Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything

[Mandrake]

I've shortened it now to make it more stable - Its screwed to the pan of the scales which is fixed to the load sensor ( I guess ? ) anyway it sits straight up and when you fire up the motor with prop it exerts a positive or negative force on the scales - In my case above it showed a thrust of -446 gms ... (Lift)
So 4 motors could lift at maximum a bit under 1800 gms - My Alien is around 1650 gms so there is not enough room for moving around - I need to get the thrust up to about 800-900 gms per motor I reckon and then I will defy gravity !! LOL . I'll try this with 10" props and see how that goes otherwise I'll need to upsize the motors ...

[CBRK]

I've shortened it now to make it more stable - Its screwed to the pan of the scales which is fixed to the load sensor ( I guess ? ) anyway it sits straight up and when you fire up the motor with prop it exerts a positive or negative force on the scales - In my case above it showed a thrust of -446 gms ... (Lift)
So 4 motors could lift at maximum a bit under 1800 gms - My Alien is around 1650 gms so there is not enough room for moving around - I need to get the thrust up to about 800-900 gms per motor I reckon and then I will defy gravity !! LOL . I'll try this with 10" props and see how that goes otherwise I'll need to upsize the motors ...

Hi Steve,

You'll need far more lift than what you currently have.  If you can get to the 800g x 4 giving you 3.2 Kg it should give you enough to get off the ground and allow for reasonable maneuvers.  I agree try different prop combos to see if you can get enough lift but it seems low for those motors.

Are you sure about that figure you've got?  Just that on a 3s for a 10x4.7 you should be getting 800g of thrust or +/- 50 grams.  For 9x4.7's you should be get around 750g of thrust.  This is assuming you are still using the multistar 2212's.

I've got some 11" props to test out for the tricopter to see if I get better lift results.

I currently think I've got just under 3kg of lift on it and it's AUW is around 1.2kg (with the big battery).  Once I add the gimbal mount and camera I expect that to go up another 300g, so I figure I'll need the 11" props to give me enough lift to get me out of the oh bugger moments.

The mini quad has in theory 350g per motor, so that gives me 1.4kg with an AUW of 650 (with action camera - should go down another 30 g with the mobius instead of the action cam).

Will be great to actually confirm all my lift figures.  Guess it's another trip to bunnings to get some bits and bobs :-)

Grrr, no flying today due to being out till 4am on an SES job, so my perfect flying weather was gone before I even got up.... sigh.....

Chris

[Marschy]

I've shortened it now to make it more stable - Its screwed to the pan of the scales which is fixed to the load sensor ( I guess ? ) anyway it sits straight up and when you fire up the motor with prop it exerts a positive or negative force on the scales - In my case above it showed a thrust of -446 gms ... (Lift)
So 4 motors could lift at maximum a bit under 1800 gms - My Alien is around 1650 gms so there is not enough room for moving around - I need to get the thrust up to about 800-900 gms per motor I reckon and then I will defy gravity !! LOL . I'll try this with 10" props and see how that goes otherwise I'll need to upsize the motors ...

Have you considered buying a 4 cell battery and compatible ESC (HK Blueseries which can take 4S) and giving that a go. You may get all the thrust you need without changing motors. Those motors are rated for 4S.

[Mandrake]

I should get the 10" 1045 props next week so I'll test them ... I'm using the Chinese MX2212s for the tests and there seems to be some inherent faults in the setup -- Motors get to max revs and then surge and drop out and surge again - If I run them at about 25% they motor along as normal - I'm also using a servo tester for the throttle dunno if that makes a difference or not  -- I didn't want to remove one of the multistars from the Alien as I have finally got it all in place neat and tidy ... I'm also using the Emax 4in1 as the ESC - will probably buy 5 ESCs soon and have one permanently mounted on the motor test bed instead of the Emax 4in1 and have 4 over for the next quad ...
( Bought 200 black cable ties today !! $2 Bargain )

[CBRK]

I should get the 10" 1045 props next week so I'll test them ... I'm using the Chinese MX2212s for the tests and there seems to be some inherent faults in the setup -- Motors get to max revs and then surge and drop out and surge again - If I run them at about 25% they motor along as normal - I'm also using a servo tester for the throttle dunno if that makes a difference or not  -- I didn't want to remove one of the multistars from the Alien as I have finally got it all in place neat and tidy ... I'm also using the Emax 4in1 as the ESC - will probably buy 5 ESCs soon and have one permanently mounted on the motor test bed instead of the Emax 4in1 and have 4 over for the next quad ...
( Bought 200 black cable ties today !! $2 Bargain )

Hi,

When you say 100% what PWM sig is the servo tester putting out for that?  Only thing I'd recommend is that you do an ESC calibrate on it to ensure the ESC knows what the max and min level is.  Its possible that at 100% on the servo tester you are getting 110% and that is causing issues for the motor.

If the surging kicks in before 75% I'd say you have some defective motors otherwise the calibrate should fix it.

I had a quick look at MX2212's and they all seem to say that they put out much higher levels of thrust, for just about any prop config (seems they'll spin 14" props which is impressive).  See how the 10" goes but I suspect there is another issue at hand.

I'd double check that MX2212 can do 4S from what I see they are rated to 3S only.  This is based upon the MX2212's that I could find out there, so I could be wrong on the MX2212's you have.

I've switched to buying cable ties in bags of 500.... Very sad.  Good price for 200.

Chris

[Marschy]

Don't calibrate the ESC's using a servo tester. You have to do a factory reset of the ESC's using a programming card to get the lower and upper limits of your transmitter throttle to be recognised again because the PWM limits are different. I found this out the hard way. The PWM limits on the servo tester are typically higher and lower than your transmitter throttle limits, so when you try to calibrate with your transmitter, the ESC doesn't recognise that you have gone into calibrate mode.

[Mandrake]

Getting into calibrate mode seems to be quite difficult for the Emax 4in1 . I did the QBrain in no time at all . So unless I  can successfully work out the Chinglish how to then this ESC will stay on the testing tower . Once my new Tx battery gets here I will try a calibration with the Radiolink. I think its about time I took the Phantom out for a fly.

[Crisp Image]

My APM arrived today! Will have to do some reading tonight.
Chris, you said something about a wiring diagram for the minim OSD to ensure magic smoke does not escape.
When setting the apm up can it get power from the USB port or do I need to power through the power module?
If I don't work tomorrow I think it might be time to have a play.
Regards
Crispy


Sent using fat fingers on the iPad thingy

[Marschy]

My APM arrived today! Will have to do some reading tonight.
Chris, you said something about a wiring diagram for the minim OSD to ensure magic smoke does not escape.
When setting the apm up can it get power from the USB port or do I need to power through the power module?
If I don't work tomorrow I think it might be time to have a play.
Regards
Crispy


Sent using fat fingers on the iPad thingy

APM can be powered by the USB and GPS as well. If you run the motor test, you must connect the flight battery. Only applicable for firmware 3.1.5 as 3.2 firmware you can't do motor test anymore.

minimOSD wiring instructions can be found here.

http://copter.ardupilot.com/wiki/common-minim-osd-quick-installation-guide/

but there are other ways of doing this as well. I only run the video cable only to and from the minimOSD and power the whole board using 5 volts and the video transmitter and camera share a common filtered power supply.

[yogi]

What TX's are people using ? I finished off my Taranis Plus build a month ago and now an learning to programme it all up Will have to post a pic up as it's very sexy

yogi

[CBRK]

My APM arrived today! Will have to do some reading tonight.
Chris, you said something about a wiring diagram for the minim OSD to ensure magic smoke does not escape.
When setting the apm up can it get power from the USB port or do I need to power through the power module?
If I don't work tomorrow I think it might be time to have a play.
Regards
Crispy


Sent using fat fingers on the iPad thingy

Hi Crispy,

I have converted the minimOSD to 5V so you solder the pads on both sides.

Here is the diagram I use:

Diagrams voltage tolerance for the camera should be 7V to 15V.  I also use a 5V camera on my Tri and have a UBEC mounted between the camera and the power supply.

This is the wiring harness I use, JR servo female connect to the battery (3s) and to the camera, the normal JR servo connectors connect to the minim.  Note that no + wires are connected on the analogue side of the minimOSD:



If you have any questions feel free to ask.

You can connect the APM from either of them, avoid doing both at the same time though.  I think the older versions had an issue where it took out the voltage regulator havent been game enough to try it on a newer board :-)  I rarely connect via the USB port, only really for logs, otherwise I plug a battery in and use the telemetry link.

I also recommend taking your time with the APM, it is straight forward just make sure you follow all the steps and dont skip any even it seems like it will get you in the air sooner.  Highly recommend that you dont disable any of the PreArm checks, if there is an issue then work through it, they are there for a good reason.

Only one I monkey with is the GPS HDOP check, I've changed it to 350 on the Mini Quad as it's GPS seems to be less sensitive than my others.  I will likely change it back once I've remounted everything (and switched to a slightly bigger GPS unit).  My Tricopter I have done the reverse I have it's HDOP set to 160 (so 1.6) so I have to have a bloody good position lock to arm.  I think the default is 250 (so HDOP of 2.5) which is pretty good.

Regards,

Chris

[CBRK]

Getting into calibrate mode seems to be quite difficult for the Emax 4in1 . I did the QBrain in no time at all . So unless I  can successfully work out the Chinglish how to then this ESC will stay on the testing tower . Once my new Tx battery gets here I will try a calibration with the Radiolink. I think its about time I took the Phantom out for a fly.

Hi,

Given what Mark said, I'd suggest you run the thrust tester via a receiver to be sure you aren't sending a really high PWM.  If your servo tester has a way of displaying what the output is then just keep within 900-2100 and you should be fine if you can get it into calibrate mode.

Hope you had fun flying today, I did 30 mins before pulling apart the MiniQuad to fit the MiniAPM (still working on it).

Chris

[CBRK]

What TX's are people using ? I finished off my Taranis Plus build a month ago and now an learning to programme it all up Will have to post a pic up as it's very sexy

yogi

Hi Yogi,

I'm using the Turnigy 9XR, I also have a 9X.

I have a 36Mhz Futaba but I havent used it in 15+ years.....

I'm sure it is very sexy.....

Chris

[Marschy]

This method works as well. Pity you didn't post your question before lunch. I have just finished wiring up the X-mode alien telemetry/FPV camera. I could have got a photo of my wiring harness. I use shielded cable on the video in/out links. The shielding is joined between the two video cables and connected to the negative side of the power supply after the capacitor.

[CBRK]

This method works as well. Pity you didn't post your question before lunch. I have just finished wiring up the X-mode alien telemetry/FPV camera. I could have got a photo of my wiring harness. I use shielded cable on the video in/out links. The shielding is joined between the two video cables and connected to the negative side of the power supply after the capacitor.

Agree it will work, but I like to tie in the GND wires to be sure.  If you remember earlier I killed a board because the GND's from two different battery's were slightly different. This was before I did the 5V conversion though....  What you dont have a spare of your harness :-) That pic is of my spare harness.

Benefit of what I had earlier is that you can use two different batteries and the GND's will be bonded together.  I may do this again on the tricopter.

I'm also yet to face any major interference on the video line from any of the other electronics and I use unshielded wire.  Only time I get the fuzzies, is when I dont have LOS of the model, so it's more a radio link issue than a video quality issue.

Chris

[Marschy]

Spare harness, you've got too much bloody time on your hands. LOL.

I tend to over engineer, which has a tendency to cause things like building quadcopters to take forever.

[Mandrake]

Hi,

Given what Mark said, I'd suggest you run the thrust tester via a receiver to be sure you aren't sending a really high PWM.  If your servo tester has a way of displaying what the output is then just keep within 900-2100 and you should be fine if you can get it into calibrate mode.

Hope you had fun flying today, I did 30 mins before pulling apart the MiniQuad to fit the MiniAPM (still working on it).

Chris

No fly day AGAIN !!!!! Grrrr --- MIL is here and I am the designated driver to take them to the shops ....

Managed to smash my shed window today - door got pushed by some wind and I had left the keys in the lock and the key went through the glass !!! Went to Bunnings and got Acrylic sheet - fitted that - looks good $52 ... O'Brien wanted $261 to supply and fit a 57 x 84 cm glass pane !!! 
At least my Quad hangar / shed is secure again ... LOL ..
Did manage to get the Alien off the deck under restraint but its still not going up straight - leans to Port a bit - so I am still not balanced in the ESC department .. 1045 props got me off the ground which is an achievement ... Now i have to learn how to calibrate / balance the ESC and motors ... Then I can have a go untethered ....

One little concern is the LED seems to go into rapid red blink fairly quickly which in Naza speak is low voltage warning -- I think I might have a bad solder joint in the main power cables - Do you think that could be why ?? Battery voltage at 11.9 and low voltage warning is set for 10.8 volts ... So I'm losing a volt between battery and Naza - dodgy solder joint ??
Cheers
Steve

[CBRK]

No fly day AGAIN !!!!! Grrrr --- MIL is here and I am the designated driver to take them to the shops ....

Managed to smash my shed window today - door got pushed by some wind and I had left the keys in the lock and the key went through the glass !!! Went to Bunnings and got Acrylic sheet - fitted that - looks good $52 ... O'Brien wanted $261 to supply and fit a 57 x 84 cm glass pane !!! 
At least my Quad hangar / shed is secure again ... LOL ..
Did manage to get the Alien off the deck under restraint but its still not going up straight - leans to Port a bit - so I am still not balanced in the ESC department .. 1045 props got me off the ground which is an achievement ... Now i have to learn how to calibrate / balance the ESC and motors ... Then I can have a go untethered ....

One little concern is the LED seems to go into rapid red blink fairly quickly which in Naza speak is low voltage warning -- I think I might have a bad solder joint in the main power cables - Do you think that could be why ?? Battery voltage at 11.9 and low voltage warning is set for 10.8 volts ... So I'm losing a volt between battery and Naza - dodgy solder joint ??
Cheers
Steve

Hi Steve,

That sounds like a crap day.....  Glass is crazy expensive these days.  Good solution to the problem, hopefully the week gets better.

I'd be looking at all the solder joints on your main harness.  I don't know much about the DJI products but I take it you are using the VU? And it is reporting the low voltage?  I assume that reading is powered up and at rest?  If that is the case a 1V drop over such a small distance is not good, it will only get worse as the current increases.

If it's while under power (while pulling lots of amps) then I wouldn't be so concerned, as I draw 30 amps on the Mini Quad I drop around .6 to 1V.  I land when the battery is down to 10.5 but it bounces back to 11.3 within a few seconds.

I'd check all solder joints before the VU.  If possible can you wack a multimeter on the input to the VU?

Regards,

Chris

[Marschy]

What battery are you using Steve? People on rcgroups are reporting serious voltage sag when under load on the zippy compact batteries and losing volts very quickly.

[Mandrake]

It seems to happen on them all - Original DJI 2200 , 2500 , 2700 and the 4500 ... I'd say its probably one of my crappy solder joins ... I'll rewire the main power and use bullet connectors if and where necessary ...
Can't really explain the red blinky LED otherwise - I have a battery voltage display/alarm on the leg and it shows 11.9 and the Naza is blinking red which means the Naza is seeing 10.8 or less ..
MIL goes home tomorrow so I can get stuck into all sorts of things from Wednesday on ... happy happy happy dance ...
Got my FPV camera tilt/pan doohicky today as well so I'll want to play with it - which means I'll have to get the Radiolink 10 channel job up and running ...
So much to do ... LOL.

I think this is starting out to be a year of potential ripoffs --
1 - Wife's watch new battery was quoted $39.90 !!
2 - Went to Isuzu to check swapover price for a Mux .. $47900 was price quoted - They would accept my Dmax and $20000 as a swap ..
3 - The shed glass $261 to supply and fit $10 worth of chinese float glass ...

That's 3 so maybe its over now LOL

Back to Quadcoptering now sorry bitch over ...

[Crisp Image]

Well I have had some time to play.
So far I can't calibrate my ESC I have managed to get into ESC cal mode, to the TX calibration but every time I plug in the ESCs just emit a constant short tone. I need to connect my telemetry set so I can do settings as the GPS and compass needs to be calibrated and I cant do that with the usb plugged in as it is on the lid of my container. With the lid on I cant get to the usb port.
The GPS did show where I am on MP so something is working.
I had to put it all away as I was getting frustrated with it (and so was my wife with the beeping)
I also wanted to set up my Turgigy X9 and get the f mode switch to operate on ch 5 but cant seem to do that.
More reading for me! More internet, youtube and forum pages.
At least there has been no magic smoke (yet)
Regards
Crispy

[Marschy]

every time I plug in the ESCs just emit a constant short tone

That suggests the ESC is not connected to the receiver correctly. Is the receiver powered on correctly?

[CBRK]

That suggests the ESC is not connected to the receiver correctly. Is the receiver powered on correctly?

Hi Crispy,

Are the ESC's plugged into the receiver or into the APM?

If they are in the APM try doing the calibration through it but not all ESC's like it, if they dont seem to switch to a direct connection via the receiver.

I was lucky with my tricopter they seemed to like it.  There are benefits to doing it through the APM in that all will receive the same reading, as where through the receiver there must be some minor differences.

Regards,

Chris

[CBRK]

Mini Quad V2 is now complete, ready for flight testing!!!

Key changes from V1:

- Removed full sized APM and replaced with Mini APM (hopefully it wont have the same issues with the baro - looks like I need to erase the EEPROM on the fullsize to fix that issue).
- Removed Action Cam and replaced with Mobius Camera (will loose a bit of video quality but will gain in much less wind resistance)
- Moved the Vtx to inside the frame


It now only has the battery below, the GPS receiver, the Mobius and the Vtx antenna outside of the frame.  So it should be resilient in the event of a crash.  Having said that V1 was pretty good I had a number of high speed low alt roll overs and it was pretty good.

It should also be about 50g lighter.

Can't test it till tomorrow afternoon as I'm off to be assessed for 4WDing and that is if I get back in time.

One minor fix / change is the GPS receiver isnt covered in heatshrink for protection.  I didnt have any that fitted, I will be investing in some soon.

Pics:





Chris

[Marschy]

Back to work today after the Christmas break.

I have just finished a marathon quad copter build fortnight. I didn't get as much done as I wanted, but I completed the Alien560 and the X-mode Alien.

I finished the X-mode Alien last night, minus a few screws and cable ties. I just have to calibrate and tune, then fly. This is the second of the two Hobbyking pan-tilt servo gimbals that I have pinched the parts from to make a tilt gimbal. I have replaced the fibreglass frame with an aluminium one for tilt only and hooked the servo up to the APM so it tilts automatically.

Those Elites look sweet Chris.