Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything

[Marschy]

Hello Spartan,

Try this.

In the mixer screen for channel 5, assign AIL to the SOURCE. This is the switch to the immediate right of your 3POS switch. To the 'Switch' value assign '!AIL'.

You can do this with any of the 2 way switches as follows

RUDD D/R
ELE D/R
GEAR
AIL D/R

See how you get on with that.

Cheers, Marschy

Edit: here's what your mixer screen should look like

[CBRK]

Well I got the maiden flight of the MiniQuad done today, I decided to use the front yard again.  I know bad idea from previous times, but this time it was all good.

Realised I had two of the motors spinning in the wrong direction (left side refused to go up, right side was lifting with ease).  Swapped over the motor inputs (thank god I used bullet connectors).

Total flight time was just on 10 mins used around 2000mah for that - was mainly hover and a bit of moving about in a 6mx10m area.

It was impacted by ground effect something savage, I almost terminated it as it was wobbling so much but I went up another 10cm and it disappeared, so at 20cm no impact, very stable.  Very fast on the controls, I used my tricopter Tx settings by default, will need to remove the limits on yaw as it was very docile.

Very happy with it, even worked in loiter mode.  I had to increase my HDOP check to 250 (so HDOP of 2.5) for me to arm, but once armed it never went above 2.....  In fact it stayed at 1.6 for most of the time.

Now to review the logs, update the Minim to use NTSC (getting annoying not seeing all the info) and post the video from the camera.

Will go for a 2nd flight this afternoon.

Chris

[CBRK]

Hello Spartan,

Try this.

In the mixer screen for channel 5, assign AIL to the SOURCE. This is the switch to the immediate right of your 3POS switch. To the 'Switch' value assign '!AIL'.

You can do this with any of the 2 way switches as follows

RUDD D/R
ELE D/R
GEAR
AIL D/R

See how you get on with that.

Cheers, Marschy

Edit: here's what your mixer screen should look like

I would have thought you would assign FULL as the source and have it switched off AIL switch?

[Marschy]

I would have thought you would assign FULL as the source and have it switched off AIL switch?

Yeah, I think you're right, it should the other way around. !AIL in source and AIL in Switch. So that way the default should be the low PWM value.

[CBRK]

Yeah, I think you're right, it should the other way around. !AIL in source and AIL in Switch. So that way the default should be the low PWM value.

I'd suggest using the Source FULL (it throws a full 2000PWM at it) and use the switch AIL.  That way there is no way it cant be full then you throw the switch (mines in the negative to reduce the PWM value to 900 when I hit the switch).  I use it for my safety override (to bring it back to stabilise mode).

Picture:


The last line (with a +100 instead of a -100) is the one I'd use, the others are there for the APM.

[Marschy]

I'd suggest using the Source FULL (it throws a full 2000PWM at it) and use the switch AIL.  That way there is no way it cant be full then you throw the switch.  I use it for my safety override (to bring it back to stabilise mode).

Picture:

It doesn't have that value in OpenTX.

[CBRK]

It doesn't have that value in OpenTX.

Bugger, wonder why they didnt do that, makes mixing rules very simple.

In that case Spartan I'd go ahead with the revised suggestion of Marschy's.

[Spartan]

I did as Marschy suggested and I could see it changing the values in the receiver test when I changed the switch but it stayed negative so it was off all the time. I figured out it needed to be AIL in switch and AIL in source not !AIL so now it goes from -4 to +125.

I probably will change to CPPM at some stage but it was a big enough job for me to get my head around just getting this thing to fly so I didn't want the hassle of channel mapping or what ever else I would have to do just yet.

Thanks for sorting that out for me - I was all ready to buy another receiver!

I see you extended your antennas on your receiver Marschy. Is there some sort of special cable you used? I flew pretty much to the limit of LOS this morning and didn't have any issues but I'd rather be safe than sorry - especially with a carbon fibre frame.

[Marschy]

I see you extended your antennas on your receiver Marschy. Is there some sort of special cable you used? I flew pretty much to the limit of LOS this morning and didn't have any issues but I'd rather be safe than sorry - especially with a carbon fibre frame.

Glad we could help. The reason I changed the antenna is because the receiver on my mini quad will be between carbon fibre plates, which will inhibit reception to some degree. I am going to get one of these antenna mounts very soon (as soon as they are in stock that is)

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__67379__HobbyKing_Receiver_Antenna_Mount_Dual_45deg_with_Direct_or_Clip_Mount.html

Hold off making any change to your receiver until I test mine. It should work no problem, but better to be safe than sorry. The antenna I replaced them with was the GR300 from Hobbyking, I just cut the connection off. If you want to do it, I will get some decent photographs of what I did to mine.

[CBRK]

Hi Marschy,

Wondering if you have thought about autotune and the Mini Quad on the R615X.....  Issue is that you cant move the autotune option to a channel other than 7 or 8.  Unfortunately the R615X only outputs 6 channels in CPPM mode.  If I have to do an autotune I'll have to switch back to PWM and plug ch 6 into RCIN 7 on the APM to do the autotune and then switch back.

I'm lucky I think the PID's that it have are spot on so no need to autotune, but thought you should know about it before you hit the issue.

I'm going to try to get the miniAPM wired up tomorrow during the day when my daughter is sleeping, fingers crossed I'll get it all done and tested before I leave on Tuesday morning.

Chris

[CBRK]

If i was to get a apm fc is the initial setup simple like using usb and a setup program or do i have to wrte some sort of code which i have no idea about.
After christmas I plan to get a new fc. Either apm or multiwii both with gps.
Regards
Crispy

I'd go with the APM, it's mostly plug it in and choose options on the PC.  Just dont expect to plug it in and go fly straight away, there are settings and calibration items that you really cant skip.  The multiwii is really at the end of it's life - not much they can do extra as there are hardware limitiations, people seemed to have moved to other controllers in that price range such as the CC3D or the open aero flashed KK2 boards.  Note the APM is also heading that way too, we'll all need to switch to pixhawk's soon (same software as the APM but bigger hardware) :-)  I plan to pick one up in the new year if Santa is good it me :-)

My tricopter has the option to go back to the KK2 board but over the last couple of months, I've not bothered, the APM board does everything I need.  I can make it a fun fly or I can make it a stable aerial photography platform.

[Spartan]

Here it is - if I can work out how to post a photo that is!

[img width= height= alt=]http://www.myswag.org/MGalleryItem.php?id=1305[/img]

[Spartan]

Oh FFS what have I done wrong now!

[Marschy]

Looking mighty fine.



Quote me and you'll see how the image is inserted

[Marschy]

Well the good news is my modification to the receiver antennas is working, but I need to range test it. For that I need to enlist the help of my daughter who is not here at the moment.

[Spartan]

Looking mighty fine.



Quote me and you'll see how the image is inserted

Ok cool thanks for that.

I mounted my own dodgy 90mm pvc stormwater pipe landing gear because I thought there would be a fair chance of me breaking the proper ones. They work well too - nice and springy.

And I'm only running 8x4.5 props because I bought the wrong 9x5 ones and haven't reordered the right ones yet. I maidened it with 10x4.5 on it and it had heaps of grunt and response but I was worried about overloading the ESCs or possibly the motors.

[CBRK]

Ok cool thanks for that.

I mounted my own dodgy 90mm pvc stormwater pipe landing gear because I thought there would be a fair chance of me breaking the proper ones. They work well too - nice and springy.

And I'm only running 8x4.5 props because I bought the wrong 9x5 ones and haven't reordered the right ones yet. I maidened it with 10x4.5 on it and it had heaps of grunt and response but I was worried about overloading the ESCs or possibly the motors.

Hi Spartan,

It looks nice, well worth the wait.  You'll definitely want to be able to switch between auto level and not with that.  What camera are you planning to put on it?  Are you thinking of doing a FPV setup?

Looks nice and clean, just like mine used to look.  Wont take long for you to start adding bits :-)

What motors & ESC's do you have on it again?

On DT750's on 20A ESC's I run 10x4.5's and they keep well within the bounds of both.

The landing gear is a good idea that is out there, very forgiving.  I've used pine square which is cable tied on so that has some give in the cable ties (they break first).

Chris

[Spartan]

Thanks mate. Yeah I'm glad you guys sorted out the self level for me - I've only flown for a couple of minutes with it off and I definitely need the assistance!

I'd love to do FPV eventually once I learn to fly properly. I'm trying to decide between the Mobius and SJ4000 at the moment but I'll probably go with the Mobius because of it being smaller and lighter and the only reason I would go with the other one is because of it's Gopro form factor - can mount it onto a gimbal etc but I don't plan on doing that. From what I've looked at so far FPV is pretty expensive to get into too, so I'll be saving for a while and getting plenty of advice before I take the plunge.

I'm running 20A Afro ESCs with the NTM 28-30s 900kV motors. I thought the motors would be able to handle 10x4.5s but I thought I might have been pushing the ESCs a bit, although I won't be flying much full throttle if at all for a while. I'm getting around 15 minutes out of a 3000mah battery at the moment and only using about 2200ma so I'm happy with that.

It would be good if I can stick to 10" props because the 9x5s seem to be hard to get hold of and it felt like it was going to perform well on the 10" - plus I have a whole stack of them!

A mate of mine uses pine landing gear on his but stuck ping pong balls on the bottom because he kept getting the bare timber caught in grass etc on rough landings.

[Crisp Image]

I'd go with the APM, it's mostly plug it in and choose options on the PC.  Just dont expect to plug it in and go fly straight away, there are settings and calibration items that you really cant skip.  The multiwii is really at the end of it's life - not much they can do extra as there are hardware limitiations, people seemed to have moved to other controllers in that price range such as the CC3D or the open aero flashed KK2 boards.  Note the APM is also heading that way too, we'll all need to switch to pixhawk's soon (same software as the APM but bigger hardware) :-)  I plan to pick one up in the new year if Santa is good it me :-)

My tricopter has the option to go back to the KK2 board but over the last couple of months, I've not bothered, the APM board does everything I need.  I can make it a fun fly or I can make it a stable aerial photography platform.

Ok then where would you recommend I get one. I usually shop at Hobby King but open to suggestions.
Regards
Crispy

[Marschy]

G'day Crispy,

Options are

3DRobitics (very expensive)
Hobbyking (complete kit here http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__58284__HKPilot_Mega_2_7_Master_Set_With_OSD_LEA_6H_GPS_Power_module_Telemetry_Radio_433Mhz_XT_60_.html)
Aliexpress also sell complete kits (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/APM2-6-ArduPilot-UAV-Flight-Controller-APM-2-6-6M-GPS-w-Compass-Power-Module-915Mhz/2021736205.html)

but get a Hobbyking power module as the one they supply in these kits have issues with the voltage/current monitor. I have two of these kits and can't complain, they work, apart from the afore mentioned power module, but you can save a heap of coin going the Aliexpress route.

You've also got Goodluckbuy, Banggood, Thanksbuyer who all sell complete kits. There are any number of sources.

At the very least get the following for a complete solution

APM 2.6 FC
NEO 6M GPS or better
3DR Telemetry set 915 MHz
minimOSD
Power Module

Thanksbuyer sell an APM compatible sonar that Chris and I have been experimenting with. I don't really have much feedback with it yet, but Chris may have more info.

You can also get Air Pressure sensors for measuring air speed, Optical flow meters which are used when you don't have a GPS or if you live in an area where GPS reception is poor.

If you want the ducks guts of Arducopter compatible hardware in 32 bit architecture go for the Pixhawk or PX4 compatible setups.

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Pixhawk-PX4-2-4-5-32-Bit-ARM-Flight-Controller-4G-TF-Led-External-NEO-6M/1085370_32257396276.html

but you will still need a minimOSD because most of the kits on Aliexpress don't come with them, and you still have the issue with the power module being the dodgy version.

[CBRK]

Thanks mate. Yeah I'm glad you guys sorted out the self level for me - I've only flown for a couple of minutes with it off and I definitely need the assistance!

I'd love to do FPV eventually once I learn to fly properly. I'm trying to decide between the Mobius and SJ4000 at the moment but I'll probably go with the Mobius because of it being smaller and lighter and the only reason I would go with the other one is because of it's Gopro form factor - can mount it onto a gimbal etc but I don't plan on doing that. From what I've looked at so far FPV is pretty expensive to get into too, so I'll be saving for a while and getting plenty of advice before I take the plunge.

Keep it simple on the FPV, get the mobius so you can use it for FPV and also for HD video's.  There are small adapters for around $5 to feed it to FPV.  Then you just need a 5.8 Ghz Tx ($30) and a Rx monitor ($100-150 - for 7" and 8 ch 5.8Ghz Rx).  I agree not cheap at all, I still fly primarily LOS but do the odd FPV run - still learning myself :-)  The monitor is much cheaper than goggles, plus you can switch between LOS and FPV easier.

I'm running 20A Afro ESCs with the NTM 28-30s 900kV motors. I thought the motors would be able to handle 10x4.5s but I thought I might have been pushing the ESCs a bit, although I won't be flying much full throttle if at all for a while. I'm getting around 15 minutes out of a 3000mah battery at the moment and only using about 2200ma so I'm happy with that.

It would be good if I can stick to 10" props because the 9x5s seem to be hard to get hold of and it felt like it was going to perform well on the 10" - plus I have a whole stack of them!

A mate of mine uses pine landing gear on his but stuck ping pong balls on the bottom because he kept getting the bare timber caught in grass etc on rough landings.

Just noticed you are running 4s, you are right you might draw too much on full throttle.  Just remember the ESC's can do a burst mode to a larger current, if it's 18A then it should be able to keep small bursts to 25A.  You will find yourself typically well below max throttle.  On mine I draw about 18-20A from the three motors for hovering, and around 25-30A for harder maneuvers, I'm running 3s....

Your battery life is pretty good, I wouldn't push them to much further though you should be keeping 20% by the time you land.  How are you measuring your battery consumption?  I thought I was only using around 1800-1900 but once I started measuring it with the APM I found I was using far more than I thought.  If you are measuring on the battery charger, note that you'll have about 10% loss, so you are doing even better than you think.

I must admit I've been thinking of what to put on the bottom of the landing gear, I saw the ping pong ball idea on youtube a few months back and have been entertaining the idea.  I've had a couple of flips due to a single stuck landing gear......

[CBRK]

G'day Crispy,

Options are

3DRobitics (very expensive)
Hobbyking (complete kit here http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__58284__HKPilot_Mega_2_7_Master_Set_With_OSD_LEA_6H_GPS_Power_module_Telemetry_Radio_433Mhz_XT_60_.html)
Aliexpress also sell complete kits (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/APM2-6-ArduPilot-UAV-Flight-Controller-APM-2-6-6M-GPS-w-Compass-Power-Module-915Mhz/2021736205.html)

but get a Hobbyking power module as the one they supply in these kits have issues with the voltage/current monitor. I have two of these kits and can't complain, they work, apart from the afore mentioned power module, but you can save a heap of coin going the Aliexpress route.

You've also got Goodluckbuy, Banggood, Thanksbuyer who all sell complete kits. There are any number of sources.

At the very least get the following for a complete solution

APM 2.6 FC
NEO 6M GPS or better
3DR Telemetry set 915 MHz
minimOSD
Power Module

Thanksbuyer sell an APM compatible sonar that Chris and I have been experimenting with. I don't really have much feedback with it yet, but Chris may have more info.

You can also get Air Pressure sensors for measuring air speed, Optical flow meters which are used when you don't have a GPS or if you live in an area where GPS reception is poor.

If you want the ducks guts of Arducopter compatible hardware in 32 bit architecture go for the Pixhawk or PX4 compatible setups.

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Pixhawk-PX4-2-4-5-32-Bit-ARM-Flight-Controller-4G-TF-Led-External-NEO-6M/1085370_32257396276.html

but you will still need a minimOSD because most of the kits on Aliexpress don't come with them, and you still have the issue with the power module being the dodgy version.

Pretty spot to me, I'd recommend staying with the full size APM, unless you really want to do the modify everything.

Be aware that not all the parts will be plug and play, you need to check some things.  If you get the telemetry radio's and MinimOSD, be very aware that the cable supplied by HK is wired incorrectly.....  I can provide you with the change if you get one.

If you are a platinum HK member I'd recommend just going for their 2.7 combo deal, I think it's around $210.  If you want to keep the costs down, I'd suggest just going the board and power module (I have a non HK pm and it works ok - from what I can tell, Marks had bad luck on his), if you go down that route then you can get some good deals from aliexpress or other places Mark mentioned.  The GPS would be the next purchase, then OSD, then the telemetry radios.

The sonar has only been test benched so far.  Keep it simple at first and go without it I'd recommend, look at adding it later once you are happy with everything else.  I think I'll be looking at the more expensive versions later on that can do 7m, ours only are really good for around 2-3m.

I'd only go the Pixhawk if you are using a octocopter.

[CBRK]

Well the curse of the front yard struck again.....  I was testing out the updated OSD and at 11 minutes in (2nd battery) a tree jumped out above my quad and it hit my quad.....  I should have kept the throttle going but instead I killed the throttle (just commit and go).  Well the road was below.....  So good news is that only a few things broke, these things are pretty strong since it was a 5m free fall drop at a funny angle.

Broken items:
GPS mount, bent the bolt - moved GPS to sit on top of telemetry radio.  Not ideal as it will pickup interference from it
Top frame plate where the GPS mount connected - small split - will fix with some epoxy
One motor mount - small cracks - fixed with epoxy and a small wooden brace (ordered replacement frame - will order a carbon fiber kit from Aliexpress)
3 props
Lost one spinner (have a spare motor on way - will look for the lost one)

Fixed most of it, just need to go get a locking M5 nylock nut and I'll be back in the air tomorrow.  Tough little critters, it hit hard at impact, I'm impressed it didnt break any motors or snap any of the motor mounts.

Lesson learnt - fly at the local park where the softer ground will do less damage.

I'll work on the footage for the youtube channel.

Oddly I'm getting some interesting ALT values on the OSD, seems to way different to the values via the telemetry.  Everything else is spot on.

[Marschy]

Hi Marschy,

Wondering if you have thought about autotune and the Mini Quad on the R615X.....  Issue is that you cant move the autotune option to a channel other than 7 or 8.  Unfortunately the R615X only outputs 6 channels in CPPM mode.  If I have to do an autotune I'll have to switch back to PWM and plug ch 6 into RCIN 7 on the APM to do the autotune and then switch back.

I'm lucky I think the PID's that it have are spot on so no need to autotune, but thought you should know about it before you hit the issue.

I'm going to try to get the miniAPM wired up tomorrow during the day when my daughter is sleeping, fingers crossed I'll get it all done and tested before I leave on Tuesday morning.

Chris

Can't autotrim be invoked by holding the throttle stick in the arm position for 15-20 seconds? Lemme check on the Arducopter site.

Edit: Yep, you don't need a channel to be assigned for autotrim.

http://copter.ardupilot.com/wiki/autotrim/

[CBRK]

Can't autotrim be invoked by holding the throttle stick in the arm position for 15-20 seconds? Lemme check on the Arducopter site.

Edit: Yep, you don't need a channel to be assigned for autotrim.

http://copter.ardupilot.com/wiki/autotrim/

Nice, I forgot you could do that.  I was lucky, the MiniQuad seemed to fly perfect straight off, no autotune needed.  Nice to know it's easy to turn it on if needed.