Author Topic: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?  (Read 21561 times)

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Offline GeoffA

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Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2013, 07:06:08 AM »
Bring back Russell Coight  ;D

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Offline DannyG

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Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2013, 07:06:51 AM »
I generally enjoy most 4wd or travel type shows that are about Australia especially if they are 4wd touring related but I understand what people are saying in regards to being sponsored etc and no doubt they have to be sponsored.

But what gets me is the inability to really bring the viewer to the environment they are filming the show/segment in. We sat down as a family and watched a well known 4wd show recently and the host was doing the show on an area I have been to but my wife and kids haven't, but they are about to, so we thought it was a great opportunity to get an insight into what they are in for. Well the show didn't even come close to portraying the reality of what it was going to be like. The host even had kids with him so it was a perfect opportunity to spend time showing families what it takes to do this particular area, but instead too much time was spent show casing all the sponsors :(

So sponsors are a necessary evil but when it is at the cost of the content of the show then it is a shame.

Someone mentioned writing to the shows host and giving feed back on what we would have preferred to see, so maybe thats an approach to take. It would be nice to see the sponsors in the ad's during the show and not using up air time of the actual show by having the host cover them instead of covering the real content.

I have photographed and videoed myself while doing trips and it is not difficult to bring the reality of whats happening to the video so you can show family and friends at a later date. Along with some commentry on the things that people need to know if they were contemplating the trip themselves is ideal for a 4wd touring type show.

I think I might start my own 'Dannys outback adventures' youtube channel, and my signature clothing could be my undies pulled up my bum? :D

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Offline GeoffA

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Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2013, 07:09:12 AM »
.............I think I might start my own 'Dannys outback adventures' youtube channel, and my signature clothing could be my undies pulled up my bum? :D

......and a flanny shirt...... ;D ;D

Good post, BTW.......
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Offline DannyG

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Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2013, 07:12:17 AM »
......and a flanny shirt...... ;D ;D

Good post, BTW.......

yeh the flanny is a given.....I could see it now......driving an old 4.2 Patrol, towing a home built camper.....representing 'real' aussies.......flanny on, undies up the bum........ I might put it too some tv executives? lol
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Offline GeoffA

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Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2013, 07:37:37 AM »
yeh the flanny is a given.....I could see it now......driving an old 4.2 Patrol, towing a home built camper.....representing 'real' aussies.......flanny on, undies up the bum........ I might put it too some tv executives? lol

Your camper looks a long way from home built......... :cup:
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Offline xcvator

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Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
« Reply #30 on: January 20, 2013, 07:49:30 AM »

So sponsors are a necessary evil but when it is at the cost of the content of the show then it is a shame.

Someone mentioned writing to the shows host and giving feed back on what we would have preferred to see, so maybe thats an approach to take. It would be nice to see the sponsors in the ad's during the show and not using up air time of the actual show by having the host cover them instead of covering the real content.
I did just that last night in a pm to Carlysle Rodgers but I'm not expecting to get a reply back  :police:
 



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Offline Pirate_Pete

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Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
« Reply #31 on: January 20, 2013, 08:04:42 AM »

I think I might start my own 'Dannys outback adventures' youtube channel,

It's not hard to do now days with a few GoPros strapped to the kids & the car :) :)

Offline ozbogwam

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Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
« Reply #32 on: January 20, 2013, 08:17:47 AM »
I did just that last night in a pm to Carlysle Rodgers but I'm not expecting to get a reply back  :police:

Why are you expecting no response?

Offline ozbogwam

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Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
« Reply #33 on: January 20, 2013, 08:20:12 AM »
A group of guys in the US ate doing a web series at the moment

www.expeditionoverland.com

Professionally done and I'm enjoying the 6 episodes so far

Offline DannyG

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Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
« Reply #34 on: January 20, 2013, 08:36:29 AM »
A group of guys in the US ate doing a web series at the moment

www.expeditionoverland.com

Professionally done and I'm enjoying the 6 episodes so far


I couldnt find the link to the actual series?
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Offline ozbogwam

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Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
« Reply #35 on: January 20, 2013, 08:49:14 AM »
That would be because I gave the wrong link

http://www.xoverland.com/

Offline gutters

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Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
« Reply #36 on: January 20, 2013, 10:31:38 AM »
A group of guys in the US ate doing a web series at the moment

http://www.xoverland.com/videos.html

Professionally done and I'm enjoying the 6 episodes so far


Thanks for the link, I've just watched the first episode and I really enjoyed it... Wish we had an Aussie equivalent.
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Offline McGirr

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Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
« Reply #37 on: January 20, 2013, 12:12:32 PM »

Not sure if many remember this one

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RadNxWrePsw

I rang Keith Adams many years ago and had a good chat to him about the car he took. I ordered the DVD and book all signed by him.

Wow the adventure without all the mod cons. Could today's 4wd hosts and i suppose many of us do what he did back then.

A great DVD to watch. He passed away a few years ago.

Mark
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Offline Carlisle Rogers

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Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
« Reply #38 on: January 20, 2013, 03:16:21 PM »
xcvator,

This is mostly in response to your message, but I'm going to throw it out there for everyone.

The good old days are the good old days because, and this is an important distinction, they don't exist any more.
If someone showed up to the offices of any network television station with a tape looking anything like Malcolm Douglas' material, they would be at best ignored, but more than likely laughed out of the building.
I love his stuff, and have watched plenty, but that doesn't mean it would stand up in today's crowded market. If I travelled to most of the places he travelled with his trusty dog, and dared take a dog with me, we would both be kicked out without warning by some zealous ranger.
The world has changed.
Without commercial sponsors, there can be no production. Your favourite movies all have Coca-Cola, cigarettes, clothing and all of the ephemera of daily life carefully placed into the hands of the actors - this is part of how they fund the form, which you still have to pay to see. 
Pat Callinan has managed to get 4WDing onto network television for the first time in decades, albeit on a Saturday afternoon. The boys from All4Adventure, despite their down home credibility, same slot.
When 4WD Touring Australia gets a free-to-air slot, I doubt they will be placing us on Tuesday nights at 8pm as we will be soon on Foxtel again.
No, prime time has no place for us, and it is not our fault. Between Masterchef, Botox with the Stars, Australian Idol and Survivor, there is little room for a real traveller spending time in the Australian bush just having a good time and sharing it.
And if you aren't on prime time, then the soap powder companies aren't going to pay the network a fortune to sell dish detergent to the viewers. So guys like Pat, Jase and myself, not to mention Simon Christie and anyone else out there trying to do what they love for a living, must fund our existence with sponsorships.
The straight ad model may have worked in 1982. The pyramid scheme of the housing market worked then, too. But that doesn't mean they work now.
The shows that I and my colleagues make represent an alternative to the drivel of prime-time television. The problem isn't that we are commercially hungry - it is that 90% of viewers would rather watch My Kitchen Rules.
If 90% of the TV viewing public wanted to watch a 4WD travel show, then we wouldn't ever need to mention what gear we use - we wouldn't have to.
Just like in the old days.

Carlisle
 

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Offline DannyG

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Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
« Reply #39 on: January 20, 2013, 03:24:56 PM »
xcvator,

This is mostly in response to your message, but I'm going to throw it out there for everyone.

The good old days are the good old days because, and this is an important distinction, they don't exist any more.
If someone showed up to the offices of any network television station with a tape looking anything like Malcolm Douglas' material, they would be at best ignored, but more than likely laughed out of the building.
I love his stuff, and have watched plenty, but that doesn't mean it would stand up in today's crowded market. If I travelled to most of the places he travelled with his trusty dog, and dared take a dog with me, we would both be kicked out without warning by some zealous ranger.
The world has changed.
Without commercial sponsors, there can be no production. Your favourite movies all have Coca-Cola, cigarettes, clothing and all of the ephemera of daily life carefully placed into the hands of the actors - this is part of how they fund the form, which you still have to pay to see. 
Pat Callinan has managed to get 4WDing onto network television for the first time in decades, albeit on a Saturday afternoon. The boys from All4Adventure, despite their down home credibility, same slot.
When 4WD Touring Australia gets a free-to-air slot, I doubt they will be placing us on Tuesday nights at 8pm as we will be soon on Foxtel again.
No, prime time has no place for us, and it is not our fault. Between Masterchef, Botox with the Stars, Australian Idol and Survivor, there is little room for a real traveller spending time in the Australian bush just having a good time and sharing it.
And if you aren't on prime time, then the soap powder companies aren't going to pay the network a fortune to sell dish detergent to the viewers. So guys like Pat, Jase and myself, not to mention Simon Christie and anyone else out there trying to do what they love for a living, must fund our existence with sponsorships.
The straight ad model may have worked in 1982. The pyramid scheme of the housing market worked then, too. But that doesn't mean they work now.
The shows that I and my colleagues make represent an alternative to the drivel of prime-time television. The problem isn't that we are commercially hungry - it is that 90% of viewers would rather watch My Kitchen Rules.
If 90% of the TV viewing public wanted to watch a 4WD travel show, then we wouldn't ever need to mention what gear we use - we wouldn't have to.
Just like in the old days.

Carlisle
 



Pretty straight forward as it is reply, thanks for that.

We must be deprived down here in Tassie, all I have seen is Pats show, mind you I dont have pay TV so thats why I am probably missing out??

Ill pull my undies out of my bum now :)
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Offline GS

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Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
« Reply #40 on: January 20, 2013, 05:55:39 PM »
Not sure if many remember this one

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RadNxWrePsw

I rang Keith Adams many years ago and had a good chat to him about the car he took. I ordered the DVD and book all signed by him.

Wow the adventure without all the mod cons. Could today's 4wd hosts and i suppose many of us do what he did back then.

A great DVD to watch. He passed away a few years ago.

Mark


I remember seeing this at the Chermside Dawn as a kid in about 1975.

Thanks for the reminder, just ordered the DVD
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Offline dazzler

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Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
« Reply #41 on: January 20, 2013, 06:38:33 PM »
Thanks for the reply Carlisle.  Gotta respect someone in the business who sticks their head up!   :cup:

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Offline xcvator

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Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
« Reply #42 on: January 20, 2013, 07:39:23 PM »
Thanks for putting up your reply Carlisle,

xcvator,

This is mostly in response to your message, but I'm going to throw it out there for everyone.

The good old days are the good old days because, and this is an important distinction, they don't exist any more.
If someone showed up to the offices of any network television station with a tape looking anything like Malcolm Douglas' material, they would be at best ignored, but more than likely laughed out of the building.

Always good to get both sides of the discussion, but I think you missed the point I, and others are trying to make ,is that they used a tried and tested format that worked then and still does, of course the material would have to be updated and presented in a more professional , slicker way

. If I travelled to most of the places he travelled with his trusty dog, and dared take a dog with me, we would both be kicked out without warning by some zealous ranger.

Lots of other people travell to those places WITHOUT a dog

Without commercial sponsors, there can be no production. Your favourite movies all have Coca-Cola, cigarettes, clothing and all of the ephemera of daily life carefully placed into the hands of the actors - this is part of how they fund the form, which you still have to pay to see. 

Yes, I fully realize that you need/must have sponsorship, but how far do you think a movie would get if the leading actor took a swig of coca cola and then did a 10 minute promo/info with the ceo of cocacola/amital and then went back to the movie script.
Fine to include the products/logos in passing, like lifting the car bonnet up to fill the radiator up and showing the "redarc"products or the "glind" shower and giving them a quick mention BUT we don't want to see a 10 minute interveiw with the owner of Redarc products espousing  his products .
Sure use ARB products, have their stickers plastered all over everything, say you're using their stuff, when you're actually using it, but don't gone on and on and on and on and on and on about it.
THAT'S what the ad breaks are for.

Pat Callinan has managed to get 4WDing onto network television for the first time in decades, albeit on a Saturday afternoon. The boys from All4Adventure, despite their down home credibility, same slot.
When 4WD Touring Australia gets a free-to-air slot, I doubt they will be placing us on Tuesday nights at 8pm as we will be soon on Foxtel again.

Guess you will have to work on the squeaky wheel syndrome there

Quote
No, prime time has no place for us, and it is not our fault

Sorry have to disagree on this, look at some of the other travel shows time slots and quality shows will get the air time.  The more ads you build in the lower the quality of the content, the lower quality is then reflected in the network rejections

Quote
The shows that I and my colleagues make represent an alternative to the drivel of prime-time television. The problem isn't that we are commercially hungry - it is that 90% of viewers would rather watch My Kitchen Rules.

I'd almost bet my left nut that the majority of viewers are heartily sick of "reality " tv shows

The other point that is being made is it's not just your show Carlisle that we're talking about, there are 2 or 4 fishing shows that do the the same. There was a very good show with 2 blokes going fishing and camping a couple of years ago, 1 left the other carried on, bought in some people that could hardly string 2 words together, filled the show up with ads, destroyed the environment in many places and then wonder why they got a canning.

Please don't take this as a personal attack on you, it isn't, it's MY point of view as a viewer that is just fed up with what are allegedly programs but are in fact 25 minutes of infomertial and 5 minutes of quality content

There can only be 1 outcome in this scenario.
 
Either joe public swallows this 2nd rate stuff and it will continue to be produced
or
He can hit the "off" button ( guess what I'm doing)






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Offline Rumpig

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Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
« Reply #43 on: January 20, 2013, 08:02:19 PM »


There can only be 1 outcome in this scenario.
 
Either joe public swallows this 2nd rate stuff and it will continue to be produced
or
He can hit the "off" button ( guess what I'm doing)

and that's exactly what i did on the weekend also. as much as i wanted to watch Pat whilst he travelled through an area we ourselves travelled 2 years back, 10 minutes into the show i lost interest switched the telly off and went and surfed the net on the computer instead.
i've also stopped watching 4wd tv for the most part aswell, the fact he's always at the mud races or Loveday 4wd Park time and time again has me not being bothered to watch the show anymore.
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Offline McGirr

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Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
« Reply #44 on: January 20, 2013, 08:20:18 PM »
Regretfully the way tv stations are like all forms of media they need advertising to make money.

Over the years we have seen a lot of shows get taken off because of ratings and lack of audience. From an advertisers point of view they want to be seen by as many people as possible.

To be taken serious by a tv station you have to be recognized by the public. If I decided to do a documentary on the Cape I would have no chance of selling it to any one. No one knows me.

Also if you look at the old documentaries they explored places very few people went to. Today all these places have been explored numerous times via documentaries and us.

The Malcolm Douglas's , Les Hiddens, Jack Absalom, Keith Adams, Leyland Bros, Alby Mangels of the world showed us places we have only heard about back then but now can access easy.

Regretfully today , as Carlisle mentioned, has changed. Yes we can vote by not watching it but we have to face the facts that this is the way things are heading.

Is there really any final frontiers out there that has not been discovered.

Mark
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Offline ozbogwam

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Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
« Reply #45 on: January 20, 2013, 08:30:32 PM »
.

Is there really any final frontiers out there that has not been discovered.

Mark

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Offline Brucer

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Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
« Reply #46 on: January 20, 2013, 09:13:11 PM »
The line is repeated "things have changed" blah blah but I think what we all know, and lament that what they have changed from was far superior to what they have changed to. It's pretty sad when 4WD'ers turn off a 4WDing show because the content is so devoid of useful information. Understood the need for sponsors to fund the show, but the other side of that is that sponsors need content that an audience will actually watch. The current efforts by Pat and his ilk belong on the telemarketing channel. They are just one long ad.
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Offline ozbogwam

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Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
« Reply #47 on: January 20, 2013, 10:06:40 PM »
Yes and as I said earlier they aren't targetted at an audience that already have all the gear and go and explore these places. They are for newbies to the hobby because that is the only way to get sponsors on board which means tv channels will get on board.

Offline MDS69

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Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
« Reply #48 on: January 21, 2013, 06:33:43 AM »
Hi Swaggers


If you are going to make a show on a particular track do you think it may help to say where it starts and ends? 
Maybe how many k's it is. 
What about whether you can make it without carrying spare fuel. 
Where to stay (and not just private places and pls say how much it is to stay)
Do you need to book places?
What would be a good itinerary?
What type of vehicle do you need?  Heavy, medium or light?
Whats the minimum recovery gear you need?  Is it a snatch strap and rated recovery points due to the high number of vehicles.  Is it a full kit?
Where the hell can you get bloody potable water on the trip?
Does anyone really care what 5yo billy has been told to say about a product.

I suppose I was spared a crap stupid cooking lesson on this episode so maybe there is an upside.


There has been some good replies here and also Carlisles behind the scenes experience sheds a lot of light on what TV networks want but no one has answered dazzlers original question. I understand and accept Carlisles reply but surely Pat and Co could work some of these into their episodes especially for less experienced travellers who don't use myswag etc. I was excited to see the recent episode on the Oodnadatta Track having completed it only 3-4 months prior but it did not reflect my experiences, I was wondering if there were two different tracks. I thought this nearly could have been two episodes.
However I envy what Pat, Carlisle (haven't seen his show as I don't have pay tv), Simon and co present each week as it beats sitting behind a computer all day.

With regards to dazzlers questions that I quoted above they were all the things I was asking when I planned our 4 week 7000km trip. Lots and lots of map reading of several different maps, books, phone calls and the good old internet. It wasn't easy let me tell you.

Offline Mrs smith

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Re: Why no decent 4wd camping/touring shows?
« Reply #49 on: January 21, 2013, 07:55:25 AM »
One of the biggest things that would change perception on these new shows
would be the use of well worn/used gear , none of us can change or buy a new fridge
every trip, most of us have cars that are not the latest and greatest and where more
interested in that nice little camping spot or historical marker or event that was there
and might not know about than a flash as a rat new everything. Whats wrong with breakdowns
and repairs, there part of the real world. All the shows of old had the same trusty well used gear (yep even a $igma) and when they updated you took notice, couldn't help but.
So they could stop showing people 35minutes of sales propaganda per hour and start
showing people what they don't need to do a trip, you know they explored this country
on horse and camel then spoked wheel cars and yet they keep telling us we need to spend the
economy of a small nation to be able to travel a little off the beaten track. Pun intended. lol