Author Topic: Work for the dole  (Read 45051 times)

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Offline fishfinder

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Work for the dole
« on: August 11, 2015, 06:59:59 AM »
I have just been told by my job search provider "I MUST WORK FOR THE DOLE"!! What I have to do is travel 150km / fortnight work 30 hours / fortnight in a vintage train yard ( heaps of future employment prospects in fixing thomas the tank ) for if I am lucky $60.00/ fortnight. My vehicle gets about 13 - 14 ltr / 100km fuel is about $1.48 / ltr, do the sums was I a fool removing my self off the system and now no longer get any support from government ? Just wondering if there is any one else out thee that is forced to do the same ?

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Offline HEM19X

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Re: Work for the dole
« Reply #1 on: August 11, 2015, 07:35:48 AM »
Mate,

Probably a typo but 150k per fortnight isn't much....... On a positive note, I have seen several WFD's gain part time & full time employment from this.

Regards

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Offline tk421

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Re: Work for the dole
« Reply #2 on: August 11, 2015, 07:55:22 AM »
At the risk of starting an argument, personally I think work for the dole schemes are mostly a crock of bull dust.  Several studies have shown they don't work or at least have no significant effect on back to work rates.

But what they do provide is politicians a platform to crow about how they are doing something, without actually doing anything. 
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Offline JusyApples

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Re: Work for the dole
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2015, 08:40:24 AM »
At the risk of starting an argument, personally I think work for the dole schemes are mostly a crock of bull dust.  Several studies have shown they don't work or at least have no significant effect on back to work rates.

But what they do provide is politicians a platform to crow about how they are doing something, without actually doing anything.

Personally I rather my taxes go to someone actually out there making some Use of themselves instead of sitting at home everyday. Whether it works or not at least people are being productive
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Offline edz

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Re: Work for the dole
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2015, 08:43:45 AM »
Dont know about the work for dole good or bad, but do know the dole office  found the brother a job once, which was kind of them. Only thing was the dole was roughly $50 a week more than the job paying .
So effectivly FF they are paying little more than the cost of your fuel round trip for one day and getting an extra days travel + 15 hours of  labour for FREE out of you per week out of your own families pocket ..
Geee how silly you are not to jump at that deal, cant you see all those lost opprtunities of gainfull employment you will lose by not doing this .. :D 

Dont feel isolated FF, a long time ago I spent 6 hours being shoved from one waiting line to another at the dole office after being made redundent only to be told I wasnt eligable to get the dole for 3 months. told them to jam it where the sun dont shine and 5 weeks later was working >>>>>> forwards 22 years and I'm still in that job ..
« Last Edit: August 11, 2015, 08:54:53 AM by edz »
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Offline fishfinder

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Re: Work for the dole
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2015, 08:45:43 AM »
I too agree it is a bs to majority of people. In close to now 12 months I have been un-employed due to company downsizing, I have actively searched for work the entire time ( approx 4-5 hrs / day searching ). I have also met all my appointments with centerlink and  the job search provider + dropping into the job search center twice a week, my choice, trying to find work. So far not once has the job search provider given me any lead for a job, not once !! I receive a letter in late May stating that I am appointed a new provider and that I will hear from them before 1st July. On 3rd July I phoned the Government department asking who my provider is, and where is the letter, they said just wait I will receive it soon. Early August I receive a letter stating my new service provider and appointment made for the 6th. Make the appointment only to find out that all the staff are the same plus a hand full more  ??? and an extra 30 + km travel. Was told there and then that I have to start work on the 10th, told to go shopping for work clothes come back with quote and they may give me an order number, subject to approval.

My disapproval to this is what has the job search provider done for me ????? this work for the dole thing is just an excuse to justify their position as I have not seen them actively do anything prior, well not for me. I did me sums wrong from the first post I receive on average $38.30 / fortnight and travel will cost me about $24.00, I don't know, but receiving approx $15.00 for 30 hrs work to me is exploitation, and not only that what job aspects will I get in tinkering around with steam trains ??? 
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Offline fishfinder

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Re: Work for the dole
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2015, 08:53:45 AM »
Personally I rather my taxes go to someone actually out there making some Use of themselves instead of sitting at home everyday. Whether it works or not at least people are being productive
It makes me wild being tared with the same brush as the minority of long term tax thieves, I have paid tax for 35+ years and prior to this stint I have not been un-employed for a total of 4 weeks in those 35 years, and as stated I actively search for work, but I see no future at all removing me from actively searching for 20+ hours / fortnight working with a bunch of retired volunteers playing with steam trains.
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Offline Bird

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Re: Work for the dole
« Reply #7 on: August 11, 2015, 08:55:14 AM »
Quote from: JusyApples
Personally I rather my taxes go to someone actually out there making some Use of themselves instead of sitting at home everyday. Whether it works or not at least people are being productive
What he said.

I've got mates that have played the system for 30+ years... never having worked a day in their lives that Centerlink know about.. many 1000's of days of cash work. Been sent on training courses, meetings, interviews, been kicked off and back on, theres been more episodes of today affair on people scamming the system than repeats of MASH, nothing will change.

Many people see it as a right to be paid for staying home smoking winny blues, smoking dope, drinking piss, and not having enough $ to pay rent/feed their 12 kids while they are still <25yrs old. Look at all the surfers up Byron Bay, look at 99% of the population of Nimbin and Tilba and surronds to name a few

Not saying the OP is any of these, he sounds like hes doing all he can 5-6 hours a day searching would be soul destroying for many people - specially with no leads.
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Re: Work for the dole
« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2015, 09:23:46 AM »
Think just about everyone here knows someone that has made a career out of social security but I do feel for you people genuinely struggling to find work. The job market is crap and has been for a long time. Must employers these days are looking for an 18 yr old with a uni degree and 10 yrs experience. I tend to think WFD is only giving someone cheap labour and not really helping the system at all. If someone wants to bleed the system they will. Regardless of what we do. All previous attempts to thwart them only hurts the genuine people in need. If someone that really wants a job and has to spend money to travel for their WFD job, it doesn't leave them anything left after paying rent/mortgage, bills, food etc, to get to a real job interview when it comes up. And if you live out of town, well then you're in even deeper do do.
 Good luck you guys in your search. I hope you all find work soon. I feel for ya man.

Offline tk421

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Re: Work for the dole
« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2015, 09:26:56 AM »
Personally I rather my taxes go to someone actually out there making some Use of themselves instead of sitting at home everyday. Whether it works or not at least people are being productive

I'd rather my tax dollars were spend on something that was effective and produced proven outcomes, rather than wasted on something that didn't work. A University of Melbourne study into the pilot phase of work for the dole found participants in the program were no more likely to move off welfare payments in the 12 months than a comparable group of payment recipients who did not participate in the program. But the government is happy to spend $1billion on it?

Work for the dole does not increase long term availability of jobs and doesn't provide skill development. How is FishFinder going to skill up to a meaningful job by fixing steam trains?

That same study found participation in work for the dole had " quite large significant adverse effects of participation” in the program. It suggested participation had a “chilling” effect on job search activity, allowing participants to reduce their efforts to find long-term work. The report also said participation in work for the dole was “found to have a significant negative effect on exit from payments, and to increase time on payments”. The same applies to many international studies - The majority of those studies find zero or negative effects on labour market outcomes for participants.

Again what's the point in throwing our tax money into a system that does sweet FA in helping people get off the dole, and in fact serves to keep them on payments longer?

Rather the government should be investing time and money into creating economic growth, and changing the focus on the program to targeting the needs of the local unemployed, and at the end of it get some kind of formal qualifications.

Fishfinder - I feel very sorry for you


What he said.

I've got mates that have played the system for 30+ years... never having worked a day in their lives that Centerlink know about.. many 1000's of days of cash work. Been sent on training courses, meetings, interviews, been kicked off and back on, theres been more episodes of today affair on people scamming the system than repeats of MASH, nothing will change.

Many people see it as a right to be paid for staying home smoking winny blues, smoking dope, drinking piss, and not having enough $ to pay rent/feed their 12 kids while they are still <25yrs old. Look at all the surfers up Byron Bay, look at 99% of the population of Nimbin and Tilba and surronds to name a few

Not saying the OP is any of these, he sounds like hes doing all he can 5-6 hours a day searching would be soul destroying for many people - specially with no leads.

Bird there are always scammers in any system, but the reality is they are a very small minority.  The figures for June have the longterm unemployed (out of work for more than 12months) as sitting at 1.5%, up from 0.6% in 2008. The number of people unemployed for two years or more reached 92,500 in May this year. That's the highest level in the 15 years of publishing data.  Those figures aren't just because its easy to get a gubbermint handout. The economy is tanking & I'd be very surprised if there isn't a recession in the next 2-3 years.  Australia has had 20 years of growth but I think the party is coming to an end.
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Offline Bird

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Re: Work for the dole
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2015, 09:39:34 AM »
Quote from: tk421
How is FishFinder going to skill up to a meaningful job by fixing steam trains?
that depends what skills he has and what he can improve or learn.
Having been involved in restoration of trains years ago at Thirlmere, there are numerous trades involved and learning anything to expand your chances to me is a good thing.. specially where he lives and the ever shrinking employment in that central coast region.
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Offline Troopy_03

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Re: Work for the dole
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2015, 10:21:12 AM »
Ha, personally I think it should be compulsory to work for the dole. But That's probably sour grapes on my part because in 45 years I have never been able to collect one cent from the bl@@dy dole. Even now I've been out of work for 10 months and don't qualify to receive any dole. And why? because during my working years in the RAAF I had to pay compulsory retirement fund payments and now I collect a measly pension I paid for myself, and for the rest of the time I saved and put some money into a couple of investment properties.. Even if I retire and am of pension age, I don't get any pension from the government. Got sucked it big time lol.
Moral of the story is, if you try to look after your later years financially, you get nothing from the government, but they try their darndest to take off you what you do have.
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Offline Paul (SA)

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Re: Work for the dole
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2015, 11:45:11 AM »
I believe there may be still rules about the cost of attending the WFD activity not being more than 10% of the fortnightly Newstart Allowance.

It is worthwhile asking questions about how the decision was made by the counter staff and seeking a review of the decision if you are not happy. The Social Security system is a massive, tangled and ugly beast - I actually feel for the staff on the front lines who have to navigate the system as well as complex legislation and try to arrive at a decision that has a lot of grey and not much black and white to it.

That is why it is worthwhile being polite and asking for a "Review of Decision", so someone can then sit down and have time to assess your circumstances properly and arrive at the correct decision.

PM me if you need any help FishFinder.

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Offline Robbo

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Re: Work for the dole
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2015, 11:54:36 AM »
Just get a job as a Politician and all your problems will be solved. They have an endless supply of our taxpayers money to play with and waste. Take Bronwyn Bishop for example, endless air flights to private functions with five star accomodation, all meals and helecopter rides thrown in. When you are done and retired you will also be given a massive anual income  and free air travel untill you die.
Having been a hard working taxpayer all your life will go against you as there's not enough money left in the pot after filling the troughing politicians slush fund and the never having worked leaches at the other end of the scale.
I say this in jest, but if you think about it then it's not far from the truth.  ;D ;D

By the way FF, good luck with your situation, i hope it all comes good for you very soon.

Offline Casualkev

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Re: Work for the dole
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2015, 04:18:01 PM »
Ha, personally I think it should be compulsory to work for the dole. But That's probably sour grapes on my part because in 45 years I have never been able to collect one cent from the bl@@dy dole. Even now I've been out of work for 10 months and don't qualify to receive any dole. And why? because during my working years in the RAAF I had to pay compulsory retirement fund payments and now I collect a measly pension I paid for myself, and for the rest of the time I saved and put some money into a couple of investment properties.. Even if I retire and am of pension age, I don't get any pension from the government. Got sucked it big time lol.
Moral of the story is, if you try to look after your later years financially, you get nothing from the government, but they try their darndest to take off you what you do have.

Troopy you should be proud that you have done well enough not to get the dole not disappointed that you don't get anything from the rorters! Keep your head up!

Offline Kangaron

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Re: Work for the dole
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2015, 04:37:52 PM »

Moral of the story is, if you try to look after your later years financially, you get nothing from the government you do have.

Time to see a good accountant and reverse that trend.

Offline BaseCamp

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Re: Work for the dole
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2015, 05:27:38 PM »
that depends what skills he has and what he can improve or learn.
Having been involved in restoration of trains years ago at Thirlmere, there are numerous trades involved and learning anything to expand your chances to me is a good thing.. specially where he lives and the ever shrinking employment in that central coast region.

The Thomas the tank idea is also about (potential) workers being forced to engage with the workforce..

Even if that's just in the context of a pack of work for dole recipients; and their workplace...

Remember nearly all vocations involve interacting with other people...    Many times its not so much about how much you know on the job - but its about how well you can be part of a team...   What can you contribute to that workplace in terms of commitment; brawn; skills; etc...

Are you interested in expanding your circle of influence?; ...(to quote Steven Covey)

I think the tax payers are looking at some sort of ROI for the billions paid for the dole....   In an ideal world if the need for dole payments weren't there - those billions could be directed into heritage preservation; better roads; more hospitals; more comprehensive military defense systems; etc; etc...

Sure; on one hand the dole may represent the bare minimum a society "has" to pay - to avoid "blood on the streets" and civil anarchy because the work-less are out on the streets; and are starving -  think Dickensian England: ... "please Sir; may I have some more"  ..(food - because I am starving)...   

But on the other hand - about two thirds of this wold lives without any; or a minimum of social security.....     In these cultures and societies in most cases - the family and the extended family/community thrives...

There is a big price to pay for sure - to have this (Western world's) idea of the "right of the individuals - and its independence..."   because there is little alternative..

Thomas the Tank is about interacting with some hopefully work-minded people...    Sometimes on many occasions the alternative is about inward focus naval gazing...

It would be a better world; don't you think; if the kind with idle time on their hands in the middle of the workweek were keen and eager volunteers...

There is so much unfulfilled need out there - from volunteers to spend time with the lonely in aged care facilities; to picking up trash from creek banks and beaches; etc; etc...   





 
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Offline Banjo16

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Re: Work for the dole
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2015, 05:35:22 PM »
After approx 30 years with a major bank I was retrenched at 50.
No job search provider did any good whatsoever , one even wanted to teach me how to write a letter but realised I could probably already do that.

Bottom line,I now drive a taxi & earn less then half I did in my previous life but without the stress.

I was recently asked by a regular customer to take him home & he would fix me up on "pay day",of course he has not worked a day in his life.
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Offline Hewy54

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Re: Work for the dole
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2015, 06:33:15 PM »
The Thomas the tank idea is also about (potential) workers being forced to engage with the workforce..

Even if that's just in the context of a pack of work for dole recipients; and their workplace...

Remember nearly all vocations involve interacting with other people...    Many times its not so much about how much you know on the job - but its about how well you can be part of a team...   What can you contribute to that workplace in terms of commitment; brawn; skills; etc...

Are you interested in expanding your circle of influence?; ...(to quote Steven Covey)

I think the tax payers are looking at some sort of ROI for the billions paid for the dole....   In an ideal world if the need for dole payments weren't there - those billions could be directed into heritage preservation; better roads; more hospitals; more comprehensive military defense systems; etc; etc...

Sure; on one hand the dole may represent the bare minimum a society "has" to pay - to avoid "blood on the streets" and civil anarchy because the work-less are out on the streets; and are starving -  think Dickensian England: ... "please Sir; may I have some more"  ..(food - because I am starving)...   

But on the other hand - about two thirds of this wold lives without any; or a minimum of social security.....     In these cultures and societies in most cases - the family and the extended family/community thrives...

There is a big price to pay for sure - to have this (Western world's) idea of the "right of the individuals - and its independence..."   because there is little alternative..

Thomas the Tank is about interacting with some hopefully work-minded people...    Sometimes on many occasions the alternative is about inward focus naval gazing...

It would be a better world; don't you think; if the kind with idle time on their hands in the middle of the workweek were keen and eager volunteers...

There is so much unfulfilled need out there - from volunteers to spend time with the lonely in aged care facilities; to picking up trash from creek banks and beaches; etc; etc...   
Very well put.

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Offline Pog

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Re: Work for the dole
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2015, 06:38:38 PM »
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Offline Bird

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Re: Work for the dole
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2015, 06:40:09 PM »
I'd like the Gov to release the "REAL" figures of how many full time / part time/ etc there are...

I believe that the Gov considers 1 hour a week as employed...
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Offline gronk

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Re: Work for the dole
« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2015, 07:33:04 PM »


I believe that the Gov considers 1 hour a week as employed...

Exactly.....and why they spend money on work for the dole......it reduces the unemployment rate ( artificially ) and makes them look good..

20 yrs ago, I did a similar thing to work for the dole, farmed out to the local council....worked my arse off for 5 mths, and got a casual position with them after the stint ran out....and by sheer coincidence left for greener pastures on the same day they offered me a permanent position. So, it can be beneficial if the job is a JOB, not weeding the side of the road for a company that gets subsidized by the govt to use free labour ...
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Offline dales133

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Re: Work for the dole
« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2015, 08:02:00 PM »
Exactly.....and why they spend money on work for the dole......it reduces the unemployment rate ( artificially ) and makes them look good..

20 yrs ago, I did a similar thing to work for the dole, farmed out to the local council....worked my arse off for 5 mths, and got a casual position with them after the stint ran out....and by sheer coincidence left for greener pastures on the same day they offered me a permanent position. So, it can be beneficial if the job is a JOB, not weeding the side of the road for a company that gets subsidized by the govt to use free labour ...
Exactly.
This systems been going on forever in one form or another in most socialist democracies Australia one of them.
If its done properly so its an Acutual Gateway into a REAL job its got to be good all round.
But politicians  being politicians  its more about bogus figures and point scoring.

Offline Troopy_03

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Re: Work for the dole
« Reply #23 on: August 11, 2015, 10:51:36 PM »
After approx 30 years with a major bank I was retrenched at 50.
No job search provider did any good whatsoever , one even wanted to teach me how to write a letter but realised I could probably already do that.

Bottom line,I now drive a taxi & earn less then half I did in my previous life but without the stress.

I was recently asked by a regular customer to take him home & he would fix me up on "pay day",of course he has not worked a day in his life.
And that gets up my nose more than anything else.. When they refer to getting "paid" it's not bl@@dy pay, you didn't earn it. you sat on ya bum and still got it.  >:(
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Re: Work for the dole
« Reply #24 on: August 11, 2015, 11:09:46 PM »
You think thats bad......     A dad of the rellies (Yamba) told his boy on his (I think) 16th birthday. ...   "com'on boy.... lets take ya down to the office  ( aka Centrelink)..... to get ya ya SITDOWN MONEY)".....    true story. ...

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