Stockton beach closure protest

[achjimmy]

Dont get me wrong I don't want rangers on every corner, however managed and policed access is a much better option that locking the gates, and corralling people into a 20 x20 camping area.

Jas

Jason some parks in the US have Rangers everywhere and they are very well managed.

[achjimmy]

Why is it that us 4wders can't use the beach , but when I went for an early morning fish I seen a dozer on top of the dunes pushing sand back into the sand mining area ?  I wish I took my phone with me that morning . F$$k I was pissed off

Bit like Kurnell, the successive Governents looked after this dunes!

[BigJules]

This is an invitation to anyone from Sydney or south who intending to head up to the Save Stockton & The Watagans rally on Saturday 2 Feb.

The rally starts at 9am in Stockton, then moves to Cessnock at 11am.

I will be at McDonald's Thornleigh from 6.30am, to leave at 7am if you would like to travel up as a group, or even car share.



Map link to the Rally point at Stockton
https://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=King+Street,+Stockton,+New+South+Wales&hl=en&sll=-33.27109,151.43662&sspn=1.127527,2.392273&oq=King+Street,+Stockton&hnear=King+St,+Stockton+New+South+Wales+2295&t=m&z=16

A reminder for anyone leaving from Sydney.

[achjimmy]

Good luck to everybody going, and thanks for supporting this cause for all us. I have to travel to Bathurst  today but would have liked to have gone along.

[cm4x4nut]

Would be there in a heartbeat if we still lived nearby.

used to love going for a beach run there a couple of times a year. Lavis lane up to pub for lunch and then back again.

Good luck guys and take care

[Rumpig]

Well said. They do have an annual cleanup on Stockton. Maybe they need more than one.

they have the same thing on Fraser Island also. i was speaking to a Ranger on the island one time whilst camped there and that subject came up in our converstation. the Ranger said whilst it's a great thing the people do with the clean up, but a week later you wouldn't know it had been done, the amount of crap that washes up from the ocean is rediculous 

[alnjan]

Not giving my 2 cents as I don't live there.  I'm sure my friend won't mind me sharing ... this from a local with some great links to check out:

"A bit of a standoff on the use of our magnificent Stockton Beach by national parks at the moment after bad storm damage last May. They closed the beach to camping which most likely got a few upset over the Christmas/New Year period.
I think 4WD Action magazine is a little misinformed on the situation. Not all of the beach is closed to driving. It is only the dunes north of Lavis Lane that are closed while the area south of Lavis is open as well as all of near 30km of beach front http://goo.gl/gg4Co  Huge amounts of sand were washed away on the beach front with little or no sand to drive on especially between mid & high tide as this photo shows http://goo.gl/QzeZd No doubt the recent wild weather has again taken more sand off the beach.
It is in these situations that you get the few that bugger it up for everyone & drive over the fragile vegetation on the foredunes.
Similar beach driving closures have been happening at the Myall Lakes National Park for years & there is no camping on that beach at all.
I must say the national parks in conjunction with the local Worimi people have been doing a pretty good job running the three reserves that make up Stockton Beach after taking over from the Port Stephens Council setup & run Recreational Vehicle Area which was established in the 80's after Bob Carr banned all 4wd's from public land. I was involved in the consultation process of the RVA with the council at the time as an ordinary beach user along with the 4wd council, ammeter fishing association & local fishing clubs."

Kit_e

Yep the article is right Kit_e.  The southern end of Stockton is still open, provided you have a registered vehicle and pay for your permit to be on the beach you are right.  Because the southern end is the RVA and no camping is allowed in the RVA there is no camping allowed on Stockton until the northern end is reopened. 

Funny how some groups go off without checking for any facts first and then make up 'facts' later

[WilSurf]

Good luck to those who are going.

[jeeps]

Just heard that over 2000 4wd's turned up and they had trouble organising such a large turnout! Apparently it was massive, the convoy stretched tens of klm's.

cheers

[MDSimpson]

About 48Km's, I believe, stretched from Stockton to Cessnock..

[pawky]

It was a huge turnout apparently. I was working but most of my mates went and loved being part of positive change
http://www.theherald.com.au/story/1274964/4wd-rally-attracts-thousands/?cs=305

[Jason B]

Thanks to Bigjules and Carl today for a great day at the rally.

[sschmez]

well done to all those involved

[gronk]

Yep the article is right Kit_e.  The southern end of Stockton is still open, provided you have a registered vehicle and pay for your permit to be on the beach you are right.  Because the southern end is the RVA and no camping is allowed in the RVA there is no camping allowed on Stockton until the northern end is reopened. 

Funny how some groups go off without checking for any facts first and then make up 'facts' later

I'm not sure as to the intent of the post....and no I didn't go to the protest today.....but the idea behind it was not so much the closure of the beach straight after the storm...but the reluctance to reopen it after the beach had ( apparently) returned back to normal....

Now everybody knows that nat parks has a history of doing these sort of things...and we as citizens....have a right to have a say in the running of the country...and really ....we are the country..... !!!

And I'll get on the high horse here........same as a union.......the officials running the union are no different to the politicions......they are there to serve the members.... NOT to make their own rules.....shame it can't be that simple...but it can if the people want it to be ??

[MrHorsepower]

I'm not sure as to the intent of the post....and no I didn't go to the protest today.....but the idea behind it was not so much the closure of the beach straight after the storm...but the reluctance to reopen it after the beach had ( apparently) returned back to normal....

Now everybody knows that nat parks has a history of doing these sort of things...and we as citizens....have a right to have a say in the running of the country...and really ....we are the country..... !!!

And I'll get on the high horse here........same as a union.......the officials running the union are no different to the politicions......they are there to serve the members.... NOT to make their own rules.....shame it can't be that simple...but it can if the people want it to be ??

Well said gronk..my sentiments exactly, not just in the context of Stockton but in general ...councils,unions, and worst of all government..Local,State and worst of all Federal. Once elected these entities become UNACCOUNTABLE to the people that elected them and for most people its just too hard to fight back...

[BigJules]

I have driven the northern end of the beach and I don't know how they could say that lots of sand had been washed away making it any different from how it was? It's a beach. Storms bring sand and take it away. The dunes are constantly moving due to wind. And, one is allowed to drive along the beach front where the sand would have been removed, but not behind the high water mark.

My two cents. There was a huge number of people and vehicles in attendance today, but there was no action plan provided by the organisers. No lobby points were made, no mention of any invitations to NPWS to address the protest, or the Worimi to answer criticism of the closure of the beach.

There is a need for action on the closure of recreational spaces and clearly there is support but without an effective lobby and pressure brought to bear that strong sentiment will count for little.

[alnjan]

I'm not sure as to the intent of the post....and no I didn't go to the protest today.....but the idea behind it was not so much the closure of the beach straight after the storm...but the reluctance to reopen it after the beach had ( apparently) returned back to normal....

Now everybody knows that nat parks has a history of doing these sort of things...and we as citizens....have a right to have a say in the running of the country...and really ....we are the country..... !!!

And I'll get on the high horse here........same as a union.......the officials running the union are no different to the politicions......they are there to serve the members.... NOT to make their own rules.....shame it can't be that simple...but it can if the people want it to be ??

I guess you could say my intent of the post was to make people think for themselves. 

At present you can not camp on Stockton Beach.  Stockton Beach is not Closed, only part of Stockton Beach is closed, the area north of Lavis Lane is closed to the dunes but you can still drive the beach. 

And Big Jules you touched on a very good point regarding an action plan and no mention of any invitations to NPWS to address the protest, or the Worimi to answer criticism of the closure of the beach. 

The following is from the 4wd NSW & ACT Association

Re: Stockton Beach over Christmas-New Year #1418 7 hours, 58 minutes ago
OK, we have had no response for over 24 hours form John Rooth, so below is now our response.

Four Wheel Drive NSW&ACT (the Association) does not support the protest rally organised by Roothy and 4X4 Action Magazine. There are several reasons for this decision which was not made lightly and involved discussion with GSRC club Delegates at their recent meeting..


We have been trying to broker a meeting between the organisers of the protest, NPWS and ourselves. We have had no response from the event organisers although NPWS are keen to participate. In addition we must be mindful of the views of the traditional landowners - the Worimi people - on whose behalf NPWS manage the area as well as private land owners/lessees.

We do not believe additional access at this time is in the best interests of the sustainable long term use of Stockton beach for all user groups. The beach and associated dune area suffered severe damage and will need time to restore itself, if it is not given this time it will be lost to all for ever. This is not the first ocassion that such damage or restrictions have happened, it will not be the last and the best way to get the beach open to all is to let it to recover - a natural process which must run its course.


The main reason we have access to Stockton Beach now is because of the work of a few dedicated members of this Association over the last fifteen years or so. Their hard work has focussed on keeping this beach open to all, not just Association members. At our last quarterly meeting the Chairman of Hunter Region (Rob Kelly) tabled documentation including maps etc. which he offered to discuss with Clubs interested in using the area at its conclusion. NOT ONE SINGLE CLUB representative took the opportunity to do so. The Association has the latest information on its web site under "Documents" - Temprary Changes to Stockton Beach and Dunes..


Please be advised that the Association will not encourage participation in any protest where the reasons for it are not for the advancement of 4WDing generally and the organisers have either not undertaken appropriate research before calling for such action and/or are utilising the prospective event for "other" purposes. You will note that the document referred to above on our website is titled "TEMPORARY CHANGES" which of itself indicates that there is no intention to abandon previous access arrangements.

Please copy and past this out to as many members as possible, thanks
Have fun
Craig Thomas

Association President

[alnjan]

On the upside out of all of this it would be great to see more people become involved in future meetings and present their view point when draft plans are put on the table for public comment, before the Plans are passed to put up more gates and lock out area we want to go to.  It is in the draft planning stage that the public out cry needs to be made and show the bureaucrats we do not want to get locked out.

[gronk]

On the upside out of all of this it would be great to see more people become involved in future meetings and present their view point when draft plans are put on the table for public comment, before the Plans are passed to put up more gates and lock out area we want to go to.  It is in the draft planning stage that the public out cry needs to be made and show the bureaucrats we do not want to get locked out.

Sorry mate...but WHO is the nsw 4wd association ??

Are they a political party ?   what role do they play in having a say or influence in the running of Stockton....or any other place ?

I have no problem if your organisation has access to meetings or whatever about the running of offroad activities...but I have a problem if any meetings take place that doesn't involve any ordinary citizens that want to be involved..

I have a problem with areas being only open to selected groups...ie; 4wd clubs....at the exclusion of the general puplic !!

And the statement  that Stockton is open due to the dedicated actions of some of your members ? really ??   

[alnjan]

http://4wdnow.com/


And no I am not on the committee, just a member of a member Club.

[JU5T1N]

The following is from the 4wd NSW & ACT Association

Re: Stockton Beach over Christmas-New Year #1418 7 hours, 58 minutes ago


The main reason we have access to Stockton Beach now is because of the work of a few dedicated members of this Association over the last fifteen years or so. Their hard work has focussed on keeping this beach open to all, not just Association members. At our last quarterly meeting the Chairman of Hunter Region (Rob Kelly) tabled documentation including maps etc. which he offered to discuss with Clubs interested in using the area at its conclusion. NOT ONE SINGLE CLUB representative took the opportunity to do so. The Association has the latest information on its web site under "Documents" - Temprary Changes to Stockton Beach and Dunes..

 
Have fun
Craig Thomas

Association President

interesting comment there but a load of BS. When Menai went down a similar road years ago. It was cleaned up on regular occasions by 4wd Clubs & the local Motor Bike Club. We spent countless hours dragging out wrecked cars, old tyres, rubbish etc. Weed control, fence & track maintenance. This went on for many years. Then one year after all the clubs had finished they locked the clubs out. Yes people still enter, mostly those that didn't helped clean the place and probably still drop their rubbish there. If your 4wd club member you risk a fine as you know the rules, yet a general public person plays the I didn't know excuse and nothing happens.
Like most of us here I'm willing to help maintain, pay to keep entering or both. I just don't want us to be locked out.
This is why 4wders, club members or not attend days like today to show our hands to keep Australia open for us & our children.

[crackacoldie]

An area around Morgan in SA was fenced and closed a few years ago.  This area was closed because a member of a 4wd club had an accident and sued the council for damages.

Since the area has been fenced, control of access has been granted to the 4WD club association of SA and access can only be gained by being a member of a club.  The same group that caused the problem to start with.

I have no issue with 4wd clubs or their members, however, I do not want to be held over a barrell by an association that says I MUST be a member to be able to use my 4wd.  I don't think that is fair to even try and from what I can see from the Stockton Letter, that is exactly what 4wd NSW is trying to do there.

I am also a member of a camping club, this does not mean I have to go out with them every time I want to go camping, but does give me an option to be a part of a group.

Australia needs to be left open for access, controls need to be put into place to stop fools from abusing the areas in which we all should be able to access, however, access should not be restricted to minority groups.

Rant over

Cracka

[Jason B]

The 4wd accociation NSW/ACT represent less than 1% of four wheel drivers. They do negotiate deals in the best interests of their members. I am in a 4wd club that is a member of the association. However I don't believe the association represents our interest well or the wider interests of the 4wding community.

Their focus is very narrow and they negotiate special deals including attempting to gain access for members different to that available to the general public.

I won't be joining up any time soon. The correspondence read out at our club has enough elitist tone in it for me to know its not for me.

At least Roothy is doing some thing and having a go.

Jas

[Brucer]

*** NEWSFLASH ***
The NSW/ACT 4WD association became irrelevant yesterday when up to 5000 4WD'ers (whom they purport to represent), turned up to a rally which the association says they don't support or encourage.

I think this makes it pretty clear that the association does NOT speak for the 4WDing public.

[avotrol]

Along with a crowd of thousands (other myswag members amoung them ) I also went to the rally yesterday.

After talking to some of the organisers and from hearing and seeing things for myself, there were a couple of problems that caused the protest to prehaps not be as effective as it could have been.

The weather made it impossible to gather at the original advertised place as the ground was too soft from the rain. This left the organisers in a bit of a pickle as more and more 4bees kept pouring in. At about 8.30 the  stopped any more 4bees from joining the first group at Stockton . This is where I was.

With no more room at Stockton, the snap decision had to be made to take everyone else to Kooragang Island. So now the groups were split in two, one at Stockton and one at the other end of the Stockton bridge on Kooragang.

With the rain pelting down and the wind blowing hard, the only place Roothy could address everyone was under the bridge on Kooragang, leaving those of us at Stockton trying to listen in to what he was saying on UHF 16. Unfortunately, with some low life trying to jam the channel, it was almost impossible to hear anything  .

At 10am the decision was made to head to the Cessnock Showgrounds in a giant protest convoy. I belief this part was successful as Roothy and the leaders reached Cessnock whilst the tail end was trying to clear the Stockton bridge. It took an hour to get over the bridge alone (normally 1 minute). Everwhere you looked there were 4bees, with most flying the orange Roothy protest flag (organisers had brought 2000 but quickly ran out). All of this was on the electronic RTA overhead signs and on the local radio stations  .

As time went by, and faced with the shear mass of numbers of 4bees pouring into Cessnock, Roothy came over the UHF and declared the rally over, thanking everyone for their efforts.

I think that if it hadn't rained like it did, and if the true numbers of protesters coming had been fully known, then the rally could have been better organised and more effective. But we have to remember that the guys from 4WD Action are bushies and journalists, not professional rally organisers. Given the lessons they would have learned from yesterday, no doubt the 4WD Action guys will do much better with future such events, especially now they know for sure the level of support they will recieve.   

Either way, with everything considered, they did the best they could and the message has got out: National Parks, average Aussies are not going to be locked out and dictated to.

  avo