To discipline or not [read smack]

[griz066]

Had the bil and sil and 2 kids stay for a few days over xmas, they are always welcome and we had a great time over a few beers a few bbq's a round of golf etc etc.
The problem is the 2 kids the boy is 4 the girl is 6, parents are early 30's.

The kids have never been smacked for doing something wrong, never even been spoken to in a raised voice and know no boundaries.
 
Example 1, they were given a small puppy for xmas and the boy has dragged it by the legs up onto his lap, the pup is protesting and tries to escape and is now hanging over the edge of the chair being held by the back legs yelping in pain. The father is watching doing nothing, finally the mother asks the boy to stop please, the boy does not stop, she politely asks again with please and the boy stands up tipping the pup on the ground on its head. The mother then grabs his hand and says ******* thats not nice and he starts to do that pathetic whiney baby cry [no tears] so she picks him up and cuddles him and says sorry.

Example 2, The little pup is just adorable and is a very active little thing, after a little nap on the couch it springs off the couch and is running around the lounge room as they do. The boy grabs the pup and puts it back on the couch, but before he is back seated again the pup has jumped off. So the boy once again grabs the pup and returns it to the couch this time holding onto its front leg while he gets on the couch. Just as he is seated the pup breaks free and makes a jump for it and the boy almost grabs his hind legs but misses, but it was enough to unbalance the pup and it crashes on the floor head first and topples over very awkwardly with its neck bent back under its body. The father is right there and does nothing, this time the mother grabs the boy by the arm and pulls him close [ i am thinking about bloody time this kid copped one] but nope he starts that same pathetic cry and she picks him up and says its ok ******* thats enough ******* then holds the boy upside down and says I will shake your silly's out.

In the spirit of Xmas I held my tongue, but was like WTF guys, this boy needs to know where the boundaries are, you aren't doing him any favors like this. As soon as he goes to kindy next year the other boys are gunna flog the bejeebas out of him, no one likes a spoilt little bully boy who can't take what he dishes out.

Thinking back to my childhood days I know I would have received a corrective action if I had done those things. Probably a smack for #1 and the strap for #2 because I didn't learn from #1. Neither of my parents would have thought I was silly and needed the silly's shaken out of me.

Is this normal new age parenting? If so then no wonder some kids are the way they are.
 

[D4D]

Thinking back to my childhood days I know I would have received a corrective action if I had done those things. Probably a smack for #1 and the strap for #2 because I didn't learn from #1. Neither of my parents would have thought I was silly and needed the silly's shaken out of me.

x2

This is going to get interesting.

[Brucer]

I'm an "older" parent. We don't generally smack but I'm not in principle against it. with or without smack, our kids definitely know when they're in trouble. It's a cop out to fail to to prepare your kids to live in the real word which does not revolve around them. The "kindness" of over indulgent parenting is actually hurting them in the long run.

[Nomad]

Sticks a finger in each ear and goes lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala.

I don't smack my kids, anymore

1. I smacked my daughter a few times when she was 3 or 4. I felt like a prick, and it didn't do anygood. All I have to do is give her the look or raise my voice and the jobs done.

2. When my son was about the same age after a smack he would try and hit back, so that didn't work. Again the look or raise my voice is enough.

I have seen people smack the crap out of their kids and it doesn't seem to get a good result for either kid or parent.

I am not judgmental, do what you think is right, but smacking just doesn't work for me.

Sounds like the dad in the OP doesn't take to being a parent to well.

Cheers Nomad.

[dazzler]

Discipline and smacking are two completely different things.

You can manage your childrens behaviour without needing to smack routinely you just have to be constantly correcting inappropriate behaviour.  On the odd occasion that we do smack we actually hold the childs hand in our and smack across it hitting our hand but not theirs.  The effect is the same.

Kids are like border collies.  They are smarter than us, can achieve just about anything with a little direction.  You get no where by ignoring or belting them.  You just need to engage with them constantly and lightly but consistently modify inappropriate behaviour.     

Sounds like your relo's  are simply lazy.

[baldheadedgit]

x2

This is going to get interesting.

lmao.. it sure is, going to make another coffee..
but on another note,,, the kid would have got my boot up his A***.!

BHG

[jetcrew]

We have the house rules on the wall ..and the punishments ..my kids both know and understand the rules.

In extreme events a smack is handed down as the punishment, however I explain to the kids that as a signatory to the house rules ,I am now forced to issue the smack , and it,s due to your behaviour..not because I like or want to smack you..

As soon as we put the rules and punishments on the wall it also helped me as sometimes if I was in a good mood I would let things slide and the next day the same event would result in a smack.

I quickly realised that this inconsistency was the worst thing I could be doing and I never trained dogs this way , so up went the house rules .

A smack is just another form of discipline ,but far to often it becomes the only ...

Since house rules went up 2 years ago only a few serious offences resulting in a smack and my 6 yo has learnt to self regulate his behaviour as he knows the consequences.

I,m happy to discipline with smacks ,but the child must understand that it is a consequence of their choice ...this way maybe just maybe my kids will grow up understanding the consequences of their choices in life.

This is touchy thread and I only wanted to say what I do ..not saying it,s right and am respectful of other parents choices ...unless pissed parent is flogging a kid for no real reason , then it gets very messy in the campground when the kid runs into your camper and says help me please.

Jet

[DaveCQ]

Do we now smack? No.
Have we smacked? Yes, when the kids were smaller. Now we don't need to because the kids know there are consequences for doing the wrong thing. Now that they are older we discipline them through missing events/sport etc (rare).
Boy 11, Girl 8 and we can take them anywhere knowing that they re going to be good kids. They were given discipline straight up and it has paid dividends.
I had a good mate who had kids the same age as ours. Told me he didn't hit his kids. I told him I could tell I said, "don't think you're doing you're kids any favours by not smacking their ass for being outright little sh---s". A couple of years later I saw him again and he reminded me of my statement and said he had taken it on board. The kids were now a pleasure to be around and had tremendous respect for the parents.

Some people discipline in different ways. The key I believe is the children knowing that there will be a consequence one way or another for intentional poor behaviour.

P.S. There is a clear difference between a smack and a belting. I don't tolerate beltings and believe that any parent who flogs their children should be flogged themselves.

In regards to the original post, the kid with the puppy should have got a smack across the ass. My opinion only.

[Foo]

Give the little S#$%s a whack when needed. There are times you can talk till you're blue in the face and it means jack turd to them.

Don't give me this crap about a naughty corner or taking their toys, xbox, playstaion and whatever abcdbox off them. They know that all they have to do is wait, yeah that's right and they will get it back.

I have even thrown mine in the cold shower when they have tried a temper tantrum on me and smashed into a gazillion pieces a toy, after they broke something of ours'

Also chased my 14yr old son (I was 52) out of the house and caught him in the yard after he was giving me attitude. Dragged him back inside and made it amply clear to him, that if, he wants to carry on like some fool adult, then I would have no problem sitting him on his arse.

There comes a point when all the talk in the world will mean nothing and they know they can make your life hell, so I show them what evil looks like and that worked.

Foo

[Barry G]

Jetcrew, without wishing to take the thread off topic, It would be interesting to see your house rules and punishments.

[Black Diamond]

Pretty simple in my house, if your naughty and don't listen they cop it, and if anyone ever tries to stop me they will cop it too, they are my kids not anyone else's. And if anyone ever meets my girls (and many on here have) they are 3 of the most well mannered and disciplined little girls

[rockman]

Pretty simple in my house, if your naughty and don't listen they cop it, and if anyone ever tries to stop me they will cop it too, they are my kids not anyone else's

Nothing wrong with your rules BD .
Both my kids have been smacked before .... now they dont do anything that warrants being smacked .
When they are out and about , I have had other people comment on how good our kids are .
Getting smacked never hurt us and I am sure it wont hurt them .

I will love to see in about 10-15 years time , all these beautiful little turds that haven't been smacked , see what generation of kids we have got regarding respect / discipline , when these kids start to breed .

[Swannie]

Pretty simple in my house, if your naughty and don't listen they cop it, and if anyone ever tries to stop me they will cop it too, they are my kids not anyone else's. And if anyone ever meets my girls (and many on here have) they are 3 of the most well mannered and disciplined little girls

Same rule applies as BD. And my 2 boys are generally well behaved and the baby girl is perfect 

As for BD girls they are great except when they  sing one direction. !

Swannie

[griz066]

I,m happy to discipline with smacks ,but the child must understand that it is a consequence of their choice ...this way maybe just maybe my kids will grow up understanding the consequences of their choices in life.
Jet

Boy 11, Girl 8 and we can take them anywhere knowing that they re going to be good kids. They were given discipline straight up and it has paid dividends.

You just need to engage with them constantly and lightly but consistently modify inappropriate behaviour.     

That's what I am talking about, this boy knows no boundaries, you dont need to flog them but they need to know where the line is.
I know if I got smacked I didn't do whatever I did again as I knew what wold happen. As others have said we smacked out kids when they did wrong and they then knew where the line was [and rarely crossed it] now they are grown and are wonderfully well rounded productive members of society with good values and morals. I dread to think how my nephew will turn out if they keep up this style of parenting.

Sticks a finger in each ear and goes lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala.
I don't smack my kids, anymore
1. I smacked my daughter a few times when she was 3 or 4. I felt like a prick, and it didn't do any good. Why didn't it work?
2. When my son was about the same age after a smack he would try and hit back, so that didn't work. So your son thinks it is ok to hit back? How did you deal with that?
Cheers Nomad.

[D4D]

I will love to see in about 10-15 years time , all these beautiful little turds that haven't been smacked , see what generation of kids we have got regarding respect / discipline , when these kids start to breed .

It is already here, have you been to a shopping centre lately and witnessed the current crop of 12-16 year olds...

[RobM]

Both our children now aged 30 and 24 have told us that they are glad we smacked them when they were little. Mum used to say to them "I love you too much to let you be naughty".
I'm with Nomad, can't say I remember smacking my daughter, just had to look at her.
Now, do fathers favour daughters and mothers favour sons ? Maybe that's big enough for a thread of it's own. 

[sonny]

We too smacked sometimes.  We have three sons and they are all different personalities, and different discipling techniques worked at different times, however sometimes a smack was given.  One day, I was in the Doctors surgery with my youngest son (probably about 3 or 4 at the time) and he was touching the Doctors light over the examination bed.  I asked him not to do that and gently guided him away.  He went back and did it again, and I again guided him away but said pretty sternly - don't touch that again.  He went straight back and touched it again - I smacked him.   Then thought "Oh sxxt - this will be interesting" as the Doctor was sitting there watching.  The Doctor looked at me and said (and even after all these years I can remember his words) - "I wish more parents would do that"!!!!!

[Swannie]

Both our children now aged 30 and 24 have told us that they are glad we smacked them when they were little. Mum used to say to them "I love you too much to let you be naughty".
I'm with Nomad, can't say I remember smacking my daughter, just had to look at her.
Now, do fathers favour daughters and mothers favour sons ? Maybe that's big enough for a thread of it's own. 

Definitely never bought into daddy's little girl until I had one 

[dazzler]

We too smacked sometimes.  We have three sons and they are all different personalities, and different discipling techniques worked at different times,

Funny how they are all different. 

[prodigyrf]

Horses for courses as I found over the years with my 20 something son and daughter nowadays. Just threaten to paddle her young backside fo being naughty and it was off in a huff indignantly to her bedroom and the frosty treatment for dad at the very thought of it. With the eldest son he had a touch of the Devil in him and always liked to push the bounds and test you out.

First smack in his high chair after playing with his food and I scold him. Then he looks at me with cheesy grin and proceeds to drop spoonfuls of mush on the floor so I say don't do that, taking the spoon away, put it up on the sink and sit down to our meal agin. Wah wah holding out arm for his spoon to no effect so he stops that and then slowly but surely picks up the bowl and holds it out over the side of the high chair looking at me with that cheesy grin again. Me looking him straight in the eye with a stern- No don't do that! upon which he tips it over ever so deliberately and then dumps it on the floor with that- Whatcha gunna do about that big feller look. First smack on the back of the hand that's what and so it began. What do you do when he can walk and wants to play games pulling away from you to run on the road because it gets a reaction from the big dudes? Let him get run over? A firm smack on the legs is kinder in the long run in my book until you find yourself smacking in anger or frustration occasionally and the guilt trip so we decide we'll do the talk only thing until he claps his hands over his ears and walks away from you.

That's when hit upon the word 'disobey' and third utterance from me means an automatic smack if you ignore the first two times I call you out with it and relative peace and harmony ensue after that. ie We'll be with a bunch of families and kids are running amok and I turn to my two and say don't do that or you'll 'disobey' me and they know what that means particularly after the second magic word reminder. While you wince at some parents with that puppy nonsense other parents note how well behaved yours always are (well in public anyway).

The disobey line in the sand moves accordingly with their age and experience but there's always that young bull/old bull tension with dads and sons. Cocky boss of the wash in Grade 7 and I've told him I want his room tidy before school or else and I hear the door go and it's not done as he's off out the drive on his BMX and I'm out like a shot calling him back and all I get is the finger and up yours! I think of the old man's strap and school cane in my wild days and no way you're dismissing that upbringing sonny boy so I was waiting at the school gate with my belt in hand knowing full well Mr Cool would be some time hanging out with his other mates until the last tick. He never saw me coming with a quick flick around the back of the legs plus- And if that room isn't spotless when I get home tonite you know what to expect! It didn't have to be hard just enough to sting the pride in front of his mates and a couple of teachers, including the sports mistress who could barely control their smirks as I strode off.

Self employed with apprentice in tow, captain of the footy team with men 10 years his senior and other dads tell me what a fine young man I have on my hands but they can thank his grandfather and my grandfather for that and he'll teach his sons the same or else!

[Hairs]

different disciplining techniques worked at different times,

Couldn't agree more.
This is also the case with different children, all three of ours needed to be dealt with differently. And has they grow older this changes as well, what worked last year doesn't seem to have the same effect as it use to, so we need to change our thinking and actions. Kids need boundaries.

On another note, I can see adults now that need a good smack, just to pull them into line at times.  Of cause, this is just my Opinion 
Maybe this is the result of poor disciplining when they were kids. Just saying.
 

 

[Tassie devils]

Do we agree with smacking yes.
Do we smack no.
Are we strict parents try to be.
Are our girls well behaved not bad.

[Tim - Stratford]

On another note, I can see adults now that need a good smack, just to pull them into line at times.  Of cause, this is just my Opinion 
Maybe this is the result of poor disciplining when they were kids. Just saying.
 

x2.....see it at work all the time.....

[alnjan]

We have the house rules on the wall ..and the punishments ..my kids both know and understand the rules.

In extreme events a smack is handed down as the punishment, however I explain to the kids that as a signatory to the house rules ,I am now forced to issue the smack , and it,s due to your behaviour..not because I like or want to smack you..

As soon as we put the rules and punishments on the wall it also helped me as sometimes if I was in a good mood I would let things slide and the next day the same event would result in a smack.

I quickly realised that this inconsistency was the worst thing I could be doing and I never trained dogs this way , so up went the house rules .

A smack is just another form of discipline ,but far to often it becomes the only ...

Since house rules went up 2 years ago only a few serious offences resulting in a smack and my 6 yo has learnt to self regulate his behaviour as he knows the consequences.

I,m happy to discipline with smacks ,but the child must understand that it is a consequence of their choice ...this way maybe just maybe my kids will grow up understanding the consequences of their choices in life.

This is touchy thread and I only wanted to say what I do ..not saying it,s right and am respectful of other parents choices ...unless pissed parent is flogging a kid for no real reason , then it gets very messy in the campground when the kid runs into your camper and says help me please.

Jet

Totally agree.  The rules are there for all parties and need to be consistency in the enforcement of the rules.  But as the kids grow the rules need to be flexible to allow for boundary movements. 

Yes we smacked our kids and we sat down with our kids and explained why it happened.  Only needed to be done a couple of times and then the voice and look was enough for them to think about their behaviour. 

As for other peoples kids that come to our place.  I have a saying for them, and their parents, "My House, My Rules"  My sil used to stay with us with her spoilt brats of kids.  They have never been told NO and never been smacked.  She like other sheep followed the Super Nanny and introduced the Naughty Mat.  On the rare occasion she sent one of the brats to sit on the Naughty Mat, the cherub has picked the mat up holding it to her bottom proceeded to walk around the house.  The sil thought it was so cute she couldn't do anything about it.  Anyhow they used to stay with us on trips through to visit the parents in law.  I used to bite my tongue to keep the peace with my bride but once they asked something and for safety reasons I said NO.  Well wasn't I the ogre.  I said a word they had never heard before.  Anyhow they still break the journey but rather then stay with us they now pay for accommodation and visit us or ask us to come to see them.

Another thing to note with whole behavioural issue with kids.  The Child Protection Policy came in in the late 90's, and since then a lot of parents have this mistaken belief they can not lawfully chastise their children and use it as an excuse for not being a parent to productively raise their children, preferring to let their children just run loose on Society and then blame society for their children's behaviour.  We are already seeing a second generation of kids coming through that know nothing of our Society's values or principles.

[Bird]

Give the little S#$%s a whack when needed. There are times you can talk till you're blue in the face and it means jack turd to them.

Don't give me this crap about a naughty corner or taking their toys, xbox, playstaion and whatever abcdbox off them. They know that all they have to do is wait, yeah that's right and they will get it back