Caravan Rear cameras or mirrors

[cyberess]

I am getting a 20 foot Swift caravan, I am thinking of getting something like a  2.4GHz Wireless Reversing Camera, does anyone on this forum have try them with a caravan and how well they work?  Can it be a caravan towing mirror replacement or is that just wishful thinking?

 

[speewa158]

Go the camera . l have a Swan unit in the Pajero to help hook up .Works a treat & also picks up a lot of wireless cameras as you drive past them in buildings . l can pull up outside the backery 7 the screen lights up showing me the till contents 

[MrCruza]

AFAIK you still have to have mirrors.

[achjimmy]

AFAIK you still have to have mirrors.

Yep in NSW the law is something about being able to see your rear corners of the trailer. I have a saftey DAVE system and they are brilliant. But they don't replace good mirrors

[HEM19X]

Yep in NSW the law is something about being able to see your rear corners of the trailer. I have a saftey DAVE system and they are brilliant. But they don't replace good mirrors

It is also apparently illegal to have the camera set up as a "rear view", it should only turn on when the vehicle is in reverse...
 

[edz]

It seems to be open to a bit of interpretation .. If its being used as an aid to mirrors then " possibly yes "  no different than a nav aid ... But no if being used as a stand alone rear veiw .    http://www.blank-it.com/australian-distracted-driving-laws.aspx .. NSW #299 .... Section 2. sub section b and examples #4
Reckon if you ever got pulled up and you could prove it was being used as an aid to the existing suitable towing mirrors and mounted as per the requirements .... you should be ok .

[tk421]

A rear view camera alone isn't going to give you an adequate view down the side of the vehicle. If your mirrors can't show you what's there, you'll need them. You'd be stupid to drive without being able to monitor the sides of your caravan adequately.

It is also apparently illegal to have the camera set up as a "rear view", it should only turn on when the vehicle is in reverse...
 

Nope... Australian road rule 299 clearly states that you can use one if it is a drivers aid and securely mounted to the vehicle.

Cyberess is based in the NT so the NT road rules apply most of the time. NT road rules state you can use the rearview camera when driving as it is a drivers aid provided it meets the mounting criteria.   Similar provisions apply in all states
http://notes.nt.gov.au/dcm/legislat/legislat.nsf/linkreference/TRAFFIC%20REGULATIONS?opendocument
42 Television receivers and visual display units

   (1) A television receiver or visual display unit must not be installed in a vehicle so any part of the image on the screen is visible to the driver from the normal driving position.

   (2) However, subrule (1) does not apply to:

   (a) a television receiver or visual display unit that cannot be operated when the vehicle is moving; or

   (b) a driver’s aid in any vehicle or a destination sign in a bus.
Examples of driver’s aids
1. Closed-circuit television security cameras.
2. Dispatch systems.
3. Navigational or intelligent highway and vehicle system equipment.
4. Rearview screens.
5. Ticket-issuing machines.
6. Vehicle monitoring devices.
   (3) A television receiver, or visual display unit, and its associated equipment in a vehicle must be securely mounted in a position that:
   (a) does not obscure the driver’s view of the road; and
   (b) does not impede the movement of a person in the vehicle


NSW legislation: http://www5.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rr2014104/s299.html
SA Legislation: http://www5.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/sa/consol_reg/arr210/s299.html
QLD legislation: https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/legisltn/current/t/trantoprurr09.pdf
VIC legislation: http://www5.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_reg/rsrr2009208/s299.html
ACT Legislation http://www.legislation.act.gov.au/ni/db_37271/current/pdf/db_37271.pdf

[alnjan]

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nt/consol_reg/avsr324/s42.html

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nt/num_reg/tarrr201156o2011522/s299.html

From the Regulations, was trying to find if not only being allowed to have the rear view monitor, but the useage of the camera, ie full time or only while reversing.  The only reference to the time the monitor would display any image would as per the bold section below, as per the manufacturer's specifications.  So if the manufacture okayed the unit to be displayed full time then you could have a constant rear view display, however if the manufacturer only specified the unit to display while in reverse, that is the only time you would have a rear display.  If you somehow altered the unit to display all the time instead of only in reverse you would be in the poo poo.   If that makes sense. 

Along with the reverse camera I would still be having tow mirrors as well.  The camera would only pick up things behind you while the mirrors will help pick up the blind spots beside you. 

TRAFFIC AMENDMENT (AUSTRALIAN ROAD RULES) REGULATIONS 2011 (NO 56 OF 2011) - REG 299

Television receivers and visual display units in motor vehicles
    (1)     A driver must not drive a motor vehicle that has a television receiver or visual display unit in or on the vehicle operating while the vehicle is moving, or is stationary but not parked, if any part of the image on the screen:

(a)     is visible to the driver from the normal driving position; or

(b)     is likely to distract another driver.

Offence provision.

Note

Motor vehicle and park is defined in the dictionary, and vehicle is defined in rule 15.

    (2)     This rule does not apply to the driver if:

(a)     the driver is driving a bus and the visual display unit is, or displays, a destination sign or other bus sign; or

(b)     the vehicle is not a motor bike and the visual display unit is, or is part of, a driver's aid and either –

(i)     is an integrated part of the vehicle design; or

(ii)     is secured in a mounting affixed to the vehicle while being used; or

(ba)     the visual display unit is a mobile data terminal fitted to a police vehicle or an emergency vehicle; or

Note

Police vehicle and emergency vehicle are defined in the dictionary.

(c)     the driver or vehicle is exempt from this rule under another law of this jurisdiction.

    (3)     For the purposes of subrule (2)(b)(ii), a visual display unit is secured in a mounting affixed to the vehicle if, and only if:

(a)     the mounting is commercially designed and manufactured for that purpose; and

(b)     the unit is secured in the mounting, and the mounting is affixed to the vehicle, in the manner intended by the manufacturer.

Examples of driver's aids

1     Closed-circuit television security cameras.

2     Dispatch systems.

3     Navigational or intelligent highway and vehicle system equipment.

4     Rearview screens.

5     Ticket-issuing machines.

6     Vehicle monitoring devices.

Note

Bus is defined in the dictionary.

[Darcy7]

I would go with both mirrors and camera.  No matter what you think the law is, you don't want to get pulled up by the cops and booked for not having mirrors. 

As far as cameras are concerned:

I tried the wireless option.  Was more trouble than it was worth with the constant interference. Would happen at the most inopportune times.

I also tried to make my own hard wired system but finding connections that didn't rust or foul up with dirt was a problem.  Cheap eBay stuff what also pretty useless in the long run.

Ended up going with a Safety Dave hard wired system.  Worth every cent.  Great quality kit and unbelievable after sales service.  Read more about it here: http://rveethereyet.com/4wd-accessories-2/safety-dave-rear-view-camera-system/

Something to think about though.  I had considered getting a peer-to-peer wifi camera and using a smartphone as the monitor.  They have very good range and less prone to interference.  Never went through with it in the end as the missus insisted on a full system from Safety Dave.

cheers

Darcy

[tk421]

From the Regulations, was trying to find if not only being allowed to have the rear view monitor, but the useage of the camera, ie full time or only while reversing.  The only reference to the time the monitor would display any image would as per the bold section below, as per the manufacturer's specifications.  So if the manufacture okayed the unit to be displayed full time then you could have a constant rear view display, however if the manufacturer only specified the unit to display while in reverse, that is the only time you would have a rear display.  If you somehow altered the unit to display all the time instead of only in reverse you would be in the poo poo.   If that makes sense.

I'm not a lawyer and this does not constitute legal advice but the legislation appears very clear on this point IMO. 

A Rearview camera is specifically cited as an example of a drivers aid in the rule. Part 2 of the rule exempts drivers aids. Therefore it is exempt from 299 (1) which limits the use of a VDU to stationary parked vehicles, as long as it is in a commercially manufactured mount used in accordance with the manufacturers specs. Some state legislation adds further requirements that it doesn't block the view of the road which is where you may come undone.

299 (1) states you can't use any VDU whilst operating the vehicle :
(1)     A driver must not drive a motor vehicle that has a television receiver or visual display unit in or on the vehicle operating while the vehicle is moving, or is stationary but not parked, if any part of the image on the screen:
(a)     is visible to the driver from the normal driving position; or
(b)     is likely to distract another driver.


299 (2) says Part (1) does not apply under certain circumstances:
   (2)     This rule does not apply to the driver if:


(2)b) defines some of those circumstances:

(b)     the vehicle is not a motor bike and the visual display unit is, or is part of, a driver's aid and either –
(i)     is an integrated part of the vehicle design; or 
(ii)     is secured in a mounting affixed to the vehicle while being used; or. 

The rule give examples of drivers aids as:
1     Closed-circuit television security cameras.
2     Dispatch systems.
3     Navigational or intelligent highway and vehicle system equipment.
4     Rearview screens.
5     Ticket-issuing machines.
6     Vehicle monitoring devices.

[99disco]

Legal babel aside we tow a 23 footer and I started with just a reverse camera and it was good but I've since added a pair of clear view mirrors to the patrol and the difference is amazing, much better visibility both driving and reversing. So yes mirrors are the go for sure.

[#jonesy]

You are all trying to overcompliate it

Go out to your car and sit in it. It should have 3 mirrors, A rear view and 2 sides (with some exceptions)Have a look in the rear view. Then have a look in both side mirrors and see how much more there is to see that isn't in the rear view (and vice versa).
The camera will only replace the rear view image. Mirrors are still needed to see down the side of the caravan, which may need mirror extensions.

[cyberess]

Amazing feedback from you all 

Since I am picking the caravan up next week, I just purchased a set of Milenco Aero Towing Mirrors.

What sold the mirrors to me was the Milenco video,

! No longer available	Small | Large

And when I checked out the mirror a BTC, they had all the spare parts on hand for the Milenco product

As I have had cheapie mirrors before that were crap, the first thing I did was tested the Milenco mirrors, on the way home, no caravan, just testing for vibration and see if the mirror was going to fold back at 110k and just how easy they would be to fit.   So far so good, the real test will be next week.

About the rear camera idea I will need to sus out a fitter or while in Brisbane, and I already have a monitor built into my rear mirror with I already use for my vehicle so I am open to ideas while I am in Brisbane.

 

[krisandkev]

We have the Milenco Aero Towing Mirrors and a rear camera.  The mirrors do shake a little bit you get use to it.  Love the camera, very good for keeping an eye on following traffic and when reversing the van. Personally I would not be without the camera. (Amazing how cars will get so close, no matter what speed you are doing, that you can not see them in any mirrors, but can see them in the camera.) But even though we have a reversing camera in the 4by and the van we are still very mindful if there are kids about.  Still safer to have someone at the back watching.    The camera in the van was fitted by the builder during construction and I had a local business set the 4by up for the screen.  Some have a switch some don't, I went with a switch in case I wanted to turn the camera off while the van is hocked up.  Have not had the need to yet so maybe that was a waste?  Kevin

[BaseCamp]

Mine is hard wired; uses a toggle switch on the dash to chop between the 4by and van vision

Shake&Bake BB