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Offline Bird

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Remembering the liberation of Auschwitz
« on: January 27, 2015, 11:42:11 AM »
On Google today their theme is Remembering the liberation of Auschwitz

Some interesting photos and couple of video clips...

https://www.google.com/culturalinstitute/project/the-holocaust

https://www.google.com/culturalinstitute/browse/?projectId=the-holocaust
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 12:31:54 PM by Bird »
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Offline Bird

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Re: Remembering the liberation of Auschwitz
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2015, 11:57:34 AM »
https://www.google.com/culturalinstitute/exhibit/evacuation-and-liquidation-of-the-auschwitz-camp/gQgHKRpK?projectId=the-holocaust&position=25%2C96&hl=en-GB

In the photograph Lyudmila Bezludova, b. 1940, transferred from Majdanek concentration camp to Auschwitz on 15 April 1944, and registered as prisoner no. 77263.

After liberation, she was transferred in a group Belarusian children to a care centre in Kraków, then to an orphanage in Harbutowice near Kraków and then to the Bucze Harcerskie preventive centre near Skoczów. There she was renamed Hanna Kosi?ska.

In 1963 she met up with her mother and siblings for the first time since they were separated in Majdanek.

At the time her family was living in Orsha, Belarus. Lyudmila, however, stayed in Poland.
The photograph was taken in 1948. Source: APMA-B
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Offline krisandkev

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Re: Remembering the liberation of Auschwitz
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2015, 02:06:08 PM »
We were at Auschwitz last year and boy, what a place.  My eyes were so red at the end of the tour, there and the neighbouring camp.  Just horrible and unbelievable what happened.  We are so dam lucky!!!!   Kevin
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Offline MarkVS

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Re: Remembering the liberation of Auschwitz
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2015, 02:31:06 PM »
Just impossible to comprehend....
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Offline JCOJ

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Re: Remembering the liberation of Auschwitz
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2015, 02:35:51 PM »
I went there in 1995 and still remember it vividly.  The sign above the main gates is translated 'Work and Be Free' - nothing could have been further from the truth.
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Offline Bird

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Re: Remembering the liberation of Auschwitz
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2015, 02:37:48 PM »
Quote from: MarkVS
Just impossible to comprehend....
What he said...
I went through the whole presentation thing reading it and it just doesn't compute...
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Offline Bird

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Re: Remembering the liberation of Auschwitz
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2015, 08:40:13 AM »
Quote
Auschwitz-Birkenau, Poland: "We do not want our past to be our children's future."

Choking with tears, standing before the 'death gate' of Birkenau, Auschwitz survivor Roman Kent forced himself to continue.

"That is the key to our resistance. We survivors do not want our past to be our children's future."

There was anger as well as grief and mourning at a freezing, snowing Auschwitz on Tuesday, as hundreds of survivors, and political and religious leaders gathered for the 70th anniversary of the liberation of the infamous death camp.

Ronald Lauder, President of the World Jewish Congress told the gathering that, after seeing anti-Semitic marches on the streets of Europe, of attacks on synagogues and Jewish businesses, of the siege at a kosher supermarket in Paris, "it looks more like 1933 than 2015".

A "new storm of anti-Semitism" was sweeping through Europe, he said. "An awful wave of hatred has descended on Earth once again."

Schools must teach tolerance, houses of worship must teach love and countries must make hate a crime, he demanded.

Otherwise "the tragedy of this terrible place will darken the world again."

http://www.theage.com.au/world/survivors-return-to-auschwitz-to-mark-the-70th-anniversary-of-the-liberation-of-the-infamous-nazi-death-camp-20150127-12zkh1.html



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Offline WilSurf

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Re: Remembering the liberation of Auschwitz
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2015, 09:51:54 AM »
And still there are people who denying it ever happened.
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Offline Bird

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Re: Remembering the liberation of Auschwitz
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2015, 10:56:17 AM »
Quote from: WilSurf on January 28, 2015, 09:51:54 AM
And still there are people who denying it ever happened.
Yep, like the first comment on that video!
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Offline achjimmy

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Re: Remembering the liberation of Auschwitz
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2015, 11:16:56 AM »
I remember some old polish in my neighborhood when growing up. I asked dad why they had numbers tattooed on there hand or Arm. I remember that was when it went from distant stories to reality.
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Offline edz

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Re: Remembering the liberation of Auschwitz
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2015, 12:37:31 PM »
Please lets not get all offended and rightchous .... Who's good at maths ...
4.000.000 gased and murdered at the camp [ As per popular History ] divided by ( 547 ) the amount of days the "  extermination " program  ran till liberation at Auschwitz =  (        )   Bodies per day for cremation .
Initialy 2 x crematoria each with 15 ovens with a capacity of 1 x body ea, towards the end there was another two the same built  .. = ( 60 ) but there is only 24 hrs in a day + allowing for body movement into the crematoria  and cool down + cleaning + reheating times that count would be even lower.[ for the most part I havent included the extra 30 ovens ] .
Minimum time to "  roughly " cremate in the best modern gas computerised oven for one body is 1 hr +
So 547 x 24 [ using a modern oven, At best you  only get 1 body ea hour of the day per oven  ] so total for the 547 days using modern eqiptment in the two crematoria would be = 13,128 bodies if they went flat out and were 100% efficient 100% of the time at this camp .Even doubling or quadrupling that figure it falls short, so where did the other millions of bodies go ? .... they wernt in the mass graves they found .or in the airial photos taken over it at the time ..
I'm not saying it didnt happen,It certainly did ... But the figures they quote dont add up for the given time period  for me,  Put aside emotion etc for the moment and do the math ... Some things dont add up to the way popular history has been told and have us beleive .
Edit :  left some calcs out ..30 x 24 = 720 per day x 547 = 393,840..
« Last Edit: January 28, 2015, 03:24:14 PM by edz »
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Offline krisandkev

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Re: Remembering the liberation of Auschwitz
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2015, 12:53:19 PM »
Quote from: edz on January 28, 2015, 12:37:31 PM
Please lets not get all offended and rightchous .... Who's good at maths ...
4.000.000 gased and murdered at the camp [ As per popular History ] divided by ( 547 ) the amount of days the "  extermination " program  ran till liberation at Auschwitz =  (        )   Bodies per day for cremation .
Initialy 2 x crematoria each with 15 ovens with a capacity of 1 x body ea, towards the end there was another two the same built  .. = ( 60 ) but there is only 24 hrs in a day + allowing for body movement into the crematoria  and cool down + cleaning + reheating times that count would be even lower.[ for the most part I havent included the extra 30 ovens ] .
Minimum time to "  roughly " cremate in the best modern gas computerised oven for one body is 1 hr +
So 547 x 24 [ using a modern oven, At best you  only get 1 body ea hour of the day per oven  ] so total for the 547 days using modern eqiptment in the two crematoria would be = 13,128 bodies if they went flat out and were 100% efficient 100% of the time at this camp .Even doubling or quadrupling that figure it falls short, so where did the other millions of bodies go ? .... they wernt in the mass graves they found .or in the airial photos taken over it at the time ..
I'm not saying it didnt happen,It certainly did ... But the figures they quote dont add up for the given time period  for me,  Put aside emotion etc for the moment and do the math ... Some things dont add up to the way popular history has been told and have us beleive .

You need to go there and read and hear the history.  They did not just burn them in the ovens; they did mass graves and used other means.  Just go there and you will understand and just try not to cry at what happened. Stand in a room where there are piles of hair, another with piles of shoes including little children's shoes.   You need to go and ask your question there!   Kevin
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Offline WilSurf

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Re: Remembering the liberation of Auschwitz
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2015, 01:51:31 PM »
Who says 1 body a time?
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Offline kleyny

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Re: Remembering the liberation of Auschwitz
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2015, 03:40:59 PM »
All to close to home for me.

My grandfather ended up in 2 concentration camps 1 was Auschwitz and the other was Dachau.

When I was growing up his numbers where all but gone.

He did not talk about it much but when he did it was unbelievable and horrifying.

Neil
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Offline avotrol

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Re: Remembering the liberation of Auschwitz
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2015, 05:00:24 PM »
At seven years old my mum (from Holland) watched her best friend and family get gunned down as they tried to escape the 'rounding up' of the towns Jewish people. After that, my grandfather joined the underground doing document forging as the Nazis had made him the towns official photographer, so he had access to tightly controlled materials.

During the war he and my grandmother helped many (allied pilots) and Jewish people escape and avoid the horrors of the camps like Auschwitz. Once, the Gestapo questioned him for three days but let him go as he gave them nothing. A quite man of small stature, he never talked about what happened in those times and just got on with it. Most of the details of what he did was found out by an aunty who went back to Holland and spoke to some underground survivors. Hopefully there are some families out there due to his efforts.

Remember the liberation (and horrors) of Auschwitz and all of the camps and may it never happen again.

Avo.

 
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Offline edz

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Re: Remembering the liberation of Auschwitz
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2015, 05:34:48 PM »
As Ive said It Did happen and history shows that NO question about it ....
For me there is a  question mark over the time frame and the numbers is all .
Another Q that bugs me with is, why no one gets out of shape over the 20,000,000 + Ruskies and 30,000,000 + Chinese /Asian victims that went west .
Its not like reporters or Governments have ever embelished anything in war time to further a cause  is it and we should believe everthing that they say without question ...
Anyway like it or lump it, thats our  freedom to have an opinion right or wrong ...
Neil though not what your grandad went through, my dad and an uncle tasted the Japanese way of handling POW's in the Pacific .Yes unbeleivable and horrifying .
Amen to that Avo Amen ..
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Offline Bird

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Re: Remembering the liberation of Auschwitz
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2015, 05:44:41 PM »
Who gives a **** about the numbers? what difference does it make...

if it was 10,000 or 1,000,000 or 4,000,000..... it was the worst crime to do to innocent people... and why I'll never buy a VW :P
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Offline Terry W4

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Re: Remembering the liberation of Auschwitz
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2015, 05:54:16 PM »
Quote from: edz on January 28, 2015, 05:34:48 PM
As Ive said It Did happen and history shows that NO question about it ....
For me there is a  question mark over the time frame and the numbers is all .
.....

Why FFS. I think others know more than you and the Nazis were meticulous with records.
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Offline Moggy

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Re: Remembering the liberation of Auschwitz
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2015, 05:58:33 PM »


Quote from: Bird on January 28, 2015, 05:44:41 PM
if it was 10,000 or 1,000,000 or 4,000,000..... it was the worst crime to do to innocent people... and why I'll never buy a VW

With that logic then i assume you wouldnt own a Japanese vehicle either
A friend of my fathers was in Changi & he hated the Japanese with a passion & wouldnt even have a jap colour tv

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

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Offline WilSurf

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Re: Remembering the liberation of Auschwitz
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2015, 06:06:11 PM »
Please keep it nice, it is horrible enough.
Luckily my parents (born in 1933 and 1934) lived in rural Holland.
They were not effected like many others, but they managed to have a friendship with others from WW2 as these friends came from the big city Rotterdam ansd had to flee to the country.
Close to my parents in the Underground Village. I have been there a few times and it is amazing how people lived there in relative safety: http://translate.google.com.au/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://www.nunspeetvillage.nl/toer/9006.html&prev=search

It is translated not sure if it is correct.
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Offline lino6

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Re: Remembering the liberation of Auschwitz
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2015, 06:25:32 PM »
Visiting Auschwitz would be on my bucket list if I was making one. I've read the books, watched the movies but I doubt it will compare to being there.

My granny who is still kicking, born in 1913, tells some stories of the wars. She had relos who fought the Japanese. She used to say that they wouldn't talk much about what happened but had an intense hatred for them. Must have been horrific.
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Offline krisandkev

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Re: Remembering the liberation of Auschwitz
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2015, 07:56:46 PM »
We were there last July.  Here are just a few photos.  It was hard to even take them, just did not feel right.   Kevin







Just a small part of the shoes...   I could not bring myself to photo the human hair....





The nearby camp.



Sleeping bunks had to be shared.



Toilets


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Offline Bird

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Re: Remembering the liberation of Auschwitz
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2015, 08:21:05 PM »
Quote from: krisandkev on January 28, 2015, 07:56:46 PM
We were there last July.  Here are just a few photos.  It was hard to even take them, just did not feel right.   Kevin







Just a small part of the shoes...   I could not bring myself to photo the human hair....





The nearby camp.



Sleeping bunks had to be shared.



Toilets


Good photos..

Like others I would like to visit these places.. I feel it would be very eerie....
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Offline dales133

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Re: Remembering the liberation of Auschwitz
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2015, 08:30:16 PM »
The theory that this was man's worst atrocity and places like this were left to remind mankind and stop genocide.... I've been to s21 and the killing fields in Cambodia.
More people killed in less time than in Europe.
Even more appalling is isreal is bombed refuge camps 24/7 for over a month last year.
If the Jews learned nothing about Compasion and miss treatment from recent history then I guess everyone has an excuse to punish the weak
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Re: Remembering the liberation of Auschwitz
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2015, 08:40:52 PM »
Sadly, this wasn't the first such occurrence in the 20th century.

The Ottoman Empire (not Turkey) set out to exterminate the Armenian's.

When Hitler was challenged that he would not get away with his 'final solution' his retort was "But no-one remembers the Armenian's."

Have been other instances since, such as Rwanda.

I agree that the issue isn't the numbers, all instances are as bad as each other.  What  is so 'eerie' about the Nazi example iS the clinical, pseudo scientific 'efficiency' that they applied to mass murder.  Complete with records.

Dales has also identified other examples.

If I were a Palestinian I would find it extremely difficult to not come to the conclusion that I had become a stateless person primarily because the rest of the world chose to use my homeland to attempt to expunge its guilt at having done nothing to stop Hitler's crimes against humanity towards European Jews.

Both World Wars have left a legacy of 'quick fixes' in the Middle East which may well yet be rued by all of us.
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