Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything

[Mandrake]

Completed the basic 450 today - tested and calibrated everything -
Swapped the Multistars out of the Alien as I am getting these
http://www.banggood.com/DYS-BX2212-KV920-Brushless-Motor-CWCCW-For-RC-Multicopters-p-936355.html - 600 g of lift !!
Also decided to try APM 2.6 for the Alien as well ...

So now I have to wait for calm weather to test fly the 450 ...

[CBRK]

Completed the basic 450 today - tested and calibrated everything -
Swapped the Multistars out of the Alien as I am getting these
http://www.banggood.com/DYS-BX2212-KV920-Brushless-Motor-CWCCW-For-RC-Multicopters-p-936355.html - 600 g of lift !!
Also decided to try APM 2.6 for the Alien as well ...

So now I have to wait for calm weather to test fly the 450 ...

Hi Steve, 

That was quick!

Looks good, finding the right time to maiden can be the challenge.  I'm sure it will work well.  If you have done all the prechecks, and it can arm then make sure you turn the logging on the APM to nearlyall or at least +IMU.  You'll want to verify that your vibrations are within acceptable range, if they are not do not attempt to use the auto modes, such as alt hold or loiter, otherwise it might not react as you are expecting.

Stabilise seems to handle higher vibration levels.  After the first flight have a look and if it's getting too much then add more vibration foam.  My pixhawk will need more foam, it's ok but it occasionally has higher vibrations than I'd like.

Hopefully we have another arducopter convert......  How are you finding the software?

Regards,

Chris

[CBRK]

Hi,

I've gotten the free software to work somewhat, still learning the ropes with it.  This is all from the same photo data set.

This is an orthomosaic from virtualsfm/cmpmvs:


This is a 3D view from Meshlabs:


I need to work out how to use GCP (Ground Control Points) in virtualsfm as there is far to much curvature on the outputs.  The fun of learning new tools.

Chris

[Marschy]

This is interesting. I wonder if CASA will follow suit.

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-faa-says-you-cant-post-drone-videos-on-youtube

[Marschy]

Hi,

I've gotten the free software to work somewhat, still learning the ropes with it.  This is all from the same photo data set.

This is an orthomosaic from virtualsfm/cmpmvs:


This is a 3D view from Meshlabs:


I need to work out how to use GCP (Ground Control Points) in virtualsfm as there is far to much curvature on the outputs.  The fun of learning new tools.

Chris

Very impressive stuff Chris. You're putting us mere geeks to shame.   

I'm assuming this relies heavily on a very stable camera platform. Have you considered an optical flow meter for position hold in favour of dual GPS?

[Mandrake]

Took the 450 out for a test flight this morning - a bit windy but not too bad - It flies just like my Phantom !! Yeeha success at last ...
SOOOOOOOO
That means either I am having trouble calibrating the QBrain 4 in 1 OR The Naza M and Naza Lite don't like it electronically wise ??
SOOOOOOOO
That means I can rebuild the Alien with standard ESCs and it will fly properly .... ( I think LOL ) .
Its a happy Friday 13th for me ~~~
Steve -- over and out .

[Marschy]

Took the 450 out for a test flight this morning - a bit windy but not too bad - It flies just like my Phantom !! Yeeha success at last ...
SOOOOOOOO
That means either I am having trouble calibrating the QBrain 4 in 1 OR The Naza M and Naza Lite don't like it electronically wise ??
SOOOOOOOO
That means I can rebuild the Alien with standard ESCs and it will fly properly .... ( I think LOL ) .
Its a happy Friday 13th for me ~~~
Steve -- over and out .

If you got hold of some carbon fibre sheet (or fibre glass sheet), you could use the existing hardware for the Alien landing gear for making mounts for the ESC's under the bottom plate and still use the crab undercarriage. Or alternatively you could cut the Alien legs up to make some ESC mounts. Moving the ESC's out from between the plates gives you an enormous amount of room between the plates on the Alien. It's one of the design features of this frame that I really like.

Either way, I'm glad to hear you have restored your confidence in the Alien 560.

[Mandrake]

Yep feeling much happier now ...
So I will rebuild the Alien with 4 ESCs ( might stick with the Alien legs . )
I bought another OSD board - I have a red one which is in Chinese and a blue one in English ( both specific for the Naza )

The APM I bought has 915 Mhz telemetry but its for use with a USB ( Laptop ?? ) so I won't be using it - Will I need an OSD board
to get telemetry ?

[Marschy]

Yep feeling much happier now ...
So I will rebuild the Alien with 4 ESCs ( might stick with the Alien legs . )
I bought another OSD board - I have a red one which is in Chinese and a blue one in English ( both specific for the Naza )

The APM I bought has 915 Mhz telemetry but its for use with a USB ( Laptop ?? ) so I won't be using it - Will I need an OSD board
to get telemetry ?

Yep, you will need a minimOSD board.

They are cheap as chips. Avoid the Mavlink version unless you are up for a soldering challenge. I run all my minimOSD's on 5 volts. The Mavlink version of the minimOSD have to be converted to run on 5 volts. Having said that, if you are up for the challenge, it's easy enough to convert to 5V and the Mavlink version of the minimOSD is around $10 and generally cheaper than the minimOSD, but they both do the same job.

Edit: You will also need an FTDI programmer, normally under $5 bucks. This is used for updating the firmware on the minimOSD. Most of the minimOSD's from Aliexpress ship with Chinese character sets and must be reflashed. You should be able to find a seller who has both items.

[Marschy]

Steve, the minimOSD also has two versions of hardware that you must consider if you run separate power supplies for the video chip and the atmel chip. One has a switching power supply and the other version has a linear power supply that is prone to over heating and burning out. If you are familiar with switching regulators, you will notice very quickly that the cheaper versions usually have the linear regulator on them. Avoid these unless you plan on running them on 5 volts. If you are going to run them on 5 volts, the linear regulator doesn't get used and the overheating problem is not an issue.

[Mandrake]

All the photos show it connected only to the APM board - Can it get 5 V from there ? Or do I need to add a seperate stepdown power unit ? ( I have variable mini power supply thingys here stepping from 3V - 30 V up or down to 3V to 30V --) Is that what I use ?

[Marschy]

All the photos show it connected only to the APM board - Can it get 5 V from there ? Or do I need to add a seperate stepdown power unit ? ( I have variable mini power supply thingys here stepping from 3V - 30 V up or down to 3V to 30V --) Is that what I use ?

Yep, it's powered directly from the telemetry port on the APM, so yes, it gets it's 5 V from there. The video chip is also powered by 5 volts but its on a different network on the pcb, typically from the same power supply you use for your camera. That is why there is a regulator on the OSD board, for stepping down the camera 12 volt supply to the 5 volts required for the video chip.

They have separate power supplies for the atmel chip and video chip to reduce any likelyhood of interference to the video signal from EMI from ESC's, motors etc using the same power supply. If you use 5 volts to power the whole board from the one power supply, you can use an inductor to filter the power supply to the camera to reduce or remove this interference.

[Crisp Image]

I built a BT module for the telemetry radio but you can use the on the go cable (OTG) for use on the android phone or android tablets.
This gives portability in the field.
Good work on the 450 Steve. About time you had a win!
Hope to fly on Blue Rag Range tomorrow. If I do I will post up video when I get a chance.
Crispy

[Crisp Image]

Chris,
I got the letter intact this time. You forget to include a tool to get the envelope open!! It's ok a chainsaw did the job.
Did some tests and it works.
Need to trim the pin a little after the weekend!
Crispy

[CBRK]

This is interesting. I wonder if CASA will follow suit.

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-faa-says-you-cant-post-drone-videos-on-youtube

I think the grounds are reasonably cloudy on this issue for here (that is they could fine you).  CASA has the same set of rules that if you make money then it's commercial.  I think in the US it will take someone going to court, if you look at how their IRS counts as business / commercial then in the example above he would be fine.  I honestly think until someone challenges them the FAA will think their stance is correct.  It might be, it might not be, it will up to their court system to work it out.  The longer no one challenges them the more likely their courts will take the side of the FAA.

Over here we could face exactly the same issue, but I think our CASA is a little bit more reasonable (but it is up to their discretion).  If a person made a sizeable about of money from youtube then sure they'd most likely go after you if a complaint was made.

Fingers crossed CASA stays sensible.

Chris

[Marschy]

I'm thinking the AMA in the US will fight this.

[CBRK]

Very impressive stuff Chris. You're putting us mere geeks to shame.   

I'm assuming this relies heavily on a very stable camera platform. Have you considered an optical flow meter for position hold in favour of dual GPS?

Thank you, I have a huge inner geek inside me :-)  I have to say the tools out there are surprisingly simple to use and it's all about flight planning and knowing how to get around limitations.

Surprising no it doesn't have to be mega stable, I had the IXUS connected to my battery tray with a layer of latex foam and rubber bands.  If that didnt work I was going to attach to the gimbal mount but no need to.  The battery tray is connected to the frame by 4 small (1.5mm) bits of curved music wire.  The wire takes a lot of the vibrations out, then the foam reduces it a bit.  I personally think the IXUS is doing a great job considering, I'll take a happy snap of it attached on Sunday (I'm running a flood rescue professional development day tomorrow and will be busy till then).  That rig results in 98+% stable photos, I've only had 3 semi unfocused / blurry photos out of 200 odd.

I have considered the optical flow sensor, I was about to order one when I suddenly finished up my last roll and didnt want to spend that much on it, since I start a new job on Wednesday, if that goes well in the next week or two, I'll order an optical flow and a LIDAR.  I wish the LIDAR would be a bit stronger, that is most of my photogrammetry stuff is at 40-50m which is at the limit of what the LIDAR can do.  To get the best results its best to keep the same height for all the pics, hoping that optical flow will help with that.

Chris

[Marschy]

I am constantly surprised with the Canon 115. For a point and shoot, it has a wonderful lens.

[CBRK]

Yep, it's powered directly from the telemetry port on the APM, so yes, it gets it's 5 V from there. The video chip is also powered by 5 volts but its on a different network on the pcb, typically from the same power supply you use for your camera. That is why there is a regulator on the OSD board, for stepping down the camera 12 volt supply to the 5 volts required for the video chip.

They have separate power supplies for the atmel chip and video chip to reduce any likelyhood of interference to the video signal from EMI from ESC's, motors etc using the same power supply. If you use 5 volts to power the whole board from the one power supply, you can use an inductor to filter the power supply to the camera to reduce or remove this interference.

Hi Steve,

I also have converted my MinimOSD's to 5V.  I also put a small heat sink on them as the analogue chip still gets fairly warm unless you have running air flowing over it.  I'd recommend that you bypass the +5V going in on the analogue side, you only need to connect the GND and SIGNAL lines (both input and output).  You solder the 2 bridges and then it will get its power from the digital side (telemetry connector).  You should see some earlier diagrams I posted for Crisp Image.

I also agree about getting a FTDI board - you'll want to customise the screen and update the character set, also make sure you get a 6pin connector so you can wire it up and have it ready to go.  I have a set of 6 individual connectors hot glued in the right order.  Make sure you also get a Y cable for the telemetry radio and the MinimOSD.

Also I agree with Crispy, get an OTG cable and then you can hook it up to your mobile phone.  I always fly with the telemetry radio connected, if anything goes wrong with my RC radio RX or TX then I have a back to call it home if needed (915Mhz range is much better than 2.4Ghz) or I can sent it on missions easily - it's great to run mission 1 and then decide without landing to upload mission 2 and off it goes, or in the event of a crash I have logs with its GPS location (as well as a copy of the OSD saved to a memory card).......

Chris

[CBRK]

Chris,
I got the letter intact this time. You forget to include a tool to get the envelope open!! It's ok a chainsaw did the job.
Did some tests and it works.
Need to trim the pin a little after the weekend!
Crispy

You mean the tool fell off, goddam Aus Post..... 

Excellent, it's easy to resurrect those damaged GPS's.  Mine didnt even have a crack in it but yet all it took to repair it was replacing the antenna.  It is even better as this one has the thicker ceramic layer so it is shielded from the electronics better.  I was surprised how easy it was, just trim a little at a time and all will be good.

Chris

[CBRK]

I'm thinking the AMA in the US will fight this.

They are limited in what they can do, they can try to change it legislatively (ie: try to convince congress).  It will take someone who gets fined to actually fight it in court, it's a weird how the legal system works, you have to be hit with a penalty to fight stupid laws......

I am constantly surprised with the Canon 115. For a point and shoot, it has a wonderful lens.

I'm just so stoked I found it, I hadnt used it for years.  It is brilliant, in that I was expecting pretty average results after reading many reports on canon cameras - very sensitive to vibrations - something about a floating lens.  Oh you know how I bought a new charger for it, I found my original charger the other day......

I'm thinking of picking up a DSLR to sling on it for for AP - maybe towards the end of the year, I will have the motor power for it.....  I'd need to upgrade the gimbal though, 2208's wont cut it for the pitch and roll and the 3508 wont cut it for the yaw......

I'm still waiting for my step up converter to arrive, it's the only thing holding me back from jumping to 4s, as my camera and FPV Tx needs to get 7-14V....

I got my 14inch props today, damn my Tri is going to be mostly covered in props - I will have to lengthen my booms by 20-30% I think when the new motors arrive.

Chris

[Mandrake]

Hi Steve,

I also have converted my MinimOSD's to 5V.  I also put a small heat sink on them as the analogue chip still gets fairly warm unless you have running air flowing over it.  I'd recommend that you bypass the +5V going in on the analogue side, you only need to connect the GND and SIGNAL lines (both input and output).  You solder the 2 bridges and then it will get its power from the digital side (telemetry connector).  You should see some earlier diagrams I posted for Crisp Image.

I also agree about getting a FTDI board - you'll want to customise the screen and update the character set, also make sure you get a 6pin connector so you can wire it up and have it ready to go.  I have a set of 6 individual connectors hot glued in the right order.  Make sure you also get a Y cable for the telemetry radio and the MinimOSD.

Also I agree with Crispy, get an OTG cable and then you can hook it up to your mobile phone.  I always fly with the telemetry radio connected, if anything goes wrong with my RC radio RX or TX then I have a back to call it home if needed (915Mhz range is much better than 2.4Ghz) or I can sent it on missions easily - it's great to run mission 1 and then decide without landing to upload mission 2 and off it goes, or in the event of a crash I have logs with its GPS location (as well as a copy of the OSD saved to a memory card).......

Chris

Well this is going to be interesting isn't it !! LOL

All my camera's are 12V jobs - as I already have an OSD board which also runs on 12V I'll try it first - But that's now a LONG LONG way away ...
Once I get the blue OSD I'll start putting the Alien together with 4 ESCs and the new DYS motors -
Then I'll be using the 450 with the APM and Emax 4 in1 ( or QBrain 4in1) ( I'm getting an EMax programming card so I'll probably resurrect the Emax 4in1 ..)
But that's a LONG LONG way away ...
I just bought a new Epson A3 printer , inks and paper for this years photographic competition entries so I'm all out of spare Quad cash for a few months ...LOL
So off to film with the Phantom and playtime with the 450 for now ...
Thanks for all your help and advice guys ... Hope to catch up with you all in September face to face ... might have all 3 working by then eh !! LOL
Steve

[CBRK]

Well this is going to be interesting isn't it !! LOL

All my camera's are 12V jobs - as I already have an OSD board which also runs on 12V I'll try it first - But that's now a LONG LONG way away ...
Once I get the blue OSD I'll start putting the Alien together with 4 ESCs and the new DYS motors -
Then I'll be using the 450 with the APM and Emax 4 in1 ( or QBrain 4in1) ( I'm getting an EMax programming card so I'll probably resurrect the Emax 4in1 ..)
But that's a LONG LONG way away ...
I just bought a new Epson A3 printer , inks and paper for this years photographic competition entries so I'm all out of spare Quad cash for a few months ...LOL
So off to film with the Phantom and playtime with the 450 for now ...
Thanks for all your help and advice guys ... Hope to catch up with you all in September face to face ... might have all 3 working by then eh !! LOL
Steve

Hi,

Just to be clear most of my cameras are 12V cameras but I don't run the 12V through the MinimOSD.  Check out my diagrams earlier (I'll dig out the specific post number on Sunday if you dont find them by then).  I do connect the GND though to avoid any ground issues, although if both items are using the same battery then it's all good to go without it.  If you plan to use two different batts (one for flying, one for camera stuff) then you must be careful if the grounds are different by more than 0.3V then it can fry the analogue chip.....

Will be good to see all of the flying things we've put together by then.  Good luck with the flying!!

Regards,

Chris

[Marschy]

Well this is going to be interesting isn't it !! LOL

All my camera's are 12V jobs - as I already have an OSD board which also runs on 12V I'll try it first - But that's now a LONG LONG way away ...
Once I get the blue OSD I'll start putting the Alien together with 4 ESCs and the new DYS motors -
Then I'll be using the 450 with the APM and Emax 4 in1 ( or QBrain 4in1) ( I'm getting an EMax programming card so I'll probably resurrect the Emax 4in1 ..)
But that's a LONG LONG way away ...
I just bought a new Epson A3 printer , inks and paper for this years photographic competition entries so I'm all out of spare Quad cash for a few months ...LOL
So off to film with the Phantom and playtime with the 450 for now ...
Thanks for all your help and advice guys ... Hope to catch up with you all in September face to face ... might have all 3 working by then eh !! LOL
Steve

Steve, now that you've flashed your Naza Lite with V2 firmware, the iOSD mini can be used.

[Mandrake]

I would have to get the other thing too wouldn't I ? BTU coz it has the sockets for iOSD and GPS ?? Is that right or does the mini have a GPS socket ? I'll have go look how its connected . Might be no use to me as I don't have iPad or iPhone ?