Work for the dole - gets my vote - will it get thru parliament?

[Alan Loy]

It seems that it is easy to create a group of people who we blame for our problems.

This thread demonstrates how easy it is to take the emotional baggage associated with a community problem (lack of jobs) and dump it on a small group of people

note the drug taking, lazy, pierced group we have created that some feel free to not only make work but drug test and "shoot"

Meanwhile the failure of the government/s to fulfill their economic responsibilities becomes less of an issue

" Scapegoating (from the verb "to scapegoat") is the practice of singling out any party for unmerited negative treatment or blame as a scapegoat."

[fishfinder]

When they reach 12 months unemployed remove the cash payments and give them debit cards to use for food, utilities, public transport etc. This will at the very least make it more difficult for bludgers to spend it on drugs, alcohol, tobacco and pokies but I suppose in the end the government gets a good portion of the payment back in taxes if they do.

and the things they purchase with the card would be used to exchange for the booze drugs etc

[oldmate]

note the drug taking, lazy, pierced group we have created that some feel free to not only make work but drug test and "shoot"

Shoot.   Tongue in cheek mate. Take a chill pill.
 

[Shelbyright]

Bottom line is that we do live in a country full of opportunities if you actually want to participate and contribute. I have no doubt there are some that genuinely cannot find work. But there are a majority of unemployed that have created a very nice lifestyle for themselves and have over generations educated their young on how to buck the system. These people want no part of the system, but are very happy to put their hand out and squeeze every cent they can in services that should only be available for ones that truly need it. Tehn we might be able to afford to increase the amount of services and payments to pensioners and truly disabled.

Seems that we need a reality check in this country.  Maybe we should send our long term unemployed overseas for a while. When they come back they would have a different perspective,  as our immigrants do. They seem to make it work.

If people want to live at the beach and not go to work, dont want to be part of the system. Well great! Starve!

Yes there will be more crime, because these people are takers and the world owes them. But one problem at a time eh.

[Snapman007]

Quote from: Snapman007 on Yesterday at 04:56:23 PM
When they reach 12 months unemployed remove the cash payments and give them debit cards to use for food, utilities, public transport etc. This will at the very least make it more difficult for bludgers to spend it on drugs, alcohol, tobacco and pokies but I suppose in the end the government gets a good portion of the payment back in taxes if they do.
and the things they purchase with the card would be used to exchange for the booze drugs etc

and the things they purchase with the card would be used to exchange for the booze drugs etc

Yep, as I said, at the very least it would make it more difficult for them to obtain these items.
Plus, there would have to be some incentive for the other party to do the exchange, which means their debit cards would buy/exchange for less than cash.

[Moggy]

It's good in theory, but the practicality of administrating such programs mean there not financially viable. Like someone else said take away the dole the only option is crime. So what costs more dole payments or prisoners. I would suspect the "hardcore" bludger would turn up, get injured & then expect to go on compo.
I have my own business & its died in the are hear, had a look at Bunnings website for maybe part time work, after an hour of trying to figure out how you make an application, I just gave up. So I can only imagine how deflating it must be for someone who is long term unemployed

[Bird]

Yes there will be more crime, because these people are takers and the world owes them. But one problem at a time eh.

I'd rather prevent some deadShit robbing and stabbing my family.. one problem at a time WTF?

[chester ver2.0]

Work for the dole is a good idea in my opinion, but 40 applications a month?  That's just crazy, and small business owners will hate it.

I agree with you Symon and it is not productive if i wanted to cheat the system i could just also write to the large companies expresssion of interest section in their careers section of the website in question have cover letter and resume ready to go and smash out 40 of these before lunch

I do like the 25hrs a week work however and maybe 10 what i call solid applications a month in areas you have skills in

[gronk]

Well, I'm going to be unemployed in 2 days ( retrenched )....but I'm not going to winge about it ...yet....but seeing as I can't get on the dole for a long time yet, I will have to get a job..........IF I can find one...

I've been on the dole once before ( 15 yrs ago ) and for a person who wants to work, it is a place I personally don't want to be....but being 55 yrs old, the reality is it might come to that..

Working for the dole is an old idea, and one that doesn't work !!

If you are genuinely out of work and out of money, how do you get to "work" each day ?  pay your own way, which eats into your dole payment.....and the work you do doesn't get you a job, it's just cheap labour for whoever signs up to use you.....and the true dole bludger has always got a way around it anyway !!

[Bird]

Back home I know blokes who have not worked a day in their lives since leaving school. Some would be in their 60s now and still smoking cones every day, snortin Shit, shootin up other stuff, pissing on every weekend, partying, renting, no car, no license, some have lost their licenses for 20yrs but they are enjoying THEIR world...
Its not for me - which is why I left.

Some of these blokes have not a care or plan in life in the world. Most of them know the system dole backwards - better than the moronic staff at Centerlink or what ever they are called this week.

Most have been sent on training courses many times over the years, many have been booted off the dole dozens of times and go back on after a short time - many do cash work for mates.. Some get the dole AND cash work. Some used to in the old days get multiple dole cheques... But that's not isolated to my home town...

There will always be people like this - that's just how people are. Some strive to succeed work like dogs their whole lives - others couldn't give a Shit.

But you cant tar every unemployed person with this brush. I have mates whose trades have disappeared from this country, things they worked 20-30yrs at which was their only job they knew that doesn't exist.. Retraining sounds easy but can be damn ****ing expensive. Then you have to get a start in a company with ZERO experience at an older age.. This is a big downer for many employers.

As said work for the dole, is just cheap labour = and it makes the unemployment figures look better every month for the party in power. I believe that they consider 1 hour a week as employed with the "Current unemployment figures" each month - talk about a fallacy...

[duggie]

I am not in favor of the WFTD , but I do wonder if and when they bring this in ,

What rights will these people have in regards to payment verses hours worked ?

If you are working for payment you are classified as an employee and the person/company who you are employed by is the employer.

As an employee of the Govenerment ( Working for the dole ) these peolpe should be getting no less than the minimum wage per hour of employment.

I have copied/pasted information from the  Fair Work Ombudsman.

The national minimum wage is currently $16.87 per hour or $640.90 per 38 hour week (before tax).

Casual employees covered by the national minimum wage also get at least a 25 per cent casual loading.


The Fair Work Ombudsman has a number of resources to assist employers and workers find their right pay. These resources can be accessed from www.fairwork.gov.au/pay.

Fair Work Ombudsman
Minimum wage

Employers and employees cannot agree to a rate of pay which is less than the applicable minimum wage.

An employee cannot be paid less than the base rate of pay that would be payable to them under a modern award.

A contravention of a term of a modern award or a national minimum wage order may result in penalties of up to $10,200 for an individual and $51,000 for a corporation.

[muzza01]

As I said in my very first post:

I am not having a shot at the genuine people trying to get a job just the lazy so and so's who have no intention of ever working.

There are plenty of bludgers out there that have no intention of ever working a day in their life. Some of these people are generation driven, that is their parents have never worked a day in their life and they are just following in their footsteps. Some of them have falsified medical conditions that give them pension entitlements and social housing.

To be honest, I am sick of subsidising these people's lives. It might be a ploy from the government to distract the voter; so what? If it makes life a little more difficult for them to get the dole then so be it.

[grafy82]

As I said in my very first post:

I am not having a shot at the genuine people trying to get a job just the lazy so and so's who have no intention of ever working.

There are plenty of bludgers out there that have no intention of ever working a day in their life. Some of these people are generation driven, that is their parents have never worked a day in their life and they are just following in their footsteps. Some of them have falsified medical conditions that give them pension entitlements and social housing.

To be honest, I am sick of subsidising these people's lives. It might be a ploy from the government to distract the voter; so what? If it makes life a little more difficult for them to get the dole then so be it.

BINGO!!!

[terravista]

I have a view that changing it from a "Work For The Dole" scheme to a "Get Bored Crapless" scheme is the way to go.
If people on welfare want to actively participate in work for the dole, make it so the more work you do the more dole you get paid, and if you choose not to work then you get locked into a secure enclosures with nothing to break the boredom for 5 hours per week day, with enough lights and sounds to prevent sleeping.
That way any useless dole recipients who want to go surfing/bludging/drinking/smoking/drug taking all day instead of participating in improving themselves or the area, would soon learn that it's better to work and get paid than sit in a room by yourself with no break from tedium.
Any extra money given to the participants in the working scheme would be returned indirectly to the Government as the money is spent so it is not wasted.
Another money raising idea would be to take the kids from drug addled crack whores and other low life mothers who spit out kids just to claim the baby bonuses and sell them. It would be a bonus for the kids to have parents who actually want them and the Government could make $30 000+ per sale.
I also agree to drug testing all recipients of welfare. 
Cheers

[oldmate]

Ive been thinking about it today, and you know what. Give em all a payrise, extra $200 a week should do it, we pay pollies, and they are the biggest dole bludgers at all. Actually, lets send all the dole bludgers into the govt houses and they can all sit there and bludge together, at least it will look like they are working

[Ynot]

Ive been thinking about it today, and you know what. Give em all a payrise, extra $200 a week should do it, we pay pollies, and they are the biggest dole bludgers at all. Actually, lets send all the dole bludgers into the govt houses and they can all sit there and bludge together, at least it will look like they are working

Sounds like the Greens policy suggestion last week, increase the welfare payment by $50 per week and scrap WFTD.

[Shelbyright]

I'd rather prevent some dead**** robbing and stabbing my family.. one problem at a time WTF?

are you serious? Do you really think we as a country should do nothing just because we fear that all the bludgers will turn into violent crooks? That space is generally reserved for druggies etc. If they are going to do it, it will happen anyway. Society these days seems to be frozen. No one wants to get involved because of fear of reprisals, so what? We let the crooks and the takers win? WTF?

[Shelbyright]

It seems that it is easy to create a group of people who we blame for our problems.

This thread demonstrates how easy it is to take the emotional baggage associated with a community problem (lack of jobs) and dump it on a small group of people

note the drug taking, lazy, pierced group we have created that some feel free to not only make work but drug test and "shoot"

Meanwhile the failure of the government/s to fulfill their economic responsibilities becomes less of an issue

" Scapegoating (from the verb "to scapegoat") is the practice of singling out any party for unmerited negative treatment or blame as a scapegoat."

we did create this group, we made it easier and better off to bludge than to work!

[Mik01]

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/job-seekers-could-be-forced-to-turn-to-crime-expert-warns-20140729-3cs3h.html

good point from one of the comments - at 29 you can be excluded from the dole for 6mths when you lose your job, but at that age you can be married with children, mortgage etc - what happens if cant get money from the dole, cant feed your family, cant pay mortgage or rent but are desperately looking for work and cant afford to get around to multiple job interviews to get the bloody job?

we are talking about battlers - everyday people who don't have bulk savings to fall back on - genuine people.

if they don't top themselves and their family, resort to crime to steal stuff, or borrow from dodgy 'lenders' and max out credit cards - how are they supposed to live?  I hate dole bludgers - and they are easily recognisable in the system - but if you lost your job through no fault of your own and cant get another job, have no money etc - its starvation or desperation... 

[Bird]

are you serious? Do you really think we as a country should do nothing just because we fear that all the bludgers will turn into violent crooks? That space is generally reserved for druggies etc. If they are going to do it, it will happen anyway. Society these days seems to be frozen. No one wants to get involved because of fear of reprisals, so what? We let the crooks and the takers win? WTF?

So increasing crime is the answer... thank **** I don't know the question..

and people wonder why I want 5000 acres to myself with razor wire fences, moats, and lazer guided missiles aimed away from the first 100 acres to shoot anything that moves.

if they don't top themselves and their family, resort to crime to steal stuff,

its ok, you may have missed it, crime is the solution.

[dazzler]

- our population is increasing
- our tax base is shrinking
- the retirement age is getting higher

We talk about it costing too much to drug test dole recipients. Who would pay for these vehicles when the car companies cant even make money? (sorry for getting off topic)

They made cars no one wanted. 

[D4D]

Iam lookin for work,been on the dole for 12 months.after being made redundant while on workcover. it's bloody hard to even get an interview . if ya can get to the interview stage your age (1am 58) is a barrier, then try and pass a medical with a stuffed back. last week i sent out 42 resumes. i got 1 phone call from a recruitment company wanting to offer me training. forklift licence i've held it for 35 years. even mates that need someone to help out won't. i could start today doin change overs if i lied about my medical condition, but that could come back to bite me on the arse if something happened. so i send out as many resumes as possible everyday. it must give these labour hire places the ****s gettin my resume.i also do 2 days a week at the local community centre pokin about doin odd jobs. i just hope everyone understands it's not easy.

How are you going these days Greg?

[Andreweasty90]

I think they should just get 3 months of dole then one of three options 1. Enlistment into the ADF. 2. Assigned a entry level job from sweeping floors or stocking shelves at woollies or 3. No more payments


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[edz]

What a great idea
 Think I'll tell the bosses what I think of them, sign up for the rock n roll then enjoy a three month camping trip laying around the beach, before I get a free entry into an Armed service with all the benefeits and trappings that goes with it [ Gotta be a hellova lot better than the clown I put up with now ].... Right hand raised I do solemly swear to up hold Blah blah blahh Quick where do I sign ... before ya change your mind..

[Oldandslow]

Tough and emotional topic.

There is no "right" way to handle large scale unemployment, if there was some country would have come up with it by now.

Handing out generous amounts of money with almost no accountability does not work, it just makes it easier for those that don't want to work.

Stopping all forms of assistance can't work either because crime then becomes the only option for those that don't want to work.

The idea of "working for the dole" is just an effort to get long term unemployed back into the routine of getting up in the morning and having a commitment  instead of going surfing, hanging out at the park or watching TV all day.

It is not targeted at those people that have lost their jobs through no fault of their own and are prepared to work, however it will affect them.

I know quite a few unemployed people and almost without exception they are looking for a certain type of work and are not prepared to accept anything less. Their comment when told there are lesser jobs available is usually "why would I work for that, I would be better off on the dole".

 In most other countries this is not an option and it has got to the point where it should not be in Australia either.