To discipline or not [read smack]

[Hairs]

Well said Al,
To add, the High School can tell my 14 year old that she doesn't have to live under my roof any more and have DOCS organize to have her move out without even consulting us.
I was speaking to my sister the other day who has been having trouble with her 14yr old, hanging with a group of kids that don't go to school. She comes home the other day to tell her mother she doesn't have to live with her anymore When asked who told her that she said the School councilor told her that. So she rings the school to ask what is going on and she is told that is confidential & a personal matter between the councilor and the student.
So my sister rings a friend of hers that works for Centrelink, she rings me in tears, my sister is a great mum with a wayward teen and she is beside herself that there is very little she can do to prevent this from happening.

Ok, yes these laws are in place to prevent the abuse of child and there are parents that beat their kids, but why has it got to this point that we as parents have had the right to raise our kids in a way that we see fit taken away from us and then when the kids become a burden on society from lack of discipline we are labeled as bad parents? 

All we can do as parents is hug our kids each day, tell them we love them and hang on for a bumpy ride.
Oh, And support each other, this includes other Mums & Dads cause it's not an easy gig at times.

[GeoffA]

............She comes home the other day to tell her mother she doesn't have to live with her anymore When asked who told her that she said the School councilor told her that. So she rings the school to ask what is going on and she is told that is confidential & a personal matter between the councilor and the student.............

......belt the councilor........

[Hairs]

......belt the councilor........

If only it was that easy. 

[sonny]

The trouble is that the ones who make the laws and usually hand out the advice to the kids, have never had kids themselves - text book experts. 

[Black-Pig]

Had the bil and sil and 2 kids stay for a few days over xmas, they are always welcome and we had a great time over a few beers a few bbq's a round of golf etc etc.
The problem is the 2 kids the boy is 4 the girl is 6, parents are early 30's.

The kids have never been smacked for doing something wrong, never even been spoken to in a raised voice and know no boundaries.
 
Example 1, they were given a small puppy for xmas and the boy has dragged it by the legs up onto his lap, the pup is protesting and tries to escape and is now hanging over the edge of the chair being held by the back legs yelping in pain. The father is watching doing nothing, finally the mother asks the boy to stop please, the boy does not stop, she politely asks again with please and the boy stands up tipping the pup on the ground on its head. The mother then grabs his hand and says ******* thats not nice and he starts to do that pathetic whiney baby cry [no tears] so she picks him up and cuddles him and says sorry.

Example 2, The little pup is just adorable and is a very active little thing, after a little nap on the couch it springs off the couch and is running around the lounge room as they do. The boy grabs the pup and puts it back on the couch, but before he is back seated again the pup has jumped off. So the boy once again grabs the pup and returns it to the couch this time holding onto its front leg while he gets on the couch. Just as he is seated the pup breaks free and makes a jump for it and the boy almost grabs his hind legs but misses, but it was enough to unbalance the pup and it crashes on the floor head first and topples over very awkwardly with its neck bent back under its body. The father is right there and does nothing, this time the mother grabs the boy by the arm and pulls him close [ i am thinking about bloody time this kid copped one] but nope he starts that same pathetic cry and she picks him up and says its ok ******* thats enough ******* then holds the boy upside down and says I will shake your silly's out.

In the spirit of Xmas I held my tongue, but was like WTF guys, this boy needs to know where the boundaries are, you aren't doing him any favors like this. As soon as he goes to kindy next year the other boys are gunna flog the bejeebas out of him, no one likes a spoilt little bully boy who can't take what he dishes out.

Thinking back to my childhood days I know I would have received a corrective action if I had done those things. Probably a smack for #1 and the strap for #2 because I didn't learn from #1. Neither of my parents would have thought I was silly and needed the silly's shaken out of me.

Is this normal new age parenting? If so then no wonder some kids are the way they are.
 

My house my rules... The kid would have been told in no uncertain terms. Now I dont have kids but I seem to have the right voice and look as most kid only need to be told once by me and they dont do what ever they are doing again. My friends have accepted that if they wont keep their kids in line in my house I will. Most of the time I will give them the 3 chance rule unless it is bad. In this case they would have got both barrels. And yes I was smacked as a child, but not many times.

[alnjan]

Well said Al,
To add, the High School can tell my 14 year old that she doesn't have to live under my roof any more and have DOCS organize to have her move out without even consulting us.
I was speaking to my sister the other day who has been having trouble with her 14yr old, hanging with a group of kids that don't go to school. She comes home the other day to tell her mother she doesn't have to live with her anymore When asked who told her that she said the School councilor told her that. So she rings the school to ask what is going on and she is told that is confidential & a personal matter between the councilor and the student.
So my sister rings a friend of hers that works for Centrelink, she rings me in tears, my sister is a great mum with a wayward teen and she is beside herself that there is very little she can do to prevent this from happening.

Ok, yes these laws are in place to prevent the abuse of child and there are parents that beat their kids, but why has it got to this point that we as parents have had the right to raise our kids in a way that we see fit taken away from us and then when the kids become a burden on society from lack of discipline we are labeled as bad parents? 

All we can do as parents is hug our kids each day, tell them we love them and hang on for a bumpy ride.
Oh, And support each other, this includes other Mums & Dads cause it's not an easy gig at times.

Sadly this is the norm.  Little Johnny or Julia can go to the counsellor tell all the stories under the sun and next thing they are gone with no or very little  inquiries made as to what is happening at home to validate their story.  Accommodation is provided, and allowance/pension is provided along with all the other benefits and what does the child learn from all of that.  Put your hand out and someone will give you want you want.  All you have to do is look sad and hard done by and you will get what you want.  No need to work, no need to do anything for yourself.........

[Hairs]

The trouble is that the ones who make the laws and usually hand out the advice to the kids, have never had kids themselves - text book experts.

I tend to agree Sonny.
I don't know what the solution is to help parents deal with this, I really don't.
We try and involve our three kids in everything we do, as a family and camping is a great way to do this. Yeah, sure they all have their different interests and are of different ages, but we try to get them all to participate in the experience of getting outside.

No need to work, no need to do anything for yourself.........

Yep, seems to be a common theme of governments over the past ten years or so.

[Foo]

Most of this crud started with teachers many years ago when, they started telling the kids.....these are your rights and you don't need to do, listen or live within a particular enviroment. The trouble with this is.....you can't have rights without responsibility or am I missing something here? 

Foo

[MarkVS]

Interesting thread.....
I don't see it as a discussion as to whther to smack or not......I see smacking as another type of consequence that can be applied when our daughter has done something wrong...thing is, I think there are far more powerful 'consequences' that can be applied that have a much more powerful effect, than smacking...hence we don't smack.
eg..if she has a horse riding camp coming up, and she does something very wrong, we will cancel her attendance at the camp. Or going to a friends place for a play..etc
That way we also can adjust the 'consequnce' to match was was done..rather than one type of consequence applied across many scenarios...

Seems to work very well.

MarkVS
 

[prodigyrf]

Seems to work very well.

MarkVS
 

It can MarkVS but all I can report is horses for courses with my 2 growing up and chalk and cheese with the lad and the daughter.

Son came home with that crap about not having to go to school anymore when he turned 16 and the schoolteacher missus was beside herself and wanted me to tell him how he had to finish school. I told her that's not true and if we forced him he could just make trouble and get himself expelled so if he wants to get out in the big wide world like I did then he has to work for a living or there's the gate and I'll help you pack son. Choice was come to work for me for his keep or with a couple of chippy mates and naturally he chose the latter. Lasted 2 days before he wanted to go back to school with his tail between his legs. Up at 6 to be pressed and dressed for an 8 hour day is a bit of a culture shock for softcock schoolboys you'll easily discover like he did.

So when he'd finished Yr12 he got an electrical apprenticeship because I'd told him he can have 2 yrs free board and keep if he did vs paying a third of his wage if he joined a mate green keeping at the local golf course which earned better money right away but no long term. Awww... but I wouldn't be better off than on an apprentice wage then moans he. Fancy that eh? Well when the 2 yrs was up and I reminded him it was time to talk about that board contribution, would you believe it, the ungrateful sod ups and moves out with a bunch of mates!! Then I have to put up with a bunch of middle class wimps pissing in my ear all the time about how their grown up offspring are out partying and having a good time and don't seem to want to leave their free leafy burb nest. Well blow me down with a feather.

[deepop]

lmao.. it sure is, going to make another coffee..
but on another note,,, the kid would have got my boot up his A***.!

BHG

If he was yours?
If he was someone else's?

I've only started this thread and am also going to get another coffee!

[rockman]

If he was yours?
If he was someone else's?

I've only started this thread and am also going to get another coffee!

He wouldn't do it if he was mine
He would get the biggest kick up the arse! if he was yours and you where at my house
He would get a ' gentle bump ' to the back of the head if he was yours at your house and if it was challenged , i wouldn't be there much longer

Can't tolerate cruelty to animals and I am liking my dogs more then I like most people these days .

My 2 cents worth anyway

[deepop]

Now that I'm at the end of the thread ............
My kids get the odd smack.   They learn what the consequences of their actions are and don't really need it anymore - a warning that it could happen is enough.   I like to think I would never smack someone else's kid (and never have yet) - but the parents would definitely know the kid needed it!   

The worst thing I have found is the parents that do not carry through their threats - if you're gonna warn them "this will happen if you don't stop" then FFS make sure it happens if they don't stop!

End of the line is that you can put up with it for only so long - then they don't come around or see you anymore.   Harsh way to lose friends but you only get one life - live it as happily as you can.

[briann532]

If only it was that easy. 

At least it's a start......

[briann532]

Hey Al n Jan,

Write a book. I'll buy it.
I reckon your comments are spot on.

Cheers and happy new year,
Brian

[fishfinder]

I saw this bloke closed fist swung at the back of his daughters head I shook my head in disbelief, hey asked if I had a problem with him hitting his daughter I said yes but I would not stoop to his level dropping him on his arse in front of his kid, he then hit his kid harder to see if I would react. I disappeared did my shopping thing and spotted the same bloke walking to the car park a few meters in front of his wife and crying kid. I got the attention of the mother and pointed to walk in a different direction with her daughter and that was the day I discovered another purpose of the roo bar on my Prado, perfect for driving some ones nose and teeth into.

I have no problems with a child getting smacked opened hand across the back of the leg or bum, but when a child or women gets "flogged" in front of me I make sure the week mongrel that does the flogging gets his back.

[HEM19X]

We have no kids so can not comment, only to say there are some kids that only respond to a smack.

However, IMHO, if the dog survives long enough, it will probably deal out it's own form of retribution...pity that it will then most likely be put down for it's actions!!

[briann532]

In a conversation with a psychologist.....dangerous in its own right, but anyway.

She said that "abuse is abuse. Assault is assault. There's no grey area. You either hit them or you didn't."

What absolute excrement.
Thats like saying lighting a campfire makes you an arsonist. Lighting a fire is lighting a fire.
Killing a dog makes you a murder. Jeez vets must be bad people.

I had a nurse stab me the other day. (got a needle)
My doctor raped me. (Prostate check due to high psa count)
When does it become too much?

I kissed my daughter this morning and hugged my son. 
What does that make me?

There is a dinstinct difference between discipline and abuse.
Only a fool would say otherwise.
The only difference is that some people understand the difference and some don't.
Punish the bad, dont penalise the honest.

The world has officially gone mad, but I obviously missed the email..................

[Teabag]

Agree, there is a fine line between a discipline smack and abuse. Hence when mine do get a smack it's only one but one they will remember. To continually belt and belt a child is abuse. Funny thing is, children will/can push and push all your buttons to the absolute limit at times and it's during these times we make a majority of parenting mistakes(guilty as charged). No matter what anyone says, parenting is a hard gig that is getting more and more difficult with more government interference........

[wholehog]

nothing wrong with a smack across the bum if a raised voice or "look"dosent work....
I used to smack my kids( and always felt like a dick when i had to)
I seen a woman in the supermarket once smacking her kid(maybe 5 years old)across the head..... I just gave her a " glare" and she stopped..
But i dont think there is any need to hit other than the bot bot with just a hand.....

[alnjan]

Hey Al n Jan,

Write a book. I'll buy it.
I reckon your comments are spot on.

Cheers and happy new year,
Brian

thanks mate, but no thanks.


I just happen to have the pleasure where work brings me into a lot of contact with people where society and the system has failed big time.

Unfortunately we have drifted away from a lot of the good values of society.  In this case the old proverb of "It takes a whole village to raise a child"  has been totally and utterly forgotten.  Someone from outside the Village knows what is best for that villages child.

Gone are the days where if a child was found doing something wrong, you could give the child a boot up the backside (colloquially speaking) Mr Plod would give you a kick up the back side and finally when you made it home Dad would give you a kick up the backside.  Nowadays, if you touched someone else child that father would be hunting you down for assaulting his precious cherub and Mr Plod finds out about it after the fact. 

[prodigyrf]

And an extra Happy New Year to all those newbie parents this morning when the tackers have naturally woken up a half hour earlier and bouncier than usual and are raring to go and what about it mum and dad? Yeah well for an extra hour or two last night the drinks were slipping down real well and mum and dad were partying just like their single days while the tackers were fast asleep and where'd all that nostalgia suddenly evaporate to now?

For the non parents out there it's like this. Disciplining kids is not a one way street and the first fascinating new toy you brought home from the maternity ward is about to begin training you for life and building resilience too and that's where your mum and dad get to have a wry smile at how you handle it all Mr and Mrs Eggspert. I'm particularly looking forward to that phase with my two. In the meantime son was having a BBQ with his lady and the gang at his place last night while uni daughter decided the dough serving a New Year function at the local surf club was too good to pass up, while mum and dad and the empty nesters had a leisurely late night with local beachside fireworks and quiet sleep in this morning. There comes a stage in life where you're superbly ready and resilient for all that and hold that thought newbie and wannabe parents.

To come back to the original puppy problem, there was only one thing missing and that was an adult presence. Parents have to be grown-ups not kindy, primary school or HS buddies and pals to their kids and to recall what it was like when they were a generation younger when it was all about me, now and 'It's not fair!' because all the other kids are allowed to stay up late, getting mobile phones, Xboxes, live at home for free when they're working, or whatever. Love that 'Black Conservative' blogger when he recalled as a kid moaning to his old man about 'It's not fair' and his dad would shoot back with- 'Who told you life was meant to be fair nigger!'

When I was a child I thought like a child but it was up to my adult parents to be the adult rocks to constantly lead me to where they were at in my own individual way.











 

[ondaboat]

I have a boy 6 & girl 7. I smack them on the ass, I think in total about 3 times last year. I work away 5 weeks on 5 weeks off so my wife tends to deal with their upbringing more then me. I'm 38 wife 37.

The one thing I belive kids need is consistency, values, discipline and a respect for all living things.

We have been approached on more than one occasion to be told by unknowns to us of how polite our children are. As I tell them people like children who are polite and well mannered. Having said that kids still need to be kids and have fun.

For me I go the look, then if that doesn't work I wheel the bin in and start throwing toys away(ps into box that can be earnt back)
If that doesn't work(rarely) then there is trouble.

One thing I always do is support my wife as she is the main reason why my children are so well behaved and I love her immensly for that.

Regards Adam

Oh by the way I would have picked the 4 yr old up by the leg and asked "how does that feel?" thats all your honour!

[Kit_e_kat9]

Sadly this little boy could be destined for a life as a serial killer. All serial killers abused animals when they were young.  It's only going to get worse for the dog I feel certain.  If he's not being instructed on how to handle the creature correctly, then they are up for some expensive vet bills before it "suddenly goes missing".  I'd also keep an eye on the neighbours critters.  If you see a lot of Missing Dog or Cat signs ...

Kit_e

P.S.  I don't have kids so my opinion is *foot*  *kids arse*  *connected*

[edited by Admin]

Thank You Admin.  I guess some didn't see my tongue in cheek on this one.

[fishfinder]

Yesterday I had my daughter taken away from me from an employee of DOCP ...