Slow down in the wet.

[D4D]

...kinda defies the laws of physics......

Run an object along a rough surface like concrete then run the same object along the same surface with oil on it and see what happens. With the same momentum when you go from high friction to low friction the object accelerates due to less friction. Or in the case of aquaplaning your tyres are sitting on top of the water and in a low friction state hence you have no control and accelerate. Maybe we need to break the slipnslide out at the next meet

[alnjan]

Yup and you accelerate, he may have even aquaplaned. But Lost appears to be an accident investigator and is contradicting all the witnesses and the police so we'll believe his armchair expert opinion instead

For once I will agree with Lost and D4D.   You do not have to be exceeding the speed limit to be considered to be going too fast.  You are simply going too fast for the road conditions.  When you look at the footage, he was definitely going too fast.   I know the road the cruiser and caravan is coming down, slight down hill run but still plenty of room to see the intersection. 

For the driver to make the statement he knew there was oil and given the already wet conditions the driver was travelling too fast for the combined conditions.  The simple acid test is, did any other vehicle skid into the intersection as this one did?  ABS is great if you need to steer around an object while braking but in this case the caravan has just continued pushing the turning 200 and jack knifed it.  Ultimately that has saved their lives, but still too fast for the conditions of the road.

[Mrs smith]

Any of you experts considered he may have already skidded and picked up speed before
he appeared on the footage ?

[Pog]

No - beacuse he was going too fast.

[alnjan]

Any of you experts considered he may have already skidded and picked up speed before
he appeared on the footage ?

Which says he was already travelling too fast for the conditions

[rockygu4.8]

I will not make comment on what others has said but will say as a previous fire fighter I have seen some very strange happenings on the roads over the years. I also believe if anyone knows road conditions and what is acceptable and what is not its a truck driver that lives on the road. Brad has defended himself well and explained what has happened and had his story verified by others actually there and police. How anyone can honestly say he was going to fast when you did not see what happened prior to the car coming into view on the video. Only Brad knows exactly what happened and by his description did all he thought he had to do to drive to the conditions. Some of you are so quick to judge I just hope none of you end up in a situation like this and feel the need to defend yourself. Good luck with that. Just my 2 cents worth and my opinion.

[Pog]

Just because he has a MC licence doesn't make him a good driver. A lot of my mates have got their MC and HC licences in the last few years, and never driven a truck, other than the driving test. He says he is a truck driver, so I should believe him. (It might be a little delivery truck for all we know).

A driver with a lot of experience, that has noticed a lot of oil on a wet road, towing a bloody big van behind a fairly big car.... was probably going too fast!

[D4D]

Just because he has a MC licence doesn't make him a good driver. A lot of my mates have got their MC and HC licences in the last few years, and never driven a truck, other than the driving test. He says he is a truck driver, so I should believe him. (It might be a little delivery truck for all we know).

A driver with a lot of experience, that has noticed a lot of oil on a wet road, towing a bloody big van behind a fairly big car.... was probably going too fast!

Conversely, the driver may have been driving large trucks for years and be very experienced, he may have even been near home and have years of experience on that section of road. You're making assumptions on a situation you did not witness so you can't make an authoritative statement. It may have just been an unfortunate accident.

[Coiled]

I won't pass judgement on whether he was going too fast

I do however think this sort of incident serves as a good reminder that the modern 4wd be it a 200series or Jeep GC or dual cab ute etc all have a lot more power and comfort than what we had 15-20 years ago which do a great deal to mask the weight & resulting physics of what swings along behind us. I can't help but think that is what gets people into trouble sometimes.

[baldheadedgit]

What more to you need.
Stop giving him a hard time,, yes he was going to fast, but how fast is fast.. 10k, 20k, 40 k's...  if he was doing 10k's, and lost traction, outcome may have been different, but still may have got into trouble.! then you still say he was going to fast...!!

When we left Woody Head, I commented to my wife about the amount of oil on the road. The posted speed limit is 100kph, I travelled at 80kph, through the small town, the speed limit is 50kph, I travelled at 40kph. As I approached the intersection I was breaking as per the conditions of the road and was successfully breaking. At about the last 50 to 30 metres the car started to slide and the ABS started operating and was doing nothing to slow the slide. As I have electronice brakes on the van that where working and adjusted correctly, I attempted to use the manual operation but that had no affect either. I had two choices….enter the intersection travelling straight or try to turn left to avoid crossing the intersection. I decided to turn left. This caused a jack knife of the car and van….now I don’t know if that was the right decision or not. BUT If the van hadn’t have jack knifed we would have been hit right at the drivers door…..I will leave the rest to your vivid imagination Garth and Renae.

I spoke to the truck driver and he said it did not look like I was going fast. Even the police officer who viewed the video said the same. I can assure you I was not speeding and the police report will state that.

my 2 bob

BHG

[Fly Fisher]

I will not make comment on what others has said but will say as a previous fire fighter I have seen some very strange happenings on the roads over the years. I also believe if anyone knows road conditions and what is acceptable and what is not its a truck driver that lives on the road. Brad has defended himself well and explained what has happened and had his story verified by others actually there and police. How anyone can honestly say he was going to fast when you did not see what happened prior to the car coming into view on the video. Only Brad knows exactly what happened and by his description did all he thought he had to do to drive to the conditions. Some of you are so quick to judge I just hope none of you end up in a situation like this and feel the need to defend yourself. Good luck with that. Just my 2 cents worth and my opinion.

Well said

You can not tell from that video that he approached the intersection to fast. He might have well and truly been going slow enough to stop safely at the intersection before the car hit oil on the road.

A lot of you are very quick to judge this poor guy based on the video, and you certainly don't know all contributing factors. The benefit of doubt should be given to Brad

[lino6]

No one dead, that's gotta be the best of the bad situation.

[GeoffA]

Run an object along a rough surface like concrete then run the same object along the same surface with oil on it and see what happens. With the same momentum when you go from high friction to low friction the object accelerates due to less friction. Or in the case of aquaplaning your tyres are sitting on top of the water and in a low friction state hence you have no control and accelerate. Maybe we need to break the slipnslide out at the next meet

A reduction in the rate of deceleration is not acceleration, although in some situations it would certainly feel like it.

[DannyG]

He crashed because he was driving a Toyota and an imported caravan

[Marcus73]

He crashed because he was driving a Toyota and an imported caravan

For once I totally agree Danny. Had he been driving a Nissan he would have been safely parked further back down the road awaiting roadside assist.


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[markpeh]

Makes me glad I tow a trackabout not a 3 ton caravan. It is so easy to come across a situation that shows you should have been traveling slower. The heavier uour rig the greater the potential consequences.

[Clouty]

I will not make comment on what others has said but will say as a previous fire fighter I have seen some very strange happenings on the roads over the years. I also believe if anyone knows road conditions and what is acceptable and what is not its a truck driver that lives on the road. Brad has defended himself well and explained what has happened and had his story verified by others actually there and police. How anyone can honestly say he was going to fast when you did not see what happened prior to the car coming into view on the video. Only Brad knows exactly what happened and by his description did all he thought he had to do to drive to the conditions. Some of you are so quick to judge I just hope none of you end up in a situation like this and feel the need to defend yourself. Good luck with that. Just my 2 cents worth and my opinion.

Well said..

[MarkGU]

For once I totally agree Danny. Had he been driving a Nissan he would have been safely parked further back down the road awaiting roadside assist.


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only a wobbly box ( caravan) owner would pack up in the wet and driving a Toymota he wanted to get out before the place turned to mud 

[UIZ733]

Hope everybody involved bought a lotto ticket.

[Brij]

What evidence do we have presented to us over the internet?
- a dash cam video showing 3 seconds of out of control Landcruiser and caravan.
- an obviously wet road
- a number of commentators saying they know the particular section of road and comments of the near misses they have had
- a truck that doesn't appear to slow or deviate at all (yes I know there appears to be a car approaching that probably meant he couldn't move to his left, and the truck does appear to have spun. This could of been caused by the truck driver taking some evasive action that can't be picked up by the dash cam, but in my opinion probably more likely to be the resultant drag caused by the impact on the LHS of the truck and trailer)
- a seemingly very detailed explanation offered by the supposed Landcruiser driver

Not a lot of detail to draw to many conclusions from.

Some of my thoughts -
- it would of been nice to hear the truck back off a bit when the Landcruiser appeared, particularly in light of the other comments regarding this being a notorious intersection.
- I have attended numerous accidents where diesel/oil has leaked onto the bitumen (sometimes before the accident, sometimes the result of). When the road is wet (from rain or when trying to wash the oil off the road) you sometimes have trouble standing up let alone trying to slow a vehicle on it.
- the Landcruiser driver appears to have started the turn to the left right as he appears on video. A very smart move as it turns out, effectively reducing the length of the combination by about 6m and hitting the side of the truck instead of being T boned. I doubt whether someone that wasn't concentrated would be able to do that. Most of the "panic" scenarios I have seen involve the driver smashing the brake pedal and that is all, with nil or negligable evasive action.
- oil on the road? I would think so. Nothing seems to stop quicker than a vehicle going sideways. But in this video the Landcruiser is not slowing at all, no matter which direction it is pointing. Lack of traction would also explain why the Landcruiser hasn't been able to veer to the left. ABS is only going to allow the steer wheels to vary the trajectory of the vehicle if they have traction.

From all the truck vs car crashes I have seen over the years it isn't often I will not be blaming the car driver (recently in my local area over the period of 4 weeks we have had 3 truck vs car crashes resulting in 4 fatalities. All the evidence appears to suggest the causes have been the car drivers being distracted).

In this case, with the evidence at hand (which isn't much!) I will still be blaming the Landcruiser driver (we have to blame someone right?). The Landcruiser just happened to strike a lot heavier patch of oil than he was expecting. Oil at the intersection could also explain why the truck has spun so easily. It isn't often I have seen a light vehicle manage to affect the stability of  a heavy vehicle. Usually only the result of a head on (not side impact), with the change in trajectory of the truck started by the the truck drivers evasive action (which doesn't appear to have happened in this case).

How many of us would drive along in the wet thinking "Gee, the roads a bit slippery today. Must be something on it. I better double (triple, quadruple..........) my stopping distance at the next intersection because it is bound to be a lot worse there!"

Peter

[Pog]

Brij, the linked articles on the first page offer a bit more detail, and the driver certainly claims there was oil on the road.

[MarkGU]

"it would of been nice to hear the truck back off a bit when the Landcruiser appeared"

at a presumed speed of 100klm/h the truck ( loaded) would maybe have wiped off maybe 10klm/h in that short distance.
 at a presumed speed of 100 klm/h the truck ( unloaded) may have wiped off more speed BUT the unloaded trailer in the wet  would have jack knifed either to the right or the left hand side. with a vehicle on BOTH sides with an out of control trailer the outcome would have been very different IMO.

in saying that, i reckon the truck driver on purpose held his line and most likely his speed and " drove through it" saving the life of number one........his own.

just my thoughts.

[Bird]

shame the vids has been removed...

[Dion]

Don't forget that dash cams always accentuate the perception of speed ... so the Cruiser may look to be going fast but I doubt he is. 

Just a bad case of bad timing ... had the truck not been there the Cruiser would have just sailed onto the road and come to a stop.  Owner changes jocks and drives off.

At about the last 50 to 30 metres the car started to slide and the ABS started operating and was doing nothing to slow the slide. As I have electronice brakes on the van that where working and adjusted correctly, I attempted to use the manual operation but that had no affect either.

Hindsight is always 20/20, but using the van brakes would have been even more pointless than the ABS brakes in wet/oily conditions. 

[GanG]

Clip has been taken down now........a pity as I wanted to have another look see.