LED Lights interfering with Digital TV

[nbd73]

Hi All,
Recently I had foxtel disconnected from home and went back to regular digital TV. Much to my disappointment Ch9 (& all related channels ie 94,95,90,99) weren't viewable, but not every night or every day.  I contacted our local antenna man to investigate. He fitted an antenna booster but still same problem. And now we get to the point of this post: his advice is that modern day LED lights, cordless drill battery chargers and other elec devices can and will play havoc with digital TV signals.  Never heard of it, but wondering if anyone has experienced this in a camping environment.  I ditched my aerial and went satellite for my 12v TV, but now wondering if the LED lights in the CT may not have been a major contributing factor to the poor/non-existent reception.  As an aside, the antenna man claimed that the federal govt takes free to air TV reception very seriously and considers it virtually a birth right.  He had an official complaint form which I signed and gets sent to the govt, then they investigate and instruct the offending party(s) to stop using the appliances etc in question.  Repeat offences can incur a $10,000 fine.  Repeat offenders can be jailed.  At least this is what the antenna man told me, I make no claim to knowing this.  Either way, interesting to learn.  He walked up & down my street on both sides with an antenna hooked up to a signal meter and was able to pinpoint exactly the offending household, and surprise, surprise they have foxtel.  In fact, the majority of the street do, and so they would be oblivious to poor reception, unless they have satellite fox and want to watch free to air gem, one or mate which are not broadcast on satellite foxtel (at least that was the case when I disconnected).

[baldheadedgit]

Funny you should say that,,,
A mate of mine had a lousy signal also.. tv guy came and looked... ahh you have electric fence.....! disconect it... problem solved..? work that one out.?
Meanwhile i had a sparky at my place, he said hows the signal for the tv in the garage.? ok i said, pixelates from time to time.. turn the Antenae 180 degs he said,.? New mast on top of Kurrajong...! bingo. no probs perfect picture all the time..
No one tell you about other locations for transmitters, you just assume there where they have always been..
Check your local area, could be another transmitter to deal with fringe users, oh,, and dont expect the tv guy to know either..we turn my mates antenae round also,, turned the fence back on... and what do you know....

BHG

[D4D]

Recently I had foxtel disconnected from home and went back to regular digital TV.

You didn't get made a stupid offer to stay with Foxtel? The missus called to disconnect after 5 years, she got upgraded to a IQ2, more channels and half the price of what we were paying

[baldheadedgit]

You didn't get made a stupid offer to stay with Foxtel? The missus called to disconnect after 5 years, she got upgraded to a IQ2, more channels and half the price of what we were paying

lol they know how to keep a customer...

try this nbd73
http://ozdigitaltv.com/transmitters/QLD

[Nay-DMAX]

Friends of ours had similar trouble but with their tv turning on and off on it's own and I think changing channels they were told the same thing change the type of light globe you have.  Think it fixed it for awhile but still some issues I am not sure what other devices they have in their place.  One of our TV's is more sensitive and will cut the signal in and out if you walk past it (old house on stumps) and even sometimes if a truck drives past or someone turns a light on in the room next door haha

[HKB Electronics]

That is the problem with digital TV, you'll either get a good picture or none!

It won't be the led lights it will be the cheap power supply unit the drives them.
If it is the light electronic transformer you'll only have a problem with the lights on.

If it comes and goes, try turning of all the circuits via circuit breakers in your fuse box
except for the tv circuit and see if you can isolate to something in the house or an external source.

If it's an external source it is not going to be easy to find unless you can get however is responsible
for TV interference to come out and track it down, used to be PMG no idea who it is these days possibly
the ACMA.

Did the antenna tech check the coax and antenna were ok?

Fitting an amp to an antenna that is already receiving interference will not help as you'll only amplify the
noise. You could try a new digital only antenna if your still using an old combo it might help.

Leigh
 

[cheif carlos]

I do rememeber a few years ago they (our rep from Legrand/HPM) where talking at getting LED manufactures to sign up to I think it was a 20,000khz (or something around that) agreement or something like that as heep units where found to be affecting computers/data signals.

As said above the problem proberbly starts with power supply and gets amplifide from there.

[nbd73]

Leigh, I have no expertise when it comes to electronics, hence engagement of local business.  He checked my house thoroughly before venturing outside, including a switchboard shutdown & restart.  As per my qualifier n OP I am looking for other people's experience with this and/or raising the topic for thought. The antenna man is a registered local business who "seems" to know what he is talking about.  Until proven otherwise I have to assume his advice is sound.

[Ian Wilkinson]

A couple of days before we headed off on a 3 month trip I replaced a few down lights with LEDs. The rooms I replaced them in had at least one dead bulb so I figured I might as well just put in LED's to all those lights.

I noticed when we got back home that when we turn the light on in the bathroom the TV reception turns to crap n a couple of the channels. Maybe it's because of the LED's I installed

Same transformer, just swapped the bulbs. I figured something must have happened to the antenna alignment but the LED bulb makes more sense. Might try changing them back in the bathroom and see what happens.

[nbd73]

You didn't get made a stupid offer to stay with Foxtel? The missus called to disconnect after 5 years, she got upgraded to a IQ2, more channels and half the price of what we were paying

No, and that's one of the reasons I am not sad to say goodbye to it: they seem more interested in getting new customers than keeping existing ones happy.  Not the only large scale organisation that is guilty of this though. Yep, no offer, just a simple"please return STB and power lead when the return paid slip arrives in the mail.

[Mandrake]

I installed LED downlight replacements in our TV room and other main use areas - Large pixelation occurred - called in my mate Jim -- checked the Antrenna , cables and said ..
Dunno mate everything is good... switch off LEDs and picture returns ... Jim still says no idea --
So I have removed those 12V  downlights and put in the new 240V low energy jobbies !! Problem solved...
Mandrake

[Marschy]

If you had halogens and have simply changed the MR16 halogen globes for LED equivalent globes, the problem could be the iron core transformer that came with the halogens.

The LED equivalent for MR16 halogens needs a rectified/filtered transformer.

Cheers, Marschy

[nbd73]

I received this today from the Australian Communications and Media Authority via email:
"Thank you for your email regarding interference at Redland Bay. A task, number 5041313 has been created and a field officer will make contact in due course. However a new issue has arisen lately affecting digital TV around 6pm onwards. There is a problem with a certain model of 12v LED down lights causing this interference and ACMA is aware of this issue and steps are being taken to resolve this. You may be able to locate the offending LED globe by talking with your neighbours and switching off the power to houses one at a time."
The antenna man suggested that the some LED's can actually emit a small amount of "radiation", not sure on this but the effects seem to be a bit more widespread than first thought.

[bobnrob]

He had an official complaint form which I signed and gets sent to the govt, then they investigate and instruct the offending party(s) to stop using the appliances etc in question.  Repeat offences can incur a $10,000 fine.  Repeat offenders can be jailed.

Gaoled for charging my cordless drill, or turning my lights on !!!
I'd love to see the 1st case  lol

[Dion]

Do you have quad shield TV cable?

I've got a few LED lights in my place, no issues with TV reception.  (my LED lights are 240V versions though).

[nbd73]

Dion, the antenna man had a gadget that measures strength and quality of signal which he used in my street and I walked beside him as he went up and down my street and judging by the readings from it I dont personally think it would make much difference what I have > the quality of the signal being received is the key factor in question in this instance.  No amount of shielding etc will make up for poor signal to begin with.  My suspicion is that digital TV is not the solution it was once purported to be, but more to the point of my OP the issue is whether modern tech lighting and power solutions are able to distort the picture.  Nevertheless I will look at my cables etc and eliminate those variables from the equation also.  A solution is required or God forbid I may have to return to the dark side and reinstall the rip off. Time and persistence will tell...

[Dion]

You're only in Redland Bay ... you would almost have line of sight to Mt Coo-tha.  I doubt you have signal issues there.

The idea of quad shielded antenna cable is to remove interference from other sources (e.g. localised interference such as what LED light transformers can put out). 

I'm not sure how your TV antenna guy is able to "pinpoint" a house as being a culprit because the amount of E-M radiation that would be needed to upset TV reception at your house many doors away would be pretty significant, and it's a pretty long bow to blame Li-ion chargers etc!  In fact most devices are tested for E-M radiation as part of their compliancing ... so I struggle to see the validity of his comments.  To be honest,  I have very little respect for TV antenna "experts" after seeing their rip-off jobs on two relatives' houses (that's a whole other story).

I run a decent quality aerial, quad shield everywhere (I have four TV outlets in my house), and have zero issues and perfect reception.  I do have line of sight to Mt Cootha (I'm in Coorparoo) but still.

Quality cable, quality aerial, no issues.  It's not rocket science.  Cabling includes a good quality cable from the wall to the TV, not the cheap one that you may have got 20 years ago with a VCR.

Like I said, I recently installed 5x LED 240V replacement lights into the pendant light in the bedroom and noticed no change in signal quality (and there is a TV in the bedroom).

[nbd73]

Dion, actually we don't have good line of sight to Mt Cootha, though I do believe there is a repeater tower at mt Cotton (could be wrong, going off what I am told yet again which seems to be digging me a hole).  I take on  board your pessimism towards antenna men, but the case he put forward does add up> not every night, only after dark/after work hours (ie people home to switch appliances/lights on) and originating froma household that has foxtel (ie does not ever use free to air reception so oblivious to any potential problem).  My house is 2005 vintage and all the cabling is newer plus not cheap kmart garbage but premium grade as recommended by Todd's hifi.  Will still check this as that fact alone does not  guarantee anything.  Fingers crossed the problem lies somewhere in the cables, but I am somewhat doubtful that the antenna man would fake it to the extent required to report the problem to a government organisation.  Still interested to know if this has affected anyone in a camping environment given the prevalence of LED lights in 12v applications on CT's.

[toeball]

I'm on the top of a hill at Ormeau, we loose signal on the 7's and 9's if it's overcast, windy, wet weather and if lights get turned on and off. Never had much trouble with SBS or ABC, I figure the Gov must have at least done one thing right!

[Jenko67]

We have shocking reception in brissy and we are about 12kms from mt cootha..... We can't get 9 or 10 associated channels, have had booster installed and tried everything.... PITA...that is why we still have fox... Fox would be gone tomorrow......

[envee]

Had a problem with the picture pixalating intermittently. Had a TV "expert" around and he changed the amplifier, redid the connections etc. No change. Went onto the digital TV site and got the number for a recommended installer who was local. First thing he did was disconnect the amplifier because the signal was too strong. He spent a couple of hours here and was a bit mystified but gave me the number of a guy from the local power authority who was an expert in tracing interference. Turns out the problem was one of the electronic transformers for the downlights we have over the breakfast bar. Once I changed them, no more problems.  Bet the neighbour is happy too..........he'd been up on the roof several times, changing the antenna and pointing it in all sorts of directions.  I should let him know I suppose.........

[HKB Electronics]

There's a few things at play here.

If we assume the problem is LED lighting then what type of LED are we talking about?

You can get units that's simply replace the halogen globes, these bulbs therefore must
have a rectify block and built in regulator. I have this type and have no problems with
interference.

The second type have a low voltage electronic power supply separate to the globe, I
suspect these if elchepo power supply is used may be the culprit.

Possibly you can also get 240V versions of the globes which would have an inbuilt
power supply but not sure on this one.

Next to consider is where is the interference getting into the tele, might not be as
simple as the aerial, could be getting in via the coax, interconnecting wires form the TV
to other equipment or via the 240V power.

If you know your lights are the source then you may be able to stop it at the source by
either using a better quality power supply or globe. Alternatively by putting a ferrite traps
on the low voltage side of the electronic power supply if there is one, or at the globe if the isn't one.

If that doesn't work the I would also try one on the 240V side.

Leigh

[sanz]

Recently installed some fancy LED lights in the camper (just touch the outside to turn them on and off ... sourced from Jaycar). Was not an issue until we picked up a 12v TV. Switch the light on and get the "No Signal" message on ALL channels on the TV ... switch off and the signal comes back. Move a large solid object between the light and TV and channels come back although pixilated. Definite interference. Have read of similar with household LED lights and certain frequency bands, mostly channel 7 I think.

Shame as the lights are great as no need for inline switches. Light is super bright as well and perfect for reading.

[briann532]

I am well aware of this issue as a heap of customers have complained about leds affecting their tv's.

My first questions is "what leds are you using?" And guaranteed its always the cheapy's.........

Good gear has a price. There is a reason.
There is also a reason for all the regs surrounding emf interference, etc etc..........

Last couple of years I've been using SAL ecogem leds and haven't had a problem yet. I buy them by the pallet so I do get a good price, but they are still comparably cheap to the so called "cheap"
No grief, happy customers, heaps of light and fully compliant.
And to top it off you can still get a perfect picture on the idiot box.

Cheers Brian

[nelso]

Interesting point about the electric fence interference. Many years ago when dial up modems were all we had to get on the "The Internets" there would be people call up with intermittent dropouts of their modem.

After a while a pattern formed - they were usually rural customers and they often had electric fences. Often it would be worse during or after rain. The fence emits a pulse and would be amplified by the damp ground and find its way to the copper phone line = modem droput!