Author Topic: Cuts urged in speed limits  (Read 8902 times)

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Offline olddigger

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Cuts urged in speed limits
« on: January 07, 2013, 01:48:40 PM »
Report in Perth newspaper The West Australian today should attract some interesting responses:




A leading road trauma researcher says the WA Government lacks the political courage to bring in measures that could cut the State's road toll.

Max Cameron, of Monash University's accident research centre, said speed limits on thousands of kilometres of rural highways across WA needed to be cut from 110km/h to 90km/h, with an 80km/h limit for trucks.

"One of the regrettable things about speed enforcement and speed cameras in particular is that it seems to be a difficult issue for politicians to address," Professor Cameron said yesterday.

"It seems to be an area where there are often very strong negative responses from a vocal minority - it's caused many State governments to be quite weak-kneed about being serious on speed enforcement."

He said existing speed limits were too high for roads that were often poorly maintained and unsafe. "We need to come to grips with the idea that the traditional 110km/h limit on any rural road is just not acceptable," Professor Cameron said.

"When you take into account the travel time and costs of reduced speeds and the enormous road trauma benefits - it tells me a speed of 90km/h by cars on rural undivided roads is the maximum you should be doing."

He said the Government had to begin placing speed cameras in unmarked vehicles and introduce point-to-point speed cameras, which measure the average speed of a vehicle over up to 10km.

The daily publication of speed camera locations should also cease, Professor Cameron said.

"The idea is that a driver should have a fear of being caught anywhere at any time," he said.

"Regrettably, governments don't seem to have the courage to do it."

Offline Bunyip

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Re: Cuts urged in speed limits
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2013, 01:53:31 PM »
From my reading you get just as many "experts" telling you that speed has little to do with it and speed limits should be increased.

Not sure from my perspective which is the better view, getting somewhere faster or going slow and taking longer. Is it the speed or the time behind the wheel that causes incidents? Is it either or just inattentive drivers and it woulod not matter how long they had been behind the wheel.

btw which fridge should I buy, how should I setup my 12V or is KK or Aussie Swag better? ;D

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Offline Bird

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Re: Cuts urged in speed limits
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2013, 02:47:58 PM »
how about spending money on driver training as a priority...  once around the block and you get the pass mark doesn't cut it.

then how about maintaining the roads.. Oops... that's spending again.. would need 230948230498230489 more speedcameras then.
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crackacoldie

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Re: Cuts urged in speed limits
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2013, 03:29:53 PM »
The same thing came up, from the same "expert" in South Australia.  Read the section about "poorly maintained roads".  This bit implies, that it is government funded research to reduce further the cost of road maintenance.  Cut the speed limit then not maintain the roads.  Political Bullsh1t if you as me.

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Offline batto

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Re: Cuts urged in speed limits
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2013, 04:15:56 PM »
It would seem this professor Max Cameron is quite a travelled expert, being that he has also been on about the Northern Territory government needing to lower road speed limits.
On the back of the NT CLP looking at removing the 130km/h limit on some sections of the Stuart highway. I would wonder if the Professor has indeed travelled as many of these rural roads as he states need lower speed limits. I personally drive to the conditions and strongly believe that drivers need real training to get their licence and not jus be shown how to pass the test. When push comes to shove an accident at high speed is gonna hurt or even kill but on the other hand a tired driver travelling at a reduced speed and falling asleep ending in accident has just the same outcome. Just my thoughts.

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Offline Mrs smith

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Re: Cuts urged in speed limits
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2013, 04:31:23 PM »
Here's an idea. Why don't we all walk and carry our
items in a basket on our heads or ride elephants. 
Maybe that'd be slow enough to please him, it about
time they spent the revenue raised by fuel tax and rego's
on the roads and infrastructure instead of else where.
Anyone payed a Vic rego lately ? Gone from $480 to 600
for a country commodore rego.

Wankers like this are ruining this country.

Offline dazzler

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Re: Cuts urged in speed limits
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2013, 06:43:52 PM »
I bet this will be the polar opposite of the dui thread.  :cheers:
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Offline Nomad

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Re: Cuts urged in speed limits
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2013, 06:55:57 PM »
I bet this guy drives a prius and rides the tram to work...................

Offline matt150

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Re: Cuts urged in speed limits
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2013, 07:45:05 PM »
I bet this guy drives a prius and rides the tram to work...................

I reckon he drives his neighbours Corgy (quite often..) and rides his pet goat to work !!!
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Offline krisandkev

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Re: Cuts urged in speed limits
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2013, 07:54:16 PM »
You don't need to be  Einstein, lower the speed on highways to 50 k's and you will lower the road toll. But is that the answer? In Qld they are about to increase the number of speed cameras to lower the road toll. No, it is not revenue raising.  >:D  They have also lowered the speed limit on sections of the Bruce Highway where crashes have occurred.  Some are 90 k's, some 80.
I just love research centres.   :P
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Offline Nomad

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Re: Cuts urged in speed limits
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2013, 08:03:23 PM »
I reckon he drives his neighbours Corgy (quite often..) and rides his pet goat to work !!!

Lets not hold back.............. ;D ;D ;D ;D

Offline Mrs smith

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Re: Cuts urged in speed limits
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2013, 08:15:51 PM »
Something that's always puzzled me, is every year they compare the road toll
to the year before's figure and yet the countries population has increased by a large
% over the years and this would put more drivers on the road. So this would mean
actual figure has come down.

Can't see them sprook'n that.

I feel sorry for the corgi, what'd he do.

Offline PB

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Re: Cuts urged in speed limits
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2013, 08:26:20 PM »
Here in the NT our open limit on the highway was cut to 130. Guess what? Our road toll went up. However if you read into the stats, the overwhelming majority of fatalies were not in these zones but to 100 or less with vehicles doing in excess of 100. Also quite a few were troopys with 14 people on board.

The limit isnt the problem its the drivers.



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Offline matt150

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Re: Cuts urged in speed limits
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2013, 08:30:19 PM »
Lets not hold back.............. ;D ;D ;D ;D

Holding back is not something I'm know for.... I still reckon he fiddle's Corgis..

Let's fix the damn roads with our tax dollars and leave the limits alone :)
Cheers,

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nbd73

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Re: Cuts urged in speed limits
« Reply #14 on: January 07, 2013, 08:33:13 PM »
Here's an idea. Why don't we all walk and carry our
items in a basket on our heads or ride elephants. 
Maybe that'd be slow enough to please him, it about
time they spent the revenue raised by fuel tax and rego's
on the roads and infrastructure instead of else where.
Anyone payed a Vic rego lately ? Gone from $480 to 600
for a country commodore rego.

Wankers like this are ruining this country.
Does this include CTP insurance? In Qld 6 cylinder vehicles are around $800 including CTP, & a tad over a grand for those of us with V8's.  It's absolute c?*p how state govt's now rely on fines to form part of their budget. Fines are dis-incentives, in a perfect world they would not exist. It's why the govt isn't stricter on the fines> they want people to speed slightly because they know that its not really that unsafe and they actually set the limits lower than road conditions  allow,  purely for this reason. Crock of sh*t? Maybe, but I am getting cynical these days, especially when it comes to political motives.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2013, 08:55:36 PM by nbd73 »

Offline Mrs smith

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Re: Cuts urged in speed limits
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2013, 08:49:43 PM »
Does this include CTP insurance? In Qld 6 cylinder vehicles are around $800 including CTP, & a tad over a grand for those of us with V8's.  It's absolute c?*p how state govt's now rely on fines to form part of their budget. Fines are dis-incentives, in a perfect world they would not exist. It's why the govt isn't stricter on the fines> they want people to speed slightly because they know that its not really that unsafe and they actually set the limits lower than road conditions to allow purely for this reason. Crock of sh*t? Maybe, but I am getting cynical these days, especially when it comes to political motives.

Don't have that car infront of me at the moment but I'm looking at another one
thats due tomorrow and it gone up from $780 to $1050 This one commercial.
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Offline SteveandViv

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Re: Cuts urged in speed limits
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2013, 12:03:02 AM »
Wank3r. Yea, can't wait to have to drive 4 hours to get to the next town. As it is it takes 2 hours at 130K (That's the cruise control limit on our stupid Patrol at work)
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Offline Desert lover

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Re: Cuts urged in speed limits
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2013, 12:15:10 AM »
The limit isnt the problem its the drivers.



I totally agree..... when the "powers that be" finally get serious and push for driver training that actually teaches something about vehicle control and hazard assessment then we may all be a little safer on the roads.... 
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Offline Squalo

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Re: Cuts urged in speed limits
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2013, 11:27:26 PM »
Monash University accident research centre is generously funded by the Vic government, and in return they play the 'speed kills' tune at 11 (most amps only go up to 10).

Quality research (as opposed to Monash research) consistently shows that if left to their own devices, the vast majority of people will drive at a relatively sensible speed - 130km/h is about as fast as they are prepared to go. Now given that this is also roughly the speed that quality research shows is the right balance to promote alertness (rather than drowsiness and boredom), isn't it fair to say that our arbitrarily decided speed limits are simply too low? Don't agree? OK then, how about we also factor in the vast improvements in vehicle capabilities and road conditions that have occurred since Noah set the limit at 100, or 110 if you're lucky.

Nope, drop the limit, because we know people will still simply drive at their comfort level, and bingo! watch those dollars roll in from the 'safety' cameras.

Those big billboards you see around the place should have a more honest message. Something like "Speeding? You're in our 2013/14 budget estimates" would be appropriate.
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Offline Boxhead 71

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Re: Cuts urged in speed limits
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2013, 11:51:43 PM »
Obviously Mr. Max [corgi rider] Cameron hasn't seen the accident rates for Victoria, possibly one of the most over policed states in the country. Victoria consistently ranks in the top states for prangs, yet has the most traffic cops, most cameras, and zero tolerance and double demerit days of anyone. And it's not speed that causes the most crashes, it's differences in speed ie. one vehicle doing 80 in a 100 zone, and just getting in everyone else's way.
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Offline Brucer

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Re: Cuts urged in speed limits
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2013, 06:47:51 AM »
The anti speeding message has become a thought terminating cliche http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_Reform_and_the_Psychology_of_Totalism#Thought-terminating_clich.C3.A9

Some examples..
"speed was a factor in the accident". well of course it was, assuming the vehicle(s) where in motion at the time.
Road signs advising to "slow down". But I'm already driving safely and within the limit.
Campaigns such as this one proposing to reduce the road toll by reducing the speed limit. But why stop there? If a reduction of 10km/h reduces the road toll by 5% and "surely it's worth it to save lives" then the same logic says simply keep reducing it until the road toll is zero.

The problem with speed limits and the anti speeding message is that it promotes the notion that there is a magical safe speed. Any half sensible driver knows that the maximum safe speed on any stretch of road will vary according to many factors; weather, daylight, traffic, performance and condition of vehicle, skill of driver, etc. Many times this safe speed may be actually below the limit, but many times it is well above it. I would rather see better training to ensure drivers have the skills to make this assessment rather than simply demonize all those who "speed". There will always be lunatics who drive beyond their skills or the conditions. Perhaps we'd do better by educating and rehabilitating them than by using them as a revenue source.
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Offline krisandkev

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Re: Cuts urged in speed limits
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2013, 07:14:29 AM »
It is an easy message and easy to enforce.  Speed cameras are an easy way to collect fines.  The government’s argues that all of the revenue raised from fines goes back into driver education, safety programs and such.  This may be true, but does that mean the government does not have to put funds raised from other sources into these programs?  Therefore any increase in fines could mean that is less the government has to budget, therefore saving them money?
I am against speeding.  But with modern cars it is hard not to creep over the limit, even with the cruise control on.  And I have often argued against speed cameras being deployed at a location where there has never been a crash etc.  Hard to argue it is not for revenue raising.  Kevin
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Offline ozbogwam

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Cuts urged in speed limits
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2013, 08:13:57 AM »
My biggest concern is the amount of deadly items in the kill zones around many roads, trees and poles way too close to the road on apexes of corners etc. Shocking shoulders of roads and of course the ever present 25 speed zones in 5km of road.

More drivers need to understand that the speed limit is to indicate maximum speed limit as conditions allow not just blindly drive at 100 because that's what the sign says.

Offline SteveandViv

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Re: Cuts urged in speed limits
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2013, 09:20:54 AM »
My biggest concern is the amount of deadly items in the kill zones around many roads, trees and poles way too close to the road on apexes of corners etc. Shocking shoulders of roads and of course the ever present 25 speed zones in 5km of road.

More drivers need to understand that the speed limit is to indicate maximum speed limit as conditions allow not just blindly drive at 100 because that's what the sign says.

Yea, but that doesn't excuse all those idiots that think 90 in a 110 zone is acceptable either. There should be a law regards going too slow. That p1sses me off the most of any driving issue. It is not the speed limit less 10k as many must think it is. Can be just as dangerous as 30 K over. It causes people (yes me) to frustration and some (not me) take risks.
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Offline Bunyip

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Re: Cuts urged in speed limits
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2013, 09:44:29 AM »
There should be a law regards going too slow.

In NSW at least there is. There is a charge "Driving at a dangerous speed" or words to similar effect. This covers not only the ones who think they are race car drivers, but also those that are going too slow to be safe.

Then of course we have the almost never enforced keep left unless overtaking law, but don't get me started on that.

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