Gun users advice needed

[jetcrew]

DISCLAIMER - I understand that guns are not for everyone and some people think that guns and kids do not mix, I understand and respect your opinion and ask that you afford me the same respect . No replies of why or don't or how many kids are killed by guns each year ect. I am allowed by law to supervise my child under sec 52 of the QLD weapons act
https://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/legisltn/current/w/weaponsa90.pdf 

Ok Gun users,

I am very fond of the .22 Magnum rounds so I want to add another .22Mag for the collection for ease of ammo and for the 16YO to begin his introduction to firearms. He will start out on a .177 air riffle first to learn muzzle discipline and handling principles. But will step up quickly so i want something ready. 

Now I was going to add another lever action .22mag to the mix, but given I want him to learn Military degrees of weapon readiness,unload/load/action/instant I think a bolt action with detachable magazine will be best as he can move through different states of weapon readiness easily. Load to unload , action to unload ect far more easily than a tube feed lever action.

So he is getting the .177 for X-Mas and then will step up to the .22Mag next year when I am satisfied he has the required discipline.

So I am looking for advice on a good .22MAG/WMR riffle.

I have found the

Marlin XT @ $339.00  4 / 7 shot mag

Savage 93 $465.00 5 shot mag

Looking for more options ideas in that price range.

Regards Jet

       

[chester ver2.0]

Just an opinion here from growing up on a farm

He will go through the air rifle so quick that it will be a waste of money and when he learns to handle it eventually it will be treated like a toy

At his age i would go straight to the 22 as he will understand it is a true cartrige powered fire arm and give it the respect they deserve

[noel_w]

Just an opinion here from growing up on a farm

He will go through the air rifle so quick that it will be a waste of money and when he learns to handle it eventually it will be treated like a toy

At his age i would go straight to the 22 as he will understand it is a true cartrige powered fire arm and give it the respect they deserve

Tend to agree (also grew up on a farm & had a .222 from 10yo)
I had an air rifle that sat in the cupboard from about day 3

[alnjan]

I agree with Chester too.  Forget the slug gun and start with the .22

[briann532]

Again just my 2 cents worth........

I grew with guns and they were a necessary way of life for me. At a very young age I had to know how to respect and handle a firearm. (Not a weapon!!! - A firearm. A weapon is something that is used to hurt or kill people. People kill people not firearms............ Sorry about the OT but I feel strongly about it!)

I agree, go for a .22. You said he was 16. He's not a kid anymore.

As far as choice goes, again just my opinion, but maybe get him to try a few and give him the choice.

Just remember to teach him, that you never load a weapon unless you intent firing it, and never point it at anything you don't intent shooting.

My personal choice for a 16yo 0.17 HMR savage.

Brian

[Tim - Stratford]

For a few dollars more you could look at the Ruger bolt rifles -available in 22RF, 17HMR & 22WMR. The actions are identical in function and still the same if you upsize to a .223 etc.

Detachable magazines in the rimfire variety and some centrefire models.

Great quality but a bit more expensive than other brands (Good resale though)

Tim

[jetcrew]

Some great points guys..

I have 1 acre of land. from the back patio to the rear fence is 40mtrs the fence is thick gauge roofing iron , behind that is 1klm of dense bush land. I will let you all work out why the .177 

 and we have lots and lots of toads 

Jet

[Tim - Stratford]

Toads! A .25 calibre air rifle might be in order - like launching house bricks at them! 

[Mace]

Yep, the 177 may fit the requirement!

If that's the case, then look at the option of a 22 hornet as a step up instead of the magnum. Center fire, which you can reload if you get that keen. Matter of fact, I have an old set of punches and dies, etc you can have.

[GanG]

With the benefit of more info.......Go the sluggy, shooting toads is excellent sport .17HMR is even better for popping them

IMO get a .22 cal sluggy as it can be used quite effectively to hunt and has a little more punch with a heavier slug. .177 is great for velocity, but you cant beat projectile weight for good penetration.

Don't be lulled by the propaganda re muzzle velocity etc, many use ultra light slugs etc to produce some fairly outrageous claims. A good .22 with a decent slug at moderate velocity is great for pest birds and bunnies etc.

I have a weirauch air rifle and rate it very highly......like most things you get what you pay for, you can buy cheap ones like a Gamo, and they are not much more than a toy and will quickly be abandoned.

edit to add, pop over to my other home on the web at www.australianhunting.net and have a browse mate, there are alot of threads on there in a similar vein 

[lino6]

I have a .22 cal air rifle under lever. Its a great gun for some of the fun target type stuff. It doesn't have the muzzle velocity of a .177, but its still a fun thing. Thats where my opinion becomes less relevant as my other firearm is a 410 single barrel shotgun.

[Renno]

I use my Beaman r9 .20 more than any of the others.  Kept a gamo .177 for Ryan to learn with. It is chalk and cheese. Gamo is more like a toy...
Renno 

[jetcrew]

Thanks for the GR8 info guys ,I am not one of those people who get all misty about muzzle velocity bit like boxing featherweight vs heavy weight  speed and power are not always the same untill you NEED distance, then you sacrifice one for the other or step your size up.

The 17hmr is a great fast flat traj but at 100mtrs IMHO the .22wmr has a better impact at that range. it is that age old speed V's impact.

I will stick with the .22wmr as I have that already and can't see where the advantage lies for me to go 17hmr as it would only be of benefit if I was to hunt game of small size at distances over 100mtrs. this is not likely as I have a 243 that takes care of anything over 100mtrs.

From what i can see and not personally tested .. is that under 100mtrs the .22wmr has a better punch then the 177hmr. over 100mtrs the faster veloicty of the 177hmr puts it out in front.

As for the .177 I was just going to go a cheap gamo $220 inc scope as it will not even accompany us on trips away, as I will, already have 4 riffles with us.

A bit of a play thing for home and a learning aid but when away on trips it's powder only and switch on .

Jet        

[lino6]

Might need one of these for home too 

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEW-Max-Target-Knockdown-2-Duck-Resetting-Air-Rifle-Target-Pellet-Trap-Shoot-/171110348955?pt=AU_Hunting&hash=item27d6f8b89b

 

[dirtpilot]

I have a Marlin .22 mag. Nothing wrong with them. Savage is regarded better quality. For 300 bucks the Marlin would be a good first rifle.

[GMac]

edit to add, pop over to my other home on the web at www.australianhunting.net and have a browse mate, there are alot of threads on there in a similar vein 

Yep, do this, heaps of info!! I spend quite a bit of time there too. 

Interestingly, I have .22lr in both the Marlin and the Savage 93, both are good rifles.  The Savage is left hand for me, but the Marlin is right for my wife.  The boy will probably use this when he is older (still only 4).  It can be a topic that gets some heated, but I grew up being taught the discipline of using a gun safely.  I think it teaches a kid a great deal about responsibility and I personally can't wait to the time where I can pass this on to my boy!!

Mate I am just down the road from you, give me a yell if you want to have a look to help with the decision making!!

Cheers

Greg 

[Homer_Jay]

Mate, just be very careful with the sluggy at home. It's not like it used to be when we were kids.
If someone sees you or your lad with the gun and has a hissy fit then you are in it big time.

The crazy thing is, if I walk outside with a plastic toy kids gun and someone rings the cops and says they are 'scared and feel threatened' then mr plod turns up and takes my firearms!

Crazy world now days.

On the type, all I can say is make sure you get him a 22LR cheapest fun you can have! My little CZ has had thousands of rounds through it. I have a 22 break barrel air rifle but it never gets used. It's got plenty of power for what it is, but it is still quite loud (for shooting toads). In fact the 22LR with the right ammo is actually quieter.

Good luck. It's a good hobby to get him into. Teaches respect and responsibility.

[SambOz]

Toads! A .25 calibre air rifle might be in order - like launching house bricks at them! 

Calibre creep rears it head.........

[GanG]

Calibre creep rears it head.........

LOL too true.......no shooting thread worth reading is immune from it

[HEM19X]

Theo, Agree with Homer Jay, the world has changed AND you have already had some dramas with the neighbours, haven't you?

Maybe a local gun club is the place for the boy to shoot.

[Sawed-Off]

Go the Savage.

[jetcrew]

Theo, Agree with Homer Jay, the world has changed AND you have already had some dramas with the neighbours, haven't you?

Maybe a local gun club is the place for the boy to shoot.

Don't stress guys all is in hand I have access to lots of land near by so no issues, I am not going to turn my back yard into a shooting range



Jet

[jetcrew]

Don't you love it when your plan goes out the door .

Been to the gunshop and the boy is getting a savage 223 package.

Air riffle was checked as it was $300 for anything good

Could not find any .22wmr that I wanted.

So the 223 at $500 for a package won out.

Now I am seriously considering selling my Winchester lever and getting myself a very nice tika t3 that had pic rail large bolt handle and 15 shot mag . What a nice riffle it was.but at $1400 no scope I need to sell/ trade the whinchester I think .

Now a question for you all

The tika had a very tight riffling twist in the barrel which will give me the ability to punch out 70g rounds but will this mean that 55g will not run so good.

Any feedback on the tika , felt awesome in my hands very smooth and well machined.

Jet

[achjimmy]

Don't you love it when your plan goes out the door .

Been to the gunshop and the boy is getting a savage 223 package.

Air riffle was checked as it was $300 for anything good

Could not find any .22wmr that I wanted.

So the 223 at $500 for a package won out.

Now I am seriously considering selling my Winchester lever and getting myself a very nice tika t3 that had pic rail large bolt handle and 15 shot mag . What a nice riffle it was.but at $1400 no scope I need to sell/ trade the whinchester I think .

Now a question for you all

The tika had a very tight riffling twist in the barrel which will give me the ability to punch out 70g rounds but will this mean that 55g will not run so good.

Any feedback on the tika , felt awesome in my hands very smooth and well machined.

Jet

Jet the savage packages are great value, I bought a simalar one a couple of months ago. Don't you just love how a trip to the gunshop ends up costing you two or three rifles? What calibre is the lever action? I have been thinking of one myself.

[GanG]

Potentially the fast twist barrel may not shoot the lighter pills as well.......depends alot on the rifle. Personally I would not buy a fast twist unless you are looking at long range bench rest comp where the faster twist and heavier pills come into their own.

As an allrounder for small critters a standard 1:12 twist will be just fine for 40 - 55gr pills.