NSW Fires

[Bird]

I think people inc the media (not making it a ****in selling papers type story) need to start thinking of 800+ families with nothing... That could be 2000 people with nothing and nowhere to go..

'More than 830 homes and 62 facilities have been destroyed in NSW so far this fire season.'

[Bigfish]

Terrible fires and they bring back memories of Black Saturday.

For the discussion around bunkers and building codes. We're 10 years on from Black Saturday and whilst a lot has been learnt, what has been identified is that it is very hard/almost impossible to build a fire bunker/refuge and even rebuilding a burnt out property in some areas is not an option due to lack of anybody willing to sign it off. There have been some lucky escapes using makeshift bunkers, would you trust your life to one or just gtfo.

Regarding 'fire-proofing' your house, a friend of mine who owned a property at Benloch built a house to withstand a Black Saturday scale fire. It was very interesting to understand the engineering that went into that place with multiple redundant systems. In the end it cost him almost five times the cost of building a normal house and was pretty ugly. After it was all done he said he'd still leave if a big fire came through.

I dare say once a fire has gone through you,ll never get insurance . Unless you have deep pockets. Even here in Cairns a lot of insurers wont touch a dwelling. And we dont get fires  (yet!)   cyclones..but nothing like we got in Gove and Darwin.

[Pottsy]

Not NSW but for the Qld Fires.  Any Public outrage here

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/bushfires-double-standards-call-on-qld-premier-annastacia-palaszczuks-leave/news-story/5e22112d2b8e7c85f42bac67fd7e7624

Queensland Premier Annastacia Palaszczuk’s decision to take leave as bushfires continue to burn throughout the state has sparked a rebuke from an opposition frontbencher who called out perceived double standards.

No outrage here, wrong side of politics for any outrage it would seem.

[Squalo]

Yes I do mate,
Christ.
Talking with rfs captains over the past few months, they are frustrated, talking with farmers, they are frustrated.
Talking with NPWS, the blokes on the ground, they are frustrated.
But what would I know?
Please enlighten us with your expert opinion.
Go on, learn me.

What exactly are they frustrated about? The only imaginable scenario I can come up with is the governments lack of action in tackling climate change, am I on track with that?

[alnjan]

What exactly are they frustrated about? The only imaginable scenario I can come up with is the governments lack of action in tackling climate change, am I on track with that?

https://www.2gb.com/podcast/scientist-david-packham-on-whats-really-causing-the-bushfires/?fbclid=IwAR3cQ-f-4R-bsgXkFwgaWbIhuFVvXUFJUnldU1wcpMoUR724AOhEShuH9Rw

[Bird]

david packham on whats really causing the bushfires

[krisandkev]

What exactly are they frustrated about? The only imaginable scenario I can come up with is the governments lack of action in tackling climate change, am I on track with that?

BUT. As people who actually know have stated,  we are so small in the world nothing we do will make any difference in climate change. So what can we do? Prepare for a changing future yes.  Kevin

[Bigfish]

BUT. As people who actually know have stated,  we are so small in the world nothing we do will make any difference in climate change. So what can we do? Prepare for a changing future yes.  Kevin

We are not so small in the world mate.  We are the biggest threat to the earth of any organism. Its because of our over population, destruction of habitat, obscene and un controlled pollution, govt greed, corporate greed, drugs and generally just being an arsehole of a species with scant regard for anyone or anything else.   I dont hold out much future for mankind in the future..however I do believe that we must TRY and do something for our kids and grandkids futures.

I feel like going on a rampage at times when I find out that peopel are doing the right thing and recycling only to have council dump everything in landfill because they not right in the head state and fed govts dont have recycle facilities for all...

[alnjan]

Science in it's simplest form, that can be repeated with the same result.   When constantly told to follow the science, this basic science is the first one left out. 

[krisandkev]

We are not so small in the world mate.  We are the biggest threat to the earth of any organism. Its because of our over population, destruction of habitat, obscene and un controlled pollution, govt greed, corporate greed, drugs and generally just being an arsehole of a species with scant regard for anyone or anything else.   I dont hold out much future for mankind in the future..however I do believe that we must TRY and do something for our kids and grandkids futures.

I feel like going on a rampage at times when I find out that peopel are doing the right thing and recycling only to have council dump everything in landfill because they not right in the head state and fed govts dont have recycle facilities for all...

OMG. The experts are all wrong. Our little country is causing all this in the world. There you go. And I thought it was countries like China, India, Asia and America. Nope it is us!  Kevin

[Jeepers Creepers]

OMG. The experts are all wrong. Our little country is causing all this in the world. There you go. And I thought it was countries like China, India, Asia and America. Nope it is us!  Kevin

Ha ha ha ha, you owe me a new keyboard...... this one has coffee spray all over it. 

No, on second thoughts, its that ScoMo's fault cause he went on holidays.

[Pottsy]

OMG. The experts are all wrong. Our little country is causing all this in the world. There you go. And I thought it was countries like China, India, Asia and America. Nope it is us!  Kevin

Spot on, 7.800,000,000 people on earth, Australia app 26,000,000, we represent less than 1/3 of  1% of the worlds population. Yes we are a developed nation but geez how much can we really achieve.

[Hairs]

Spot on, 7.800,000,000 people on earth, Australia app 26,000,000, we represent less than 1/3 of  1% of the worlds population. Yes we are a developed nation but geez how much can we really achieve.

You've missed the whole reasoning behind Climate Change.
I have sent my cheque off to the UN, money will fix it.
Maybe the UN needs a Go Fund Me Page.
Then a 10 year old in India can help.

[Bigfish]

OMG. The experts are all wrong. Our little country is causing all this in the world. There you go. And I thought it was countries like China, India, Asia and America. Nope it is us!  Kevin

Really?  Think you better get back on your meds.  I didnt say our country was causing all the Shit going on...I said mankind(include yourself if its appropriate).


Anyways....Hope everyone has a great xmas and enjoy themselves...

[Bird]

OMG. The experts are all wrong. Our little country is causing all this in the world. There you go. And I thought it was countries like China, India, Asia and America. Nope it is us!

... but what would the lemmings have to protest about then They'd have to get jobs... EEeeeekk

[Squalo]

Not a lot of critical thinking going on in this topic. Lots of backslapping though. Good to see you guys are happy, heads buried in the sand and all. Leave it for the kids to deal with.

[Jeepers Creepers]

I just thought they were arguing

[Bigfish]

I just thought they were arguing

Thats enough from you.....now I,m offended!     

[Bird]

Not a lot of critical thinking going on in this topic. Lots of backslapping though. Good to see you guys are happy, heads buried in the sand and all. Leave it for the kids to deal with.

I'd say when China catches up to our pissy output level we should then start to worry.
No point us destroying what industry we have left when nobody else in the world gives a ****... Some countries talk lots, but have no action.  And they are smart enough to realise you cant just shut down coal powered overnight.

[alnjan]

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/bushfire-crisis-climate-wailing-ignores-fuel-buildups/news-story/13858ba2f9b6b08c7e2b4532d9e3ac92?fbclid=IwAR2meSmLvB3LjNjHeipJJSF1tmKEfvbljwTIQLfyb3GMGOU85B2SrlOUDEI

[Hairs]

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/bushfire-crisis-climate-wailing-ignores-fuel-buildups/news-story/13858ba2f9b6b08c7e2b4532d9e3ac92?fbclid=IwAR2meSmLvB3LjNjHeipJJSF1tmKEfvbljwTIQLfyb3GMGOU85B2SrlOUDEI

Sorry Al,
It's paywalled,

[alnjan]

Sorry Al,
It's paywalled,

Very annoying and the media wonder why people are turning away from main stream media.   Stop trying to suck us dry with having to subscribe, their articles are still full of adds to make their money.  Tight a$$ idiots. 

"Bushfire crisis: Climate wailing ignores fuel build-ups
ROGER UNDERWOOD

A group of former “fire chiefs” is blaming the current bushfires across Australia on climate change and demanding that Scott Morrison take urgent action to fix the climate. This, it claims, will fix the bushfire threat.

Even if we could change the climate (cooler summers, saturating winter rains, light breezes, no more droughts), it would not influence the current weather patterns or stop the fierce bushfires coming up the driveway this afternoon.

Even if we knew exactly how to change the climate, anything we did in Australia would have to be replicated globally (especially in China and India) to make any difference; and even if global measures were applied tomorrow, the desired new climate might not cut in for many years.

The “climate change is causing bushfires” position has two killer flaws. It takes no account of fuels. And it prescribes no practical actions that will help with the immediate bushfire threat. Ignoring fuel is an error of astonishing magnitude. In Bushfire 101 we learned about the fire triangle. A bushfire can occur only if three things are present: oxygen (in the air), fuel (to burn) and heat (a source of ignition to get the fire started).

If any one of the three is missing, no fire.

Nothing can be done to remove the air and the oxygen it contains. Nothing can be done to stop bushfires starting. They will be lit by lightning strikes or started by humans, deliberately or accidentally.

But bushfire fuel can be removed, or at least the quantity of fuel around a house or in the bush can be reduced to a point where a fire will burn at a relatively low intensity, allowing firefighters to deal with it relatively comfortably.

If fuel is allowed to build up, as happens in long-unburnt eucalypt bushland, the eventual fire will be of high intensity. If a crown fire results, generating a downwind ember storm, the fire will be impossible to control and highly damaging, no matter how many thousands of firefighters and water bombers you throw at it.

Blaming climate change for the current spate of bushfires ignores the fact these bushfires have proven almost impossible to control once they got going. This is because they are burning heavy fuels dried out by drought. Ignoring fuel is the ultimate cop-out. It absolves the authorities of any responsibility for the incubation of this fire epidemic through the years as dangerous levels of fuel were allowed to build up in the nation’s bushlands.

But what of the solutions proposed by the “fire chiefs”? I have yet to see any, other than the usual suggestions to curtail CO2 emissions, shut down coal-fired power stations, no coalmines, switch to electric cars, use trains instead of aircraft, and so on. What will these measures actually achieve? There is no agreement. When will their impact on the climate become significant? There is no agreement on this either, other than vague statements about 2030 or 2040. As far as I can see the “fire chiefs” have offered nothing of any practical or immediate value in terms of bushfire management.

However, I am in full agreement with them on one thing: something must be done to fix the bushfire crisis in Australia.

A good start would be for governments and bureaucrats to acknowledge the three great truths about bushfires in this country. First, Australia is naturally bushfire-prone. This is because of our hot, dry summers, periodic droughts, flammable vegetation and abundant sources of ignition. Second, bushfires cannot be prevented. Third, their severity and damage can be minimised but this requires effective management.

The effective approach is well understood and field-tested. You must harden-up rural and semi-rural communities to increase their resilience in the expectation of fire. You should reduce the fuels in the bush. And you need an efficient firefighting force. It won’t work with only one of the three; you must have them all, properly integrated.

Trouble is, the nation as a whole does not understand or agree on these key points. There is confusion about priorities. Thus we see “fire chiefs” focusing on climate change, environmentalists on protecting biodiversity, the fire services on firefighting, and the aviation industry (backed by the media) pushing for more and bigger water bombers.

Meanwhile, politicians are scrambling to please everyone, and pleasing nobody. The leadership vacuum is devastating.

In my opinion, the intervention from the “fire chiefs” is political, based on the “take action on climate change” agenda rather than the “fix the bushfire crisis now” agenda.

There is nothing the matter with being a climate activist, per se, but advocating policies that distract the authorities from dealing with the immediate bushfire threat can be described only as irresponsible.

Roger Underwood is chairman of the Perth-based Bushfire Front. He has 60 years’ experience in bushfire management."

[Hairs]

Cheers mate.

[nab]

I agree, climate change will have bugger all effect on bushfires on its own.

One of the reasons Australia should do something about emissions/climate change/workplace regulation is it shows the less developed countries which direction to go in the future. Sort of like how features that were in Mercedes Benz 20 years ago are now becoming standard on cheap cars. Mercedes didnt save many lives installing ABS on its cars in the 80s, but how many lives have been saved in main stream cars due to ABS since?

Someone has to lead the way, whether we can financially sustain it is above my pay grade...

[alnjan]

One way the 'Climate Change' phenomenon has affected the Bushfires involves the 'Carbon Credits' schemes.  A company 'buys a forest' to gain 'Carbon Credits' to offset it's 'Carbon Emissions'.  They are then not allowed to remove anything from the forest as any form of removal from the forest would result in a loss of 'Carbon Credits'.   Therefore to maintain their 'Carbon Credits' there is no reduction of the fuel load, no Hazard Reduction, large fuel loads and bigger hotter fires with no fire preventative measures, no fire breaks etc.