Author Topic: researching for/against: gas fitted cooker on budget Camper or portable cooker?  (Read 7603 times)

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Offline meandclan

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PROJECT: Im trying to compare the pros and cons of  installed or portable basic 2 rings -oven - grill or possibly just a 2 ring cooker –grill . (Prices on 3 ring gas cooker models will be considered as well) After the price, the other three main factors need to be weighed up as well so I'm looking for advice.

1) COST: It’s quite a few hundred dollars difference for an installable 2-3 burner SMEV compared to a huge range of portable cookers. So is it best to buy already fitted cooker or buy a bigger portable cooking setup using the money saved on installation? I’m confident cooking gear would easily be stored. Even on an internal storage slide if I decided to get even flasher with a portable cooker & grill option.

2) SAFETY:  Does an Australian gas fitter have to test the cooker and pipework to certify it safe to use after coming from an overseas factory? Perhaps a company employee only does a visual inspection of the gas cooking units fitted to each trailer body.The alternative that costs a bit more is using Australian tradesman to do installation.   Hmmm it’s not like the gas cooker is as important as the axle or springs so worth the gamble?

3) WORKMANSHIP: I think skill and experience is the great unknown of gas cooking installations. What risk if tradesman are not qualified for the critical weld work, but as usual it’s the old But the price is so cheap dilemma.

4) QUALITY: I’ve haven’t much clue about this but I read somewhere >> to be very careful about installed gas cookers with the incorrect “particle control”(??)  Apparently it makes many totally unsuitable for travelling off the road in a bouncing trailer. Does anyone know what specifications I need to watch for? 

thanks guys.. Kev
ps please dont post names of Camper trailers, just gas cookers so thread stays on track.

 
« Last Edit: March 09, 2013, 06:28:26 PM by meandclan »

Offline Mace

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Re 2. Any permanently installed cooker/oven/griller needs to be fitted/certified by a Registered Gas Accredited Plumber/gasfitter.  This should be done in the factory by the constructor, or can be done  later by a local plumber if you put one in. So, relating back to 1, be it an expensive Smev or a cheap chinese version, they should both be installed to the same standard.

So, as a follow on, if you go for a portable devices - Companion, portable gas ring, etc, you can set up yourself  the required high pressure or regulated supply from a CT mounted or portable bottle  that they require.  If you go a non-regulated portable supply, the longest supply hose length available is usually 1.2metres. With an accredited regulated supply, you can have longer distances between the permanently mounted and plumbed bottle and the cooker.

Some people have some very ingeniously installed "portable" units that are quite legal.  8)

 :cheers:
« Last Edit: March 09, 2013, 07:33:46 PM by Mace »
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Offline geopaj

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Luke from Drifta Kitchens makes some interesting points and recommends just using a portable 3 burner stove (but bolted to the kitchen)...
http://www.drifta.com.au/settFAQ.php#cistove

I followed this advice when I made my kitchen and have been happy.
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Offline meandclan

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recommends just using a portable 3 burner stove (but bolted to the kitchen)...

I followed this advice when I made my kitchen and have been happy.
Yes it all seems perfectly logical now for two good reasons
1. the tailgate is the place of highest vibration on a trailer which makes it less than perfect to install as the particles in gas cookers can disintegrate.
2. The biggest Doooh was that I definitely do not need a cooker fixed to the trailer; because cooking is best done outside the tent unless the weather is terrible.
Thanks to all for the advice, its a big learning curve thats for sure.
Kev

Offline Bird

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Yes it all seems perfectly logical now for two good reasons
1. the tailgate is the place of highest vibration on a trailer which makes it less than perfect to install as the particles in gas cookers can disintegrate.
2. The biggest Doooh was that I definitely do not need a cooker fixed to the trailer; because cooking is best done outside the tent unless the weather is terrible.

1 - how many thousands of trailers are out there ~10-15+ years old with cooker on the tailgate permanently fitted with no or very little issue.
add to that how many trailers come with the tailgate option, so it cant be all bad.
2 - once open,  the tailgate is outside the tent.

FWIW, I used to do the external burner, now have tailgate mounted kitchen, and would never go back, its awesome to have it all just there, clip the hose on with quick fits, and your cooking.

YMMV.
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Offline rodsswag

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This is quite a personal preference question.
It all depends on what sort of camping you do.
A stove fitted in your CT is great so it is always there just like plug and play. Like Lost said.
On the other hand a portable stove (not fixed down) you can take it down to the river and cook your hotdogs beside the water for lunch.
If it is fixed it has it be certified by a registered gas fitter.
Both ways a fantastic but I think the main thing is just enjoy the out doors in this great country.
 :cheers:


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Offline muzza01

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I thought that the inbuilt camper stoves only needed inspecting if the plumbing was permanent.  I could be wrong but if the hose is not permanently connected to the stove or gas bottle it doesn't need an inspection.  As soon as the hose is affixed to the trailer it does need an inspection.

Offline dazzler

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I would go portable.  Portably secure the cooktop so that it is portably secure and then portably secure the gas bottle with a gas hose.  Its portable because you have to 'port' the gas bottle to have it filled.

Portable is good. Nice and secure.
My alternative to cheap import trailers;

http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=36094.msg578367#msg578367


Offline kylarama

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These look okay for the price (compared to the Smev's) and low pressure too.  No need for a gas fitter.



http://www.raysoutdoors.com.au/online-store/products/Gasmate-4-Burner-Low-Pressure-Stove.aspx?pid=340155&menuFrom=20303#Cross

Offline Bird

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Quote from: rodsswag
On the other hand a portable stove (not fixed down) you can take it down to the river and cook your hotdogs beside the water for lunch.
we put the hotdogs in the thermos for that :)
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Offline Bill

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I thought that the inbuilt camper stoves only needed inspecting if the plumbing was permanent.  I could be wrong but if the hose is not permanently connected to the stove or gas bottle it doesn't need an inspection.  As soon as the hose is affixed to the trailer it does need an inspection.
We have to connect our stove (via a flexible hose) to the pipe work permanently fitted to our Aussie Swag and I had to get a gas certificate to get the road worthy certificate.
Bill
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Offline muzza01

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We have to connect our stove (via a flexible hose) to the pipe work permanently fitted to our Aussie Swag and I had to get a gas certificate to get the road worthy certificate.
Bill

Yeah its cuz you have a permanent line.  I double checked with Scott at ABC Campers in Edmonton; if you don't have permanent plumbing you don't need a cert.  How often do you have to get the gas cert? Is it a one off or once per year.  Muz

Offline MDSimpson

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While this may not be exactly what you are after, it could be an option.

When we go away, most of our cooking is done on the WeberQ, outside. As such, I had a plumber install a gas bayonet on my draw bar, hooked the campers regulated gas system.
I purchased a non regulated 3m gas hose, to replace the std Weber, POL fitted hose.

Any permanent gas fittings, such as stoves, gas lines etc.. need to be installed by a licensed gas fitter/plumber. By the sounds, you dont want a tailgate mounted option, so a 2 burner stove plus a WeberQ could work for you.
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Offline krisandkev

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We just went through getting our old camper ready for sale. The stove (lido junior) was fitted to the tail gate and was permanently piped to outside to the regulator and gas bottle.
Took it to get the gas safety certificate and the fitter said that set up (Queensland) is illegal now because you could leave the gas on and there could be a small leak at the stove that could enter the camper.  He said there were two options. Fit a safety valve that cuts out if there is a leak or fit a bayonet so you would have to unplug the stove before you could close the tail gate.  That was the option I went with.  It also provided a means to connect a Baby Q or similar BBQ outside.  Our new camper also has a similar set-up for the stove. We also carry one of those cheap gas butane stoves that we can use inside when windy.  Kevin
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Offline muzza01

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We also carry one of those cheap gas butane stoves that we can use inside when windy.  Kevin

How good are those little stoves.  We have two that we set up side by side. Brilliant little things.

Offline Bird

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How good are those little stoves.  We have two that we set up side by side. Brilliant little things.
in Qld awesome, in cold places, the cans freeze up about 1/2 way through boiling a billy.
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Offline muzza01

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Yeah I have heard they freeze up in cold weather.  Thank god we don't have to worry about that any more.  the only ice I see here is in my bourbon or vodka or scotch or.........

Offline meandclan

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I would go portable.  Portably secure the cooktop so that it is portably secure and then portably secure the gas bottle with a gas hose.  Its portable because you have to 'port' the gas bottle to have it filled.

Portable is good. Nice and secure.
why are you trying to make me look a total dickhead? i was only trying to diferentiate between fixed gas cookers and non fixed. What is the correct term for a non fixed gas cooker in your expert opinion? id hate to be called a fool for not knowing it.

Offline Matto

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I've got a 2 burner SMEV stove cut into the tailgate kitchen, and I love it. The ability to pull up, swing the tailgate and click in the gas hose is priceless - you find yourself stopping for lunch by the side of the road and cooking sausages, etc. It's all self-contained, you can't leave any bits behind, it's just easy.

When we bought our trailer, it came with a gas certificate. From memory, talking with JT, it wasn't strictly necessary for QLD, but some other states it was. Anyhow, to completely avoid the hassle they had all their trailers inspected and certified anyway. That may have changed. On ours, the gas bottles connect via flexible hose to a regulator (hard-mounted to the camper), and then a quick-connect coupling. The stove has a long flexible hose on it, which clicks into the quick-connect when the tailgate is open.

Father-in-law recently replaced his 3-burner portable stove with a SMEV unit same as ours. Basically for the same reasons as us - it was an ease of use thing. He wanted just to pull up and connect the gas, and be ready to go. He had a mobile gasfitter come out to install it, and was told "why did you get me out mate? Just do it yourself - these are the bits you need". He ended up hooking it all up anyway, but it was just a long hose with a POL fitting on the end to suit the gas bottle.

I've recently gone off our little cartridge cooker. I love it completely, but I don't love the cartridges. Specifically, I don't like disposing of so many of them. They're cheap enough to buy, it's more of a philosophical choice around going camping to enjoy the beauty of mother nature then throwing 2 or 3 cartridges into landfill.

Anyway, to answer your original questions:
1) Cost - shop around. FIL bought his SMEV on line, and it was hundreds of dollars cheaper than the local caravan place. Also hundreds of dollars cheaper than some other well-known online sites. Do your homework here and reap the benefits. Still, more expensive than a portable unit.

2) Safety - I think that's already been well answered. You probably don't need to get it certified, but it might be a good idea. This only covers the plumbing for the stove, they don't look at the quality of the stove at all.

3) Workmanship - don't really know what you're getting at here. I'm going to answer by saying if you stick to a good, well known brand (Like SMEV, which a lot of us have and are happy with) then the quality should be there. If it's not, make sure you're familiar with the vendor's return policy.

4) Quality - no idea about particle control. I do know that there's a difference between jets for LPG and natural gas cookers? When we got ours there was a big brouhaha about the glass lids not lasting in an offroad camper trailer. I think that myth has been well and truly busted by those of us who have used them offroad for a while now without any damage. I don't doubt that they could break, and I always close the lids at camp so they can't get blown down, but I've not yet seem one that broke in transit. I would suspect the Particle Control story is similar.

If I were you, I'd be more worried about whether you want a 2 or 3 burner, and how close the burners are together (IE, can you fit your billy and fry pan on at the same time). Lost's stove is a big 4 burner (I think?) and huge, but lets him use the stuff he needs to use. That, to me, is a more important design choice than anything else.

Also, without knowing exactly what was going on in his head, I doubt dazzler meant any disrespect. I would suggest he was just presenting an interesting argument that you could regurgate to any inspector who may be quizzing you on why you don't have a gas cert. IE, "no officer, this is a portable unit, because...". But hey - never let me get in the way of a fight between a newbie with 8 posts, and a well-respected senior member who has a history of being as helpful as you could ask... ;)

Anyway, good luck with your decision. I don't think there's a bad choice here - just comes down to how you want to use it and how much cash you're willing to sink into the camper.

Cheers,
Matto :)
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Offline Bill

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Yeah its cuz you have a permanent line.  I double checked with Scott at ABC Campers in Edmonton; if you don't have permanent plumbing you don't need a cert.  How often do you have to get the gas cert? Is it a one off or once per year.  Muz
Only when/if the camper trailer is sold does it need a new certificate...
Bill
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