Tesla Model S car. Autopilot mode on, Fatal crash

[Cruiser 105Tvan]

Seems they still have some way to go.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/technology/a/31960508/us-safety-regulators-probing-tesla-car-fatality/#page1

Auto pilot failed to detect a Semi trailer side-on across the road ahead and tried to drive under it.
Must've been programmed from a Vin Diesel movie.

They still have a long way to go.

[baggs71]

Not supprised....

[powerd]

Mind you - it might also be worth asking a couple of questions.  Did the driver take any avoiding action, if not, why not.  After all, the driver is still fully responsible, is meant to be in charge at all times and can and should immediately override the system at any time danger is present.  Just like using cruise, the driver is still responsible for what happens.  Many cars already have similar systems, of course none are perfect, no-one claims they are and in fact, makers remind owners regularly that they must remain fully attentive and in charge of the vehicle.

Secondly, one should also ask, how many lives have been saved and accidents avoided through use of these systems already?  Probably lots, but we don't have statistics on what hasn't happened.

I hope this doesn't end up in some stupid case decision like the "unintended acceleration" finding against Audi some years ago, which has never been demonstrated to have been done by the car itself or been replicated anywhere.

[tk421]

"Preliminary reports indicated that the crash happened when a tractor-trailer made a left turn in front of the Tesla at an intersection, according to Thomas"

How many humans would have managed to avoid that?

1 Death in 209 million KM for Tesla cars driving with Autopilot activated.
1 Death in every 150million KM driven in America for all vehicles
1 Death in every 96million driven worldwide for all vehicles

Still way safer than average

[tracker]

Surly there is an over ride mechanism such as with cruise control.....I mean i'm no engineer ....butttt....FFS.


                                      Just saying.     Cheers Tracker.

[smartyingreen]

"Preliminary reports indicated that the crash happened when a tractor-trailer made a left turn in front of the Tesla at an intersection, according to Thomas"

How many humans would have managed to avoid that?

1 Death in 209 million KM for Tesla cars driving with Autopilot activated.
1 Death in every 150million KM driven in America for all vehicles
1 Death in every 96million driven worldwide for all vehicles

Still way safer than average

Not too sure you can say this is an average, clearly the number of TESLA auto Drive cars on the road is sweet FA compared to the every other car out there. I'm sure that if you were to use the statistics of 2013 Bugatti Veyron vs every other car in the USA or world then they too would look super safe!

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[Bird]

  Did the driver take any avoiding action, if not, why not. 

the car is supposed to do this for you.... thus the "autopilot mode"

[powerd]

the car is supposed to do this for you.... thus the "autopilot mode"

The driver is still responsible, regardless, and is meant to remain attentive and take over as necessary.  It is an assistance aid only. 

BTW, I have worked in this industry, and this was the big concern of car makers - that no matter what owners and the public were told ie the driver is always responsible and must oversee control, not all accidents can be avoided by either the car or the driver - many people would be tempted to blame the car. 

[Cruiser 105Tvan]

Ok, brings to mind the added bits in the winebago operators manual.

Some precious person engaged the "Cruise control" then got out of the drivers seat to make themselves a cuppa.
Then has the HIDE to Blame the Manufacturer for not warning about IDIOT DRIVERS NOT Understanding the Cruise control function.
Cost Winebago US a squillion.

You just cannot help some people, they want to invoke Darwins Law, Survival of the fittest/most capable.
And then blame it on everyone else because it turns against them.

[tk421]

Not too sure you can say this is an average, clearly the number of TESLA auto Drive cars on the road is sweet FA compared to the every other car out there. I'm sure that if you were to use the statistics of 2013 Bugatti Veyron vs every other car in the USA or world then they too would look super safe!

Sent from my SM-T815Y using Tapatalk

This is the first death in a Tesla on autopilot. And that's after 25,000 of them have travelled 209 million km on autopilot (there's 100,000+ Model S on the road, 25,000 with autopilot). That's bloody impressive.

Lets put 100 humans through this scenario and see how many crash?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9X-5fKzmy38 ?  My guess is the Tesla will come out on top, you know given it is processing more data faster, from more sensors, with a quicker response time than a human.

How fast was the car going? How far away was the truck when it turned? Why was a semi trailer turning in front of an oncoming car?
If he's doing 110km/h and a truck turns across the front of him when he's 50m away, he's going to crash whether he's driving or the car is.  Auto pilot doesn't magically suspend the laws of physics, so its going to take the car 75m to stop (+25m thinking time for a human driver to react) .

Preliminary reports say "neither Autopilot nor the driver noticed the white side of the tractor trailer against a brightly lit sky, so the brake was not applied."  So if he'd been driving it himself, would the accident have been prevented?

Tesla will update the software and it will improve, and get better.

They made cars drive behind a man waving a red flag when they first came out due to 'safety' fears. Things will change.

[chisel]

As said above, the driver is responsible.  If the driver did not see the truck, why not? 

Having said that it does raise the question of whether the systems are now so good that the driver gets the false impression that they do not need to be paying attention.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out.  Tesla isn't the only company with similar systems but theirs is probably the most advanced (dare I say it - the most likely to make a driver think they can take a nap).

[tk421]

Mercedes have a similar system but it won't activate unless your hands are on the wheel.
Tesla have a warning to keep your hands on the wheel it don't enforce compliance. They may not be able to argue their way out of culpability for this one if them authorities decide to go after them.

But until the investigators release full facts we won't know the cause. To blame autopilot failure at this stage is premature.

[paulo]

If you have to be paying attention when using "Autopilot", what's the point of "Autopilot"??

[achjimmy]

I hope this doesn't end up in some stupid case decision like the "unintended acceleration" finding against Audi some years ago, which has never been demonstrated to have been done by the car itself or been replicated anywhere.

Yeah cause VW Audi is such upfront honest manufacturer it couldn't be their fault 

I had a friend bought a rover v8 in the 90s and it took off on cruise and accelerated to 140km by itself fortunately it was on the nth free way. Of course it had never happened before ! When they couldn't solve it he traded it back

[Rumpig]

If you have to be paying attention when using "Autopilot", what's the point of "Autopilot"??

was thinking the same thing myself...what's the point in owning one of these vehicles then if you practically need to be driving it anyhow?

[Fizzie]

was thinking the same thing myself...what's the point in owning one of these vehicles then if you practically need to be driving it anyhow?

From Tesla:

"The autopilot system allows the car to keep itself in a lane, maintain speed and operate for a limited time without a driver doing the steering.

Tesla said in a statement: "Autopilot is by far the most advanced driver assistance system on the road, but it does not turn a Tesla into an autonomous vehicle and does not allow the driver to abdicate responsibility."

& it now appears that the driver may have been watching a DVD while "driving":

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-02/tesla-crash-dvd-player-found-in-car-florida-police-say/7562962

[bobnrob]

I use a handle to wind up/down the Patrol's windows
I have to use a key to unlock the 2 front, and cargo area doors
I have to use a key to start the car
Cruise control is my right foot, and the right-hand pedal on the floor
I use the left and right-hand pedals on the floor, and a steel stick sticking up from the floor to help go forward

---> I <--- drive my car....if I didn't want to drive, I'd walk, catch a lift/taxi/bus/train/plane/ride a horse...I refuse to ride a pushbike 

[Rumpig]

From Tesla:

"The autopilot system allows the car to keep itself in a lane, maintain speed and operate for a limited time without a driver doing the steering.

Tesla said in a statement: "Autopilot is by far the most advanced driver assistance system on the road, but it does not turn a Tesla into an autonomous vehicle and does not allow the driver to abdicate responsibility."

& it now appears that the driver may have been watching a DVD while "driving":

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-02/tesla-crash-dvd-player-found-in-car-florida-police-say/7562962

i get their hype about their product, still don't understand why you'd get one, as you still practically have to drive it / be watching everything incase it goes pear shaped....so why not just drive the vehicle anyhow?

[Cruiser 105Tvan]

Darwin's Award strikes again, well done that Tesla occupant!!!

[BaseCamp]

Read today that the first responders discovered a small portable DVD player still running in the car....

The article states that the driver  was watching a harry potter movie perhaps negligent and oblivious to his/her surroundings....   sad....

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[tk421]

i get their hype about their product, still don't understand why you'd get one, as you still practically have to drive it / be watching everything incase it goes pear shaped....so why not just drive the vehicle anyhow?

There's 100,000 Telsa model s out there. Only 25,000 have enabled Autopilot.

The hype around Telsa is more about the whole package and the promise of affordable electric cars that people want to own. They're using Autopilot to generate buzz and show off to a certain extent

Every manufacturer will have them soon. Mercedes will have a similar system in the 2017 e-class. Subaru eyesight is a slightly less capable version. Tesla's is just the most advanced driver assist package. Google's driverless cars are the ultimate version.

[Rumpig]

There's 100,000 Telsa model s out there. Only 25,000 have enabled Autopilot.

The hype around Telsa is more about the whole package and the promise of affordable electric cars that people want to own. They're using Autopilot to generate buzz and show off to a certain extent

Every manufacturer will have them soon. Mercedes will have a similar system in the 2017 e-class. Subaru eyesight is a slightly less capable version. Tesla's is just the most advanced driver assist package. Google's driverless cars are the ultimate version.

i get the electric car thing, don't get the "buzz" on a driverless car you actually pretty much need to drive

[#jonesy]

This is the first death in a Tesla on autopilot. And that's after 25,000 of them have travelled 209 million km on autopilot (there's 100,000+ Model S on the road, 25,000 with autopilot). That's bloody impressive.

Not the most impressive stat when you break it down, 25,000 doing 209,000,000 km or 8,360 km.  I'd hate to be the one who only got to drive 8,360.

Apart from that it is such a small sample size that if tomorrow if another fatal occurred on autopilot it would be 1 death per 104.5million km, which under the USA average. or worse still about the half the Australian average of 1 in 200,000,000km

Lets put 100 humans through this scenario and see how many crash?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9X-5fKzmy38 ?  My guess is the Tesla will come out on top, you know given it is processing more data faster, from more sensors, with a quicker response time than a human.

But hard to judge the speed from the video, but would you go that fast next to a lime of slow / stopping traffic in the first place, with intersections and the likelihood of someone switching lanes?

[Cruiser 105Tvan]

More info.
http://www.9news.com.au/world/2016/07/27/05/27/tesla-on-autopilot-was-speeding-before-fatal-crash
And pictures of both the TESLA (what a mess) and the Semi (it'll buff out).

[tk421]

Classic lack of responsibility shown these days. He set the cruise control to a speed above the speed limit and was watching a DVD at the time, and ignored the warnings, yet its Tesla's fault?

Whilst the damage is bad, the Tesla probably looks worse than it would have originally because the first responders would have cut the roof off to free the driver.