camper for one nights stay, we tended to drop into caravan parks and stay the night in a cabin provided... So, things came to a head when we arrived at Quilpie during a rain period.. Needed 5 days for the roads to dry out so we could get to the cattle station where we were expected..  At $150.00 A NIGHT, we stayed for 5 nights and then with 4wd and diff locks in we made the 110km trip up and across the Balloo River flood plain.

SO, this set me thinking that there must be an easier and better way then sail tracks , tent poles, ropes and pegs.

AND, so I have carefully looked at, inspected, measured and weighed the extendable pull out awnings intended for bolting onto a 4wd roof rack.
The intention is to flush bolt the frame to the camper top, (plenty of area) then seal the aluminum extrusion to the camper body (roof section) and just go from there. SO in all. we would have a 3 metre pull out annex down each side of the camper and two 2 metre pull outs for each end for bed flys.

We probably wont want the annex cover to extend out by the 3 metres, ( maybe 2.5 metres) but our friendly local canvas guy says that he will shorten them to what ever we require. Same goes for the bed ends. The beauty of the bed end flys is that they wouldn't need the side extension (tension) poles as the outter section would be roped and pegged same as the normal flys.

So, what we end up for a over night stay is unzipping two bed flys, and using 4 tent ropes and 4 pegs. Possibly the side annex cover and using 2 ropes and 2 pegs..

My canvas guy says he will make light walls that will clip onto the annex cover to give us all round weather protection...

So, my question to one and all is there I have missed in my plan?? Has any one done this already?? Does it have any hairs on it???
One other thing is that the bed flys must be used otherwise we might be packing wet canvas over the beds in the morning...

The roof of the camper raises electrictly, so I can't see why we couldn't be all set up in under half an hour.. Thats a fraction of the time to do the canvas and tent pole thing...

[edz]

For the bed end fly, what about a solid crossbar  that the fly rolls up with and two horizontal spreader bars that clip back to the roof and tie the fly down to the drawbar / rear bar with ratchet straps or bungies . Or a couple of those spring steel rods that hold window flaps out on roof top tents and have them fit into the bed slide to hold the bed fly  .
A larger version of what Al n Jan have done for their window protectors, could even do the same for an awning .. No pegs / poles to the ground required ..
Couldnt get the pic to load,  as in the reply 57 pic of their caravan window awnings http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=46681.50

[GeoffA]

....
So, what we end up for a over night stay is unzipping two bed flys, and using 4 tent ropes and 4 pegs.........
....

Can you not do that ^ with the current setup?

Yes, setting up a forest of poles, ropes and pegs would very quickly become tedious.
I look at some setups and wonder why the owners would bother.

What camper do you have?
Is your electric roof lifting mechanism up to the task of raising the addional weight of your proposed mods?

 

[Brisbane Puff]

Edz.. I have thought many times of making the bed flys to just a roll up with a zippered cover. But I want the fly to stand well clear of the bed canvas. In that case, one would still have to use tent poles and two double ropes to get the tension on the flys. With a pull out, the whole fly is fixed to a solid frame, (thinking of removing the two extension poles), but the outter end of the fly would have a frame with the legs incorporated and at the very most would only need one rope of each corner for windy days.

GeoffA.. The whole camper has been modified from ground up. The lifting mechanism consists of two 1350Kg winches with a 2:1 pulley system which equates to 5400Kg lifting power. The roof is Braided Glass Mat and weighs around 80Kg. There are currently two 240 watt solar panels fitted. Prior to that we had one solar panel, plus a roof rack which carried various items including jerry cans. This was removed to fit the second solar panel.. The actual lifting arms were built with heavy lift in mind and work on a canter leaver system. Two 3 metre awnings weigh 17Kg each, but we intend to get them modified back to 2.5 metres, probably saving maybe 2 to 3 kg each. The two metre bed flys weigh about 9 Kg each. Again cut back to 2.5 metres, so about 8kgs each. So therefore an additional weight of around 40Kg with fitting bolts ect..

Btw, the lifting cable on each winch is aircraft stainless cable with a working strain of 475Kg, so safe working load is around 1 tonne.

At the moment, we fit the canvas annex, bed flys, and the offside fly before lifting the roof, so not that much difference really considering that the pull out covers would need to be undone before lifting the roof, otherwise we wouldn't be able to reach the zips..

The only problems that I can see is that the pull outs would have to angle down, same as a normal annex, and so, we may have to address how the extension poles hinge front the fixed frame. But the extension poles pivot point bolt position would need to be moved inwards about 50mm so the cover overlaps the extension poles enough that sides can be clipped to it.. ( just on the annex side)..

So over to you guys.. Really open to your thoughts..

[Alien]

I can see you're frustration now we have a picture but can't help but think the 4wd type awnings may not be the best option IMO.
Theses are my concerns...
You would have to consider the weight of each and how they attach to your roof so it does created damage when traveling due to road conditions.
To deploy these awnings the roof would have to be fully raised so height is the next issue.
The knuckles on the side arms don't allow for to much downward angle so for rain run off you made need angle brackets at the mounts, more work and harder to seal against the roof edge.
They still need guy ropes and pegs so no saving in time or effort there.
A 3 minute gain(maybe) on removing existing poles from their carrier vs self contained on the 4wd type.
Have a look at this video chosen at random to show how they work...
https://youtu.be/DVz0esb5bwQ
Width for the 2 ends may require some customising of the bag, rails, canvas so $$$ starting to add up.

Given I'm only working from your picture I'd be rethinking about getting zip bag made  for the existing awnings similar to the ones seen on Jayco's etc..
The bag would have to attach under the rope rail and again traveling weight needs to be considered.
This method would be lighter than the 4wd type as no poles and rails and would deploy with the roof down as you do now.
If only there was a forum member who could make a canvas bag or three

(Please don't take this reply the wrong way.
I like to see people think outside the square.
This is only how I saw thing after looking at the picture.)
Cheers, Kyle.

[Hoyks]

I have one of these off the side of my camper. It doesn't weight a lot and is reasonably easy to set up. The arms when folded out have good articulation, I can have the awning pegged out so it will shed the heaviest rain.

I don't have the side walls though, so can't comment on them, but looking at your setup they would need extensions added to the sides and probably a sailtrack and a skirt to stop the wind blowing under the trailer. The awnings are braced on 4 sides with metal spreaders or extrusion, so you only need a guy rope on each of the outboard corners. Still not the perfect solution.

http://www.austrackcampers.com.au/product/austrack-2-5m-x-2-5m-vehicle-awning/

[Brisbane Puff]

Alien.. Had a look at the video. Was already aware of the wind gust danger.. Also thought of the Jayco idea and the light weight awning still seems the option. As far a traveling goes the camper is just 7 foot wide with the roof width where the bed fly awnings would fit is 6 foot 6 inches so the bag when zipped would over lap the width by a couple of inches, but would not be as wide as the roof with the side awnings attached. Incidentally, the roof with the side awnings (because of the taper) would be no wider then 7 foot 2 inches.
There would always be two of us to open and fold up the awning, and two ropes per awning means a total of eight ropes rather then a minimum of 20..

Traveling and copping mud and crap would be an issue (look at the photo below), but then anything attached would end up the same anyway.
(That photo was after we had crossed the Bulloo River flood plain which was 19Km wide. We had both diffs locked the whole way and the speedo read 35Km by the time we had got across). The photo would be the extreme example though.

Articulation of the tension (spreader) arms is the main issue. The extra modifications and work involved is not a problem. Being a retired engineer, I would go nuts without a problem to think about. At the moment, I am thinking of a fabricated knuckle joint that would insert in the tubing adjacent to the pivot knuckle.. Having

Btw, the mounting frame for the awning would be flush mounted to the camper roof with a sealant between. Where the standard mounting bolts slide along the profile, we would be using 4 pairs of bolts that extend through the roof using stainless bolts.

Hoyks.. I just knew that some one would have thought of this idea first... Would like to see a photo of your installation..
The sides would be made from a light weight canvas similar to the top by a very friendly canvas guy I know.. What the idea there is to move the spreader arms pivot point inwards by about 50mm per side. This would enable the top to over lap the spreader arms. Then we insert brass eyelets along each side of the top to which the sides hook into. The outer wall would fit into the existing sail track as a separate panel. This way, we can have just one side or all three depending on weather conditions.. The only proviso is that maybe if all the walls are fitted, and in heavy rain, we may have to support the spreader arms half way along the length. This would be using a tent pole with a plastic horse shoe clip instead of the usual pin top.

Think that covers all up to this point, so back to you guys.... And thanks for the comments and ideas... 

[edz]

Bagged fixed awnings ..yellow lines are ally poles,  hinged  each upper end  and clipped to the camper tub ..orange lines are tie downs ..just unfold / fold  support poles and tie downs over onto the flies and roll them up and zip up the  bag done when you raise / lower the roof .

[Brisbane Puff]

Thanks Edz.. Thats another alternative.. Doesn't matter which way we go, the idea of bagged flys is defiantly the only way to go....

On digression, that photo of the slightly muddy truck was taken at a place that may interest you.. Thats Alaric homestead, a working cattle station open for veterans and ex service men and their family. Also to guests of service men.. Lots to see and do if you like the outback.. We spent two weeks of out trip there. Spent days opal hunting. (photos below)..

So, back to the subject..

[edz]

Just googled it thanks BP, had heard of a place out west  but didn't have its name .. 

[Brisbane Puff]

Edz... know the place and the people involved very well..  PM me if you want photos or information.... The station is part of the Scott family.. Diamantina Cattle Company.. There is a lot more to the place then just the homestead and what you see in the slide show..

So... Back to the subject..

[Alien]

Bagged fixed awnings ..yellow lines are ally poles,  hinged  each upper end  and clipped to the camper tub ..orange lines are tie downs ..just unfold / fold  support poles and tie downs over onto the flies and roll them up and zip up the  bag done when you raise / lower the roof .

If you went this way with the spreader bars maybe you could tie off the guy ropes to the draw bar/van lower edge.
You have then eliminated the tent pegs so more versatility on where you can stop let alone the time saving.

It's good to see various ways off addressing the concern.
There always more than one way to skin a ca.. Er, go about things.

[Fizzie]

If you went this way with the spreader bars maybe you could tie off the guy ropes to the draw bar/van lower edge.
You have then eliminated the tent pegs so more versatility on where you can stop let alone the time saving.

How about something like heavy duty occy strap / ratchet strap from your spreader bars to the drawbar - much quicker than tying knots & much easier to undo than fighting with knots in wet rope!

Graeme

[Alan Loy]

Murucycles just posted this in another thread http://bundutec.com.au/awnings/bundu-awn/

Appears to be the best awning I,ve seen.  He is putting it on a campertrailer

[Muckinhell]

Have similar set up an is how i bought mine, bed ends are just dew covers really in a vinyl material and just occy strap round the bed ends onto the trailer. it also came with a kakadu awning wich we so far have only used the 4 roof support poles and 2 upright poles with 2 ropes pegged out for non weather event type camping as the kakadu has a bar inserted in the end of the awning that your just slip ya ropes onto and tighten up.

the side photo was in gale force ish winds at beach so 4 poles whent up, but last 2 wknds just used 2 no worries.