Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything

[Marschy]

Almost finished the Alien560. Should be starting on the miniquad on Monday I reckon, looking forward to putting it together. I reckon I'll get a bit of time tomorrow to have a play with the miniAPM.

[Crisp Image]

Now I have done it!
I have hit the order button from HK for the APM kit.
Now to wait for it to arrive. I wounder how long it will take at this time of the year.
No hurry.
Hope to take my quad on the blue rag trip in a couple of weeks and if the wind is not blowing put her up on the top for some top video.
Regards
Crispy

[Marschy]

Now I have done it!
I have hit the order button from HK for the APM kit.
Now to wait for it to arrive. I wounder how long it will take at this time of the year.
No hurry.
Hope to take my quad on the blue rag trip in a couple of weeks and if the wind is not blowing put her up on the top for some top video.
Regards
Crispy

Probably 2-3 weeks to deliver if snail mail. Things should be getting less hectic by the time it hits Australia so it should clear customs quickly.

[Mandrake]

I am getting a little concerned about my Alien's weight - Already over 1600 gms with motors still to go on .... So looking at 1750 gms fully loaded that's with a very heavy 4500mah 385 gm battery.
How do you find out about lift / thrust / power of the motors ?

[Crisp Image]

My DJI quad comes in at 1996gm ready to fly.
So 1750 is ok.
I would like to shed some more weight and if I ditched the crab landing gear I could. However I have an under slung gimbal so need to have something to land on.
Although I have taken to catching it lately so in theory I could take off from a box and catch it on return. The reason I catch it is so I don't fill the thing up with sand or dirt on landing.
Regards
Crispy


Sent using fat fingers on the iPad thingy

[Crisp Image]

Ok next question.
Where do I get the software interface for the apm 2.7?
I have looked around and can't find it on the web.
A link would help me out so I can research stuff before I get the new FC hopefully I can get some understanding without the magic smoke!
Regards
Crispy


Sent using fat fingers on the iPad thingy

[CBRK]

I am getting a little concerned about my Alien's weight - Already over 1600 gms with motors still to go on .... So looking at 1750 gms fully loaded that's with a very heavy 4500mah 385 gm battery.
How do you find out about lift / thrust / power of the motors ?

You could use ecalc (http://www.ecalc.ch/) or if the manufacturer may have the info.  What motors and props are you using?

I'm guessing this is a 4s rig as my 5000mah 3s batteries are only 280-300g.

[Marschy]

Go to the downloads section and download mission planner

http://copter.ardupilot.com/

This is the go to web site for all stuff APM

[CBRK]

Where do I get the software interface for the apm 2.7?

Mission Planner is the software you'll need
http://ardupilot.com/downloads/?did=82

Some important to avoid magic smoke link:
http://copter.ardupilot.com/wiki/table-of-contents/

Regards,

Chris

[Marschy]

When it comes to doing your minimOSD, Chris or I can help you out. REALLY REALLY easy to get magic smoke.

Also get a FTDI programmer for loading the firmware on the minimOSD, or you can use your USBasp programmer to fix the bootstrapper and reload the firmware as well.

You can have your eye's gouged by Jaycar for one

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=XC4241

Or look around on the web for a cheaper option. Here you go, Hobbyking has a cheaper one. http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__24779__FTDI_Adapter_USB_Controller_5V.html

If you use your USBasp programmer you will need one of these cables that came with it and just put some pcb header pins in it. You don't need to solder anything onto the minimOSD that way. Again this is only if you need to reload the bootstrapper, which I have on a couple of occasions.

Also get the Arduino sofware. I think there is a link on the Arducopter website for that.

[Marschy]

This is where you are going to spend a lot of time when you first get your flight controller.

[Marschy]

Finally finished, well almost. I just have to level the motor mounts and its done.

Specs:
Flight Controller - Naza M V2
Motors - Emax MT3506 650kv
ESCs - Hobbyking Blue Series 30A
Receiver - OrangeRX R910 9 channel with dual R100 satellite receivers
Naza iOSD Mini
Naza BTU
Tarot T-2D Gimbal
Sony Effio-E 700TVL FPV camera
Tarot Motor mounts
11x4.7 carbon fibre props
Zippy 4000mAh 4S battery
GoTop 1080p HD camera

[Crisp Image]

Finally finished, well almost. I just have to level the motor mounts and its done.

Well get it done and go fly.
Can you post some profile pix too?
Spent some time reading about the APM.
Lots to do and read. Will be good when I have it on the bench to play.
Thanks for the links guys.
Regards
Crispy

[Marschy]

I don't want to fly it, it's too pretty. LOL.

I have to duck out this afternoon, so it will probably be tomorrow at this stage.

[Marschy]

Here are some profiles. I love the super clean look of this quad, thanks to a large degree to the dedicated ESC mounting positions, which leaves heaps of room in the frame to mount everything, including the gimbal rails.



I made a double decker battery/power module which is also another reason for the extra clear top deck. I am either going to get rid of, or lower the stand in the middle of the top plate.



I've hot glued the BTU and LED modules onto the rear legs, they should be OK there.



And I have some GR300 OrangeRX antennas that are about 290mm long, so I am going to move the receiver antenna which is hanging right next to the battery cable at the back of the quad by replacing it with a longer antenna.



I really like these motor mounts. Well thought out. The motor cables have three access holes on the carbon fibre plate. One at the front that you can see here that the motor wires are passing through, and two on the sides. You use the one the lines up best with the motor mounting bolt holes and your motor cables. The little bit of carbon fibre also give a little bit of protection to the cables if the arm comes in contact with the ground first and will probably save the cables from being cut more times than not than the stock mounts, time will tell at least.

Plus the carbon fibre plates have isolation rubber mounts onto the aluminium frame.

[CBRK]

Here are some profiles. I love the super clean look of this quad, thanks to a large degree to the dedicated ESC mounting positions, which leaves heaps of room in the frame to mount everything, including the gimbal rails.

Looking very nice, I'm sure it will fly as good as it looks too.

Nice clean OSD too.

[CBRK]

Got absolutely nothing done on the miniAPM today, grrrr.  On a plus it was an early Xmas lunch with the inlaws.  I did get a chance to fly (approx 16 mins of flight time) once I got home in some light unfortunately the wind was very gusty than earlier in the day.  I weighed it again on the kitchen scales, seems my other scales done do light weights very well, it comes in at 690g with battery.

I found out my GPS died in the crash yesterday.  Hmmm, I've tried some simple repairs, I get solid power but no GPS sats being found, so I think it's dead....  Off came the GPS on the Tri and onto the mini quad it went.

Wow, what a difference the wind makes to the 250 MiniQuad.  My tri would have handled the wind today with little notice, maybe the odd lateral push.  The mini quad was pushed all over the place, keeping a set alt was near impossible, was easy yesterday.  Lots of little wobbles as it struggled to keep itself level in unclean air, it was 4m up and it was like it was in ground effect.  To it's credit, all landings were soft (although there was one unplanned landing).  All my repairs appear to have held really well, still happy that I have a replacement frame but 2 sets of the blackout 250 clone on the way (2nd one is for spare parts, was cheaper than buying 4 spare arms).

GPS was moved to a direct mount on top of the quad (I don't want this one dying while I wait for the replacement which is on the way - I also have the miniAPM one but didnt want to hack at it's cables), this has meant that due to interference I'm getting no better than 2.5 HDOP with it sitting around 3.5-4.5, on the raised mount I was getting 1.6 with 2-2.5 being the norm.  Will look at moving the telemetry radio further away, hoping I dont have to move the FPV antenna any further away.  I tried a quick loiter mode and it started to veer to the right, so I terminated it after a few seconds, it didn't lock on like my Tri does (I had 9 sats at that time).  I think this is down to my high HDOP.  I also dont like out the APM sits on this mount, it's easy to get a slight lean on it, so I need to fix that before I go to QLD on Tuesday morning.

Due to the wobbles I think I do need to do the autotune.  I'll need to get it to hover in one place first, very sensitive to COG both forwards and backwards, but also to left and right.

Chris

[CBRK]

Well I worked out why I'm down to 8min flight times on the mini quad today, I attached my action cam and the added weight I think hasn't helped (I should have weighed it before I removed the action cam).  I've got a mobius on the way, the plan is to put it on instead and remove the other FPV cam.  Should help to lighten it up a bit.

According to the APM the gps lock was good for todays flight, so not sure about the consistent drift when I flicked it to loiter mode, will have to play some more with it later.

I'll move the action cam over to the Tri and put the action cam onto a gimbal mount (like the one on your alien Mark).  I'l have to set it up be upside down as I dont have the height like you do (although I could extend the landing gear.....)

Chris

[CBRK]

Can't autotrim be invoked by holding the throttle stick in the arm position for 15-20 seconds? Lemme check on the Arducopter site.

Edit: Yep, you don't need a channel to be assigned for autotrim.

http://copter.ardupilot.com/wiki/autotrim/

Just realised it was the auto trim link you sent as I now need to do an autotune after todays efforts (will test in stable wind before deciding to do it or not).  I was talking about the autotune option (http://copter.ardupilot.com/wiki/autotune/#How_to_invoke_AutoTune), seems we cant get to it with a 6 ch CPPM receiver signal.  Need to switch back to PWM mode to trick it into seeing ch 6's output to it's Ch 7 input.

Hoping I dont need to go through it.....

Why cant you auto tune through MP or droid planner.....

Chris

[Spartan]

Keep it simple on the FPV, get the mobius so you can use it for FPV and also for HD video's.  There are small adapters for around $5 to feed it to FPV.  Then you just need a 5.8 Ghz Tx ($30) and a Rx monitor ($100-150 - for 7" and 8 ch 5.8Ghz Rx).  I agree not cheap at all, I still fly primarily LOS but do the odd FPV run - still learning myself :-)  The monitor is much cheaper than goggles, plus you can switch between LOS and FPV easier.

Just noticed you are running 4s, you are right you might draw too much on full throttle.  Just remember the ESC's can do a burst mode to a larger current, if it's 18A then it should be able to keep small bursts to 25A.  You will find yourself typically well below max throttle.  On mine I draw about 18-20A from the three motors for hovering, and around 25-30A for harder maneuvers, I'm running 3s....

Your battery life is pretty good, I wouldn't push them to much further though you should be keeping 20% by the time you land.  How are you measuring your battery consumption?  I thought I was only using around 1800-1900 but once I started measuring it with the APM I found I was using far more than I thought.  If you are measuring on the battery charger, note that you'll have about 10% loss, so you are doing even better than you think.

Yeah I think I'm sold on the Mobius and will probably start out with something like you've suggested. I'll look into it more closely when the time comes because I'd rather buy something decent the first time than by something that barely does the job and just needs upgrading in 6 months anyway.

I just checked the power use on my charger so I should be ok I think. Although I will take off a couple of minutes for a safety margin because it won't be long before I start flying harder and chewing more juice.

I'm still undecided on whether to use the 10" props so I'll just stick with 8" for now to be safe I think.

Had my first damage today. I folded it up a couple of times for transporting in the car today and when I went to have a fly this afternoon the rh motor wouldn't fire up. I found the servo cable to the esc had been pinched between the arm and the frame but also the insulation has already rubbed through where that cable comes out the end of the boom inside the frame so I think it was possibly shorting out on the carbon fibre? I moved it around and can't get it to play up again, but now I don't trust it so I think I will pull it apart and solder on a new cable to the esc. I've rerouted all the other cables so they shouldn't pinch and also left a bit more slack in them so they can move around without chafing. It looks messier but it doesn't really matter as I've gone with function over form with this one anyway. Glad it failed on the ground not mid flight!

[Marschy]

Well, I must have more burnt braincells that I realised, but I not remember ordering 4 Blue Series ESC programming cards, 1 yes, 4 no. They came with the pan-tilt gimbal this morning from Hobbyking.

Does anyone want one, my stuffup, your win. It should fit in a regular business envelope, so how much is a stamp worth now? 3 on offer.

Merry Xmas to the first lucky 3, I'll pay for shipping and you can have one for nothing. I can't use all 4.

[CBRK]

Yeah I think I'm sold on the Mobius and will probably start out with something like you've suggested. I'll look into it more closely when the time comes because I'd rather buy something decent the first time than by something that barely does the job and just needs upgrading in 6 months anyway.

I just checked the power use on my charger so I should be ok I think. Although I will take off a couple of minutes for a safety margin because it won't be long before I start flying harder and chewing more juice.

I'm still undecided on whether to use the 10" props so I'll just stick with 8" for now to be safe I think.

Had my first damage today. I folded it up a couple of times for transporting in the car today and when I went to have a fly this afternoon the rh motor wouldn't fire up. I found the servo cable to the esc had been pinched between the arm and the frame but also the insulation has already rubbed through where that cable comes out the end of the boom inside the frame so I think it was possibly shorting out on the carbon fibre? I moved it around and can't get it to play up again, but now I don't trust it so I think I will pull it apart and solder on a new cable to the esc. I've rerouted all the other cables so they shouldn't pinch and also left a bit more slack in them so they can move around without chafing. It looks messier but it doesn't really matter as I've gone with function over form with this one anyway. Glad it failed on the ground not mid flight!

At least you picked that up on the ground, could have been bad if it had given out in flight.

With the cabling for my tri, all the wires are on the front facing part so that I avoid pinching wires.  Still a chance but I'm careful on each fold up.

Looks like your's mainly run through the booms?  Maybe consider some of the mesh to protect it from that in future?

Chris

[CBRK]

Well, I must have more burnt braincells that I realised, but I not remember ordering 4 Blue Series ESC programming cards, 1 yes, 4 no. They came with the pan-tilt gimbal this morning from Hobbyking.

Does anyone want one, my stuffup, your win. It should fit in a regular business envelope, so how much is a stamp worth now? 3 on offer.

Merry Xmas to the first lucky 3, I'll pay for shipping and you can have one for nothing. I can't use all 4.

You sure the next order that arrives wont be one blue ESC?  Like you switched the orders around?

Chris

[Marschy]

You sure the next order that arrives wont be one blue ESC?  Like you switched the orders around?

Chris

LOL

[Spartan]

At least you picked that up on the ground, could have been bad if it had given out in flight.

With the cabling for my tri, all the wires are on the front facing part so that I avoid pinching wires.  Still a chance but I'm careful on each fold up.

Looks like your's mainly run through the booms?  Maybe consider some of the mesh to protect it from that in future?

Chris

I think my OCD got the better of me. I was trying to make everything neat and tidy which meant I put a bit too much tension on some of the cabling, so when the arms folded it pulled and rubbed on the cables. I took it apart last night and soldered the new one on and flew it for a bit this morning and it all seems good.

Yeah the wiring runs through the booms which was something I liked about this particular tri but now I'm thinking it might come back to bite me - definitely have to look at mesh or something I think.

I stuffed all the power distribution into the front and the servo wires come out the back which means when the booms fold, the servo wires get pulled by the back edge of the end of the boom and the power wires get pushed by the front edge, so there is a bit of a sharpish edge rubbing on the wires.

I'll just avoid folding it as much as possible for now.