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Author Topic: Retrofit Electric/Hydraulic Brakes  (Read 10167 times)

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Offline Two Words

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Retrofit Electric/Hydraulic Brakes
« on: July 25, 2015, 12:49:16 AM »
Hi People,  pretty new at this...
I have a 09 KK Platinum which is growing heavier with age and I am fitting an electric/hydraulic actuator to the existing override discs.  Does anyone have a KK wiring diagram or a mudmap for the Hydraulic Lockup Park Brake ?.
I have all the gear to complete the retro-fit, a Redarc TowPro, Felk Trailers Hydraulic actuator and 40 Amp Button momentary switch and High Pressure ball valve, I have all the info for the job except the wiring for the park brake.  My trailer does not have or need a breakaway which would make wiring simple.
Thanks for helping
Two Words
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Offline weeds

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Retrofit Electric/Hydraulic Brakes
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2015, 06:49:08 AM »
Bully on here has done his.......

Re: Felk I brought s tow pro and couldn't get it to work with my felk, that was with a hi lux. It could have been something I did wrong, I re-wired it twice, took the brake feed from two different spots. Went back to P3.

Cheers
« Last Edit: July 25, 2015, 07:10:09 AM by weeds »
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bully

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Re: Retrofit Electric/Hydraulic Brakes
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2015, 07:55:49 AM »
Theres probably no wiring diagram for this. You just need to pull power from some where. I went off the anderson plug but my only issue is when I disconect from the car I can not run the pump. Not really a problem as I set everything up before I disconnect the KK.
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Offline weeds

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Retrofit Electric/Hydraulic Brakes
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2015, 09:36:31 AM »
My pump is powered from the batteries on the camper trailer.

Option 1 is to use the breakaway wire as your manual activation of the pump, you push button switch acts like a trailer break away. I am at the understanding this works.

Option 2 Run a separate wire from your trailer battery......this is what o did as I didn't think of option one until after the fact.

Either way you will lover electric over hydraulic. It amazes me it's not standard on caravans and high end campers.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2015, 10:52:53 AM by weeds »
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Offline Two Words

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Re: Retrofit Electric/Hydraulic Brakes
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2015, 04:13:44 PM »
Hi Weeds
Thank you for your advice.
Felk were unaware of the three axis accelerometer used in the recent versions of the tow pro, and I am assured by many that I will achieve the result I need with the latest version of the TowPro.
I think if I splice a lead into the actuator power supply to set the KK handbrake on before disconnect, I might need the "Handbrake"to press the foot brake to power up the actuator !!

Simply "Best Practice", in any case,  trailer park brakes ON before disconnect !!

Thanks Bully.
I think this is a version of your plan.............
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bully

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Re: Retrofit Electric/Hydraulic Brakes
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2015, 06:52:40 PM »
You can wire a switch in to activate the actuator and then turn the tap off to lock the brakes. That's the way the KK ones are
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Offline weeds

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Re: Retrofit Electric/Hydraulic Brakes
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2015, 07:53:28 PM »

Quote from: Two Words on July 25, 2015, 04:13:44 PM
I think if I splice a lead into the actuator power supply to set the KK handbrake on before disconnect, I might need the "Handbrake"to press the foot brake to power up the actuator !!



You won't need somebody to press the brake, that's what your button is for.

I have had some pressure leak off, by powering the actuator off the camper means you can hit the button just to make sure there is plenty of pressure.
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Offline weeds

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Retrofit Electric/Hydraulic Brakes
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2015, 07:54:18 PM »
Quote from: bully on July 25, 2015, 06:52:40 PM
You can wire a switch in to activate the actuator and then turn the tap off to lock the brakes. That's the way the KK ones are

Yeah what bully said, the push button is so that you can operate the actuator when standing at the trailer.
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Offline Cracka

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Re: Retrofit Electric/Hydraulic Brakes
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2015, 07:55:56 PM »
Two words,

I wired up my Felk actuator using the momentary press button and a line lock for the handbrake function on my Tvan.  As Weeds said, use the breakaway wire for the press button.  I also powered mine from the camper battery.

Weeds,

As you know I did my project after seeing yours on AULRO. I was using the P3 as my controller. I sold the Tvan not long ago and the guy who bought it is successfully using a Towpro with it so I don't understand why yours isn't.

Mick
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Offline weeds

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Re: Retrofit Electric/Hydraulic Brakes
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2015, 07:20:08 AM »

Quote from: Cracka on July 25, 2015, 07:55:56 PM
Two words,

I wired up my Felk actuator using the momentary press button and a line lock for the handbrake function on my Tvan.  As Weeds said, use the breakaway wire for the press button.  I also powered mine from the camper battery.

Weeds,

As you know I did my project after seeing yours on AULRO. I was using the P3 as my controller. I sold the Tvan not long ago and the guy who bought it is successfully using a Towpro with it so I don't understand why yours isn't.

Mick

Yeah got buggered.......I muck stains for a whole day trying to work out what was wrong. Just figured it would be straight forward.

Happy enough with my P3.
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Offline mike and tracy davis

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Re: Retrofit Electric/Hydraulic Brakes
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2015, 09:57:08 PM »
Tow-pro units are not directly compatible with electric over hydraulic units, in order for the Tow-pro to work with electric over hydraulic the unit must be first set in proportional mode and then calibrated with a magnetic actuated trailer, once this is done the unit should work fine with your electric over hydraulic system.
Tekonsha P-3 systems are far superior in this regard and have far more features than the Redarc unit IMO. I would only use the Redarc unit if there was some aesthetic or Airbag deployment issue.
Cheers Mike :cheers:
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Offline Two Words

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Re: Retrofit Electric/Hydraulic Brakes
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2015, 04:32:51 PM »
Hi Mike
Please be aware of information I have gained from the RedArc TowPro Manual.
The EBRH-ACC Tow Pro is a Inertia Sensing [proportional] trailer brake controller which is designed to operate both electric and electric/hydraulic braking systems.
I believe that there are many on this forum whom are satisfied with the performance of their electric and electric/hydraulic brake actuators operated by a TowPro.
I have a just a couple of hydraulic hoses to be made and I will then be able to give you a first hand version of it's performance.
My trailer weight does not require that I fit a breakaway system,  so I am installing a separate system to provide a wheel lock handbrake.
I will revert to you as soon as the trailer is operational.
Regards
Grant
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Offline weeds

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Retrofit Electric/Hydraulic Brakes
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2015, 04:46:16 PM »
Quote from: Two Words on July 28, 2015, 04:32:51 PM
Hi Mike
Please be aware of information I have gained from the RedArc TowPro Manual.
The EBRH-ACC Tow Pro is a Inertia Sensing [proportional] trailer brake controller which is designed to operate both electric and electric/hydraulic braking systems.
I believe that there are many on this forum whom are satisfied with the performance of their electric and electric/hydraulic brake actuators operated by a TowPro.
I have a just a couple of hydraulic hoses to be made and I will then be able to give you a first hand version of it's performance.
My trailer weight does not require that I fit a breakaway system,  so I am installing a separate system to provide a wheel lock handbrake.
I will revert to you as soon as the trailer is operational.
Regards
Grant

Looking forward to your feedback.......only cause I'm an electric over hydraulic fan

I brought my towpro based on the formation on the package.......didn't work for me but worked for Bully.
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bully

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Re: Retrofit Electric/Hydraulic Brakes
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2015, 05:28:24 PM »
Yes it worked for me but I don't have the Felk actuator. Mine is the Hydrastar unit. As much as they state they are the same they look different in apperence.
Will be interested to see if you can get your to work Two Words!!!!!!!!!
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Offline slydar

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Re: Retrofit Electric/Hydraulic Brakes
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2015, 06:21:49 PM »
Quote from: bully on July 28, 2015, 05:28:24 PM
Yes it worked for me but I don't have the Felk actuator. Mine is the Hydrastar unit. As much as they state they are the same they look different in apperence.
Will be interested to see if you can get your to work Two Words!!!!!!!!!

I for one would love to hear more about yr hydrastar...?
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Offline mike and tracy davis

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Re: Retrofit Electric/Hydraulic Brakes
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2015, 10:05:52 PM »
Check the Redarc site under technical information, in plain English. The unit needs to be calibrated with a magnetic electric brake trailer or it will not recognise the electric over hydraulic actuator either Hydra-star or Felk!
The red-arc unit does not have boost level adjustment to increase the initial brake effort, does not have the ability to program different trailer configuration or load levels and select at a press of a button, it does not have visual digital diagnostics for voltage and current or programmed output level, it does not have a built in volt meter, it does not have a hold brake feature to allow the trailer combination to move from a hill start without rolling backward, it does not have what I stated as direct compatibility with electric over hydraulic brake systems.
The Redarc unit is still a great unit, terrific Australian innovation, smooth brake experience, definitely has its place for fitment in modern vehicles with air bag deployment issues, space fitment and aesthetics but it is not by any assessment the answer for every situation or the most feature packed electric brake unit and I pick my brake package on function over form.
Cheers Mike :cheers:
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Offline mike and tracy davis

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Re: Retrofit Electric/Hydraulic Brakes
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2015, 10:16:10 PM »
Check Redarc news dated 19/12/2014 Towpro Technical Bulletin:Electric/Hydraulic Brakes.

Should help you solve your issues.

Cheers Mike :cheers:
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Offline weeds

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Retrofit Electric/Hydraulic Brakes
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2015, 10:21:49 PM »
Quote from: mike and tracy davis on July 28, 2015, 10:05:52 PM
Check the Redarc site under technical information, in plain English. The unit needs to be calibrated with a magnetic electric brake trailer or it will not recognise the electric over hydraulic actuator either Hydra-star or Felk!
The red-arc unit does not have boost level adjustment to increase the initial brake effort, does not have the ability to program different trailer configuration or load levels and select at a press of a button, it does not have visual digital diagnostics for voltage and current or programmed output level, it does not have a built in volt meter, it does not have a hold brake feature to allow the trailer combination to move from a hill start without rolling backward, it does not have what I stated as direct compatibility with electric over hydraulic brake systems.
The Redarc unit is still a great unit, terrific Australian innovation, smooth brake experience, definitely has its place for fitment in modern vehicles with air bag deployment issues, space fitment and aesthetics but it is not by any assessment the answer for every situation or the most feature packed electric brake unit and I pick my brake package on function over form.
Cheers Mike :cheers:

I knew there was a reason I kept my P3, I should save your post for when the P3 v Towpro comparison raises it head.
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bully

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Re: Retrofit Electric/Hydraulic Brakes
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2015, 06:15:03 AM »
What is it you need to know about the hydrastar. It is what KK use and I got it for a good price at a dealer in Wynnum. I got the 1600 psi unit as it is what is needed for disk brakes. I will have to check my emails to get you the price and where I got it from but if you check their website if you need specifications.
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Offline weeds

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Retrofit Electric/Hydraulic Brakes
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2015, 06:55:48 AM »
Electric over hydraulic is the next evolution in trailers.........it's a slow take up, it like everything once the price comes down and it starts to be come a standard feature on hi-end vans everybody will want it.

Everybody will bash on about making the system more complicated........apart for replacing brake pads/clutch fluid you should never need to touch the system. Given the amount of km my camper travels I shouldn't need to look at it for 10 years. Don't need to adjust, zero noise, the wife can release the handbrake.

Remember, we started with the Model T ford, look at the evolution.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2015, 06:57:48 AM by weeds »
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Offline Two Words

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Re: Retrofit Electric/Hydraulic Brakes
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2015, 11:31:25 AM »
Gidday
I have a new "Felk" brake actuator,  and according to Redarc, on the Felk website is advertised as “The TF unit will work with all proportional/digital In-Cab Controllers…”
I also have a new Redarc TOW-PRO ERBH-ACC brake controller
I have been in contact with Redarc to try to get a assertion from them that the EBRH-ACC brake controller will operate as described with a "Felk"actuator.
All I have from them [Redarc] so far is a referral to the Felk website as detailed above, and according to them I may need to modify the wiring for the device to operate in "proportional"mode. I am not satisfied with that,  I need the device to operate seamlessly as described in the advertising.
All a bit "up in the air" at the moment
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Offline slydar

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Re: Retrofit Electric/Hydraulic Brakes
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2015, 06:48:22 PM »
Quote from: bully on July 29, 2015, 06:15:03 AM
What is it you need to know about the hydrastar. It is what KK use and I got it for a good price at a dealer in Wynnum. I got the 1600 psi unit as it is what is needed for disk brakes. I will have to check my emails to get you the price and where I got it from but if you check their website if you need specifications.


cheers for that - theres a place up near Sydney has them at the right price occasionally as well but haven't seen them advertise in a while now
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Offline weeds

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Re: Retrofit Electric/Hydraulic Brakes
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2015, 09:34:07 PM »

Quote from: Two Words on July 29, 2015, 11:31:25 AM
Gidday
I have a new "Felk" brake actuator,  and according to Redarc, on the Felk website is advertised as “The TF unit will work with all proportional/digital In-Cab Controllers…”
I also have a new Redarc TOW-PRO ERBH-ACC brake controller
I have been in contact with Redarc to try to get a assertion from them that the EBRH-ACC brake controller will operate as described with a "Felk"actuator.
All I have from them [Redarc] so far is a referral to the Felk website as detailed above, and according to them I may need to modify the wiring for the device to operate in "proportional"mode. I am not satisfied with that,  I need the device to operate seamlessly as described in the advertising.
All a bit "up in the air" at the moment

Are you sold on towprow?? P3 work just fine.
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Offline Lloyd65

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Re: Retrofit Electric/Hydraulic Brakes
« Reply #23 on: July 29, 2015, 10:35:14 PM »
Hi
The KK wiring diagram
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Offline Two Words

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Re: Retrofit Electric/Hydraulic Brakes
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2015, 10:51:26 PM »
Quote from: Lloyd65 on July 29, 2015, 10:35:14 PM
Hi
The KK wiring diagram


Gidday Lloyd65
That's what I needed !!  Have you got a photo of where the bits are on the drawbar ?
Thanx
Grant
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