Removing sliding door frame

[robbo1172]

Hey all. I've got all of the glass out and need to remove the frame of a sliding door to replace some weather affected timber. Any help appreciated. It seems like it should just slide out but after a few taps seems a bit stuck. Thanks in advance.

Robbo


Ps all visible screws are out.

[#jonesy]

Are you only trying to get only the bottom piece out?  It looks as if the whole would come out as one piece. Possibly a L shaped piece in each corner holding the frame square. This would only be accessible after you removed the whole frame

[dales133]

Hard to tell from the pic exactly but it looks like it was fitted from the inside.
If all fixings are out I'd get a block of wood and tap around the frame evenly until the seal brakes.
It's more than likely fitted with sikaflex or clear silicone, cut any visible sealant out first.

[tracker]

 G'Day Robbo,
                     I'm a glazier and from your pic's it appears you have a brick veneer house...which i fear the frame is fixed in to a timber opening before it has been bricked up to....meaning it's a big job to remove the aluminium door frame....feel free to ask anymore questions

                                                                         Cheers Tracker.

[robbo1172]

Thanks all. Tracker is on to it I think. Bricks went in after the frame, so mortar is the enemy here it would appear. I'm putting it back together as its getting late. I really need to replace that bottom timber as it is as warped as a my swaggers sense of humour.

Thanks again, probably more questions to follow.

Robbo.

[tracker]

 Just to add......The door frame is fixed through flanges on door frame with either clouts , nails or screws... so no amount of knocking with hammer / block of timber will move it. The removal of the door frame requires the brick work around the door frame to be removed to be able to remove the door frame..... I know this is not what you want to hear... But it is a bigger job than even i would attempt....but a carpenter should be able to do the job and i think you  would need a bricky to finish the out side also...


                       Tracker.

[Mrs smith]

There's a chance you can get the door out without redoing the brickwork by removing the ark and then using a saber saw or similar from the inside to cut the offending attachments,
then when you replace the frame add a few long screws threw the ally frame into the timber frame. Finish with a few of those plastic plugs that press into the head of the the screws.

[tracker]

There's a chance you can get the door out without redoing the brickwork by removing the ark and then using a saber saw or similar from the inside to cut the offending attachments,
then when you replace the frame add a few long screws threw the ally frame into the timber frame. Finish with a few of those plastic plugs that press into the head of the the screws.

        I agree to a certain extent Mrs. Smith......You can remove the arcs.  but you also need to remove the timber jambs and i think you will find it hard to use a sabre saw or other tool because the fixing flanges on the door frame because they  are completely attached to door frame and then when you might get door frame out you will need to replace arcs and timber jambs and give it all a repaint also....I'm afraid there is no easy fix......but that is only my opinion

[robbo1172]

Thanks mate. The timber looks ok but bowed up in the middle. I'm putting down new flooring next week so thought it would be a good idea to fix it before then. Too hard. I'll drill through the bottom timber and into the slab. Then I'll whack some screws in to pull the timber down and hopefully the bow out off it. Should achieve what I'm aiming for.

Thanks again.

[Crimso]

What you need to do is remove the architraves, get a recriprocating saw with a metal blade. The timber reveals will, more likely than not, be nailed through to the timber wall framing behind. Start at top, being careful with the saw blade, cut down until you strike no more nails. Repeat on the other side & then across the head. With a bit of luck the brickie won't have fixed any veneer ties to the door, they do sometimes. Then often the plastic flashing will cause grief too. You now have to basically bash the door out from the outside inwards, hopefully carpet & or tiles won't be a problem! If they are, you will probably have to destroy the aluminium frame.
I do this type of thing for a living (construction insurance repair work) and this is one of those jobs that are usually a real pain in the arse!

Why is the timber water damaged? Blocked weep holes, overflowing gutters, roof leak? If the cause isn't fixed, you'll have to do it again sometime, or sell up & leave it to some other sucker.?

[GGV8Cruza]

What you need to do is remove the architraves, get a recriprocating saw with a metal blade. The timber reveals will, more likely than not, be nailed through to the timber wall framing behind. Start at top, being careful with the saw blade, cut down until you strike no more nails. Repeat on the other side & then across the head. With a bit of luck the brickie won't have fixed any veneer ties to the door, they do sometimes. Then often the plastic flashing will cause grief too. You now have to basically bash the door out from the outside inwards, hopefully carpet & or tiles won't be a problem! If they are, you will probably have to destroy the aluminium frame.
I do this type of thing for a living (construction insurance repair work) and this is one of those jobs that are usually a real pain in the arse!

Why is the timber water damaged? Blocked weep holes, overflowing gutters, roof leak? If the cause isn't fixed, you'll have to do it again sometime, or sell up & leave it to some other sucker.?

Crimso is on the money, remove arcs, and then remove the fixings and hope it comes out though the opening.

GG

[robbo1172]

Before we installed the patio we used to leave the door open just enough for the dogs to get out. Every now n then a quick rain shower would come through with the wind blowing the wrong way. Patio has been up for 5 years now so water isn't a problem anymore 

Thanks for the info but I think at this point it's more work than it's worth. May need to do it down the track though.

[GGV8Cruza]

Before we installed the patio we used to leave the door open just enough for the dogs to get out. Every now n then a quick rain shower would come through with the wind blowing the wrong way. Patio has been up for 5 years now so water isn't a problem anymore 

Thanks for the info but I think at this point it's more work than it's worth. May need to do it down the track though.

Can you plant another piece of timber on top to hide the damaged part, normally the aluminium frame sits up a bit. You may need to change the architraves and skirting to make it look ok. If not builders bog may be the go. Much easier and cheaper that pulling it out and getting it back in square and level

GG

[dales133]

X2 on the builders bog if it's only superficial damage, you'll be able to do an invisible repair if you take your time

[prodigyrf]

Thank the twirps that placed your aluminium sliding door on timber to start with. No doubt they carefully selected some knotty untreated pine for the job just to really put the boots in. The track should have been level shim fixed with inert plastic leveling packers and then expanding grout applied to the rebate for a professional watertight finish but it's hard to get good help nowadays.
What the others said re simple removal of the whole frame now. So screwing it down and builders bog it is, but be aware before you bog you need to arrest the dry rot which is really fungal attack and here's the good oil on that- http://www.angelfire.com/nc3/davecarnell/rot.html
If you bog decayed timber without first removing the dry rot back to sound timber and then treating it like that, you'll quickly have the repeat problem again where the bog begins and ends.   

[oldmate]

What you need to do is remove the architraves, get a recriprocating saw with a metal blade. The timber reveals will, more likely than not, be nailed through to the timber wall framing behind. Start at top, being careful with the saw blade, cut down until you strike no more nails. Repeat on the other side & then across the head. With a bit of luck the brickie won't have fixed any veneer ties to the door, they do sometimes. Then often the plastic flashing will cause grief too. You now have to basically bash the door out from the outside inwards, hopefully carpet & or tiles won't be a problem! If they are, you will probably have to destroy the aluminium frame.
I do this type of thing for a living (construction insurance repair work) and this is one of those jobs that are usually a real pain in the arse!

Why is the timber water damaged? Blocked weep holes, overflowing gutters, roof leak? If the cause isn't fixed, you'll have to do it again sometime, or sell up & leave it to some other sucker.?

Spot on. The revels are attached with stables to the aluminium door frame on a flange. It also has dpc attached  the door Is then stood up in the frame and fixed off through the revels to the jamb studs and head.  You need to remove arcs and cut the fixings arcross the top and down sides.  If the dpc has been nailed to the front of the framing it can can be a pain.  Once this is sorted you should be able to tap the whole thing inwards and clear the frame. Hopefully. May need to people to bring it out square. Like above, hopefully your tiles don't give you greif. Have done heaps of this with no need for a Brickie.  The othe hard bit is getting it back in and the dpc back in the right spot, as this is all done before the brickie. Good luck, patience is the key.

[Crimso]

Before we installed the patio we used to leave the door open just enough for the dogs to get out. Every now n then a quick rain shower would come through with the wind blowing the wrong way. Patio has been up for 5 years now so water isn't a problem anymore 

Thanks for the info but I think at this point it's more work than it's worth. May need to do it down the track though.

By that it doesn't sound as though you have to remove the frame. Sounds more cosmetic than major surgery, what I'd do in this instance is as suggested by GGV8 & plant a piece over the existing. Probably a bit of 68 x 11 fj pine. If need be you may have to replace the archies but this is not absolutely necessary as after painting & a couple of months you won't even see the difference & neither will anyone else unless it's pointed out to them. Keep it simple.

[prodigyrf]

Let's get the picture straight here. Does the alum sliding door have timber reveals fixed sides and top with aves fixed around that covering the gyprock inside? (bear in mind here in SA it's common to have gyprock reveals to mimic solid brick and plaster walls internally) Whatever, your real problem is the bozos set the door bottom on vulnerable timber on the concrete slab and it's that that has bowed and been attacked by dry rot now and hence the problem with the sliding door action.

Also be aware that the integral bottom track on these aluminium sliding doors can wear quickly over time with concomitant rough running, but you can repair that in situ by carefully cutting off the raised tracks and rivetting a special repair/replacement one back in its place and fit new rollers. Preferably stainless steel ones rather than nylon because soft on soft wears more quickly than hard on soft due to imbedment of silica and the like (think big end motor bearings or aluminium pistons on cast iron here). Whatever, if the track is bowed due to poor/distorted timber support underneath, the doors will never operate properly and has to be sorted. Some minor decay in any side timber reveals (presumably at the bottom) is largely cosmetic and can be treated and bogged for aesthetics.

[Crimso]

Let's get the picture straight here. Does the alum sliding door have timber reveals fixed sides and top with aves fixed around that covering the gyprock inside? (bear in mind here in SA it's common to have gyprock reveals to mimic solid brick and plaster walls internally) Whatever, your real problem is the bozos set the door bottom on vulnerable timber on the concrete slab and it's that that has bowed and been attacked by dry rot now and hence the problem with the sliding door action.

Also be aware that the integral bottom track on these aluminium sliding doors can wear quickly over time with concomitant rough running, but you can repair that in situ by carefully cutting off the raised tracks and rivetting a special repair/replacement one back in its place and fit new rollers. Preferably stainless steel ones rather than nylon because soft on soft wears more quickly than hard on soft due to imbedment of silica and the like (think big end motor bearings or aluminium pistons on cast iron here). Whatever, if the track is bowed due to poor/distorted timber support underneath, the doors will never operate properly and has to be sorted. Some minor decay in any side timber reveals (presumably at the bottom) is largely cosmetic and can be treated and bogged for aesthetics.

Yeah, my bad there as I didn't see the post about the timber at the bottom & took it that the bottom frame was sitting on the slab edge.
To replace a piece of supporting timber under the aluminium sill I'd look at removing the sill bricks and going from there, bit awkward but do-able, then re-lay the sill bricks, making sure there is plenty of drainage. Tools probably needed (excluding the obvious hand tools) include a multi tool for cutting the timber support for removal of the rotted / damaged timber, a rotary hammer drill & bit for a dyna bolt or similar.

[prodigyrf]

Yeah Crimso, carefully removing the sill bricks and ditching the timber altogether could be the go. Then shim and countersink screw fix (stainless steel screws) plus spaghetti the track down level and grout and replace the bricks. Or as most do nowadays render the sill face completely, particularly if you bust the sill bricks getting them out and can't get a match. Even if the bozos had thought to originally set it on timber like Western Red Cedar, you wouldn't be have this problem now.

Where have all the tradies gone? 
http://www.metrolyrics.com/where-have-all-the-flowers-gone-lyrics-joan-baez.html