Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything

[Mandrake]

Its a Remzibi OSD but its designed for DJI use - Its got the correct sockets to plug in the LED and GPS - I might get to test it soon ...

Alien completion is now on the back burner again ...
One of my motors doesn't want to go around and around it likes to go backwards and forwards sort of vibrating - tried it in a couple of ESC sockets all the same ...!!!!
Is that kaput ??
Do I need to buy a new one ??
Cheers
Steve

[Marschy]

Hi Mark and Steve,

I have to ask, what's the attraction with the Naza?  Besides it appears to have a really smooth out of the box feel?  I did a quick look today and seems the full version is very pricey and the lite version is a good price but it is very restricted (did I read that right no pmu or osd)?  I'm guessing if you went with the lite version you'd need to add a third party OSD, etc which is just more weight?

Before I saw all the issues you guys are having I would have said it was easier to setup than the APM but I'm rethinking that comment now 

Chris

My wife gave me some pocket money, so I bought the best that my allowance would buy, but it had to include automation to some degree and an OSD/FPV system to allow me to get in flight video using better methods than LOS could provide.

If the allowance hadn't come my way I would have opted for a cheaper flight controller.

The only advantage I am seeing with the Naza flight controller so far is the tidy cabling and the simple software for setup, but I haven't put it in the air yet, apparently the Attitude and GPS modes are killer for aerial videography.

Having said that the supported frames, flight modes and add-ons with the APM are great fun to muck around with.

All of my quads have been self build so far, just the way I like 'em.

[Marschy]

Its a Remzibi OSD but its designed for DJI use - Its got the correct sockets to plug in the LED and GPS - I might get to test it soon ...

Alien completion is now on the back burner again ...
One of my motors doesn't want to go around and around it likes to go backwards and forwards sort of vibrating - tried it in a couple of ESC sockets all the same ...!!!!
Is that kaput ??
Do I need to buy a new one ??
Cheers
Steve

If you have used 3.5mm bullet connectors on the motor leads, or it came with them, then cut the heat shrink off and check the solder joints. If one of the motor leads has a dry joint, this is symptomatic of a dry solder joint. Don't run the motor up again until you've checked it out because you can burn your ESC out.

I've had similar issues with my 2280kv Emax motors, the motor leads use enamelled copper wire and getting rid of the enamel without weakening the wire is proving quite difficult. I have to get some acetone which will apparently dissolve the enamelling and allow them to be tinned properly prior to soldering them directly to my ESC's.

[Mandrake]

Bugger - Could be my bodgy soldering coz I extended the leads by soldering and shrink tube .. Better check them then ... Thanks mate !!

[CBRK]

Hmmm, just when you think you have the MinimOSD stuff sorted, it bites you in the arse.....

I was wiring up the 250 Mini Quad and hooked it all up and it kind of worked.  Had the OSD boot screen, and it was waiting for mavlink heartbeat messages.  I then hooked up the telemetry radio to supply those, I did it without the Minim connected, it wouldnt connect, so I rejigged the wire layout to be the same as on my tricopter and I could then connect.  Next I plugged in the MinimOSD, and I got lots of magic smoke......  Seems it's from the analogue side, pin 4 on the top left has burn marks.

I think I'm going to just run the damn things as 5v from now on.  It's just too expensive to run them as 12V.  So I've ordered 3 new minims, hoping to receive two of them before I drive to the Gold Coast for Christmas it will be touch and go.  The other is a MavlinkOSD, not sure if there is much of a deference but I'll read up some more.

I also ordered 5 analogue chips for $15 so I'll see if I can resurrect the dead board (and have 4 spares for when I do it again....)

Such a bad design.  On a plus my wiring all looked nice, but since I'm dropping to 5v for the minimOSD I'll have to redo parts of it.  Once those bullet connectors arrive and I have the ESC's mounted I'll take some happy snaps.

Chris

[CBRK]

The only advantage I am seeing with the Naza flight controller so far is the tidy cabling and the simple software for setup, but I haven't put it in the air yet, apparently the Attitude and GPS modes are killer for aerial videography.

This is what I hear, I'll wait to see the results from you guys.  Doubt I'll make the jump to it, I do plan to pick up a pixhawk clone in the new year.

[Marschy]

Hmmm, just when you think you have the MinimOSD stuff sorted, it bites you in the arse.....

I was wiring up the 250 Mini Quad and hooked it all up and it kind of worked.  Had the OSD boot screen, and it was waiting for mavlink heartbeat messages.  I then hooked up the telemetry radio to supply those, I did it without the Minim connected, it wouldnt connect, so I rejigged the wire layout to be the same as on my tricopter and I could then connect.  Next I plugged in the MinimOSD, and I got lots of magic smoke......  Seems it's from the analogue side, pin 4 on the top left has burn marks.

I think I'm going to just run the damn things as 5v from now on.  It's just too expensive to run them as 12V.  So I've ordered 3 new minims, hoping to receive two of them before I drive to the Gold Coast for Christmas it will be touch and go.  The other is a MavlinkOSD, not sure if there is much of a deference but I'll read up some more.

I also ordered 5 analogue chips for $15 so I'll see if I can resurrect the dead board (and have 4 spares for when I do it again....)

Such a bad design.  On a plus my wiring all looked nice, but since I'm dropping to 5v for the minimOSD I'll have to redo parts of it.  Once those bullet connectors arrive and I have the ESC's mounted I'll take some happy snaps.

Chris

Hate to be the bearer of bad news. The Mavlink-OSD's don't have the solder pads to run the video chip on 5 volts. It is powered via an onboard 5 volt regulator that is supplied from the 12 volt video transmitter supply.

[Mandrake]

Here's something you don't need to find out the hard way --- coupla months back I bought a 12v camera for FPV ( Its on the FC40 I lost ) - So I figured it was a nice easy 12v install so I bought 2 more - one for Alien and one for the new FC40 ... All wired up plugged in battery and Phhht Pop smoke !! Fortunately for me I opened the dead one up to see what happened - The previous connecting cable that I used is the reverse of the one supplied with the new camera ( I figured they would be the same from same supplier ) -
So I've had to swap the video and +ve leads around and it sort of works now - Got to find the correct frequency settings on the Boscams as its a bit scratchy at the moment but OSD is showing ..
Progress ??
Had to drill 4 holes in the Alien floor to hold the new landing gear as the gimbal mounting hooks are 10mm not 12mm !! So had to replace the Aliens support rods and add the landing gear support rods behind .. Now All I have to do is fix that motor .... More work later today ...

[Marschy]

Have you added a filter for your FPV camera Steve?

If you are running the camera from the same power supply as your ESC's you will possibly get lines on the video output when the motors are spinning under load.

I made the inductor myself, but you can purchase them from Jaycar. You will also need a 470uF 25 volt capacitor.

http://search.jaycar.com.au/search?w=ferrite%20choke&view=list

[Mandrake]

Hooked it up before and I have very crappy OSD but no video feed from camera Will try again later today..No filters or capacitors yet

[CBRK]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news. The Mavlink-OSD's don't have the solder pads to run the video chip on 5 volts. It is powered via an onboard 5 volt regulator that is supplied from the 12 volt video transmitter supply.

Hmmm, I was reading up on these, sounds like they have a better regulator that is less likely to go poof.....  I might be on a winner here.

The MinimOSD's seems to be a very poor design, it looks like what they should have done all along is make the 12V line a passthrough (connect the input pin to the output pin) and ran the board off 5V.  Crazy since the analogue chip can only take 5.25V max according to it's datasheet.  I think it was when people were using a 2nd battery for their video and wanted the power to be used from it, now we run it off the one battery it makes absolutely no sense to build it the way they have.  I'm strongly thinking of trying to modify one so that it does the above.

Good news is I have 1 of these on the way (MAVLINK OSD) and 2 HK MinimOSD's on the way.  With 5 spare chips on the way I should be able to fix the issue - should have these boards coming out of my ears :-).  I've never had to solder so many SMD components before, this is getting fun, I haven't soldered an SMD IC in 10+ years, I've done other components, will be interesting.

Now I have to work out what the actual issue is, I'm wondering if this happened because the telemetry harness is wrong.  I had to do alot of moving stuff on the telemetry radio plug and the APM end, wondering if that stuffed up something on the Minim's input (maybe I'm applying 5V to a 3.3V circuit somewhere?).  Lots of checking tonight.

To get it up and running I'll just run the feed from the camera straight to the VTx so that it wont hold me up waiting for the Minim's.

[CBRK]

Here's something you don't need to find out the hard way --- coupla months back I bought a 12v camera for FPV ( Its on the FC40 I lost ) - So I figured it was a nice easy 12v install so I bought 2 more - one for Alien and one for the new FC40 ... All wired up plugged in battery and Phhht Pop smoke !! Fortunately for me I opened the dead one up to see what happened - The previous connecting cable that I used is the reverse of the one supplied with the new camera ( I figured they would be the same from same supplier ) -
So I've had to swap the video and +ve leads around and it sort of works now - Got to find the correct frequency settings on the Boscams as its a bit scratchy at the moment but OSD is showing ..
Progress ??
Had to drill 4 holes in the Alien floor to hold the new landing gear as the gimbal mounting hooks are 10mm not 12mm !! So had to replace the Aliens support rods and add the landing gear support rods behind .. Now All I have to do is fix that motor .... More work later today ...

I've done this before (swapped power wires), but in my case it killed my VTX (camera was fine, although I thought I had fried it but it's now getting mounted on the mini quad!).  I agree with Mark I'd put a ferrite choke on it, you might find that is all is needed.  If not then step it up with the capacitor.  I have several ferrites in my draw (clip on and doughnut shaped) for this reason, never know when interference will strike.

For this reason I now triple check my VTx to camera power arrangements.....  Now adding checking the digital end on the MinimOSD......  Hmmm, maybe I should triple check everything before powering up the first time.....

Chris

[Marschy]

Looking forward to seeing some progress pictures on your mini quad Chris. The MavlinkOSD's are a lot cheaper for some reason, curious.

I reckon I know why the Multistar 30A ESC's were pulled from the Hobbyking website. The 4 that I have on the Alien spin up the motors with no problem, but don't make any beeping noises whatsoever when powered up. I reckon I scored some of the ESC's that many people have been complaining about as being duds. I tried programming one of them using the multistar programming card and they don't respond to programming whatsoever.

The multistars I have on the Reptile make all the appropriate noises and can be programmed.

I swapped one over for one of the new blue series 30A ESC's and it works a treat. No sync issues at all using stock firmware. I'm going to swap them all over now. It's a time consuming process though as I have to solder extensions onto the power and motor wires.

This might be the reason I can't arm the motors.

[Marschy]

I bought some 12x40x1.6mm aluminium angle yesterday. I'm going to make a tilt gimbal for the mini quad. I've ordered two of these pan-tilt gimbals from Hobbyking and I'm going to pinch the bearings and servo tie rods and the fiberglass plate that the camera and servo is attached to.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__11442__FPV_Fiberglass_Pan_Tilt_Camera_Mount_.html

The aluminium bracket is going to be used to replace the fiberglass frame so the bracket will fit inside the mini quad frame. There is a lot of wasted space between the fiberglass plate and the bottom plate where the pan servo goes, so I'm going to lose that space when I make the bracket.

The bracket will look something like either of these designs that I am toying around with. The 12mm part of the angle will be screwed to the mini quad frame. I reckon the second one should work. The hole is where the flange bearing will go.

[allan.kidd]

Well - mine has arrived!  Now to find a very large, flat, treeless area with no wind. Heart in mouth for the first flight!

The camera attachment should arrive in a few weeks.

[Marschy]

Very nice

[CBRK]

I bought some 12x40x1.6mm aluminium angle yesterday. I'm going to make a tilt gimbal for the mini quad. I've ordered two of these pan-tilt gimbals from Hobbyking and I'm going to pinch the bearings and servo tie rods and the fiberglass plate that the camera and servo is attached to.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__11442__FPV_Fiberglass_Pan_Tilt_Camera_Mount_.html

Hi, I have some of these, just be aware that they are a tight fit.  The tabs that slide into the slots are a bit big for the slots, I used some sandpaper to widen the slots by a bit.  Don't sand the tabs as there isnt much to them to start with.....  Don't try to force it or the tabs will get damaged.

I also found out that none of my cameras mount to these without modification, the plugs get in the way (even though it has cutouts, they are never where my plugs are).  I thought about using some small standoffs, never got around to it, but might for the 700 TVL camera, when I find somewhere to put it.

Did you get some small micro servos to use on them?

Chris

[CBRK]

Looking forward to seeing some progress pictures on your mini quad Chris. The MavlinkOSD's are a lot cheaper for some reason, curious.

I reckon I know why the Multistar 30A ESC's were pulled from the Hobbyking website. The 4 that I have on the Alien spin up the motors with no problem, but don't make any beeping noises whatsoever when powered up. I reckon I scored some of the ESC's that many people have been complaining about as being duds. I tried programming one of them using the multistar programming card and they don't respond to programming whatsoever.

The multistars I have on the Reptile make all the appropriate noises and can be programmed.

I swapped one over for one of the new blue series 30A ESC's and it works a treat. No sync issues at all using stock firmware. I'm going to swap them all over now. It's a time consuming process though as I have to solder extensions onto the power and motor wires.

This might be the reason I can't arm the motors.

Hoping that the bullet connectors will be in the letterbox when I get home, so fingers crossed I can take a few pics tonight.  I'm feeling happy about the build, besides killing the MinimOSD.....  I'm curious about the MavLink being cheaper, I'll have a closer look at the parts when I get it in my hands.

On the ESC's, do they work when you wire them up direct to a receiver?  The no sound could be that they have been programmed not to sing.  Having said that, if the programming card doesn't work, I'd return them if you can.  More HK credit to spend :-)  I'd suggest if the FC cant talk to the ESC's as it's expecting then I'd agree it would be a strong reason, I guess you'll know for sure when you swap out the ESC's.

I decided to take the few grams of weight and do the connectors for the mini quad, so it was easy to swap bits if I broke stuff......  For the Tri it's all soldered besides the connection to the motors.

Does it have a distribution system?  If it does I'd consider soldering on bullet connectors to the distribution system so it's easy to swap out in the future?

Chris

[CBRK]

Well - mine has arrived!  Now to find a very large, flat, treeless area with no wind. Heart in mouth for the first flight!

The camera attachment should arrive in a few weeks.

Looking nice an shiny and new!  You'll have a ball with it, even more when you get your camera mount.

Just keep it slow and steady for the first few flights, get a good feel for it, make sure that you go through all the prestart checks (props on tight, got GPS lock if it has one, etc.....)  Do not skip on any of the checks and if somethings not right, fix it first.  Oh and bring tools with you when you go, so that you can replace props, etc.....

If you have insurance already go to a local playing fields when no one's around, should give you plenty of space to work with.  I'd recommend going solo the first time.

Chris

[CBRK]

Bugger - Could be my bodgy soldering coz I extended the leads by soldering and shrink tube .. Better check them then ... Thanks mate !!

So was that the cause?  Or is it a dodgy motor?  I'd agree it's more likely the wiring or the ESC that the issue.  The motor's a pretty simple beast.

[CBRK]

Have you added a filter for your FPV camera Steve?

If you are running the camera from the same power supply as your ESC's you will possibly get lines on the video output when the motors are spinning under load.

I made the inductor myself, but you can purchase them from Jaycar. You will also need a 470uF 25 volt capacitor.

http://search.jaycar.com.au/search?w=ferrite%20choke&view=list

Holy crap Mark, I just noticed the ferrite and the wraps.... You dont want any interference do you, usually a few wraps is enough......

You should also use twisted wire after the plug, it's the only way to be sure......

[Marschy]

G'day Chris,

The inductor is about 350uH according to my multimeter, should do the job. Not very clear in the photo, but to the left is a black electrolytic cap 470uF 25v. No different to the inductors sold by Jaycar, only difference is I rolled my own.



Unfortunately I've modified the ESC's by extending the wiring and reversed the direction of the power cables and re-heat shrunk them, so I cant return them.

If need be I can make a new backplate out of fiberglass for the gimbal. Already have some HXT900 9gm servos, I'll see if they fit, if not, I'll get some HXT500's. I'm going to connect it to the miniAPM like I have on the Reptile-Aphid. Just power it from a 5 volt BEC and connect the signal wire to A11 and configure the gimbal in Mission Planner

There are some simple designs on rcgroups that use cable ties as a hinge with a linear servo.

[Mandrake]

Just removed my dodgy wiring from the equation -- plugged motor on its short leads into ESC and it just oscillates about 3mm forward and back - dodgy motor ...
I've already ordered Turnigy 2212 set , and complained to my Ebay supplier - If I can explain what the motor is doing I might get a replacement Don't hold ya breath !!
Steve

[Marschy]

I'm not a fan of 3.5 bullet connectors. The number of times I've pulled the F450 apart and disconnected the motors from the ESC's, the bullet connectors now feel a little bit loose.

I'm also trying to eliminate any potential points of failure with the Alien560, so the less connectors, the better.

[Marschy]

Just removed my dodgy wiring from the equation -- plugged motor on its short leads into ESC and it just oscillates about 3mm forward and back - dodgy motor ...
I've already ordered Turnigy 2212 set , and complained to my Ebay supplier - If I can explain what the motor is doing I might get a replacement Don't hold ya breath !!
Steve

Do you mean the Multistar 2212 set? I've got the early version of these motors where all the prop nuts screw on in clockwise direction. Nice motors.