Earthmoving / digging questions

[briann532]

Hi all.

As usual I though the best place to get any info is myporn (sorry that's what my wife calls it....) Myswag.

Some of you know, We have farm which we are currently improving and building some "sheds" on.
We are also going to be building on an acreage lot in Sydney.

I have been getting prices for all the excavation I am going to need at both places.
Water tanks, septic tanks, pipes, conduits, driveways etc and it is getting very expensive.
I am considering buy an excavator, using it for a few  years and then selling it.

Some questions though (pleading ignorance here  )

Am I better off with a backhoe or an excavator?

Should I get a light (2-3 tonne) excavator that I can tow between the 2 places or should I go bigger and pay float costs?

Would a light machine do the job just taking longer or would it just laugh at me???

Any advice, help or recommendations taken?

I'm a tradie who uses and drives equipment regularly so operation is not a problem, but I've only ever done small jobs, nothing so big...

Also if anyone has any equipment for sale or knows anyone?

Cheers
Brian

[kizza1]

It all depends on the ground. sometimes a small digger will be useless. Best bet is to hire a little one for a weekend for about $300 and see how it goes. Backhoe is good if you need to move volume where you can't get a tipper in. With diggers 90% of the time bigger is better

[jetcrew]

My best mate owns earthworks business in redlands shire of Brisbane and the stuff he does with 1.5/2.0/3.0T excavators is amazing.

if it were me I would go for about a 2T machine and if you need heavy stuff done for a day then dry hire or pay someone with a 15T machine to come for a day.

2T can be trailer around and cheaper on parts etc ..big machine = big dollars just for personal use IMHO.

Jet

[scarpsD40]

If it's any consolation, B&B's better half calls it myhag.......hishag

[rags]

Brian although excavators are good at what they can do, the problem is what size do you get. A small machine around 2ton would only be suitable for small trench work, a larger machine around 4ton is the preferred size for drainage trenching and digging a septic hole but for a large 160klt water tank hole or house site cutting you are starting to get into the 12-18 ton machine, particularly if the ground gets hard or rocky that can be found in the Hawkesbury area.
You could pay someone to do the larger stuff and you use a smaller machine yourself for the other tasks.
My suggestion is a backhoe, not used that common on small sites but still used on large commercial projects. They are versatile with a 4in 1 bucket for moving sand gravel firewood etc so doing a role of a bobcat and quicker than an excavator, with an extendable hoe arm they can did deep and with the right machine equal to around a 8 ton excavator, a 4wd version even better. They are a great machine and dependant on age/condition can  e picked up for a reasonable price.
A good example here ,    http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/sutton/heavy-farming-agriculture-equipment/fermec-760-backhoe/1093273431

[dales133]

I did my licences driving this sort of equipment earlier this year and whilst i dont have a great deal of experience yet id second the motion on the backhoe for private use.
Very versitile machines.
There are alot of things other machines do better but a decent loader/ backhoe is far more versatile then an excavator if you had to chose 1

[cruiser 91]

I'd be finding out what is beneath the soil prior to buying anything. Seen too many times where a D9 is needed to rip and/or huge excavators needed to pull out huge rocks.

[Rodt]

Mate Backhoes are the go. The amount of versatility with a front 4 in 1 bucket, forks and the fact that you can use the front and back to sling loads off and move around is also an advantage.

Rod

[Clouty]

I'm another one for a backhoe you can do so much more then just having 3 tonne digger..
If you can find a backhoe with a extension dipper arm which can stretch out to about 6-7  metres.. That'll help with digging any deep water tank excavations..

[briann532]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Helpful as always. 

Looks like I may be in the market for a backhoe.

I had a pool dug a couple of years ago and it was 6K cash.
I need to do a pool. 3 x shed sites, drainage, 2 x septics one with soak away trenches the other with underground irrigation, 6 tanks, power, irrigation lines, drainage, driveways, and general landscaping, so you can see why I would like to try save a bit of money..........

I'm hoping too that I can sell it in a few years for minimal loss when I'm finished.

Once again, thank you all for your replies.
I feel confident about the decision now.

Brian

[Moya]

I would go the backhoe too as with what you have described there will be alot of moving material around the sites eg excess dirt, gravel, sand and even moving the tanks and septics around will save you time and money with the backhoe..  its the best allrounder

[Jackdawg]

article about how cheap mining construction equipment is going at the moment on the abc news site, story gave an example of a 30 tonner that cost over a million a few years ago going for $50k at auction. Dont know if drought is biting as hard down your way, but a lot of farm machinery going cheap here to - but maybe checking out a few machinery auctions might be worth while before making a decision.

[plusnq]

article about how cheap mining construction equipment is going at the moment on the abc news site, story gave an example of a 30 tonner that cost over a million a few years ago going for $50k at auction. Dont know if drought is biting as hard down your way, but a lot of farm machinery going cheap here to - but maybe checking out a few machinery auctions might be worth while before making a decision.

Good advice

[Beachman]

About 10 years ago one of my mates bought an acreage block and he decided to find an old backhoe to push over trees and clear the block and move the timber to a huge pile so it could be burnt, dig out the house pad, dig all the drainage, dig footings for all the retaining walls, prepare the driveway and then landscape the whole yard.

He then decided he needed a huge shed so he then prepared that. He then attached a long bar to the bucket to lift the roof beams 5m up so he could bolt them together.

Even now it’s used occasionally to pull start his truck on the rare occasion he’s gotten a flat battery.

Mates hire him for small jobs and they get it moved by tow truck.

We spoke about it last year and he said even if he sold it now he would be close to getting his money back, so basically 10 years of free use.

[Bird]

Wheres xcavator on this... LOL!

[Goose]

article about how cheap mining construction equipment is going at the moment on the abc news site, story gave an example of a 30 tonner that cost over a million a few years ago going for $50k at auction. Dont know if drought is biting as hard down your way, but a lot of farm machinery going cheap here to - but maybe checking out a few machinery auctions might be worth while before making a decision.

I believe this is your article:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-28/heavy-machinery-prices-slashed-at-auction-mining-downturn-bites/6892966

A 1991 $2.9M front-end loader going for $15K... yikes....

EDIT - come to think of it some of that mining gear might be a bit big for a farm.

[rotor138]

I wouldn't buy any of that junk they are all so old and would have tens of thousands of hours on them. Most companies are getting rid of their rubbish as it is cost prohibitive to keep them.

Some of the council backhoes would be worth it though as they do bugger all work with them, most hours would be sitting there idling .

[6knights]

.I'm hoping too that I can sell it in a few years for minimal loss when I'm finished.

.
Brian

If you can afford it Brian look for something in reasonable condition to buy because after you get to realise the versatility of these type of machines you won't want to part with it especially with your acreage to use it  on

[briann532]

I have been looking at things like this.

http://www.constructionsales.com.au/buy/private/SSE-AD-3578389/2004-CASE-580SR?cr=11&category=backhoe-loader&psq=%28%28%28%28%28%28SiloType%3DDealer%20Used%7CSiloType%3DDealer%20New%29%7CSiloType%3DPrivate%20Used%29%7CSiloType%3DDealer%20Near%20New%29%26SaleStatus%3D%5BFor%20Sale%5D%29%26Category%3D%5BBackhoe%20Loader%5D%29%26Service%3D%5BConstructionsales%5D%29&pso=0&pss=Price

http://www.constructionsales.com.au/buy/private/SSE-AD-3626117/1995-JCB-3cx?cr=7&category=backhoe-loader&psq=%28%28%28%28%28%28SiloType%3DDealer%20Used%7CSiloType%3DDealer%20New%29%7CSiloType%3DPrivate%20Used%29%7CSiloType%3DDealer%20Near%20New%29%26SaleStatus%3D%5BFor%20Sale%5D%29%26Category%3D%5BBackhoe%20Loader%5D%29%26Service%3D%5BConstructionsales%5D%29&pso=0&pss=Price

http://www.constructionsales.com.au/buy/used/OAG-AD-11461943/2002-Kubota-TL421-Front-End-w-Backhoe-Attach?cr=3&category=backhoe-loader&psq=%28%28%28%28%28%28SiloType%3DDealer%20Used%7CSiloType%3DDealer%20New%29%7CSiloType%3DPrivate%20Used%29%7CSiloType%3DDealer%20Near%20New%29%26SaleStatus%3D%5BFor%20Sale%5D%29%26Category%3D%5BBackhoe%20Loader%5D%29%26Service%3D%5BConstructionsales%5D%29&pso=0&pss=Price

Obviously price is very relevant, but I do believe I should get most of my money back when done.
It certainly should save me some money anyway, but as long as it doesn't consume too much time..........

If finances permit, I would like to keep it for down on the farm, but we'll have to see.
A mate had a shed slab done recently and it cost him $1200. Nothing too hard or difficult and no dirt removal, just the benching and some trenching, then backfilling.

I have done a fair bit of work on smaller excavators, but never driven a backhoe, so it could be a steep leaning curve......

All I need now is a hell of a lot of time!!!!!!
I have a friend who has a farm up north and he has a grader / dozer and backhoe and he would never get rid of it. (Although his farm is up for sale now...)

Once again thanks for the insight. Helpful as always.
Now can I ruin this thread by saying..........

A mate had a drone down there a while back and I'd love to get one so I can photograph the progress from the air as we go.
Would make for a nice scrapbook to see the change.

[terravista]

If you duct tape an egg flip and teaspoon to the drone you can do all the work you need. The only drawback is time.
Earthworks is a balance between price, power, size, time and skills.
Hard ground and small machine equates closer to erosion than excavation, but if time does not matter, you will eventually get the job done.
Nice soft ground and a used $10000 Dingo style machine will do a lot over a longish time.
Big dollars and large machine will be far quicker.
Macdonalds Auctions at Sumner Park often have smallish plant at good prices but like most auctions you can't try them before buying except for a stationary run. I have seen half decent looking bobcats and mini excavstors go for $5kto $10k
We have a couple of acres (at low tide) backing the Logan River and have toyed with the idea of a small Kubota style combo backhoe, bucket and post hole digger unit but it is softish ground and shortly time won't be a problem. These can be sourced for $10k to $15k in half decent nick. Then sold after the work is done for the same price.
Cheers

[plusnq]

If you duct tape an egg flip and teaspoon to the drone you can do all the work you need. The only drawback is time.
Earthworks is a balance between price, power, size, time and skills.
Hard ground and small machine equates closer to erosion than excavation, but if time does not matter, you will eventually get the job done.
Nice soft ground and a used $10000 Dingo style machine will do a lot over a longish time.
Big dollars and large machine will be far quicker.
Macdonalds Auctions at Sumner Park often have smallish plant at good prices but like most auctions you can't try them before buying except for a stationary run. I have seen half decent looking bobcats and mini excavstors go for $5kto $10k
We have a couple of acres (at low tide) backing the Logan River and have toyed with the idea of a small Kubota style combo backhoe, bucket and post hole digger unit but it is softish ground and shortly time won't be a problem. These can be sourced for $10k to $15k in half decent nick. Then sold after the work is done for the same price.
Cheers

You just need a lot more drones then 

[Fizzie]

If you duct tape an egg flip and teaspoon to the drone you can do all the work you need. The only drawback is time.
Earthworks is a balance between price, power, size, time and skills.

Did you see the story a couple of years ago that some Canadian bloke excavated a basement under his house using radio-control excavators, trucks etc?

Here you go: http://singularityhub.com/2012/02/19/canadian-man-excavates-his-basement-using-rc-trucks-over-7-years/

2-3 cubic yards a year!

[briann532]

Did you see the story a couple of years ago that some Canadian bloke excavated a basement under his house using radio-control excavators, trucks etc?

Here you go: http://singularityhub.com/2012/02/19/canadian-man-excavates-his-basement-using-rc-trucks-over-7-years/

2-3 cubic yards a year!

Dedicated or just nuts???

[jwb]

Dedicated or just nuts???

Dedicated Nut!

[jr]

Neither is going to be much good at trenching for pipes, if its big enough to build pads and move some volumes of dirt around, will be too big for trenching.
Used backhoes are pretty sought after and command high prices, but kind of always finding uses for them.
Used excavators are not, firstly pretty cheap to buy even new, theres some very costly things like track motors and often electronics, rams etc. which wear out. look hard into renting, they are cheap and they drop them off
Biggest problem with tracked machines like excavators is moving them around, need trailer, heavy enough ute or truck. 8 tonne is a good small machine but need float or truck to move around