Author Topic: Mystery of metal (Read 5670 times)

RJD · « **on:** November 22, 2015, 06:59:17 PM »

Hi all.

If you were the same as me and thought that welding metals required a number of degrees in the dark arts think again. I recently acquired a 100amp gasless mig welder and have been having a play and have surprised myself. I realise that what I have done will not withstand official testing but I hit the steel as hard as I could with a hammer, bending the steel, and not the weld so something worked along the way.

I did try a very cheap low amperage stick welder nearly 20 years ago and the results were laughable which has put me off this dark and mystical ability. I think being a mig and the new instant helmets make all the difference. I did try a bead with the old style helmet and the difference was amazingly bad compared to the new style helmets that darken instantly when a flash is made. I am only going to make up a few gates to start but anyone else that has been contemplating welding give it a go and I think you will surprise yourself. These small units do have a very small run time, 20% duty cycle, but with what I am doing it is more than adequate and they run off a 10amp plug. Cheers.

grafy82 · « **Reply #1 on:** November 22, 2015, 07:16:06 PM »

Great work and good on you for having a go, that's what it's all about. I will say, however, I think it's a really good idea to learn on a stick welder first. Reason being; if you lay down a crap weld with a stick welder, you will know about it. It will look crap with slag inclusion, holes, etc. and you know you have to fix it up and do better. With a mig you can lay down a weld that may look OK on the surface, but be crap and very weak below.
I also love the portability of the little inverter stick welders. I have a small 80amp one which I can literally pick up leads and all with one hand and I can run it off my genie at full amps, laying down a solid weld into 3 or 4mm steel. That's adequate to fix up most car and trailer bits if you're stuck out the back of nowhere.
That being said, I love my mig for long vertical welds and it is heaps easier than the stick in that regard.

Keep up the good work

xcvator · « **Reply #2 on:** November 22, 2015, 07:17:06 PM »

It's a black art all right, I know, I've got black holes through my sneakers and socks, and that hurt. I had nearly black arms coz I forgot to roll my sleeves down, and that hurt. I had really big black holes in a nearly new jumper from using the angle grinder the wrong way around, that didn't hurt, but the smack in the ear I got from swmbo did. I got big black holes in some leather gloves when I picked up a bit of red hot steel ( the slag was covering the weld so I forgot which bit was hot ) and that hurt.
Yep it's a dark art all right, ferkin less painful to pay somebody else to hurt themselves

grafy82 · « **Reply #3 on:** November 22, 2015, 07:20:54 PM »

Quote from: xcvator on November 22, 2015, 07:17:06 PM

It's a black art all right, I know, I've got black holes through my sneakers and socks, and that hurt. I had nearly black arms coz I forgot to roll my sleeves down, and that hurt. I had really big black holes in a nearly new jumper from using the angle grinder the wrong way around, that didn't hurt, but the smack in the ear I got from swmbo did. I got big black holes in some leather gloves when I picked up a bit of red hot steel ( the slag was covering the weld so I forgot which bit was hot ) and that hurt.
Yep it's a dark art all right, ferkin less painful to pay somebody else to hurt themselves

What's all this 'hurt' nonsense. Pain is weakness leaving your body

RJD · « **Reply #4 on:** November 22, 2015, 08:01:13 PM »

Hi Grafy82,

I'm sure that your correct in saying that learning on stick welder is right. I think that the new inverter ones would be easier to learn on than the old cheap 80-90 amp non inverted ones. My first attempt, all this years a go, left more hole and slag than steel and was the subject of great mirth and merriment from my brother that could lay a decent weld from his electrical apprenticeship.

My decision to go straight to a mig was out of needing to weld thin metals and SWMBO wants to create some sculptures around the place and will only be out of 1.5 to 2 mill thick so the stick welder would only create some lovely holes and generate derision for ruining said art works.

I tried to merge a 3-4mm gap in 3 mm steel and it had the power to blow a hole in that so its rated capacity of up to 5mm steel might be justified. At the end of the day I'm as happy as a pig in the proverbial to be starting on this journey and I may end up with a stick welder yet.

Cheers

grafy82 · « **Reply #5 on:** November 22, 2015, 08:09:10 PM »

Agreed mate, mig is definitely better for the thin stuff too. If what you have does what you're asking it to and you're having fun along the way, you're laughing.

chillipepperz · « **Reply #6 on:** November 22, 2015, 08:48:00 PM »

Good post, and I agree with giving it a go. The real skill comes from not just sticking bits of metal together, but mastering the art of controlling distortion. Your gate project should throw up a few challenges, not in the strength of your welds but how square and flat your frames end up.

Cheers!
Andrew

RJD · « **Reply #7 on:** November 22, 2015, 09:38:38 PM »

Hi Chillipepperz,

Because don't know 3/5 of mcstuffall on most things I tend to stalk all things on youtube.

yes there is some rubbish but omg there is some wisdom that saves some grief. totally off topic we acquired a beehive and through youtube we found how to rob it effectively.

Very similiarly with the welding it gave some great tips for beginners that included ensuring tacking corners equally to minimise metal distortion. As a total nube I would'nt have given it a thought but after hours of watching welding vids it showed how to reduce the problem by placing diagonal tack welds and even giving the opposite tack a hit with a hammer to seat it properly.

I can't believe how much the metal distorts so it is a great comment to try and ensure that it is reduced.

Cheers.

terravista · « **Reply #8 on:** November 22, 2015, 10:07:22 PM »

Quote from: RJD on November 22, 2015, 06:59:17 PM

Hi all.

If you were the same as me and thought that welding metals required a number of degrees in the dark arts think again. I recently acquired a 100amp gasless mig welder and have been having a play

Any hints on the brand, model and price?
I also want to play but after visits to tool shops and hardware places all I ended up with was bleeding ears from all the promises of how good the machines are.
Cheers

RJD · « **Reply #9 on:** November 22, 2015, 10:29:19 PM »

Hi Terravista,

I purchased a Weldcorp mig 100 gasless mig welder.

There are a number of similiar units on the market, this one was for sale at bunnings. The consummables, wire, tips and covers are redily available and it has a online help page.

The unit was <$350 and came with a small amount of flux cored test wire, combination wire brush and hammer and hand held eye shield. Get yourself an auto helmet.

Not knowing any other brand or unit I could not fault this one. I got about 15 minutes of constant welding before the thermal overload kicked in and i was idle for about 30-40minutes before I tried again and it was fine.
If you want to weld continuously this is not the welder for you but for steel .02 - .05 and only occaisional use I cant fault it and highly recomend it. Remember that this is gasless and can be used in the outdoors without the troubles of a shielding gas.

Team Evil · « **Reply #10 on:** November 23, 2015, 05:41:45 AM »

Hi RJD

If the missus wants these artworks , is she going to learn to weld too ?

Diesel Power · « **Reply #11 on:** November 23, 2015, 06:14:40 AM »

It's easier to practice on bare or blue steel. The Galv RHS that your welding is a pain in the butt due to the galv. If you need to weld galv for gates etc, grind the Galv back to bare metal.
Regards

achjimmy · « **Reply #12 on:** November 23, 2015, 06:32:55 AM »

Quote from: RJD on November 22, 2015, 10:29:19 PM

Hi Terravista,

I purchased a Weldcorp mig 100 gasless mig welder.

There are a number of similiar units on the market, this one was for sale at bunnings. The consummables, wire, tips and covers are redily available and it has a online help page.

The unit was <$350 and came with a small amount of flux cored test wire, combination wire brush and hammer and hand held eye shield. Get yourself an auto helmet.

Not knowing any other brand or unit I could not fault this one. I got about 15 minutes of constant welding before the thermal overload kicked in and i was idle for about 30-40minutes before I tried again and it was fine.
If you want to weld continuously this is not the welder for you but for steel .02 - .05 and only occaisional use I cant fault it and highly recomend it. Remember that this is gasless and can be used in the outdoors without the troubles of a shielding gas.

Very few if any welder so today have a 100% duty cycle if think many would be lucky to have better than 20% TBH

tk421 · « **Reply #13 on:** November 23, 2015, 06:56:25 AM »

Thanks for sharing. Been wanting to learn for a while but haven't been brave enough. Posts like this give me a bit more courage to give it a go. I'm in the early stages of planning a trip from NSW to Broome and back via Oodnadatta track, Tanami, & GCR so I'd like to have this skill up my sleeve just in case.

Might have to enrol in the school of YouTube

Troopy_03 · « **Reply #14 on:** November 23, 2015, 03:07:24 PM »

Quote from: Diesel Power on November 23, 2015, 06:14:40 AM

It's easier to practice on bare or blue steel. The Galv RHS that your welding is a pain in the butt due to the galv. If you need to weld galv for gates etc, grind the Galv back to bare metal.
Regards

I Totally agree with statement.

RJD · « **Reply #15 on:** November 23, 2015, 03:46:56 PM »

Thanks for the heads up about welding on gal diesel power and troops 03 and yes team evil Tam is keen as a bean to have a Go and be involved with the whole process.

me217 · « **Reply #16 on:** November 23, 2015, 07:34:51 PM »

if your welder has gas option. head to a homebrew shop and buy yourself a 4kg co2 bottle and run it on that. thats what i do with mine. cost $45 to fill and still waiting for it to run out. and it allows me to buy the gas wire which is about 1/4 of the price of gasless

Diesel Power · « **Reply #17 on:** November 23, 2015, 09:08:43 PM »

Some of the tool supply places are now doing a " Swap n go" exchange sytem for Argon, Argo sheild, oxy and Acetylene.
Our local supplier is Total Tools, but this maybe no good to you as we dont know where you live.
Regards
Angus.

RJD · « **Reply #18 on:** November 23, 2015, 09:48:13 PM »

Thanks me217 and diesel power for the info but it is a gasless only which would be why it was so cheap, and I have edited my profile so everyone can see where I am

Russell

Aaron Schubert · « **Reply #19 on:** November 25, 2015, 07:59:28 AM »

Good work for giving it a crack. Yep, galv is a pain to weld, and will splatter everywhere.

The most important part of welding is preparation - set it up nicely with clean steel, get comfortable and your welding will be 100% better!

Aaron

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Author Topic: Mystery of metal (Read 5670 times)