Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything

[Marschy]

My local Auspost contractor works on Saturdays, gotta love him. He delivered a bag of goodies from AliExpress/Goodluckbuy this morning. I now have most of the bits and pieces to finish off my Alien 560 quadcopter. I still have to get a 12 volt BEC to run the camera and gimbal.

Part of the shipment was spare parts, new arms for the F450, spare landing gear, and some new Tarot motor mounts for the Alien 560 where the plate for the motor is mounted on rubber grommets which provides some vibration isolation between the motors and the frame. They add 40mm in length each arm, so the wheel base for the quad will be 640mm rather than 560mm.



I'm going to run this quad on Turnigy NTM Propdrive 2830 800kv motors for now. They can run at 4S with a 12 inch prop, but in line with my wish to make this into a very nice quad, I'm going to look at some of the new Multistar Elite 4006-740KV in the new year, then the NTM's will become spares for my 2 F450's. This rig is going to be 4S from the start. I'll post up some pictures as I progress with the build.

[Bird]

I don't know if its been mentioned anywhere in the last 10941203948 posts, but is there an out of the box one you can buy and fly without having to rebuild it and upgrade it everytime you use it? as that doesn't appeal to me at all.

[Mandrake]

Phantom 2 or Walkera QR350
http://www.hobbywow.com/en-dji-phantom-2-gps-smart-drone-quadcopter-with-h3-3d-camera-gimbal-rtf-2-4ghz-p237025.htm
http://www.hobbywow.com/en-walkera-qr-x350-with-fpv-f7-quadcopter-rtf-combo-gopro-camera-mount-ptz-shock-absorbers-p236144.htm?source=ProductListAds&id=56128534817&currency=aud&country=AU&gclid=Cj0KEQjw8aeiBRCknPXk-u_V_4gBEiQAD2-mgcHFGz9CqXE6BL-3Tq_wTSrAo_82dbvxOo9bXBXPUjkaAkAo8P8HAQ
Then all you need is a GoPro style camera !!

[edz]

Theres plenty Bird ... $$ range from $300 ish to several thousands $$ .. just depends on what the wallet limit is..

[Bird]

Phantom 2 or Walkera QR350
Then all you need is a GoPro style camera !!

Is that price correct, or did they use their phone number by accident...

[Crisp Image]

Being such a nice day and the cook is in the kitchen......cooking and master CI is out the back mowing the lawns I said to my self "self it is time to play" so off t my shed with the trusty scratch built quad with the KK2.1 FC and fitted u the spare camera and VTx. Charged the batteries and had a play. Now I have no way to video the output from this camera.
I did have to ditch it in the neighbours yard when I could not quite get the control correct. I jumped the fence and got it back.
What I have had problems with is the stability. I am using Stevis 1.5 beginner FW and in Self level mode when ever I do a movement I have to compensate other movements as well. Like when I go forward the quad will not go straight forward but on a diagonal. And when I start from a hover and yaw the quad moves forward instead of just rotating. No I do expect a little drift but I feel this is too much.
Does any one have a solution for this without replacing the FC with another?
I also gave it a quick spray paint so I could see the front from the rear. Something I have been lacking in from when I built it.
Regards
Crispy

[Marschy]

G'day Crispy, upgrade the firmware to 1.6.

1.5 had issues, mainly with tri-copters I believe, but it wouldn't hurt to use some of the later firmware. Latest FW is about 1.12 now I think from memory.

[Marschy]

Is that price correct, or did they use their phone number by accident...

This one is exceptional value, as you get a radio with it.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__55106__Quanum_Nova_FPV_GPS_Waypoint_QuadCopter_Mode_2_Ready_to_Fly_.html

Have a look at these quads at Hobbyking, lots to choose from for varying budgets.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__592__501__Multi_Rotors_Parts-RTF_PNF_ARF.html

[Markoutback]

Went flying my quad tonight decide to chase a heard of kangaroos off the padock worked a treat until I hit the fence oh well off tomorrow to buy spares to fix gimble mount

[Marschy]

Went flying my quad tonight decide to chase a heard of kangaroos off the padock worked a treat until I hit the fence oh well off tomorrow to buy spares to fix gimble mount

Repairing my quad as we speak, just got some new arms. Used the wrong loctite, red instead of blue. What a PITA.

Did you get it on video?

[Tim - Stratford]

Saw an add for this one, Iris 3d - it has a 'follow me' feature which is very impressive.

http://www.gizmag.com/3d-robotics-iris-plus-follow-me-drone/33747/


Tim

[CBRK]

Hi,

Well the 3rd test flight happened today, good weather although by the time I was ready I had a bit of a wind.

Got 30 mins of flying into today.  According to APM's logs I got it to 25m high, still not as high as I've had it on the kk2 board and could have happily gone much higher but I was still primarily using LOS.

My first take off was aborted as I had changed the battery tray to a thinner but longer one and I had mounted the cheap action cam, well the weight was too far forward, so I detached it to make it easier.  Once it was off the CG was much better and it took off without major issues.  The new tray does add alot of wobble to the camera footage, so I'll need to rethink it.

I tested out the auto tune option, I was using my notebook and couldnt see the telemetry data (my wife who was sitting next to it was busy with my daugther) and I didn't see any movement like I'd expect and so I cancelled it after 20-30 seconds.  On review of the log I noticed it had entered the mode, I just needed to leave it longer.  My advice is using the APM autotune feature give it time.

I'll try it again tomorrow before work if I get enough time.

I also did a bit of alt hold and loitering.  With Alt hold I was very confident to throw the tri around and it worked really well, got it upto around 25km/h before I had to turn to avoid people, sigh.....  Coordinated turns were easy at speed with alt hold.

I did learn an a good lesson and that was when coming off alt hold to stabilise remember to check your throttle (or only change when it's stable and not moving or changing alt), mine was down to 20% as I was descending when I came off alt hold and into stabilise, all I can say is I was lucky it was at 6m when it happened, any less and I reckon I would have hit the ground (missed it by 30cm at most).

I tried RTL as I got a low battery warning and all seemed good, it climbed up to 15m and moved to the right spot and then it started to descend.  I thought it was descending really slowly (I had forgotten to I had set the descent rate to 30cm/s as I thought the default would be too fast), well at 1m off the ground my rear motor experienced an outage and it tail speared into the ground.  Only damage was the GPS mount, needed a fix at home so my day was over.....

I have some footage which I'll upload to my youtube channel during the week.

Still to update my minimOSD, not seeing which mode I'm in is annoying.  I have to use the telemetry feed to know for sure.

Regards,

Chris

[Spartan]

Just a quick question.

How much heat can the components in an ESC take? I've been extending wires in the Afro ESCs that I ordered and my soldering skills leave a bit to be desired so I'm worried that I might overheat something.

I've mainly had trouble desoldering and resoldering the servo leads. I'm not so worried about the power leads and motor leads as the pads are a bit further away from the other components on the board.

I didn't order any extra ESCs when I ordered the parts to build my tri - should I have?

[Marschy]

Hello Spartan,

What you need is an iron that will heat up the solder joint on the 14 AWG wire quickly, otherwise just slowly heating the joint transfers a lot of heat to the surrounding components and the 14 AWG wire acts like a heatsink.

I use a 80 watt iron for this. It's hotter than my soldering station. You can get them rather cheaply from Jaycar ($22).

Cheers, Marschy

[CBRK]

Just a quick question.

How much heat can the components in an ESC take? I've been extending wires in the Afro ESCs that I ordered and my soldering skills leave a bit to be desired so I'm worried that I might overheat something.

I've mainly had trouble desoldering and resoldering the servo leads. I'm not so worried about the power leads and motor leads as the pads are a bit further away from the other components on the board.

I didn't order any extra ESCs when I ordered the parts to build my tri - should I have?

Hi Spartan,

I agree with Marschy, a quick solder will reduce the risk to the components.  Just be careful though you need both the surfaces to be up to temp otherwise you'll end up with dry joint.  It's a balancing act.

I use a soldering station and turn it up a bit higher than what I normally solder with.

Just a question are you using lead free solder?  If so then swap back to lead solder.  Lead free solder needs much higher temps to work with and I hate the stuff.

My recommendation is that you always buy at least 1 spare, so if you need 3 ESC's get 4 as you never know when one will die on you.  On motors I have a full set of replacement motors (in hindsight just 1 spare will be fine).  Oh and if you havent already get at a dozen spare props.  Although now I'm on the cheap plastic ones (i was using carbon fibre mixed ones), I've only broken 1 or 2 since I switched back to the plastic ones.

Get a few spare tail servo's if you haven't already, I killed one in a hard landing in the early days.  I'm still on my 2nd but I have 2 spares.  Use metal geared ones if you can as the plastic ones die quicker.

Regards,

Chris

[Spartan]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

I had a 70 or 80 watt iron which was good for doing automotive stuff but it was one of those cheap ones and the tip crapped out on it really fast. I just bought a soldering station from Dick Smith in the hope that it would be better for this sort of thing and last a bit longer - it's this one: http://www.dicksmith.com.au/tools-hobbyist/temperature-controlled-soldering-station-dsau-t2200
 Maybe I'll just have to go back to a cheap high powered one for doing occasional heavier stuff.

Using normal old 60/40 solder.

I seem to be having trouble getting both the pad and the wire heated up at the same time when I'm doing the servo wires. If I put the wire on the pad and then the iron on top of that I just end up mashing the wire and it bridges across to the next pad and I have to desolder it, cut it off, retin and start again.

Sounds like I had better order another ESC and motor then. I ordered some spare props but I'll have to go back and see which ones I ordered as I had heaps of trouble finding the right sized props from HK Australia. I only ordered black too and should have gotten coloured ones in hindsight especially considering the whole tri is black! Any recommendations on cheap plastic coloured 9x5 props in Australia or another size that would suit this motor for a 4s setup? http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__25081__NTM_Prop_Drive_Series_28_30S_900kv_270w_short_shaft_version_.html

I've got one of the servos recommended on RCexplorer so I'm hoping it's up to the job! I guess I'll order a spare one of those too. http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=46215

Thanks for your help fellas.

[Spartan]

Something else I just thought of: Will I need a separate BEC to power the tilt servo or will the built in BECs in the ESCs do the job?

[CBRK]

Something else I just thought of: Will I need a separate BEC to power the tilt servo or will the built in BECs in the ESCs do the job?

Hi Spartan,

From memory you are using the KK2 FC board, you can use the BEC from the ESC, it is plugged into the KK2 board and this in turn will power the servo.  As long as all three wires are plugged in there should be no issues.

Regards,

Chris

[Spartan]

Ok cool. I wasn't sure if the BECs would have enough grunt to power a servo - they supply .5amp according to the specs.

From what I understand the M1 plug powers the KK board and it's "separate" from the others.

M2-M8 are linked together so that's where I'll run my tail servo from.

[Marschy]

Any recommendations on cheap plastic coloured 9x5 props in Australia or another size that would suit this motor for a 4s setup[/url]

Hello Spartan,

I use these.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__25824__10x4_5_SF_Props_Black_CW_2pc_CCW_2pc_.html

Black is out of stock at the moment, but there are heaps of other colours. If you order them from the Australian warehouse you will typically get them in under 2 weeks.

Order heaps, some of the are really badly balanced, others don't track well, but that shouldn't be a big problem while you are learning how to fly the quad as you going to go through quite a few. 10 inch props are a good general purpose prop, but may cause your ESC's to run warm to hot on 4S.

I've got 12 now of the 2830 800kv NTM propdrives. These motors are rated to 6S. One has a bit of a sticky bearing and does not spin up as well as the others. Doing a bit of reading, other people have had similar issues with bearings, but apparently taking them out and giving them a soak in sewing machine oil sorts it out. These motors apparently run fine on 4S with 10 inch props. These motors have HEAPS of power and torque. Don't forget to get the prop adapter kit.

Cheers, Marschy

[Marschy]

The battery readings are pretty good, the voltage reading drops a bit as the amps go up as expected.  No jumps for me, I'd recommend checking the power module setup?  There seems to be a few settings for it, but it seems to be an auto detect thing.  Hate to say it but it might be a dodgy power module.  Do you have a spare to try?

I think your right, did a bit of research and it appears as though the cheap power modules can give dodgy voltage readings, and can blow up flight control boards. Time to invest in a couple of decent modules I think.

[CBRK]

I think your right, did a bit of research and it appears as though the cheap power modules can give dodgy voltage readings, and can blow up flight control boards. Time to invest in a couple of decent modules I think.

Hmmm best to replace it I reckon....  Killing an APM is expensive, touch wood I've not done that, a $20 MinimOSD is okay but a $75 board hits the pocket.

Grrrr, couldnt get to the oval on Monday morning and then Monday a windstorm hits and then I'm out chainsawing till 2am in the morning.  That scratched Tuesday morning, so now I'm trying for Wednesday morning.

I reviewed my video from the go pro which was on a tripod and it got the tail motor stopping.  I thought I was around 2m when it happened.  Nope was closer to 6m from the video.  I was lucky to get away with just the GPS mast connection breaking.  I'll spend some time on the weekend or maybe one night this week to make a couple of clips.

Chris

[Marschy]

The cheap modules have far less components. It's not only the flight control board you have to worry about, it's also the quad as well. If it fails out of the sky, more than just the flight controller will be damaged. This first picture shows the dodgy power module that came with the flight control board I bought, the second shows the good power module which is similar to the Hobbyking modules I have just ordered.

[Spartan]

The postman dropped off the rest of my HK order today - 2 weeks from China is pretty good I think.

I spent half the day mucking around with the radio gear and trying to calibrate ESCs etc but I think I really need to wait until the frame turns up so that the motors are actually bolted down and the wiring has some sort of organization in the chaos.

Bad news is the props I ordered are wrong and the credit card bill also came today - ouch!!

Didn't stop me from firing off another $100 order to HK for more props and other spares tonight but!

[Mandrake]

I just bought one of these - I'll let you know the outcome - Pretty sure this will not happen at this price but its Paypal secure so I thought I would try .. LOL Mandrake
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Walkera-TALI-H500-RTF-FPV-Hexrcopter-G-3D-Gimbal-iLook-Cam-DEVO-F12E-GIFT-/201201591414?