Author Topic: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything  (Read 779639 times)

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Offline Darcy7

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #275 on: June 18, 2014, 08:47:13 AM »
Large RC helicopters = $$$$$
Stability for helicopters is proportional to how much money you spend on a good quality flight control board.

A 350 quad that can carry a Go-Pro can set you back around $700 for a buy and fly.
The S800 Evo mentioned by Ness will set you back thousands.

How much money you have to spend will be the deciding factor on what anyone can suggest.

What ever I buy has to have half a chance of being approved for the minister of war and finance...!  $700 will result in pain and suffering for an extended period.


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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #276 on: June 18, 2014, 09:26:53 AM »
Well if your looking at getting into quad copters dirt cheap, look at something like this

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/F06586-C-DIY-RC-Quadcopter-FPV-Kit-Nylon-Flamewheel-Carbon-Tall-Landing-Skid-KK-V2-9/1457533334.html

For about $70 upgrade the flight control board to a MultiWii-Pro + GPS combo and get a Turnigy 9XR 9 channel radio with RF module and battery for about $120, add the kit for $130 including shipping, all up you could get a killer quad in the air for around $350 delivered to you door.

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #277 on: June 20, 2014, 09:45:07 PM »
Here is the new flight control system for my F450.



HK MultiWii Pro Multicopter Flight Control Board
Sonar (yep a freakin' sonar, don't even know what the bloody hell I'm going to do with it, but I've got a freakin' sonar)
GPS
Blue Tooth unit (allows Android app to talk to flight control board for programming and waypoint setting)
MinimOSD (on screen display of telemetry data from flight control board and onboard sensors from the OSD board)

Compared to the new flight control system that is going into the new Alien 560.



Naza M V2 Flight Controller
Blue Tooth Unit
iOSDmini (telemetry)
GPS and Compass
LED indicator
Power unit

Similar sort of setups, one for making all my mistakes on and will probably get flown to destruction, the other has proven performance so will go on the Alien which is going to be the camera ship. I had a quick look on the DJI website, no DJI sonar  :'(

I like the modularity of the DJI gear, but the DIY nature of the MultiWii appeals to me as well.

I also recently had delivered two examples of cheap 'action' or GoPro knockoffs from Aliexpress.



The black one is too big for the Tarot gimbal by about 7mm (too high), so I'm getting a generic gimbal that will fit this camera as it has a standard 1/4 mount, whereas the GoTop fits the Tarot gimbal like a glove, but costs around $150US, about twice the cost of the black one.

I still can't pluck up the courage to put a $400+ GoPro black or similar quality camera on the quads. These cameras are the first thing to cop it when the quad goes in nose first.

Both have similar specs

1080p full hd @ 30fps
720p hd @ 60fps or 30fps
wvga @ 120 fps

Both have live video out, the black one with an annoying amount of on screen display that cannot be turned off in live feed mode. The GoTop also has on screen display that can't be turned off, but there's bugger all of it at the very top of the screen.

You can actually see inside the body and all the electronics on the black camera, it's not put together very well at all. Whereas the GoTop is a quality unit.

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #278 on: July 04, 2014, 09:17:57 PM »
After buying the Alien quadcopter frame, I have discovered that having heaps of space makes installing all of the electronics so much easier. The F450 quad is carrying quite a bit of gear, so I was trolling Aliexpress (has more quadcopter stuff on it than you can shake a stick at), looking for frames that utilise the DJI arms so I can still use the F450 arms from my original quad as spares and stumbled across this frame from seller Goodluckbuy. I have been on their website before and knew that quite often their website has very good prices compared to to their store on Aliexpress. It's called the Reptile-Aphid X450, and it uses standard DJI arms with a larger body and comes with a single axis gimbal and board camera for FPV. It still maintains an 'X' configuration, unlike the similar Reptile quadcopter which comes in spider configuration (450/380 wheel base).



Now I've also had a play around with the Fatshark Pilot HD camera, and after getting my hands on a 700tvl camera at the same time I picked up the Alien frame, I have been able to compare these two camera's. The winner hands down was the 700tvl camera, which is fortunately the same resolution as the camera supplied in the Reptile-Aphid frame. Now the Goodluckbuy website doesn't specifically say that the gimbal comes with a servo, but unboxing videos I found on youtube would suggest it does, so all up, the price is pretty good when it includes a camera, gimbal and servo.



So now, I'm going to wait for the x450 frame and other bits and pieces to arrive so I can get the new 450 into the air with the MultiWii Pro controller.

I've flashed the MultiWii controller to use MegaPirateNG as there are already clever people who have written the firmware code for incorporating a sonar, which I have found out is used to assist with automatic landing.

I've tested the sonar running it from the MultiWii board and the distances it shows appear to be extremely accurate while I sit at my computer. Now I've just got to work out how the example code I found for my sonar is then incorporated into the firmware for the MultiWii.

The end goal is almost within sight, to be able to fly one of these things as autonomously as possible, but learn heaps along the way and enjoy myself.

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #280 on: July 11, 2014, 09:00:36 AM »
Same old story regurgitated yet again.

If someone is going to use a camera to spy on someone, they will do it whether they have a 'drone' or not.

Offline GeckoJK

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #281 on: July 11, 2014, 09:41:09 AM »
What is everyones thought on the DJI Phantom Vision 2 +?
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Offline CBRK

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #282 on: July 14, 2014, 10:29:09 AM »
Hi,

Finally got time over the weekend to finish off the first phase of my tricopter.

Flight Attempts:
Maiden flight attempt was a bust, the KK2 board had the CW and CCW marking backwards (was wondering why the green and the red were the wrong way around from any standard - marine or air.  Should have thought about that one), worked that out once I checked out build video again.  I did notice that the tail was lifting way to easy and decided to move the tail motor further forwards.

2nd flight attempt this morning was fantastic, it took flight and all was going well.  Extremely stable, only used minor inputs to keep it in a hover.  Did a small forwards and backwards, then back to a hover.  Not using the self leveling yet, so really happy about now. Then I started a small vertical climb, wow did it move, alot more than I thought it would (65% throttle) then I remembered that the power lines run above the only flat section of ground I have in the front yard (concrete too).....  Well as I was about to make contact I made the decision to cut the throttle completely.  Suffice to say killed my first propeller  >:( and a few zip ties holding on a wooden post as part of the landing gear.  It was 6m of a drop after all.  Front arms folded back as designed and no damage to the motors, they all spin up properly  :D.

Trying a flight tonight in a nice big park with lots of grass.  No powerlines there.

Things to do:
Change the bottom tray so it's fixed properly - so I can work on the FPV items
Mount the HD camera on the front
Buy even more props (get the feeling that a pack of 4 for each wont be enough)
Buy more batteries, I think I'll never have enough of those  >:D
Build the small LiPo bunker, or big one depending on the number of batteries.  I may need to dog proof it as he seems very inquisitive, thinking a lipo with a canine tooth trying to puncture it may end badly for him, and will be bad for the lipo (but thats a secondary concern)
« Last Edit: July 15, 2014, 10:04:32 AM by CBRK »
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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #283 on: July 14, 2014, 10:46:47 AM »
Gday Chris,

I'm haven't used expo on throttle previously. The new MultiWii Pro flight control board is about to be run up for the first time. The 'AltHold' function (flight control board has a barometer) is going to get a workout I think. The 'AltHold' mode in the MegaPirateNG firmware allows the throttle to be used like an altimeter, the higher the throttle, the higher the altitude, the lower the throttle the lower the altitude (relative to take off position). Looking forward to having a play around with this shortly.

You should check this MultiWii Pro flight control board out Chris, it would work very nicely with a nice stable tri-copter.

Cheers, Marschy

Offline rotor138

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #284 on: July 14, 2014, 10:11:25 PM »
Well if your looking at getting into quad copters dirt cheap, look at something like this

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/F06586-C-DIY-RC-Quadcopter-FPV-Kit-Nylon-Flamewheel-Carbon-Tall-Landing-Skid-KK-V2-9/1457533334.html

For about $70 upgrade the flight control board to a MultiWii-Pro + GPS combo and get a Turnigy 9XR 9 channel radio with RF module and battery for about $120, add the kit for $130 including shipping, all up you could get a killer quad in the air for around $350 delivered to you door.


I have just ordered the frame kit from ali express and was wondering what module you recommend there Marschy? I have found the reciever on Hobbyking and also the multiwii pro kit. Is there anywhere you recommend to read up on this stuff so that I can learn what I'm doing?

Thanks

Leon

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #285 on: July 14, 2014, 10:21:32 PM »
Definitely follow the rcgroups instructions for either multiwii pro or megapirateng firmware installation for the multiwii pro board from hobbyking. There are a number of different threads for other multiwii boards but there is only one that I have found that works with the APM mission planner software and sonar as well.

I'll stick a link on here shortly to get you underway. If you have any questions specifically about setting up the multiwii pro board send me a pm and I'll see if I can assist

Marschy

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #286 on: July 14, 2014, 10:58:13 PM »
Hello Leon, when you say module are you referring to the flight control board?

Links for stock multiwii firmware for the  hobbyking board can be found here.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1726790

That thread has a reference to this link for installing the megapirateng firmware onto the HK MWC pro board. This firmware allows you to run the APM mission planner software as well as using up to 10 flight modes

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1752719

One flight mode in particular that I'm interested to see is circle. The quad can perform a circle around a set diameter with the nose pointing inwards. I'm really looking forwards to getting the camera rolling with this flight mode
« Last Edit: July 15, 2014, 09:00:54 AM by Marschy »

Offline rotor138

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #287 on: July 15, 2014, 05:58:10 AM »
Thanks for those links, day off tomorrow so will be doing plenty of reading up. By module I meant the rf receiver there is so many to choose from and wasn't sure which is the right one to get?

How long was delivery when you bought your frame?

Marschy

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #288 on: July 15, 2014, 07:23:38 AM »
6 working days, but it depends on what shipping you've paid for. I got the orange 9 channel dsmx/dsm2 receiver module from hobbyking. I'll find a link for you

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #289 on: July 15, 2014, 08:58:13 AM »
Hello Leon,

Here is the link for the receiver and transmitter modules I am using in conjunction with the Turnigy 9XR radio, just click on the picture to follow the links.

OrangeRx R910 Spektrum DSM2 9Ch 2.4Ghz TwinPort Rx



OrangeRX DSMX/DSM2 2.4Ghz Transmitter Module (JR/Turnigy compatible)



I'm also using satellite receivers


Offline CBRK

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #290 on: July 15, 2014, 10:27:29 AM »
Well my 2nd real flight was great, well was for first 5 mins. Took off nicely, hovered at chest height for little while. Then did a bit of walking the dog with it, my previous rc experience helped a bit here. 

Took it up a bit higher and started experimenting with some coordinated turns. Hmmm should have remembered that the battery was slung underneath with a single velco strap...... why do batteries and velco straps slide..... :o battery slide backwards when I decided to stop. Sudden change in cg was too much for the flight controller to adapt too and I managed to spike the tail into the ground with a 5m drop. Lucky this time o to nice soft grass!

Liking the airframe design, only damage was to the rear prop and a couple of zip ties.

Lucky I ordered more props yesterday. May need to order even more at this rate....

So ive fixed the battery tray last night so good for another test flight. At least I learn as I go, just wish id work these things before hand.  I'll see if I can get an assistant to take some pics.

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #291 on: July 15, 2014, 10:51:18 AM »
Bunnings sell some really good stick on velcro. I've put this on my batteries in the past to stop them moving around. It's much easier to use if the battery is mounted externally.

I've used the 10x4.7 SP props from Hobbyking. Cheaps as chips, but buy heaps. The number of props I've ordered that don't track properly and cause heaps of vibration are probably up around the 30% of all the props I've bought from HK. But they are cheap enough, so just buy double what you need if you are after vibration free props for video if you get the cheapies.

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #292 on: July 15, 2014, 04:53:12 PM »
Bunnings sell some really good stick on velcro. I've put this on my batteries in the past to stop them moving around. It's much easier to use if the battery is mounted externally.

I've used the 10x4.7 SP props from Hobbyking. Cheaps as chips, but buy heaps. The number of props I've ordered that don't track properly and cause heaps of vibration are probably up around the 30% of all the props I've bought from HK. But they are cheap enough, so just buy double what you need if you are after vibration free props for video if you get the cheapies.

Hi Marshy,

Yep was thinking sticky velco might do the trick.  I have plenty lying around, I'll give that a go as an additional safety (although I now have it on top of the tray with the strap stopping lateral movement and a block stopping forwards and backwards movement.

I have bought a few more props now, around 30 in total, so I should be good for a while.  I had 12 but I seem to be going through one or more each test flight (have killed 3 so far).  Been lucky that they have all been the CW props as I only have 2 CCW props, although by all accounts it will fly quite well if they are all CW.  Hoping that nothing else goes wrong on tonight's test filght, last nights would have been perfect if it wasnt for the battery weight shifting out the tail, a swinging battery is hard for the software to compensate for.

If all goes well tonight I'll fit the cheap action cam and FPV camera (not to fly with yet, want to get the hang of it using LOS first) this weekend and start to log some daylight hours.

I've been using 2200mAH batteries, and so far my 6 min flight took the battery to 65% with no camera's etc. Thinking I'll get around 10-12 mins from it once I put the camera's on.  I just ordered a 5000mAH so hoping I'll get at least 18-20 mins out of it once it arrives, then I can have some real good fun.

Chris
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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #293 on: July 15, 2014, 06:12:55 PM »
Gday Chris,

All of my batteries I've sourced from Hobbyking, so I've gone down the XT60 connector path. I recently soldered together three connectors to parallel two of my 2200's 3S to give me 4400 mAh. Haven't tried it out yet, but it's worked out well as far as counter balancing the new camera gimbal is concerned.

I'm looking forward to playing around with the waypoint navigation software that talks to the multiwii board via bluetooth. It will be interesting to see how far the bluetooth reception is.

Cheers, Marschy




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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #294 on: July 16, 2014, 01:12:15 PM »
Gday Chris,

All of my batteries I've sourced from Hobbyking, so I've gone down the XT60 connector path. I recently soldered together three connectors to parallel two of my 2200's 3S to give me 4400 mAh. Haven't tried it out yet, but it's worked out well as far as counter balancing the new camera gimbal is concerned.

I'm looking forward to playing around with the waypoint navigation software that talks to the multiwii board via bluetooth. It will be interesting to see how far the bluetooth reception is.

Cheers, Marschy

Hi Marschy,

Got most of my stuff off Hobby King too.  I now have worked out why I was breaking props so often.....  Turns out the black props I bought were carbon mixed, nice and light but not good for learning to fly a tricopter.  I also settled on the XT60 connector for my power.  It was a challenge to solder 3 x 16AWG + 1 x 18 AWG to the XT60 connector but I got there.  Bundled them together before hand and used some thin copper winding wire to bind them together.

Dont expect to much from Bluetooth, you'll get maybe 15-20m at best, otherwise it isnt following the bluetooth standard, your more likely to get around 10m range.

Last nights test flight went really well, luckily the playing field had all the lights on for me in the light rain (thankful that I have the hard case KK2 board and that the regular soccer games weren't on).  I used some thread lock on my motors earlier in the night and undid some of the cables, thought I put them back in the right order, sigh......  Double check it if you unplug it....  I flipped it on first attempt (motor 1 and 3 were swapped over), reassessed the wiring and it was all good from there.  Had it on two flights, total flight time was around 9 mins and the battery (3s - 2200mAH) was only down to 11.5 so I'm very happy with that.  I was just hovering and some flying patterns, so I expect that to reduce once I start to use it a bit more.  The self level feature seems pretty good, I tested it out a couple of times to see how good it was.

Was about to head up a 2nd time after I finished supervising an activity but they turned the lights off just as I was about to walk up to the park :-(

On a plus, since I'm using the plastic props now I'm not breaking them!!!!  Damn carbon mixed props......  Was wondering why only the rear prop was breaking on each crash.....  Was getting annoyed at how fast they were dying.

Still finding it very sensitive on the throttle (about 50% to take off, so really I'm using the top half of the stick, doesnt make for the best control), thinking of using some stick scaling or switching to heli mode to use a throttle curve, to make it a bit less sensitive.  I was wrong earlier, I didnt have expo on the throttle as I first thought I had.

I've also been reading up on tuning the P and I values.  I think it's pretty stable at present so might leave those for the time being until I'm more comfortable with it.

I'll do one more test flight tonight and then I'll work out how to attach the camera, so I'll see if I can post some footage after the weekend.

On a side note, it sure does draw a crowd.  Not want I wanted last night, as I'm still getting used to it.  Everyone seems to want to know more about it.  On a plus not one person was against them, saw it as something fun and cool.  They cant believe how inexpensive it was to build either.

I like the look of the MultiWii FC, I'll give it a bit more of a look in a few months.  I like the GPS and barometer stuff that can be easily integrated.
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Offline Crisp Image

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #295 on: July 16, 2014, 01:58:20 PM »
It sure looks like everyone is having fun with their flying toys.
I have not really had much of a chance to get out much but when I do I draw a crowd.
Can't wait to see some footage.
What servo are you using on the tri? I kept burning mine out so changed to a quad.
Have you flashed the KK.? There is better firmware. Than the stock one.
Regards
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Offline CBRK

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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #296 on: July 16, 2014, 02:17:08 PM »
It sure looks like everyone is having fun with their flying toys.
I have not really had much of a chance to get out much but when I do I draw a crowd.
Can't wait to see some footage.
What servo are you using on the tri? I kept burning mine out so changed to a quad.
Have you flashed the KK.? There is better firmware. Than the stock one.
Regards
Crispy

Hi Crispy,

Sure am having fun!  I'm using a Turnigy 380MG Micro Servo (Metal Gear) - 3.6kg / .15sec / 15.6g.  The servo you used was it metal gears?  Were you using a servo with nylon gears, they tend to wear fast in a tricopter.

I bought a 2nd one in case I damage it in a crash or I wear it out :-)  I have another nylon one floating about and I have several analogue metal ones from a plane I never finished (plus another 4 or so on an old trainer plane I used to fly) but they are heavier.

I have the usb board to program it but I haven't flashed it yet, wanted to see what the stock firmware did.  So far I'm pretty impressed.  Will take a look at the multiWii at some stage as I wouldn't mind an alt hold or gps functions in the future.

I'll put a GPS in soon but it will be to output to the OSD.

Chris
« Last Edit: July 16, 2014, 04:32:50 PM by CBRK »
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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #297 on: July 16, 2014, 02:43:55 PM »
Well done with the KK Chris, you've progressed much further than I did before I opted for GPS.

Either way

it sounds like you're hooked.

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Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #298 on: July 16, 2014, 09:19:04 PM »
Dont know what sort it was but when we were up on Gunlom Falls this fella had one that he was sending out over the cliff face and racing around with at sunset, $7000 he told us, it looked very friggin good


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Re: Remote controlled flying things-Quads, Hex, Octo or anything
« Reply #299 on: July 17, 2014, 10:53:23 AM »
Hello Chris,

Give some ESC's flashed with SimonK a go. I started off with my kit ESC's (Aliexpress with a JMT brand sticker but essentially Hobbyking SS30A ESC's) with stock firmware. Flashed my KK2.1 with 1.12Beginner (I think) and flew with the stock ESC firmware, after flashing with SimonK the stability improvement was remarkable.

The best way to describe the improvement is that the throttle response becomes very linear, i.e. 10% throttle seems like it is putting 10% power into the motors, 20%, 30% etc etc all the same, all very precise. And it doesn't seem to top out like some ESC's do when you go past 80 or 90% and you don't seem to get any further throttle response beyond a certain percentage, not so with SimonK.

There was also throttle lag with the original firmware, but this has improved as well. The only ESC that ran warm was the one supplying power to the flight control board, but I have since changed to a dedicated 5A UBEC.

I'm running SimonK TGY V2013-09-20 but there is a new release since this one, not sure what the improvements are though. Would need to visit his website to find out what is in each release.

I've got new Multistar 30A BEC and Opto speed controllers, but after reading the Hobbyking feedback for these controllers, people are reporting motors burning out after flashing with SimonK. Not sure if it's true, the feedback seems to indicate that it occurs more frequently with the latest batches of ESC's, but has now left me with a quandry, do I flash my new controllers or not. I've got some of my old kit motors that I can see if it will burn out, but even then, I don't want to burn out a motor just to prove a point.

Cheers, Marschy