Author Topic: Weights and Payloads  (Read 6177 times)

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Offline lilstookie

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Weights and Payloads
« on: January 24, 2016, 12:36:36 PM »
On Wednesday we were advised our trailer was overweight by 14kg, giving our new Cub Spacevan a net weight of 1464kg. We knew we were close to the limit but thought we were under by approximately 30kg by guesstimates. This has sent Lil into one of her OCD spins and every single item in the trailer (except for the small and light, already screwed on 12V bits) has been weighed and accounted for (rounded UP to the nearest 0.5kg). The camper has a Tare of 1074kg and ATM of 1450kg (with a suspension rating on the leaf springs of 1500kg), giving us a maximum allowable payload of 376kg.

We thought we’d share our payload information with others, as this is a matter with safety, warranty, insurance and general towing cost ramifications that many may not have thought about. We’re a family of five on the road long-term and know that we are light travellers compared to many others on the road full-time. We have learned that, although we have a lovely big fridge-box on our drawbar which holds our 60L Engel perfectly, the fully-loaded weight of close to 100kg for that fridge plus a full load of 100kg of water (80kg water tank plus a 20L jerrycan) would take more than half of our payload.

We carry our solar panels in the back of the car, along with the 60L Engel, and now travel with just 20L of water. If we need more water, we either have to trip out with our jerrycan to pickup more or (as we have been doing so far), use our Lifestraw Mission to filter creek/waterhole/bore water and fill the tank that way and drain the tank before leaving the site. Our storage is nowhere near jam-packed and, while we do have some ‘luxury’ items, these are well used and well worth their weight.

We will be upgrading our suspension very soon to give more than 50kg leeway. To say we’re disappointed that our ‘off-road’ camper’s suspension almost certainly won’t handle much more than potholed bitumen, let alone the 350km of rough Burke Developmental Road between Dunbar and Petford to get back to work in April, without flattening our springs is an understatement. We blame no-one but ourselves, though still think we did the best job we could with research from a huge distance using photos, questions and forums to gather information. Obviously we’ve learned that very specific questions need to be asked about some pretty key components fitted to any home on wheels.

For anyone who is about to hit the road (holiday makers, short or long term travellers), please consider our information and think long and hard about what you really need and what is really luxury. Bear in mind we have no boat, bikes, generator, BBQ or washing machine which are common accessories for others. We are also very conscious of the Landcruiser’s payload. Since the loss of Boo, we haven’t filled her space with anything else (as tempting as that is), so we aren’t just moving the problem from one area to another. A lucky camper near us scored our Oztent bi-fold table (7.5kg) and 55L tub (3.5kg) and we donated 13kg of toys, books, clothes and shoes. We will be looking to purchase a CGear annexe floor (7.5kg) which weighs half our current Jayco annexe floor (15kg), eat down our food stores and not replace as much as possible.

I hope the attachment is viewable!! This is a current list of items on board...
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Offline whitey001

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Re: Weights and Payloads
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2016, 02:26:28 PM »
This was part of the reason we are picking up our new car tomorrow.  Granted, we are not travelling like you guys are and when we purchased the car 2 years ago it was to tow a 6x4 box trailer with the tent, tables, bikes, etc. etc. of which is was more than capable.  Since we upgraded to a camper trailer (1050kg loaded, 105 ball weight) and with 2 boys that are growing up (8 & 10) we have found we have a maximum of 102kg payload in the car after allowing for fuel, 4 people, ball weight.  Throw in the fridge, power pack and esky and it doesn't leave much before we would be on the limit.  We would still be legal but I'd prefer a bit of a margin.

Knowing what I know now from researching all sorts of campers, caravans and vehicles it's pretty obvious there are plenty of combinations on the road that shouldn't be there.  Only a matter of time before something goes wrong.  Quite a few wouldn't even know what the ball weight is and what/if they are on their limit looking at how much the rear suspension sinks.

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Offline Jackdawg

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Re: Weights and Payloads
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2016, 02:31:26 PM »
Single axle likely you cant upgrade over 1500kg anyway.

Not sure about load on braked trailers, but unbraked trailers it is the maximum weight on the axle that is specified, not the entire weight of the trailer. EG, the download on the ball does not count. So if you have 750kg on the axle, and 80kg on the ball, it is still legal event though total trailer weight is 830kg.

Offline lilstookie

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Re: Weights and Payloads
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2016, 03:09:50 PM »
From a warranty point of view (and I wouldn't be surprised if insurance would do the same) they were interested in our ATM, unhitched. They said they'd replaced the leaf springs as a good will gesture even though we were 14KG over. The Retail Manager specifically stated they aren't interested in the towball weight.
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Offline Brij

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Re: Weights and Payloads
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2016, 08:20:09 PM »
A great post to help raise peoples awareness of weight issues.

I have had quite a lot to do with vehicle weights having been a heavy vehicle enforcement officer for nearly 10 years.

Personaly I wouldn't be to worried about your trailer being 1% overweight. Even the 1500kg springs - I think you will be hard pressed to find a situation where they will fail that would of seen a different result if you were 14kg lighter.

Mind you, I think we would all prefer to have extra capacity up our sleeve in the interests of longetivity. Which it sounds like you tried to do.

I would be more concerned about weight distribution then total trailer weight. Within reason of course.

As for having the trailer weighed after an accident - I have been called on to weigh a few trucks after fatalities (and never found one overloaded), but never a light vehicle.  I have also asked a few insurance agents over the years as well and they just looked at me funny, admitting that they had never heard of such a thing happening.

Instead of chasing every 1/2kg of luggage I would look at maybe planning to build in a bit more reserve capacity into the trailer. I refer to physical capacity, not necessarily on paper capacity. The tyres should be fine (if they are 265/75r16 they are probably rated for 1400-1500kg each). Springs - probably the most in need of homework. What sort of suspension have you got at the moment? Axle, wheelbearings? Again not going to break due to a possible 1% overload, but might wear out quicker and need more maintenance.

Peter H
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Offline areyonga

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Re: Weights and Payloads
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2016, 09:52:21 PM »
This is the same reason I had my Goldstream Storm upgraded as it was build as they normally only come with 300kg payload and that is with empty water tanks and gas bottles.  I would expect most caravans and campers on the road would be overweight knowing what people put in them.  A few are being picked up by the traffic authorities every now and then, and the inspectors also know that a lot will be over weight due to the minimal payload on most.
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Offline achjimmy

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Re: Weights and Payloads
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2016, 06:51:35 AM »
A great post to help raise peoples awareness of weight issues.

I have had quite a lot to do with vehicle weights having been a heavy vehicle enforcement officer for nearly 10 years.

Personaly I wouldn't be to worried about your trailer being 1% overweight. Even the 1500kg springs - I think you will be hard pressed to find a situation where they will fail that would of seen a different result if you were 14kg lighter.

Mind you, I think we would all prefer to have extra capacity up our sleeve in the interests of longetivity. Which it sounds like you tried to do.

I would be more concerned about weight distribution then total trailer weight. Within reason of course.

As for having the trailer weighed after an accident - I have been called on to weigh a few trucks after fatalities (and never found one overloaded), but never a light vehicle.  I have also asked a few insurance agents over the years as well and they just looked at me funny, admitting that they had never heard of such a thing happening.

Instead of chasing every 1/2kg of luggage I would look at maybe planning to build in a bit more reserve capacity into the trailer. I refer to physical capacity, not necessarily on paper capacity. The tyres should be fine (if they are 265/75r16 they are probably rated for 1400-1500kg each). Springs - probably the most in need of homework. What sort of suspension have you got at the moment? Axle, wheelbearings? Again not going to break due to a possible 1% overload, but might wear out quicker and need more maintenance.

Peter H

Great post Peter. You make a good point I'd rather be balanced first than worry about a few kgs. I've weighed our van and experimented with ball weights. Got it replated and changed out my custom box to get to what I think are ideal numbers.
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Offline noel_w

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Re: Weights and Payloads
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2016, 01:21:51 PM »
Was looking at an All For Adventure episode on the weekend and wonder how those guys get away with the huge payloads they carry.
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Offline lilstookie

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Re: Weights and Payloads
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2016, 03:53:57 PM »
It's a difficult one to balance I'd say. The storage areas are set and not open like a softfloor. Most space is on fridgebox which we don't use for fridge as it would put us overweight.
Clothes are in a standard fitted box behind axle and pantry kitchen and water are also in front of axle. The only real weight behind axle is spare tyre and there is no real option or space to put anything rear of axle.


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Offline Elky

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Re: Weights and Payloads
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2016, 10:46:21 AM »
Nothing new with rigs being overloaded, been happening since most of us have been born, and can't recall any incidents directly related to overloading ( I am talking death caused by failure or insurance claims not mechanical breakages) sure there probably has been occasionally but we are not seeing any sort of epidemic that many are so worried about these days. Simple truth is if you want to travel remote then you will need to carry more, especially water and fuel, I highly doubt anyone will get in trouble for being a bit over gvm!

As always proper vehicle prep and a sensible approach to loading is no1, not worrying about the nanny state

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Offline KevL

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Re: Weights and Payloads
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2016, 11:09:53 AM »

From a warranty point of view (and I wouldn't be surprised if insurance would do the same) they were interested in our ATM, unhitched. They said they'd replaced the leaf springs as a good will gesture even though we were 14KG over. The Retail Manager specifically stated they aren't interested in the towball weight.

The retail manager needs a wake up.
14 kg on a near 1500kg trailer is less than the accuracy margin of the weighbridge.
The weighbridge would only be accurate to +\- 20kg at absolute best.


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Offline feisty

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Re: Weights and Payloads
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2016, 11:10:25 AM »
Great post.  Becoming a little conscious of this myself. Trying to remove things after every trip rather than add things.
Flexible thin solar panels will probably save you 15 to 20 kg btw.
Out of interest I am going to have the landcruiser  weighed in the next couple of weeks. Should be interesting.

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Offline weeds

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Re: Weights and Payloads
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2016, 04:52:35 PM »

The retail manager needs a wake up.
14 kg on a near 1500kg trailer is less than the accuracy margin of the weighbridge.
The weighbridge would only be accurate to +\- 20kg at absolute best.


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Agree.......most weigh bridges are at 20kg

Maybe they had a set up to the kg.......given the 14kg over.

Offline topcat

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Re: Weights and Payloads
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2016, 09:01:30 PM »
On Wednesday we were advised our trailer was overweight by 14kg, giving our new Cub Spacevan a net weight of 1464kg .....

We will be upgrading our suspension very soon to give more than 50kg leeway.

Good post and one which most swaggers would relate to. When you say "we were advised ..." - did you weigh the camper yourself or were you pulled over and had the weight checked for you  :D

What does upgrading the suspension entail. Do you go from 1450kgs ATM to what - an extra 65 kgs? ... to offset the 14 kgs over atm plus 50 kgs?

With your experience, what will you think is an acceptable load for a camper trailer - ATM less tare.
Thanks
TC
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Offline craigss21

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Re: Weights and Payloads
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2016, 09:35:24 PM »
Hi All,

Where do you go to get your trailer and car weighed? Also what is the cost?

Thanks
Craig

Offline achjimmy

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Re: Weights and Payloads
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2016, 11:20:39 PM »
I've used public weighbridge's but recently found the local tip will do it and can also supply a certificate.
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Offline weeds

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Re: Weights and Payloads
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2016, 05:12:37 PM »

Hi All,

Where do you go to get your trailer and car weighed? Also what is the cost?

Thanks
Craig

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Google public weigh bridges in your area.......some may charge a small fee.

Offline lilstookie

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Re: Weights and Payloads
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2016, 07:06:52 PM »

Good post and one which most swaggers would relate to. When you say "we were advised ..." - did you weigh the camper yourself or were you pulled over and had the weight checked for you  :D

What does upgrading the suspension entail. Do you go from 1450kgs ATM to what - an extra 65 kgs? ... to offset the 14 kgs over atm plus 50 kgs?

With your experience, what will you think is an acceptable load for a camper trailer - ATM less tare.
Thanks
TC
We where advised by cub campers after taking it back for suspension issues. They weighed and informed us it was 14kg overweight and a a contributing factor to the leaf springs flattening. The fact the hangers had been welded in the wrong spot and wheels touched arches. Since its been replaced it seems fine however we had been scared by the fact that 14kg can make or break a camper so have looked into different suspension.

After talking with engineering companies about the loads, ratings and such it would seem apparent that the company may have been shifting a bit of the blame to us to shadow their own inability to weld suspension in correct spot to start with. Since we live on the road and our load hadn't really changed we have had no dramas since so happy with the camper now and for the guys fixing it.


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Offline topcat

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Re: Weights and Payloads
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2016, 10:51:05 PM »
Thanks Lil - hope you continue to enjoy living on the road. Lots of envious people here, I'm sure.
Cheers
TC
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Offline #jonesy

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Re: Weights and Payloads
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2016, 06:58:09 AM »
Having a look at your item list you had 26 items. If they are all rounded up to the next .5 kg it would be around 200g on average of about "5kg" of nothing for the lot.

I'm not an engineers but, 14 kg should make no difference, otherwise they are saying these springs can adequately handle 1500 every day but not 1514kg.  Overloaded by <1%.  A bump could turn you 1500kg into a dynamic load much higher than that.

I have been looking at the Jayco swan etc and the 300kg payload is a worry. That includes water and gas 100kg gone. It also includes annex/awning, flies and any other extra fittings such as roof rack, solar, batteries. And that is before cutlery and crockery let alone food and clothes.
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