Work place Redundency ???

[edz]

MY work it seems is soon going to start offering  Redundency pay outs to us long term permanent's .. The company is wanting to rid itself of permanent staff and re-employ through an employment company ..Though nothing official has yet been said, We have it on good authority it is coming ..
Question I have is what sort of deal / package have others been offered as a redundency, what sort of deals did you bargain for  ..
Just wanting  to get an all round idea of what might be a standard package  ??
Ive got almost 20 years on the job up, We are in the Hostpitality industry and yes we do have a union, though members at our facility are now very much in a minority compared to years gone by.. Any one been through it like to share their thoughts .   

[Yimmy]

Hi edz,

You need to find out the basis I of your employment contract, do you work under an enterprise agreement for your site or the general award for hospitality.

Either your enterprise agreement or the award will nominate the redundancy provisions, normally they range anywhere from 2 to 4 weeks per year of service, some are capped at a limit.

You didn't mention whether you were a member of the union or not. Anyway best option to ensure you get your full entitlements is to have the union involved at a high level.

I am laughing at myself at the moment as I sit at a senior level of management and the bane of my life can be the union.

But if you don't know your options then they can give you the clarity

I can't believe I am saying this 

[edz]

Thanks Yimmy appreciate the reply, yes to union member and general award ,Was really wondering about the amount of weeks etc per year of service thing .
As to the union being able get much of a deal, well that will remain to be seen.

[Yimmy]

Hey edz,

Get ready to read ... Your award will detail the basis of the redundancy provisions.

The union should be able to provide you with a copy of the award or failing that google is not bad

At the minimum you should be looking at 2 weeks per year of service in my experience

Jim

[Jason B]

My work place has been going through the same thing. As a general rule the type of deals offered are pretty standard here.

Usually 13 weeks pay as the incentive + 3 weeks pay for each year of service up to a maximum of 13 years. This works out at 52 weeks pay if you have been in longer than 13 years. This is in addition to whatever long service or rec leave entitlements you have.

A VR is a fantastic opportunity depending on your age and employability. As long as you can get a job on similar $$$ quickly you would be in front, however if employment opportunities are limited where you are then maybe it is frawt with danger.


Regards

Jas

[Swannie]

As others have said your award/Enterprise bargaining agreement will set out your entitlements.
One thing a lot of people don't ask for and should is the support to get new employment, whether it is you existing HR department helping you with a resume and interviewing techniques or an external employment agency/consultancy business, after 20 years in a company it helps to get a refresher.
Put the onus on your employer to support the transition both financially and emotionally.

Good Luck
Swannie

[D4D]

There are also tax advantages as the first $50K is tax free then there is a lower tax amount on the rest of the payout.

[Mallory Black]

Some good advice here for you Edz
My 2 cents worth- My wife and I have been retrenched twice each. Not pleasant but that's how it goes. Each time we've managed to stay positive and sometimes have had to forge a new career path to keep the bills paid.

If a redundancy is either taken or shoved on you, read the documention thoroughly to the best of your ability. It's a legal document

It is also wrapped in a minefield of legislation and conditions so you might need some advice.

Some Lawyers are good with that, but I have personally found that industrial relations specialists/consultants are more on top of that business.

They should be able to tell you if the deal is:

A crook deal, or:

Standard package, or:

A good deal that is sweeter than what the employer is obligated to offer, and:

If the offer or deal is correct or incorrect.

If you are at a disadvantage you can take action against the employer to correct the mistake or compensate you for getting it wrong.

If they have made an error in your favour, then (from memory) you and they have 90 days from the termination date to do something about it, after that it's all yours/theirs. (yes it has happened to us like that but that was in the '90's so I'm not sure about current rules but it was a nice windfall LOL!)

[Wortho]

More on the tax on redundancy payouts......

''For the current 2011-12 year, you can have as a tax-free redundancy payment $8435 for the base amount and, in addition to that, there can be an amount of $4218 for every completed year of service. If you've done 8½ years, you get eight times $4218 plus the $8435 tax-free. So if someone has been there for a long time it can mean their entire payout might be tax-free.''

Under a redundancy payout, the annual leave and long-service leave (long-service leave is accrued after five years on a pro rata basis) will have the benefit of being taxed at 31.5 per cent, rather than the normal marginal tax rates of up to 45 per cent.

The remainder of the redundancy is called the eligible termination payment and is taxed at the normal threshold, with some concessions calculated on the age of the person, linked to the superannuation preservation age, Bembrick says.


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/money/planning/we-have-to-let-you-go--20110906-1junu.html#ixzz1Xga8IN7a

[Doug.b]

Here is a link to fair work ombudsman http://www.fairwork.gov.au/termination/redundancy/pages/default.aspx which has some good information about the national employment standards.

Just remember there are 4 things that they could include into the redundancy package;
1. Long Service leave (if you have any owing to you)
2. Redundancy (length of service)
3. Annual Leave ( if you have any owing to you)
4. Notice of termination (http://www.fairwork.gov.au/factsheets/FWO-Fact-sheet-Notice-of-termination-and-redundancy-pay.pdf)
 

[edz]

Thanks all, Appreciate the replies,  been doing a lot of reading the government net sites too, as suggested..
If the terms of  redundency are agreeable enough, Im thinking it might not be a bad thing...

[areyonga]

I have just received one from the Comm Govt and what they give are 2 weeks for each year you have been employed up to a max of 20 years, then 5 weeks pay for over the age of 45 and 4 weeks pay in lieu of notice of termination.  On top of that will be any payout for annual leave, flex leave credits and any long service leave.  Good luck

Trevor

[Patt31]

my hubby did 26 years service and got 8 weeks pay plus 8 weeks of long service leave that was owing to him. Unfortunately for him he was employed by a company and at the time that was the maximum payout due to him because of the award the company used, as he had done more than 12 years service he was due LSL which reduced the amount that the company had to pay him. (The size of the company also impacts on the amount that they have to pay you to, under so many employees etc)

You look at some people who get alot of money for redundancy payments, but unfortunately for us this was the maximum amount payable. I phoned work choices or whatever it was called at the time and was told he was getting the right amount. Still think that 8 weeks for 26 years service was so wrong.  Was only 2007 too.

All I can say is do your research, get it all in writing, and good luck.

[JRF1973]

Hi Edz

I'm a financial planner and have dealt with a few of the Qld Government staff being put off at the moment.  They were offered $6,500 or 12 weeks pay (which ever was the highest) plus 2 weeks pay for every year of service.

The first $8,806 is tax free, plus $4,404 for each year of service.  The rest is taxed at your normal tax rate (34.5% if you earn between $37,000 & $80,000).  38.5% if you earn between $80,000 & $180,000.

If you want some advice, send me a message.  No charge for a myswagger.

Regards

Justin

[jetcrew]

Don't forget your super ..you can claim hardship and get some $$$ of the superfund straight up in most cases, but each fund has rules and regs etc, so contact them and ask about your options, a good mate is getting 15K per year as a pension from now at 40 odd instead of waiting till retirment age Because he took a VR.. his workmate did not check and now the 3 mth period has expired he can't get at it so has to wait 25yrs.

Best of luck mate

Jet

[Moopla]

You would not beleive the redundency entitlements @ my workplace!!!  We get 4weeks per year of service (uncapped). Some employees have been around for 40yrs. Plus they pay out our sick pay.....Our EBA is currently up for negotiation and the company wants to take it all off us. I am not surprised! The company wants to cap the payout to 40 weeks, which is still awesome, and no longer payout sick leave. It's very hard to listen to the bullShit yarn from the union when it sounds like every average joe aussie isn't entilted to half what we are!

[fishfinder]

I think I will be posting on here after todays meeting with the GM ... he has only once payed a visit with out warning ( his assistant slipped up about asking me where is a motel close to our work ) and that was to hand out dcm's or redundency.

[Slipus]

I took a Voluntary Redundancy after 31 years.  All the tax advise seems spot on. 
Being 50 plus helps.  It took me 6 months to find another job but i wasn't looking to hard. I don't regret it one bit, I am debt free. My new job has payed for a new driveway (to make it easier to get camper in the yard), solar power for the house, a new bedroom suite, hot water system and i have been able to help the kids out and give them some money.

   

[speewa158]

I took a Voluntary Redundancy after 31 years.  All the tax advise seems spot on. 
Being 50 plus helps.  It took me 6 months to find another job but i wasn't looking to hard. I don't regret it one bit, I am debt free. My new job has payed for a new driveway (to make it easier to get camper in the yard), solar power for the house, a new bedroom suite, hot water system and i have been able to help the kids out and give them some money.

 

You poor Bastard ,,,so why did it take so long to do it        

[Barry G]

You would not beleive the redundency entitlements @ my workplace!!!  We get 4weeks per year of service (uncapped). Some employees have been around for 40yrs. Plus they pay out our sick pay.....Our EBA is currently up for negotiation and the company wants to take it all off us. I am not surprised! The company wants to cap the payout to 40 weeks, which is still awesome, and no longer payout sick leave. It's very hard to listen to the bull**** yarn from the union when it sounds like every average joe aussie isn't entilted to half what we are!

Moopla, not sure what you are calling bull**** ... the workers in your workplace over time bargained for these conditions. No doubt, at the time they were achieved, they were a choice as against higher wages, for example.
Of course management would like to take them away, but why would the work force agree to give them up unless they were to be compensated by wage rises in advance of what others are getting.
When workers bargain poorly they don't get to make up ground next time round, but employers are forever trying to claw back previous gains in wages and conditions.

[Barry G]

Edz,
A redundancy needs to be 'genuine' - i.e. not just the employer wanting to get rid of permanent employees and replace them with casuals.
As such, it would have to be genuinely 'voluntary'.  Having said that, if it works for you hen all well and good.
However, in the past 20 years I have seen a number of people come to realise that the $$$ aren't as good as they seem, especially if replacement secure work is hard to come by.
Bottom line is, if you are a good long term permanent employee and their is ongoing work you have a legal right to keep your permanent employment and conditions.  After all, that is what permanent means.

[Nomad]

When workers bargain poorly they don't get to make up ground next time round, but employers are forever trying to claw back previous gains in wages and conditions.

As a medium sized business owner, you might consider that in the current climate that alot of businesses are actually trying to protect themselves from becoming non existent.....................................

Small and medium businesses are the largest employers in this country and in all honesty dealing with the red tape and requirements placed on them have become ridiculously expensive and time consuming, obviously this creates more strain on what may be an otherwise very stressful position.

Not all business owners are money grabbing pricks looking to underpay their labour. I met a guy today, who because of Suncorp not paying out 2.5million for flood damage is going to lose his commercial enterprises, have to sack 60 employees and lose his house. Yet all he cares about is his workers. What a ****ing legend. Yet he, after all his investment is going down alone..........don't see the unions stepping in to help him out, and keep their members gainfully employed.

There is a level playing field somewhere for both business owners and employees but no one seems to know were it is. I wish I could pay myself 40 weeks pay, leave loading entitlements, sick pay and superannuation..............I would make myself reduntent tomorrow.

[D4D]

I did some research on this yesterday. The one thing that hasn't been mentioned is any long service or annual leave is taxed at your normal rate. Only the redundancy payment benefits from a lower tax rate.

[Barry G]

Nomad,
My comment was directed specifically at Moopla's anti-union remark.  Good small - medium employers are probably the best of the best, but they aren't necessarily the majority experience of ausie workers in 2012. 
Only yesterday I was asked where would a hairdresser go to deal with the problem that he is employed 'full time' - including opening and closing the shop - but is paid as a 'casual' i.e. no sick pay, holidays, long service leave etc, and can be instantly dismissed.  When he asked about becoming permanent he was told "we don't do that here".  Of course this is illegal, but what can he do???
Last week I was told of an instance in my own industry - local government - of a pregnant staff member who had used up all of her sick leave with a difficult pregnancy being told she would have to go on un-paid leave if she couldn't return to work up until her due date.  And that by the type of arrogant scum that too often constitute H.R. 'experts' these days.
As a workplace delegate of my union I have seen far too much of this over the past 25 years to believe it is not increasingly becoming the norm.
I agree with you that insurance companies can be b@st@rds, but I'm not sure what you think unions could 'step in' to do about that... and if they did the anti-union push would no doubt use it as another opportunity to scream about unions bullying 'private enterprise'.
Anyway, to return to the theme of the thread, we can all at least be thankfull that redundancy provisions exist.  I'm damn sure that they wouldn't but for the work of previous generations of unionists.

[Bird]

I was in a union once.. The TWU - what a farce they are.
I'd never join a union ever again