Author Topic: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything  (Read 780299 times)

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Offline Mandrake

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #1075 on: December 26, 2014, 03:59:49 PM »
Its just twisted figure 8 loop chain - Weighs about 200 gms for those 4 pieces - They're about 50 cms long and by hooking the chain onto the cup hooks you can allow the Alien to hover at about 15 cm above the deck or as in the pic - keeping it to about 5 cms ... I've noticed the chain comes off the hook sometimes so it really needs a snap lock ( carabiner type ) just to make sure it doesn't let go one one side and tip over ... That could be ugly...
Will change it to an eyebolt with carabiner threaded through .. That will be much safer ...
Have to wait till Sunday now to get the calibration done - Will switch Tx/Rx and Emax for Q Brain ... More soldering ... LOL
Going back to basics - sort of ...

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #1076 on: December 27, 2014, 06:39:34 AM »
Can you get some closer photos of your Alien Steve?

Offline Mandrake

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #1077 on: December 27, 2014, 06:47:13 AM »
Yep no problems.. Will go to shed after brekky.
Going back to basics - sort of ...

Offline Mandrake

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #1078 on: December 27, 2014, 07:56:14 AM »
Here ya go .. Wiring harness for PMU,FPV , gimbal and voltage alarm.

front showing both cameras..nearly .

side showing voltage alarm

rear showing battery in its cradle.

motor and prop setup.

Going back to basics - sort of ...

Marschy

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #1079 on: December 27, 2014, 04:35:45 PM »
Looking great Steve, great frame to play with.

I've been concreting around a friends house, dead beat. I am trying to tune the Goodluckbuy gimbal controller using the Alexmos 2.1 null firmware and my brain is just not thinking well enough to be bothered working it out. I wonder if you could possibly tell me what your PID's are for your gimbal Steve?

Cheers, Mark

Marschy

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #1080 on: December 27, 2014, 04:42:08 PM »
Hello Steve,

Does your new camera have live video out via USB or miniHDMI?

Cheers, Mark

Offline Mandrake

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #1081 on: December 27, 2014, 05:40:48 PM »
PIDs - Now thats a term i'm not familiar with -- My settings in naza are 0 - straight ahead , 25 for about 10 degrees down , 90 for about 85 degrees down ,, That's what you want ??? I'm using the

rotating knob on the Devo 7 via Aux2 / F1 on Naza for pitch control .. I'll check those numbers tomorrow too but I think they are about right ..

camera has USB and HDMI sockets but I haven't tried for FPV output with it as my other camera does that and will have the mini OSD board soon ..I have a DVR on the other end of the FPV

so hopefully I can record each flight with details ... ( Just in case it decides to go flyabout on me ... ) ... I might be able to test it over the next coupla days but I really want to get the Alien hovering

first of all...Bought 4 nice carabiner clips today for the tether bench .. So will swap out the Emax tomorrow and get the motors calibrated ...
Going back to basics - sort of ...

Offline CBRK

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #1082 on: December 28, 2014, 07:18:45 PM »


PIDs - Now thats a term i'm not familiar with -- My settings in naza are 0 - straight ahead , 25 for about 10 degrees down , 90 for about 85 degrees down ,, That's what you want ???


PID's are the configuable inputs, it determines how much it applies to the control surfaces for leveling and other functions.  Its interesting to read up on it.

Chris
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Offline Mandrake

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #1083 on: December 28, 2014, 07:24:48 PM »
What I need to read up on is lift / power and thrust curves ... I'm having a LOT of trouble getting the Alien off the deck ...

When the motors run they seem to reach maximum screaming level at about 70% of throttle and that doesn't change when pushing the stick to 100% ...

I'm waiting on some 10" props and hopefully that will give me a bit more umphh to get off the ground ... Got my eye on 12" ones too but they will put a lot of

down draft on the corners of the upper deck so I may not gain anything ???  So at the moment the Alien is grounded ... LOL ...
Going back to basics - sort of ...

Marschy

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #1084 on: December 29, 2014, 07:16:18 AM »
What I need to read up on is lift / power and thrust curves ... I'm having a LOT of trouble getting the Alien off the deck ...

When the motors run they seem to reach maximum screaming level at about 70% of throttle and that doesn't change when pushing the stick to 100% ...

I'm waiting on some 10" props and hopefully that will give me a bit more umphh to get off the ground ... Got my eye on 12" ones too but they will put a lot of

down draft on the corners of the upper deck so I may not gain anything ???  So at the moment the Alien is grounded ... LOL ...
Hello Steve,

Although I did make the comment that the Multistar motors were good, which they are, you had unfortunately already purchased them. But if you check the recommendations on the Alien 560 frame listing on Hobbyking, they recommend a motor of 2820 to 3110 size and a prop size of 11 inches on a 4S setup. Most of the 'Multirotor' motors in that range are 600kv to 800kv.

The multistar's you have purchased will only swing a 10 inch prop maximum thrust of 554g on 3S.

I'm not sure of my all up weight yet, I'll find out today, but the general rule of thumb is to aim for a 2:1 thrust over weight ratio or better. I know my motors are rated at a maximum of 1200g on a 5S setup with 10 inch props, or 1020g/thrust on a 4S setup with 11 inch props. So as long as I keep the weight close to 2kg I should be good on a 4 cell setup.

The best figures I can find for the multistar motors is 10 inch props on a 3 cell setup with only around 554 grams of thrust. So if you figure on around 2kg AUW your thrust to weight ratio is undercooked @ 1.1:1.

Cheers, Marschy

Offline Mandrake

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #1085 on: December 29, 2014, 07:26:43 AM »
Thanks for the info - I was a bit hasty -  I'm going to try out my 3 bladers today see if the extra blade will get it off the deck .. Also have to pick up a parcel - could be my 10" props ..

Otherwise i'll have to get bigger motors ....

More expense !! LOL
Going back to basics - sort of ...

Marschy

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #1086 on: December 29, 2014, 07:51:18 AM »
Figure on around $25-$40US per motor. Hobbyking have just released a whole new range of Quanum motors manufactured by DYS. They look pretty good, but you will need to go looking for the thrust/power charts for this motor. This Quanum MT3510 700kv motor looks pretty good but I have no idea of the power these things put out. This one looks good as well Quanum MT3508 700kv motor

My best advise is read what other people are using.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2115146

These are my motors (note you do not have to upgrade the motor mounts for these to fit the stock Alien 560 motor mounts).

EMAX MT 3506-650KV

The MT series of motors are clones or close to the kv ratings and motor sizes of the Tiger motor equivalents which you wont get any change out of a $50 note.

I am going to get a new battery for my scales today to get my AUW and start doing some static testing with my motors today.

The NTM propdrive 2830 800kv from Hobbyking is a suitable motor, which is what I originally purchased to put on my 560, but the motors are very thirsty at 234 watts at 1050g using a 9x6 prop on a 4S setup, compared to 179 watts at 1020g with an 11 inch prop on a 4S setup for my Emax motors. The pancake motors around the 550-750kv are very popular for this frame.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2014, 08:00:29 AM by Marschy »

Marschy

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #1087 on: December 30, 2014, 01:08:52 PM »
The problem with building and rebuilding a number of quads at the same time is when something arrives in the mail for one of the other quads you are working on you tend to get distracted into doing more work on the quad that the parts just arrived for.

The tilt gimbal for my mini quad has turned out pretty well.

I bought a Hobbyking pan-tilt servo gimbal and made a bracket out of aluminium to suit the layout of the mini quad. I now need to get some new spacers as the camera is too big to fit between the upper and lower frame plates

Offline CBRK

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #1088 on: December 30, 2014, 10:04:04 PM »
The problem with building and rebuilding a number of quads at the same time is when something arrives in the mail for one of the other quads you are working on you tend to get distracted into doing more work on the quad that the parts just arrived for.

The tilt gimbal for my mini quad has turned out pretty well.

I bought a Hobbyking pan-tilt servo gimbal and made a bracket out of aluminium to suit the layout of the mini quad. I now need to get some new spacers as the camera is too big to fit between the upper and lower frame plates

I know the feeling.  It looks good ( I have two of these kits but I'm yet to fit one), are you sure you want the weight of the tilt frame on the mini?  I've set my FPV camera at a slight upwards angle as a compromise (of at speed and hovering).

I've arrived back home and holy hell I have a number of parcels, it'll take me days (or weeks) to fit all the items I've got.

Chris



« Last Edit: December 30, 2014, 10:06:32 PM by CBRK »
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Marschy

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #1089 on: December 30, 2014, 10:15:15 PM »
I know the feeling.  It looks good ( I have two of these kits but I'm yet to fit one), are you sure you want the weight of the tilt frame on the mini?  I've set my FPV camera at a slight upwards angle as a compromise (of at speed and hovering).

I've arrived back home and holy hell I have a number of parcels, it'll take me days (or weeks) to fit all the items I've got.

Chris
G'day Chris,

Happy days, the parcels should keep you busy.

I'm not going to put an in flight camera on the mini quad. It's going to be purely FPV, so the weight of the gimbal should be OK.

I think my wife has started getting wise about how much this hobby is costing. I received the Gemfan props in the mail this morning and she made a comment about the number of parcels that have arrived since she and I have been on holiday.

I'm getting stuck into the X-mode Alien at the moment. Still waiting on parts for the mini quad. Hopefully the missus will be back at work by then.  ;D

The programming board for the blue series ESC's was mailed today and is now at the mercy of Auspost.

Cheers, Mark

Offline CBRK

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #1090 on: December 31, 2014, 06:37:52 PM »
G'day Chris,

Happy days, the parcels should keep you busy.

I'm not going to put an in flight camera on the mini quad. It's going to be purely FPV, so the weight of the gimbal should be OK.

I think my wife has started getting wise about how much this hobby is costing. I received the Gemfan props in the mail this morning and she made a comment about the number of parcels that have arrived since she and I have been on holiday.

I'm getting stuck into the X-mode Alien at the moment. Still waiting on parts for the mini quad. Hopefully the missus will be back at work by then.  ;D

The programming board for the blue series ESC's was mailed today and is now at the mercy of Auspost.

Cheers, Mark

On the mount, sounds like a good idea.  Are you saving any flight footage in air or only on the ground feed?

Thanks for misordering :-)    Will be nice to easily change direction via the programming card, I might even drop the connectors to help save some grams :-)  I had a freebie from HK yesterday, they put in some T connector adapter, I'll post a pic later on and if I've got no use I'll see if anyone would like them (its a 2 pack of something....).  I'm wishing that they'd thrown in something from the wishlist instead, oh well....

My wife was having a good look at my study / building room today while I was tinkering and I think she is on the same path as yours.....  She returns to work on the 5th Jan.....

I had a play with the Mini APM today, I have it taking in the PPM signal, the GPS seems to be working, the power module seems to be working too but I have an issue with the motor output.  Wondering if you have gotten to this stage with the miniAPM?

The one test ESC I have doesn't sing when I hook it up, it does if I bypass the ESC and go direct to the receive (in PWM mode).  I am definitely getting a PPM signal for the throttle....  I've checked the ESC is getting power (reading same as battery).  I thought I only needed to wire in the signal wire of the ESC as the ESC has ground return path via it's powered line.  I've checked that the +5V line on the miniAPM (motor output) is showing 5.27V so all good there.  I've double checked output signal line to make sure I've got the right one plugged in.  I've checked it with wiring in the GND line too just in case.  I only have the 1 ESC plugged in as it's my spare, I thought it worked if you only had one plugged in?

If I don't suss it out by tomorrow night I'll post up a pic to see if anyone can work out what I've done wrong.....

New to do list :-) or :-( not sure which yet....

- Get mini APM working so I can reclaim my full size APM, return my normal GPS to the Tricopter and lighten the mini Quad.
- Buy can of CorrosionX (that is some great stuff - will waterproof most electronics - absolutely magic stuff - wish I ordered it before I bought the liquid electrical tape)
- Mount the brushless gimbal mount onto the Tricopter and move FPV camera.
- Mount sonar onto Tricopter
- Mount Action Cam to new gimbal and have fun
- Mount new mobius onto the miniQuad
- Change power connectors to the lipo connectors
- Find my old IXUS HS115 and load CHDK - connect to APM and mount to Tricopter (for aerial mapping)
- Change the minimOSD's to 5V (2 new ones plus the 1 on the Tri)
- Desolder the 2 broken MinimOSD's and mount new chips
- Plus more I'm sure....

And in between each of those get lots of flying in.  I managed to get in nearly 30mins of flying up at QLD, so my total is just under 1 hour on the mini Quad.  I did have one moment of oh-oh while up there, in ALTHOLD mode it shot up vertically and I was able to return to normal flight by switching back to stabilise mode (after going inverted for a split second) - lucky save on my part or maybe I can call it skill by now :-).

Chris
« Last Edit: December 31, 2014, 10:37:41 PM by CBRK »
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Offline Mandrake

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #1091 on: December 31, 2014, 07:06:22 PM »
Hey guys - I got the 8mm lenses today - here's a compare pic for 3.6 mm and 8mm ...
Quality is crap but its only for FPV ...
Going back to basics - sort of ...

Offline CBRK

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #1092 on: January 01, 2015, 08:02:15 AM »
Hey guys - I got the 8mm lenses today - here's a compare pic for 3.6 mm and 8mm ...
Quality is crap but its only for FPV ...


Hi Steve,

It looks well focused and good but when you try flying with it I think you'll find it too narrow. Let us know how you find it, i might be wrong ?. If you do try it turn the sensitivity as low as you can, i think it will help.

Chris
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Marschy

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #1093 on: January 01, 2015, 08:04:14 AM »
G'day Chris,

The flight footage will be recorded by the ground station for the mini quad.

My computer room is chaos at the moment. The spare bed is covered with all things quadcopter, but should be back to some semblance of normality by the time I go back to work.



I'm working on my X-mode Alien at the moment while I wait for parts for the mini quad, so I haven't done anything really with the miniAPM as yet.

The Canon Ixus 115 HS is a great little camera, it's what I take all of the pictures with that I post on myswag. Including these.

You obviously caught that Flite Test video about the CorrosionX. Pretty good stuff.

I got a few time consuming bits and pieces done yesterday. I did the Mavlink-OSD 5v conversion that I put a link to earlier from rcgroups. The soldering is very tricky, not something I would have contemplated a couple of weeks ago before I got my jewellers head mounted magnifying glasses. It made this job easier, but it's still a tricky soldering job. I used enamelled wire that I salvaged out of the burnt out Emax motor. There is another wire that is not clear in this photo that runs from ground on the right hand side to ground on the video input side on the left. It's pretty thin wire, but should be up to the task. I also trimmed a heat sink from one of my earlier ESC failures and made a heat sink for the video and atmel chips on the Mavlink-OSD.





I also mounted the LV-EZ4 sonar onto the X-mode Alien. It has silicon isolation mounts that I scavanged from a hard disk drive. Plus the filters recommended by Maxbotics. I'm keen to see how well this one goes. I have had it for a while but not put it to use. Interesting that a lot of these cheap frames from China have provision in the frame for the SR04 sonar. No good for the Maxbotics sonars, but at least they provide an area where you can mount them with a bit of modification.


Marschy

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #1094 on: January 01, 2015, 08:10:10 AM »
Hey guys - I got the 8mm lenses today - here's a compare pic for 3.6 mm and 8mm ...
Quality is crap but its only for FPV ...
I'll post up some photos of the difference between 2.1, 2.5, 2.8 and 3.6 for comparison today. The 2.1 lens that I bought separately is terrible. I am going to compare it to the 2.1 lens that came with the camera that I ordered at the same time, which is quite different in appearance.

Offline PluckA

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #1095 on: January 01, 2015, 09:29:01 AM »
Been following along the journey reading you guys post and yes hooked another person. I used to fly fixed wing for about 10 years a long time ago. Been looking at buying a bit of stuff from hobby king. Do you guys buy mainly from the Australian warehouse or international. Thinking freight might kill you buy from the international one.


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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #1096 on: January 01, 2015, 09:36:52 AM »
Hi PluckA
Welcome to the madness. I have used both local and international from HK depenfing where stock is. The freight id not too bad on smaller items but for bigger stuff it hits. Just shop around for what you want. Some of the aussie suppliers charge top dollar for delivery.
Regards
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Marschy

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #1097 on: January 01, 2015, 09:40:22 AM »
Howdy PluckA,

The international warehouse is in Hong Kong, so you aren't paying the biohazard tax that is added to international freight out of the US which is a killer for us here in Aus who want some of the cool stuff they sell that the shipping makes unaffordable.

You order from the warehouse where stock is mostly as Crispy has already said. You cannot order from other warehouses other than Aus and International, batteries only from Aus and you cannot mix warehouses on one order. If you order from the Aus warehouse, the express shipping will usually arrive in about 3-4 days and is surprisingly reasonably priced (for a bloody change). CouriersPlease is their Australian warehouse express carrier and I haven't had an issue with nearly 40 orders from either of the Hobbyking warehouses.

Cheers, Marschy

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #1098 on: January 01, 2015, 11:56:48 AM »
I think I have found the problem with the el-cheapo APM power modules that came with the two flight controllers I purchased. I don't think there was a problem with the power modules at all, but the power module cables were the culprits.

The first one had heat shrink hiding a cut wire. Given I didn't put the heat shrink on there and all the other power module cables I have don't have any heat shrink on them, I can only assume this is how I received it.

The second is showing signs of overheating, whether by me being over exuberant with the heat gun or the wiring being inadequate, I don't know. Some of the wires are exposed, but I don't think they shorted out at any stage. The wiring is noticeably thinner than the Hobbyking power module cable.

One or the other of these cables is about to be used on the mini quad, but I will be replacing the wire with 24 AWG silicon wire and cut to length. This should take care of any overheating problem.

Offline CBRK

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #1099 on: January 01, 2015, 03:21:28 PM »
I think I have found the problem with the el-cheapo APM power modules that came with the two flight controllers I purchased. I don't think there was a problem with the power modules at all, but the power module cables were the culprits.

The first one had heat shrink hiding a cut wire. Given I didn't put the heat shrink on there and all the other power module cables I have don't have any heat shrink on them, I can only assume this is how I received it.

The second is showing signs of overheating, whether by me being over exuberant with the heat gun or the wiring being inadequate, I don't know. Some of the wires are exposed, but I don't think they shorted out at any stage. The wiring is noticeably thinner than the Hobbyking power module cable.

One or the other of these cables is about to be used on the mini quad, but I will be replacing the wire with 24 AWG silicon wire and cut to length. This should take care of any overheating problem.

Thats great news, I was wondering as I've got 2 non HK PM and both of those seem to give the same figures that the HK one does.  I was thinking that either I had good luck or you had bad luck.  Seems you had the bad luck  ;D

So you have some spare PM incase you break one now... Can never have to many spares.

Chris
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