Pajero owners - Matching Camper trailer and car wheels

[MarkVS]

Guys,

I have a NP Pajero. If I were to get a new camper, and want to match car and trailer wheels (for spare scenarios), am I correct in understanding...

I make sure the stud pattern wheel and tyre size are the same on trailer as car.

That will give me extra spares for the car, but it won't allow me to put car spares on the camper as the wheel rim 'centre bore' will be smaller on the car, and hence the car wheel rim won't fit over the axle end on the camper trailer ?


Mark

 

[Ratbag]

Gidday Mark

You need to use rims that are the same width, and have the same stud pattern and offset as your vehicle rims. Also make sure that the wheel studs have the same thread as your vehicle - i.e. the wheel nuts are also identical.

Safest course is to buy rims and tyres from a wrecker that are specifically for your vehicle.

Of course, this might also entail changing your hubs and axle to suit (worst case scenario, but almost certain to be the case ... ).

An ex-SAS mate told me that having the towed and towing vehicles wheels interchangeable wasn't optional when I was rebuilding my trailer as a CT.

[Chris J]

Hi Mark,

You need to match stud pattern, offset, and centre hole to be able to interchange legally. it is also illegal to run a 105mm centre hole rim on a Pajero 67mm hub.

Rims for Mitsubishi Pajero
 
•   Bolt pattern 6 bolt x 139.7mm
o   Rim diameter: 15'' - 18'';   
o   Rim width (inches): 6 - 8;   
o   Rim Offset (mm): 0 - 46.
 
•   Bolt pattern 5 bolt x 114.3 mm
o   Rim diameter: 15'' - 16'';   
o   Rim width (inches): 5 - 6;   
o   Rim offset (mm): 46.

Why not just stay with the standard setup and save some money, how many times have you required more than one spare.

regards, Chris.

[MarkVS]

Thanks guys,
I am possibly able to get it done for nothing....being a potentially new camper.

But from what I am reading, it is either illegal to do for a Pajero or not worth the hassle. ?


Mark

[Chris J]

Thanks guys,
I am possibly able to get it done for nothing....being a potentially new camper.

But from what I am reading, it is either illegal to do for a Pajero or not worth the hassle. ?


Mark

Hi Mark,

No! what I’m saying is, you can’t legally put patrol rims on a Pajero hub.

Go for the biggest hub and bearing size that will fit your new trailer.

Not trying to start an argument as I’m sure some will disagree with my advice.

Regards, Chris.

[Ratbag]

It's not illegal if both camper and vehicle rims are identical.

Subarus are  similar in that they have a very small centre bore, with a 5x100 stud pattern and metric studs. One has to buy the correct rims that fit one's specific vehicle, as there are number of different hub offsets within the brand. E.g. Forester and WRX hubs can be the same in all respects, except for having a different offset (inside edge of rim to hub mount measurement).

The hub offset is one of the determinants of the axle length and therefore the inner wheel to trailer clearance.

[geopaj]

Be aware that NM onwards wheels have a smaller centre hole. Often the Pajero centre hole is not big enough to go over a trailer bearing/hub.

You might find this thread on the Pajero forum interesting...
http://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=15589&highlight=trailer+wheels

[MarkVS]

Be aware that NM onwards wheels have a smaller centre hole. Often the Pajero centre hole is not big enough to go over a trailer bearing/hub.

You might find this thread on the Pajero forum interesting...
http://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=15589&highlight=trailer+wheels

Geopaj,
I suppose thats what I was confirming... so if I get stud patterns, wheel and tyre sizes that match, I still wont have rim 'centre bore' that matches.....as the 'centre bore' is smaller on the car, but needs to be larger on the camper due to axle end sizes....I can put the camper on car, but not car on camper ?

Mark

[db]

Geopaj,
I suppose thats what I was confirming... so if I get stud patterns, wheel and tyre sizes that match, I still wont have rim 'centre bore' that matches.....as the 'centre bore' is smaller on the car, but needs to be larger on the camper due to axle end sizes....I can put the camper on car, but not car on camper ?

Mark

Yes. I originally bought pajero rims to go on our trailer, but had to stick with a conventional rim due to the small pajero hub. The rims I ended up with on the trailer had the same stud pattern, but not quite the same offset. I could get the trailer wheels on the rear of the car in a pinch, but not the other way around. It all became moot when I bought a new pajero with 17 inch rims, so now car and trailer have different sized tyres also. I don't lose any sleep over it, I carry a spare for each regardless, I'll carry a spare carcass for the car when necessary, and plug kit and compressor.

[MarkVS]

Yes. I originally bought pajero rims to go on our trailer, but had to stick with a conventional rim due to the small pajero hub. The rims I ended up with on the trailer had the same stud pattern, but not quite the same offset. I could get the trailer wheels on the rear of the car in a pinch, but not the other way around. It all became moot when I bought a new pajero with 17 inch rims, so now car and trailer have different sized tyres also. I don't lose any sleep over it, I carry a spare for each regardless, I'll carry a spare carcass for the car when necessary, and plug kit and compressor.

Thanks DB..I think thats the scenario everyone is painting for me.  Its hard, and not worth it.

[duggie]

Hi Mark,

If the wheel/rims size and style are the same, same off set , same stud pattern but the camper rim has a larger center hole, at a pinch you could use the camper spare to get you out of trouble, particularly if you had a couple of tap in spacers made up that fitted over the center hub of the Pajero with the O/D ( outside dimension ) turned to be the size of the I/D ( inside dimension ) of the camper rims center hole. 

As I said at a pinch you could get home or to a tyre repair shop.

cheers duggie

Ps, There are a hell of a lot of 4 x4's out there with illegal body and suspension lifts,illegal tyre size eg 35,s or bigger,  illegal fitment of spot/driving lights and so on . Never get looked at , so with the spacer ring between hub and rim center as a emergency spare you would never get looked at. There were some brands of rims sold that have center spacers come from the factory.

[RebsWA]

Waste of time and money IMO unless you plan to keep them both for a long time.
Seen it done only to find when you change cars your back where you started.

[geopaj]

Hi Mark,

If the wheel/rims size and style are the same, same off set , same stud pattern but the camper rim has a larger center hole, at a pinch you could use the camper spare to get you out of trouble, particularly if you had a couple of tap in spacers made up that fitted over the center hub of the Pajero with the O/D ( outside dimension ) turned to be the size of the I/D ( inside dimension ) of the camper rims center hole. 

As I said at a pinch you could get home or to a tyre repair shop.

cheers duggie

Ps, There are a hell of a lot of 4 x4's out there with illegal body and suspension lifts,illegal tyre size eg 35,s or bigger,  illegal fitment of spot/driving lights and so on . Never get looked at , so with the spacer ring between hub and rim center as a emergency spare you would never get looked at. There were some brands of rims sold that have center spacers come from the factory.

I (personally) wouldn't stress about a centre spacer ring for an emergency second spare - after all its not going to be used very often and only to the closest tire repairer.

I don't like wheel spacers (that go between the hub face and the back of the rim to increase track), but I was wondering the other day, if it's worth buying the correct spacer so that the Pajero rim will clear the trailer hub's bearing (ie as an "emergency fall back option")??

[Barry G]

I (personally) wouldn't stress about a centre spacer ring for an emergency second spare - after all its not going to be used very often and only to the closest tire repairer.

I don't like wheel spacers (that go between the hub face and the back of the rim to increase track), but I was wondering the other day, if it's worth buying the correct spacer so that the Pajero rim will clear the trailer hub's bearing (ie as an "emergency fall back option")??

IMO do / use 'whatever it takes' to get out of trouble.  If this gets you from, say, Cameron Corner, to Broker Hill, then you replace the tyre.  Honestly, who cares if it is technically 'illegal'?
Of course, if you are set up to run on spacers, or whatever, on a permanent basis, then that's different.

No different to the old school stuffing tyres with grass as a fix.

[shanegtr]

IMO do / use 'whatever it takes' to get out of trouble.  If this gets you from, say, Cameron Corner, to Broker Hill, then you replace the tyre.  Honestly, who cares if it is technically 'illegal'?

i agree with that comment.

Im in a similar situation with my new discovery. I cant get a hub with a small enough bore size (and maintain the same bearing size) to go to the camper trailer to match up with the disco's rims. I'm going to settle for a rim change on the camper and then just run the same size tyres all round. Then in a worse case scenario I could swap tyres on rims if required to get out of the Shit.

[Ratbag]

Subaru rims have a 56 mm bore hole.

Melbourne Trailer and Caravan make hubs that fit this size centre but still use standard bearings. According to them, there is no difference in strength from their standard hubs, just machined differently. Also cost the same.

I have their hubs on my trailer.

URL:
http://www.melbournetrailers.com.au/Contact.html

[shanegtr]

Subaru rims have a 56 mm bore hole.

Melbourne Trailer and Caravan make hubs that fit this size centre but still use standard bearings. According to them, there is no difference in strength from their standard hubs, just machined differently. Also cost the same.

I have their hubs on my trailer.

URL:
http://www.melbournetrailers.com.au/Contact.html

Wouldnt help much if your running parallel ford bearings (like I am) as the diameter of the outer race alone is 59mm

[Ratbag]

Wouldnt help much if your running parallel ford bearings (like I am) as the diameter of the outer race alone is 59mm

I totally agree.

However, I wasn't suggesting using hubs made for Subaru rims,  just that it is possible to get hubs that have a smaller centre than 'standard' ...

[bodgie]

I'm of the opinion that it isn't necessary to match wheels/tyres. From memory the Pajero has a pretty different offset which may make this a little more difficult an exercise even on a new trailer.

I'd be inclined to just run a 6 stud pattern FWIW, easy to build, easy to sell, easy/cheap to find wheels.

[shanegtr]

I totally agree.

However, I wasn't suggesting using hubs made for Subaru rims,  just that it is possible to get hubs that have a smaller centre than 'standard' ...

Fair point

[nab]

I think it is more important to have the same/very similar sized tyres from camper to 4x4. If you get stuck someone should be able to help you put the camper tyre onto the 4x4 rim to get you out of trouble (if you haven't got the tools to do it yourself).

But it would be good to match rims, especially if it costs you nothing!!!

[Gunsrunner]

The new rims, fitted to my Paj have the 105mm center bore but came with spacers to fit the Paj.
I hope I haven't been sold something that would void my insurance? bought rims and tyers at Bob Jane.
I can fit my new rims and tyers to the CT, but the offset makes them sit to the inside of the guard, but no rubbing.

[evolution]

.

[evolution]

What you are all referring to is called a " hub centric ring/spacer) these are in no way illegal as they do not change the track, structural integrity and are non load bearing. 
Pretty much all aftermarket wheels come with these in the box to suit a variety of cars.
All they do is ensure that the wheel itself is sitting cantered on the hub. This is to primarily solve vibration issues.

Not only that, but there are even oe wheels that have these fitted at delivery. 

So in essence the fitting of a wheel to suit your car on your trailer with the difficulties of pajero hub sizes is actually quite moot. As well as easily solved, any wheel/tyre shop that deals with wheels will be able to get it sorted for you. The main thing is to know your pcd and offset of the vehicle.  Then the axle/ hubs can be made to suit.

What it means in real terms is that the wheels on the camper can go on the car, but the car wheels can't go on the camper.
However if spending X amount of money on a new van and the effort to match pcd and offset what is another grand or so to change the wheels on the car too?
Just make sure to use the correct rings on each.
(ps, use metal rings NOT plastic! Plastic don't last long)

Unless the laws have changed in the last 12 months with out me picking up on it. Although if they had then every wheel shop is breaking the law.

Hope this helps guys, I would have chimed in earlier if I had of read the thread lol.

Cheers
Evo

[Brij]

Is anyone able to tell me where it is written that the wheel must be a "neat" fit over the hub?

I know why it is a good practice from an engineering point of view, but have never seen it written anywhere that it has to be so.

Even after spending years working with roadworthy regs, road law, legislation etc. Plenty about diameters, widths, off set, spacers etc, but not wheel to hub fit.

Peter H