Interesting decision - ill prepared hiker

[Estelle]

I find this ruling rather Interesting. Are they trying to make a point, encourage hikers to be more aware? Pi$& off looking for people?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-12-30/ill-prepared-hiker-fined-over-safety-risk/4447722

Nothing in this report makes sense of the decision. It would be nice to hear a more complete version.

[dazzler]

You wold take that to court. It irks me when the cops crap on about the costs. The majority of the costs are annual and charged anyway. Like the PM's jet. Costs whether in the air or not

[02-SR5]

It is too bad these days, you cannot fine somebody for being an idiot. I would like to have some of them locked up.

I reckon if he took this to court, he would get off the fine.

[baldheadedgit]

Hmm. i recon he should be repremanded in some way...  spuds and Nahn bread. did he have a Elephant with him...should have, could have made a trunk call to a rellie and got them to pick him up..

But,, the guys that go out and do the rescue's... they put there life on the line every time,,  and when some goose goes for a walk and is ill prepared then they should be made to pay... IMHO.

BHG

PS... mods. please fix the spell check.... my true colors are showin...

[qlddsl]

^^^x2 maybe some more will think about what they are going to do

[CBRK]

Being someone who does these searches (personly i do around 4 to 6 per year) i have no issues with searching for elderly, children or people who run into genuine trouble.  I have no issues with people who place us at risk and dont take basic precations being fined.  Having said that i would still go searching but people need to be educated and fined when putting people at risk for no good reason.

To give you an idea there would have been a number of people who at last minute would have ditched work for the day, losing a day of wages at there own expense.  See we wouldnt know the details until we get briefed onsite at the time of the search.

Polair costs around $300 an hour to run, the police would have had to go into overtime, expenses of food and water add up.  There would have been at least two ambos on standby for the searches in case they run into trouble.  Note not all cliffs that can cause injury are on a map, nor are always visible.  Winching in the moutains can be risky, remember the SOT ambo who died at christmas last year.

Need to look at it from multiple angles, the cops arent always being difficult or over the top.

Chris

You wold take that to court. It irks me when the cops crap on about the costs. The majority of the costs are annual and charged anyway. Like the PM's jet. Costs whether in the air or not

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[Estelle]

$500 to cover expenses. Doubt it goes anywhere near 10% or even 1% of costs of the infrustructure etc.  A token amount? Should it be higher or lower? Do fines educate those that make what we see as dumb decisions? Would gaol help? Don't think so.

Who decided this fella couldn't handle three days on a kilo of spuds and Nahn bread. Raw spuds? Did he have water? Did he have cooking gear. Maybe a special diet .  First aid stuff?

Seems he was late due to a wonky ankle. Would more bread have helped?

Just an interesting ruling.

Welcome back young fella. Looks like your typing skills are getting better. Reminded me of an RF brake controller.

[dazzler]

Polair is a fixed cost to the police. The ambulances are a fixed cost whether hey are being used or not. The ses are not in danger unless they are operating outside of their sops. The ses would be champing at the bit to get out there and do what they trained for. Same with search and rescue. They love this stuff.

Why is this fella negligent. a kilo of potatoes would keep you going for the time he was away. He hurt his ankle. Aren't we allowed to get hurt anymore?  Even if he had a full paddy pallin super hiker kit it would not have made any difference would it. Only an epirb would have made a difference so until its law to carry they can jam there

Lets take this further. If you are negligent should you pay for the costs of govt services.  Run up the rear of a car - pay for everything. You were negligent.

Don't swallow the media/ cop beat up.

[Bird]

You wold take that to court. It irks me when the cops crap on about the costs. The majority of the costs are annual and charged anyway. Like the PM's jet. Costs whether in the air or not

its being made an example of... like people trying to cross the simpson on a pushbike with a bag of oranges, and a bottle of evian water.... Do you just keep letting people ufkc up?

I agree with the too much cotton wool these days, but there have to be limits.. the rescue people are at risk no matter what SOP they follow.. didnt some helicopter rescue bloke die few mths ago on a rescue of some arsehat?

[Woodsie]

You can rant all you like.......the guy was an idiot. full stop. Did not even take any water and wasted resources that we pay for as tax payers. Yes he should be penalised .
Any d!cks like this sh!t me because I always ensure I am prepared as would all of you.

[olddigger]

Well said Woodsie. The bloke was an idiot. Whatever happened to the concept of being responsible for your own actions? In modern-day, mickey mouse Australia, anything that happens is someone's else's fault. And I want compo for it. Makes me bloody sick.

Cheers, Tony

[alnjan]

http://bigpondnews.com/articles/National-Regional/2012/12/30/Man_fined_for_trekking_underprepared_831316.html?cid=ZBP_NEWS_L_L1_Man_fined_for_trekking_underprepared_311212

Same incident, different article.


'We believed the 29-year-old placed himself and the search teams at risk through his lack of planning and preparation, and through carrying inadequate provisions,' NSW Police Force Rescue commander Brenton Charlton said. 

Mr Charlton said the man's intended route through remote terrain would have been extremely difficult to complete safely and it had taken much longer than he had estimated.  He was dropped at Newnes, near Lithgow, by friends whom he told it would take him three days to get to Colo Heights.

'Getting the basics right with trekking is so easy - all people have to do is notify the police or other responsible person of their trip intention and carry a personal locator beacon,' he said.

'Making use of available technology, together with some common sense trip preparation, could mean the difference between life or death.'

The man has been given a $500 infringement notice for 'engage in activity that risks the safety of self/others'.


Maybe a case of the 6 Ps

Piss Poor Planning Prevents Proper Performance

or in his case,

Piss Poor Planning Prompted Police Punishment

[Symon]

Polair is a fixed cost to the police. The ambulances are a fixed cost whether hey are being used or not. The ses are not in danger unless they are operating outside of their sops. The ses would be champing at the bit to get out there and do what they trained for. Same with search and rescue. They love this stuff.

Unless times have changed Police and Ambulance officers are not on salary, so that means they are not a fixed cost, and they get paid overtime if need be.

As a former SES group leader I can tell you they ARE at risk regardless of if they are following SOP's or not.  Following SOP's reduce risk, not eliminate it.  Whilst many members 'love this stuff' there are better things they could be doing rather than being called out from work (potentially missing pay) to look for some idiot who wasn't prepared.

Why would you take on what sounds like a challenging track, alone, and without adequate provisions or emergency communications?  He should have copped more than $500.

[dazzler]

As a former SES group leader I can tell you they ARE at risk regardless of if they are following SOP's or not.  Following SOP's reduce risk, not eliminate it.  Whilst many members 'love this stuff' there are better things they could be doing rather than being called out from work (potentially missing pay) to look for some idiot who wasn't prepared.

Perhaps acceptable risk may be a better word for it. My bad.

I have worked in this area and everyone just LOVES doing what they are trained for.  Its a buzz and its crap to say otherwise.  Is there risk, probably.  But that risk is acceptable provided you stick with the training and the sops.  When its on there is no tugging at forelocks or shuddering with fear.  Its only after the fact and people want to big not just how important what they did is that this crap starts.  "oh, we are so brave, what an idiot for putting us all at risk".  Blah, blah blah.

Sorry Symon, but the self flagellation and 'could be doing other things'  is just reverse hero worship.  People do it cause they love it. That doesn't remove the valuable role that the SES perform but lets not play games about it.

And seriously, did this bloke do that much wrong?  If so expand the reasons.

[Woodsie]

And seriously, did this bloke do that much wrong?  If so expand the reasons.

Seriously?? You obviously only read the bits of the article you want to....please you are making yourself look stupid here... I'm done

[achjimmy]

This happens way to much in the blue mountains, and I say the authorities are getting Sick of it. There is often multiple helicopters used ( in this case too ) and thy are often not Polair. My mate owns two Kawasaki Helo's that besides being leased to the RFS during Summer can also go on these type of rescues when required. They costs $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ per hour and it ain't the bush walker who pays.

Even the volunteer rescue choppers have a budget and operating hours, outside of these costs somebody must pay and the extra hours adds up. Remember every 100 operating hours a Aircraft has a service, this is followed by a major etc etc, components have life's. The costs on these aircraft add up considerably as hours mount. All this is budgeted for to operate for X number of hours per annum.

[Marschy]

Doesn't NSW have an emergency services levee. SA does. This allows you to be irresponsible at your own expense (and at the expense of others who pay the levee).

This is no win situation for the SES (who's membership is in decline according to sources my son knows in the CFS).

The reason for the decline is no doubt due to the number of  calls that are handled by the SES that should never be referred to them in the first place.

But the rationale is, hey I'm paying a levee, I'll call the SES to remove that tree that I own that fell on my fence that is only my problem. Or I'll call the SES to remove the tree branch that fell on my car during the wind storm last night and even though the tree is owned by the council I'm going to make it the SESs problem

[CBRK]

Doesn't NSW have an emergency services levee. SA does. This allows you to be irresponsible at your own expense (and at the expense of others who pay the levee).

Yes there is partly from rates and partly on peoples insurance.  But this goes to staff costs, facilities, equipment and vehicles

I agree that it would also be an acceptable risk level that we expose our members to.

On the costs, police would have had a dozen officers, some would have been cancelled rest or overtime, so a higher cost, some would have been taken off gd duties for the time, so less cops to respond to other incidents.  Yes polair is a fixed cost, yes they average the likely usage into the budget, wouldnt it be nice to use it less than budgeted for.  Note they had two of them there.  Also the volunteers are happy to go searching, i am, but we like it to be for those in genuine need.  In this case i am wondering what footwear he had, did this contribute to the injury?  Why go through the area prepared as he was.....

Also note he had no water on him......

Chris

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[TheOtherLeft]

Was this guy in any mortal danger???

Yes he got a boo boo in his ankle and had an interesting diet but he was only late.

If you were in his situation and had an EPIRB handy would you have deployed it?

[KevL]

This sends a very wrong message -If you get into difficulties, don't call the authorities for help or you will be fined.
Will people think twice about calling for help now?
Tell the relo's that if I'm not back by a certain time to come look for me but don't tell anyone?
What about if you stake a few tyres while 4WDing and need rescue? Should you be fined ? If only you'd taken a few more spare tyres and a tilt tray would wouldn't have been so unprepared.

This country continues to descend into a police state.

[Symon]

This country continues to descend into a police state.

Which would you prefer - a state where people are accountable for their actions, or one where we pay more taxes, rates and levies to pay for stupidity?

[KevL]

How did this persons food choice make any difference to the event?
He hurt his ankle.
A policeman has decided that he is the arbiter of bush walking preparedness and issued a fine.
I believe it's a very dangerous precedent.
Some people are incapable of surviving without a fully stocked pantry. Some can survive on bush tucker and their skills alone.

We must remember also that we only have media reports to go on. There is a lot of info we will never get.

[alnjan]

This sends a very wrong message -If you get into difficulties, don't call the authorities for help or you will be fined.
Will people think twice about calling for help now?
Tell the relo's that if I'm not back by a certain time to come look for me but don't tell anyone?
What about if you stake a few tyres while 4WDing and need rescue? Should you be fined ? If only you'd taken a few more spare tyres and a tilt tray would wouldn't have been so unprepared.

This country continues to descend into a police state.

I think you are reading too much into it.

If you are adequately prepared, trip pre planned, suitable spares, tools food and water etc, and if something goes wrong beyond your control, you should be right. 

Relate the hiker to a 4wd situation, would you just rock up one weekend and have someone tell you you can do the Canning Stock Route in a fortnight see you at the other end in a fortnight and head off blindly with no preparation or adequate supplies, including no comms or EPIRB or similar. 

[Brucer]

Polair is a fixed cost to the police. The ambulances are a fixed cost whether hey are being used or not. The ses are not in danger unless they are operating outside of their sops. The ses would be champing at the bit to get out there and do what they trained for. Same with search and rescue. They love this stuff.

Why is this fella negligent. a kilo of potatoes would keep you going for the time he was away. He hurt his ankle. Aren't we allowed to get hurt anymore?  Even if he had a full paddy pallin super hiker kit it would not have made any difference would it. Only an epirb would have made a difference so until its law to carry they can jam there

Lets take this further. If you are negligent should you pay for the costs of govt services.  Run up the rear of a car - pay for everything. You were negligent.

Don't swallow the media/ cop beat up.

x 2

[Estelle]

I get the impression this fella didn't get along with those who found him and was a 'bit testy'.

Still can't find out whether he had water or anything else but bread and spuds. Water, compass, hat, gps, map... The list goes on.

Interesting to see how this one pans out

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-01-03/family-missing-near-lithgow-found/4451806

Fine forthcoming?

To me, a situation worse than the fella who hurt his foot.