NSW Fires

[Squalo]

Listening to some of the 'experts' blaming Climate Change stating Hazard Reduction Burns either do not work or are too dangerous to conduct and just should not be conducted, to further stating current fire fighting techniques and technologies are not working but today have not said what the alternatives are.

Not true. The alternatives have been on the table for years now - mitigation of anthropogenic climate change.

But no-one is listening, in fact we have opinions being taken as fact, rather than listening to the facts as reported using rigorous scientific principles.

I'm an SES member of 20 years standing, I've spent a lot of that time assisting RFS. What is going on is pretty clear to me.

[alnjan]

Not true. The alternatives have been on the table for years now - mitigation of anthropogenic climate change.

But no-one is listening, in fact we have opinions being taken as fact, rather than listening to the facts as reported using rigorous scientific principles.

I'm an SES member of 20 years standing, I've spent a lot of that time assisting RFS. What is going on is pretty clear to me.

Explain, exactly how mitigation of 'anthropogenic climate change' will mitigate bush fires from starting or stop bush fires when they are burning?

[Squalo]

That's unnecessary.

[briann532]

That's unnecessary.

I would hazard a guess it was aimed at the "greenish" elements in their ivory towers, not the mass population of Sydney.
Well I hope so anyway.

And yes, unnecessary.

[gronk]

The problem is that the heat of the world is getting warmer. We cannot remove Heat, Oxygen or fuel because the world has been getting hotter.

This is probably correct. The world is getting hotter.....by last count 1/2 to 1 degree.

When you consider the temps in Australia vary from 30 to 40 deg during summer, that 1 degree will make absolutely no difference to bushfires..

[glenm64]

And 3mm of average sea level rise is meaningless to us.
Unless you live on an Island 1m above sea level.
Frogs in pots.

Cheers Glen

[wada4wd]

This is probably correct. The world is getting hotter.....by last count 1/2 to 1 degree.

When you consider the temps in Australia vary from 30 to 40 deg during summer, that 1 degree will make absolutely no difference to bushfires..

Increasing the hot, causing lose of moist in the ground, increases the wind and others. Makes it more chance of fires. The heat is getting higher and fast.



https://tamino.wordpress.com/2019/11/25/climate-models/

[alnjan]

yep, you do also understand there is a difference between Climate and Weather

[edz]

https://volcano.si.edu/gvp_currenteruptions.cfm  There goes any climate data collected .. No way to ever know what is normal  or not when this and other events are happening each and everyday,  year in, year  out to differing levels ....    any attempt too is pure guess work and unicorns .. Shame on you Mother Nature.. But thats life Jim, not as we know it ! .. ..

[Pete79]

https://volcano.si.edu/gvp_currenteruptions.cfm  There goes any climate data collected .. No way to ever know what is normal  or not when this and other events are happening each and everyday,  year in, year  out to differing levels ....    any attempt too is pure guess work and unicorns .. Shame on you Mother Nature.. But thats life Jim, not as we know it ! .. ..

I’m not sure I get your point here.

Are you saying because volcanos are continuing to erupt today, just as they have done for millions of years, that all of the data collected from proven and reliable sources (eg; ice core drilling) until today is now somehow guess work?

[Pete79]

Not true. The alternatives have been on the table for years now - mitigation of anthropogenic climate change.

But no-one is listening, in fact we have opinions being taken as fact, rather than listening to the facts as reported using rigorous scientific principles.

I'm an SES member of 20 years standing, I've spent a lot of that time assisting RFS. What is going on is pretty clear to me.

We all seem to agree that natural events have always and will always continue.
What interests me is how it appears that when faced with the facts about the increased intensity and the cause of this change, some people really struggle with the reality of it all.

Bush fires have always burnt in Australia, true. We all accept that.
The fact that it’s so early in the season and so much of the country is burning which such ferociously is really concerning. It appears when things out of the ordinary like this happen some of us look to far more educated people then ourselves for answers, others seem to just want to hear opinions that they agree with getting shouted at them so loudly and with such venom it must be factual.

Myself, I just can’t wait for the drought to break and the flooding rains to return.
It will just be interesting to hear the opinions shouted at us of why the wet season is longer and worse then it was before.....

[rags]

We all seem to agree that natural events have always and will always continue.
What interests me is how it appears that when faced with the facts about the increased intensity and the cause of this change, some people really struggle with the reality of it all.

Bush fires have always burnt in Australia, true. We all accept that.
The fact that it’s so early in the season and so much of the country is burning which such ferociously is really concerning.

Nor sure I agree with the “fires burning early”  In my 30 years previously living in the Northern edge of the Blue Mts and only some 12 km ( as the bird flies) from the southern edge of the current Gosper Mt fire  and participating in rfs activities, I can recall that  we had fires in September, October, November, December and January all of which these days would be given the yellow flag of watch and act.
The last 2 significant fires we lived through both originated from a similar location to the current fire with the last occurring October 2013.

[Paddler Ed]

Sydney weekender showed the footage they shot over the winter (I suspect) in the Gondwana area, covering Dorrigo, Ebor and Point Lookout.

https://7plus.com.au/sydney-weekender?episode-id=7SWE26-042 @ 5 minutes.

What's interesting is why these 40 areas were made into the World Heritage area 25 years ago - they are all that remains (remained?) of the Gondwana continent's rainforest... and most of those areas have now had fires come through them.

[dogbox]

We all seem to agree that natural events have always and will always continue.
What interests me is how it appears that when faced with the facts about the increased intensity and the cause of this change, some people really struggle with the reality of it all.

Bush fires have always burnt in Australia, true. We all accept that.
The fact that it’s so early in the season and so much of the country is burning which such ferociously is really concerning. It appears when things out of the ordinary like this happen some of us look to far more educated people then ourselves for answers, others seem to just want to hear opinions that they agree with getting shouted at them so loudly and with such venom it must be factual.

Myself, I just can’t wait for the drought to break and the flooding rains to return.
It will just be interesting to hear the opinions shouted at us of why the wet season is longer and worse then it was before.....

someone on the tele stated that the bushfires have cause 50 million tons of co2 to be released into the atmosphere so should we be worried

[alnjan]

Sydney weekender showed the footage they shot over the winter (I suspect) in the Gondwana area, covering Dorrigo, Ebor and Point Lookout.

https://7plus.com.au/sydney-weekender?episode-id=7SWE26-042 @ 5 minutes.

What's interesting is why these 40 areas were made into the World Heritage area 25 years ago - they are all that remains (remained?) of the Gondwana continent's rainforest... and most of those areas have now had fires come through them.

Interesting when the Gondwana Rainforest come from a time much high CO2

[edz]

[quote ]
I’m not sure I get your point here.

[/quote]

Just trying to say, the mobs screaming about unprecedented man made temp / co2 and what ever else, heres the figure XYZ  to prove the rises and our points etc ..
 There is IMO no way those  figures  could be accurate and can be tagged as all man made..  The amounts of junk / heat and what ever else blown  skywards by natural events  would vary in virtualy unknown quantities and throw what ever data they collect out of wack  to the point of being near useless ...
Yes the ice cores are our best tool and they do show rises and falls dust pollen etc of what ever happened over a period of ...... Millions of years ..
When someone looks at the ice cores in the future, they might be able to say Oh look the CO2 etc blipped a little here, a thousand years ago, but not much compared to what it did in the entire time line before or after ..
 Then again they might say Oh look it rose here and never went down for xx of years, but then that was the time of those volcanoes  all blew their tops ..
Based on past figures and  data and the best minds / computer modeling etc  ... These mobs are virtualy trying to say tomorrow nights lotto numbers are going to be xxxxxxxx ... Even with the best of the best super this n thats , they wont even be close .
But thats just my uneducated probably ill informed opinion of it all .. My crystal ball is just as cloudy as theirs .   

[Raym]

Pinched from Facebook.

https://australiascience.tv/vod/dr-karl-do-you-believe-in-climate-change/?fbclid=IwAR1hLuaV8pdEKukCtxDyTIsvFo3lL_oo4s-L8fEsCYf9HPUmsdxJRzqWmSc

[glenm64]

Pinched from Facebook.

https://australiascience.tv/vod/dr-karl-do-you-believe-in-climate-change/?fbclid=IwAR1hLuaV8pdEKukCtxDyTIsvFo3lL_oo4s-L8fEsCYf9HPUmsdxJRzqWmSc

What?
Mega companies controlling and manipulating us through the media to make more profit at our expense?
Couldn't be  true could it?


Cheers Glen

[Pete79]

What?
Mega companies controlling and manipulating us through the media to make more profit at our expense?
Couldn't be  true could it?


Cheers Glen

No way...

Next you’ll be saying that Murdoch press and Sky News employ a mining director, that happens to have a geological degree (technically making them a scientist) to put forward complete falsehoods and make opinions sound like facts...

Seriously, how could anyone think that an upstanding man like Ian Plimer, who only earns around $500,000.00 as the non executive director of a few mining companies and currently only holds about 5.4 million shares in just one mining company, would ever write anything about the environment that’s not 100% factual.

There’s even a heap of word for word quotes of Ian’s in some of the posts above, so the mining director must be right....

[Kangaron]

What?
Mega companies controlling and manipulating us through the media to make more profit at our expense?
Couldn't be  true could it?


Cheers Glen

Hey Glen, Uncle Frank taught us that in 1973.
https://youtu.be/w-sREpqDiUo



"I am gross and perverted
I'm obsessed 'n deranged
I have existed for years
But very little has changed
I'm the tool of the Government
And Industry too
For I am destined to rule
And regulate you

I may be vile and pernicious
But you can't look away
I make you think I'm delicious
With the stuff that I say
I'm the best you can get
Have you guessed me yet?
I'm the slime oozin' out
From your "TV set" (INTERNET)

You will obey me while I lead you
And eat the garbage that I feed you
Until the day that we don't need you
Don't go for help . . . no one will heed you
Your mind is totally controlled
It has been stuffed into my mold
And you will do as you are told
Until the rights to you are sold

That's right, folks . . .
Don't touch that dial

[glenm64]

Hey Glen, Uncle Frank taught us that in 1973.
https://youtu.be/w-sREpqDiUo



"I am gross and perverted
I'm obsessed 'n deranged
I have existed for years
But very little has changed
I'm the tool of the Government
And Industry too
For I am destined to rule
And regulate you

I may be vile and pernicious
But you can't look away
I make you think I'm delicious
With the stuff that I say
I'm the best you can get
Have you guessed me yet?
I'm the slime oozin' out
From your "TV set" (INTERNET)

You will obey me while I lead you
And eat the garbage that I feed you
Until the day that we don't need you
Don't go for help . . . no one will heed you
Your mind is totally controlled
It has been stuffed into my mold
And you will do as you are told
Until the rights to you are sold

That's right, folks . . .
Don't touch that dial

Thats a clever clip.
He is sorely missed, it would be interesting to see him expressing himself amidst the media's poisonous atmosphere of today.

Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk

[JusyApples]

No way...

Next you’ll be saying that Murdoch press and Sky News employ a mining director, that happens to have a geological degree (technically making them a scientist) to put forward complete falsehoods and make opinions sound like facts...

Seriously, how could anyone think that an upstanding man like Ian Plimer, who only earns around $500,000.00 as the non executive director of a few mining companies and currently only holds about 5.4 million shares in just one mining company, would ever write anything about the environment that’s not 100% factual.

There’s even a heap of word for word quotes of Ian’s in some of the posts above, so the mining director must be right....

So you are having a go at mining companies.... Perhaps a little research should be conducted in who sponsors Australia’s science channel... that being The Royal Institution of Australia.. who does it list as their founding partner.. Santos.. what does Santos do? So to say mining companies have an agenda is a bit rich when they sponsor the same institute where this Dr Karl thing comes from.

Why does Dr Karl’s thoughts on climate change have more weight then Professor Plimer? Dr Karl also makes money out of his opinion. Perhaps he also earns $400k a year?

Why does a wage even come into it? Because a person earns lots of money their theories, opinions and research holds less weight then anyone else?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pete79]

Why does Dr Karl’s thoughts on climate change have more weight then Professor Plimer?

One conveys proven facts, the other is a proven lier. 

Professor Plimer;
"There is no problem with global warming. It stopped in 1998. The last two years of global cooling have erased nearly 30 years of temperature increase."
Reality;
The last decade 2010-2019 was the hottest on record.

Professor Plimer;
"Human additions of CO2 to the atmosphere must be taken into perspective.
Over the past 250 years, humans have added just one part of CO2 in 10,000 to the atmosphere. One volcanic cough can do this in a day."
Reality;


But I’m never going to convince you that Murdoch/Sky commentators are misrepresenting the facts to suit their agendas, and your never going to convince me that their opinions are actually science based facts.

[Pete79]

Looks like tomorrow is going to be another horrible day in NSW. I hope they got their back burning done today.

[alnjan]

Got to love science.   It is so.....confusing. 

Reading recent articles from the BoM regarding the combination of weather events currently affecting Australia, explaining how the weather is causing the drought along with the heatwave conditions in the north of the Country while there is cold events happening in the southern States.   

Reading on in the article was reference to the current weather event over the Antarctic being good for the Hole in the Ozone.  Apparently PSCs are the vital to the destruction of the Ozone and cause of the Hole in the Ozone.  Now trying to work out the role of CFCs causing the Hole.  Now the new cause for the Hole in the Ozone is the Greenhouse Gas affect.   

From what I have seen the science of this one is far from settled.