Author Topic: outback roller drawer child restraint points  (Read 13616 times)

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Offline maverick01

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outback roller drawer child restraint points
« on: January 21, 2014, 07:58:09 PM »
Hi guys and gals,

I purchased a 2nd hand set of outback roller drawers for the 05 GU patrol. Now I will say these are kike brand new even though they are the older set, even the wife loves them now that's got to be a bonus in itself.

My concern is that I cant find any info online about fitting a child restraint point to the back of the drawers. Now there is a hole in the back of the drawers that lines up perfectly with the headrest on the seats.

Most of the larger 4wd mobs want like $30 for tbe child restraint kit, my problem is what does the kit consist of as I have already got the child restraint hook from a previous car. Can I use this is or is it a special type to suit the drawers.

If possible can someone please take a photo of the restraint kit if they have just bought 1 or possible even how yours is mounted.


cheers
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Offline D4D

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Re: outback roller drawer child restraint points
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2014, 08:04:00 PM »
Send 4wdinteriors an email, they are very good at responding info@4wdinteriors.com
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Offline Jason B

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Re: outback roller drawer child restraint points
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2014, 08:11:14 PM »
Mate to be honest I have never noticed child restraint fittings in the draws. I have had approx 6 to 8 different sets of outbacks over the years. I currently have a set In my 80 series that are out of a GU. I have never considered the draws as a mounting point for a child restraint.

On the 80 I have two choices. There is a threaded bolt hole in the back of the rear seat, you can put a child restraint fitting in this location. Secondly in the back cargo area of the 80 just inside the rear door there is a trim panel in the roof. Beneath this trim panel is another bolt location for a child fitting.

I use the one in the back of seat. I can't remember what the set up in the patrol was, however I would investigate for a similar location in the seat back. You May just have to purchase the kit with the rated bolt and raised receiver.

In my opinion fitting the restraint to the fixed draws would be a PITA as you couldn't fold the seat forward at all when the child seat was fitted. As mine is now you can tilt the seat forward to access the mount, making taking the seat in and out easy. The mount is also in this same spot in our sedan (2011 model) and allows for folding of the seat for fitting and removal.

Hope this helps.

Jas

Offline maverick01

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Re: outback roller drawer child restraint points
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2014, 08:19:00 PM »
Thanks guys,  we personally dont have kids but I want them fitted because we occasionally go away with some friends who have kids and they usually jump in the GU for a drive up some tracks.

I will emIl them tomorrow
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Offline maverick01

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Re: outback roller drawer child restraint points
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2014, 12:55:18 PM »
Does anyone have any pictures of there outback drawer system with child restraint points fitted
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Offline chester ver2.0

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Re: outback roller drawer child restraint points
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2014, 01:19:59 PM »
Are you sure they are actually child restraint points on the drawers i am suprised as i thought that would involve some rather expensive testing to have them standards approved
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Offline D4D

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Re: outback roller drawer child restraint points
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2014, 01:31:46 PM »
Are you sure they are actually child restraint points on the drawers i am suprised as i thought that would involve some rather expensive testing to have them standards approved

Yup, they use it as a selling point, from their web site - Roller Drawers Compliant to ADR42/03 Child Restraint Anchorages Compliant to ADR3/02 & 34/01 Cargo Barriers Compliant to AS/NZS/4034.2:2001
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Offline Matto

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Re: outback roller drawer child restraint points
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2014, 01:43:39 PM »
Maverick,

I went through a similar discovery process a while ago when I was thinking about fitting drawers to our car. The OEM points are on the cargo floor, about a foot back from the rear set, so would be completely covered by the drawers. The following is what I could piece together at the time, and was correct for QLD. I know for a fact that other states were different, and even QLD may have moved on since then.

What I came up with:
* Fitting child seat points to a set of drawers in QLD is not legal, nor is there any way to make it so.
* This is the case even if the drawer manufacturer uses a steel frame and/or includes replacement child restraint points. QLD authorities don't recognise these as suitable anchor points.

* Most people run an extension strap from the original anchor point on the floor, under/behind the drawers and then up to the child seat.
* This is also technically illegal, as nothing can interfere with the restraint strap. The concern is that in a crash the area that the strap wraps around may buckle and the strap suddenly goes loose. Also concerns about fraying the strap where it touches anything - obviously these are in spots that you wouldn't look at often to inspect.
* RACQ has the list of workshops approved to add additional child restraint anchors to a vehicle, and can tell you who is close to you.
* These anchors must go into the bodywork of the car (IE, even an approved workshop can't add one to a drawer system) in the right spots.
* As Jason points out, you can get the anchors installed in the roof in the rear of the cabin. So long as you don't mind the straps being in the way. This may require cargo barrier mods, if you have one (clear path for the strap). This is commonly done for wagons with 50/50 split-fold seats, who need a 34rd anchor in the middle seat.
* Once fitted, you need a blue-plate fitted for the modification.

* The next option is to install a CRAB bar in the rear, and the new points get fitted to it. Google it to see examples.
* This was about $300 when TJM quoted me. They had the car for a day, but the only suitable bodywork for them to attach it to was right at the rear of the car just inside the tailgate. I believe in the GU you can fit one right behind the second row seats.  Big thanks to TJM for ringing to ask me about it. They had to order the bar in especially for me, but didn't charge me a cent when they couldn't make it work acceptably well.

* Final option for us was to talk to a fellow in town who modifies vehicles for disabled people. He has all the correct certs and approval to do this stuff.
* The plan was for him to dismantle the rear seat, weld in all the required bracing, and install new child anchor points directly to the rear of the seat back. If you've ever seen a VE wagon, this is exactly the outcome that we would have got.
* This would also have to be approved, engineer-inspected and blue-plated.
* We didn't go ahead because of the cost.
* Without a doubt this was the best/ most seamless solution though.

In the end, we just didn't bother with the drawers.

I hope things have changed since then, but that's where we left it. In all honesty, I would have been happy with the CRAB bar if we could have made it work. Depending on how far it intrudes into your cargo area, it might be a good option.

Cheers,
Matt
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Offline Red Dog 4x4

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Re: outback roller drawer child restraint points
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2014, 02:17:19 PM »
Can't really add to the info but some thing like this might work http://www.estuaryexhaust.com.au/child_anchor.html

Even with or with out the cargo barrier would still be a good idea, As a kid I remember the old mans 60 series had one fitted when the little sister came along.

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Offline maverick01

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Re: outback roller drawer child restraint points
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2014, 03:33:59 PM »
Thanks everyone for there info.  Very much appreciated. But what I can't understand is that if outback roller drawers states it complies with ADR regulations as stated by D4D then if you got fined or questioned by department of transport then wouldn't outback roller drawers be liable for everything.
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Offline maverick01

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Re: outback roller drawer child restraint points
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2014, 03:54:18 PM »
I spoke to 4wd interiors and they informed me that since these drawers are the older type they never got compliance to suit child points. The newer drawers did though.

He mentioned about using an extension piece but before I do so I would like to find someone in Qld that deals with this daily.
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Offline Matto

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Re: outback roller drawer child restraint points
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2014, 04:09:55 PM »
Thanks everyone for there info.  Very much appreciated. But what I can't understand is that if outback roller drawers states it complies with ADR regulations as stated by D4D then if you got fined or questioned by department of transport then wouldn't outback roller drawers be liable for everything.
I cannot answer that. All I know is what was told to me above. Some of the info came from RACQ, some of it came from the QLD Transport Vehicle Mods team, others from industry guys. The impression I got was that the buck stopped with you - you fitted the drawers, it's up to you to ensure that you fit them in a way that complies with the law (not necessarily what the manufacturer claims).

I don't think you'd get pulled over and fined for having non-compliant drawers. But if you were involved in an accident, and there was a problem with the child restraint points or straps, then you might be leaving yourself open (legally, and insurance-wise).

Again, my experience was a couple of years ago now - it may all have changed with the introduction of the NCOP rules. It was darn annoying when I was going through it at the time, so I feel your pain.

Structurally, I believe the problem to be with the welding of the frame, and the inability of it to be of a known standard. IE, a welded frame made by me is going to be far and away worse than the same welded frame made by practically anyone else. That's why you see on a CRAB bar, it's all bolted together with nice graded bolts - you know what you're getting. Short of xraying every weld, you don't have that same confidence. Pretty welds can be weak, crappy looking welds can be strong, etc.

Email (or call) the QLD vehicle mods team and have a chat to them. I've always found them really helpful. They can take a few days to reply to an email, but they've always come back with a huge amount of pertinent info that's right on point.

Good luck,
Matt
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Offline jetcrew

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Re: outback roller drawer child restraint points
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2014, 05:18:21 PM »
Been through this too mate..

the earlier outback drawers did not have an ADR for child restraint points..give them a call.....

So what you need to do in order to SAFLEY carry children is get an approved point installed in the car that is accessible taking into account all the points listed by other members.

For my 100 series it involved a authorised person coming out home(fitter) and installing a restraint point in the sill above the rear door, a blue plate installed under the bonnet I then got an approved child seat extension strap and this went from back of seat on diagonal up to rear sill area. Some seats have enough strap length. 

A real pain as the strap went through the cargo space. But i worked with it.

I used this bloke in brisbane

Barryan accessory Fitting
3203 2002 or 0417 634 016 

he is an DOT approved child restraint fitter asnd compliance officer. charged me about $150 inc blue mod plate.

Don't mess around with it mate, if you have a bad crash and a child gets hurt you will never forgive yourself.....child might still get hurt but if you have taken all steps avail to you then you will harbour no guilt.

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Offline maverick01

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Re: outback roller drawer child restraint points
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2014, 06:34:53 PM »
We personally dong have kids and cant due to medical reasons.

So my guess is if our mates want to takes there kids 4wd then they will have to buy there own 4wd.

I will continue to get to the bottom of it and I want to thank everyone for there input.
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Offline jetcrew

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Re: outback roller drawer child restraint points
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2014, 06:48:19 PM »

So my guess is if our mates want to takes there kids 4wd then they will have to buy there own 4wd.



Thats gold mate  :cup: :cup: :cup:

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Offline maverick01

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Re: outback roller drawer child restraint points
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2014, 07:01:08 PM »
Well I can't see the point of out laying money to cart someone else's kids around 1 or 2 times a year. Doesn't seem logical
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Offline 02-SR5

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Re: outback roller drawer child restraint points
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2014, 07:06:37 PM »
Your loosing sleep worrying about securing some one else kids in your 4wd?

This is the same as maintaining a spare room in your house, for relatives that stay 3 nights of the year, and your "study" is in the lounge room.
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Offline lilstookie

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outback roller drawer child restraint points
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2014, 05:51:57 PM »
We have the Outback Interiors drawers with cargo barrier, divider and top shelf. The reason we have theirs is because (to my understanding) it's the only safety approved system we could have with kids seats (we have three). They are in Cairns, so surprised to read those points came from QLD.

Here's a shot of one of them. It's the best I could do because of the barrier. Hope this helps!



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Offline DaveR

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Re: outback roller drawer child restraint points
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2014, 05:57:31 PM »
Another option is to fit a Crab Bar. It is the white bar behind the cargo barrier in this pic that I found on Google.


Perhaps this can be fitted above the drawers etc. It will allow 3 kids seats.
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Offline maverick01

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Re: outback roller drawer child restraint points
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2014, 06:10:45 AM »
Thanks jet crew,

I rang Barry yesterday and he said he can actually comply the drawers and he will install 2 child restraint points only as long as he can see that the drawers were bolted down using hi tensile bolts.

Thanks once again to everyone's assistance
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Offline jetcrew

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Re: outback roller drawer child restraint points
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2014, 02:24:14 PM »
Thanks jet crew,

I rang Barry yesterday and he said he can actually comply the drawers and he will install 2 child restraint points only as long as he can see that the drawers were bolted down using hi tensile bolts.

Thanks once again to everyone's assistance

Top outcome mate..  :cup: :cup: :cup:

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Offline Matto

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Re: outback roller drawer child restraint points
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2014, 09:45:53 AM »
Top outcome mate..  :cup: :cup: :cup:
+1 - great result. This makes me seriously consider their drawers if they can legally comply them. Great work.

Cheers,
Matt
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Offline chester ver2.0

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Re: outback roller drawer child restraint points
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2014, 12:15:18 PM »
Another thing is to check your car my 05 prado had these retainers inside the middle seat that a special type of car seat clicked into them negating the need for straps and the like

Sorry i do not have kids hense the speaking in generalisations above
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Offline Matto

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Re: outback roller drawer child restraint points
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2014, 12:34:05 PM »
Another thing is to check your car my 05 prado had these retainers inside the middle seat that a special type of car seat clicked into them negating the need for straps and the like

Sorry i do not have kids hense the speaking in generalisations above

What you're probably describing is the ISOFix attachment system. It's been used around the world for years, but has never been allowed in Australia. Fortunately, this changed mid last year, and now ISOFix car seats are legal to install so long as they're used with a top tether strap ("vanilla" ISOFix doesn't need this). As Chester points out, a lot of cars already have the ISOFix points installed (especially if they're international models - our Impreza had them, but our Commodore doesn't).

http://www.choice.com.au/reviews-and-tests/babies-and-kids/travel/transport/isofix-on-its-way.aspx

Of course, it's not all smooth sailing, because whilst you can now use an approved ISOFix car seat, no car seats have actually been approved :). And using one that you've imported yourself is illegal.

http://www.kidsafeqld.com.au/news/94-isofix-when-is-it-coming-or-is-it

Detractors of ISOFix claim that the original Australian standard (top tether strap + seatbelt), when installed properly, is a much more secure and safer mounting system than an ISOFix attachment. And they're true. However there's research widely available that shows that very few parents manage to properly install a carseat, and far fewer re-tension it regularly to keep it right. Whereas with ISOFix, it's either attached correctly or not attached at all - there's only one way to do it, so you can be confident that they're all of the same standard. The original ISOFix standard didn't need a top tether strap either, so the Australian rules will make it even safer again.

Good ol' government - taking every opportunity to make things more complicated!

Cheers,
Matt
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