Author Topic: Aussie Yengo Campers  (Read 8899 times)

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Offline steve223

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Aussie Yengo Campers
« on: September 01, 2012, 05:42:36 AM »
Hey,

Just a word of caution ( will post detailed trip report after my return) we are one week in a 3 week outback trip and so far had major problems with out trailer and Claus from Great Aussie Campers showed very little knowledge of what he is doing:

- thebspace In wheel arches is less then the suspension can travel hence after a stint on a rough road up to Mutawitnji (which everyone else in a GIC CT took without problems) I discovered bent wheel arches and a quite buckled left hand site and tire marks on inside of arches. So we headed to broken hill for a quick check up and was told to little travel between big wheels and arches but also that my extended draw bar was to weak and would likely snap at some point.

So we headed on to Waanaring over another day of just corrugated roads and discovers at a tank stop there that the whole axel came loose and the centre bolt of the suspension snapped ( caused by the loose bolts) so after some bush mechanics we limped back to bourke to a engineering place.

They discovered that suspension centre bolt was assembled the wrong way and the cause being the to loose lock nuts on u bolts he also mentioned as well that the draw bar would need re enforment as it was allready under a lot of tension and may snap, not something I like to happen in the outback or road with wife and two kids on board.

When I called Claus from great aussie campers and detailed the situation he became quite rude and said the engineer does not know what he is talking about and the fitting of suspension was correct and I hit something ( which I did not) so I called Alco and it turns out Great Aussie Campers fitted the centre bolt for axel mounted below the leaves not on top like on my one, they also mentioned that the U bolts NEED to be re tightend after 500k something Great Aussie Campers did not know about or at least have nowhere in their non existing documentation or ever mentioned to me and that that would be the cause of the snapped centre bolt.

Furthermore I found out that the susposed Toyota hubs are actually slim line ford hubs which also need a full service after 500ks.

I think you do not go offroad so may have less problems but keep he suspension set up and u bolts in mind.

If you axel sits below the leaves the centre bolt should be on top and nut on bottom not the other way around as it was on my trailer.

And don't forget to re tighten the u bolts

« Last Edit: September 04, 2012, 06:59:51 PM by GGPatrol »
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Offline Darren253

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Re: Aussie Yengo Walk-In
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2012, 02:01:34 PM »
Tough break mate... It must be heart breaking on you first trip.  ???
Chin up, and as bad as it is to have all of these problems with a new trailer, hopefully a few fixes and mods can solve your problems and you can focus on enjoying you trailer.
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Offline Fun Police

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Re: Aussie Yengo Walk-In
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2012, 03:12:06 PM »
Interesting stuff.

Not sure what you mean about the centre bolts. Have you got a picture of what is right (or wrong)? I'll definitely check the ubolts after our first few trips.

The drawbar thing sounds unusual. It is made with duragal which is pretty strong  stuff or did you get an extra long one? Most of the trailers I've seen have this, or lesser, arrangements. I find this hard to quantify. The tensile strength of two lengths of 100x50x3 duragal is enormous.

The bottoming out of the wheels is a concern worth emailing them about. Any idea by how much??

I find it a little strange that any set of hubs would need servicing at 500k's .
I've never heard of this before. That's only a trip down the coast and back.

Edit: just had a look at my hubs they are definitely the six stud ones, not the five stud Ford ones.

Wonder what the best way to work out whether the suspension over travels or not?? can this be measured?  I'm definitely going to ask Claus the question.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2012, 03:36:35 PM by Fun Police »
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Offline jamesjfa

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Re: Aussie Yengo Walk-In
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2012, 03:18:10 PM »
A great looking setup you have there. Well worth the wait I'm sure. Enjoy....

Offline steve223

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Re: Aussie Yengo Walk-In
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2012, 08:35:59 AM »
I have the extended 2 m draw bar, I'm no engineer but both engineering places I saw mentioned that in the first minute.

Claus is not much help if something does not go smooth, again very rude on the phone, saying engineer had no clue and was a idiot hence my call to ALCO which confirmed engineers statement.

this is how the centre bolt was assembled by GAC
http://db.tt/n6y8DshP
with bolt on the bottom and this is how it's supposed to be assembled if the axel is above springs
http://db.tt/mZIRcxso

Claus seemed to have no clue what the centre bolt on the suspension was and that the assembly differs depending on where the axel is located nor did he know that the u-bolts
need to be tightened after 500k's which is a bit of a concern if you actually building the trailers.

with the bearings I'm confused I also have six stud hubs but according to  the guy here this are slim line ford bearing (he showed me Toyota Land Cruiser bearings and they are much bigger and don't fit on 45mm axel)

in regards to wheel travel can't give you exact measurements but definitely enough to allow sufficient contact with arches to buckle wheel arches and welds.
http://db.tt/8ASLdL2y

I bought a full off road trailer and from looking at many other trailers in the past week they either have a stopper, small tires, more room in the wheel arches or are no "FULL OFF ROAD" trailers.

My friend traveling with us is towing a GIC extrem ranger used the same lines and never bottomed out or hit is arches.

I now got two shocks fitted fitted and they make a hell of a difference, trailer does not bounce and sit's much more settled on the road and behaves much better off road

http://db.tt/fQbSeBeJ
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Offline Fun Police

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Re: Aussie Yengo Walk-In
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2012, 11:55:08 AM »
Ok. Lots to look at there! I'll check mine out and ask the questions too. Find out what is going on.

I've got the standard drawbar on mine, but i would still back the 100 x 50 duragal as being correct for use. Look how many manufacturers use it.

Those shock look like a good idea.

Will they prevent the wheel arch problem??
« Last Edit: September 08, 2012, 12:15:57 PM by Fun Police »
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Offline steve223

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Re: Aussie Yengo Walk-In
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2012, 06:54:12 PM »
I think te drawbar strength is ok for a 150 length drawbar however I have 2 m and it does not seem sufficient that's at least what every engineer or trailer place so far said.

I would say the guys here in outback NSW and QLD have more experience what is required for a full off road trailer.

Suspension makes Hughe difference on the road the  tomorrow we hit expedition national park and I'm expecting some rough tracks there again so we will see.

However fact is unless something brakes the wheels should not touch the arches and there was do damage to the trailer except the one caused by the wheel hitting the arches and the axel moving later on due to the loose bolts
« Last Edit: September 02, 2012, 06:56:11 PM by steve223 »
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Offline Fun Police

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Re: Aussie Yengo Walk-In
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2012, 08:51:49 PM »
Good luck with it all and keep us informed.
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Offline Fun Police

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Re: Aussie Yengo Walk-In
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2012, 08:53:08 PM »
.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2012, 08:54:39 PM by Fun Police »
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Offline xmasbaby67

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Re: Aussie Yengo Walk-In
« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2012, 11:37:12 AM »
Oh God how heartbreaking  :'(  After waiting all that time and then to have this happen.

Hope you get it all sorted soon.
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Offline clausmichael

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Re: Aussie Yengo Walk-In
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2012, 09:52:54 AM »
Hi, this is Claus from Great Aussie Campers, and I thought I comment on Steve’s experience with our trailers.

Steve had an unlucky outback experience and now thinks it is all Great Aussie Camper’s fault. Steve called me once in Broken Hill indicating that the right wheel hit the mudguard and left some rubber marks inside the mudguard. He had it checked by a trailer place in Broken Hill and confirmed that all was ok. I asked Steve if the axle had moved. He confirmed that all was in order.

He calls me again a few days later, this time from Bourke and the axle has moved. The movement appears having sheered the centre bolt and loosened the U-Bolts.

Steve has a standard Yengo off road trailer which we have sold a lot over the last few years. This is after all our bestseller. We have tested the trailers extensively off road and our customers have used them off road. Quite a few customers made the big lap (Cape York, Kimberley etc) and had no problem whatsoever. We believe our Yengo, the same specs Steve got, is well built for an off road trailer.

For the axle to move, Steve must either hit something very hard, driven too fast (not to conditions) or have overloaded the trailer. Normal off road use cannot move the axle.

Steve’s trailer has 7 leaf outback springs, rated at 1530 kg; the 45 mm square axle is rated at 1350 kg, the total trailer is rated at 1350 kg. I had a fully laden camper on a weighbridge and it came in at 1120 kg. This included 2 full gas bottles, a full 85 litre water tank, a full kitchen with gear, chairs, table, benches, firewood, axe, shove, chain saw, lights, 5 litre of petrol and some food.

For Steve’s trailer to sag with 1530 kg rated springs it must be overloaded or he must be driving too fast for the prevailing conditions or both.

Axles are traditionally fitted on top of the springs, not below. Every camper trailer manufacturer I know of puts the axle on top; the centre bolt has a nut on top and again every camper trailer manufacturer I know leaves the axle this way and does not flip the centre bolt. Alko Wetherill Park confirmed that this is the proper way for assembly. (BTW, I have checked the axle location and the nut location of the spring centre bolt of my 76 series Toyota Landcruiser, and guess what, the axle is on top of the springs and the nut is on top, not on the bottom of the springs....)

The U Bolts are fitted with a pneumatic rattle run which are run by a large 3 phase compressor. Steve has a photo of the U Bolts on my swag when the trailer left our factory and we could count the free threads. We run a test and assembled the same axle and the same U-Bolts and at a fully tightened position had the same amount of threads. This is proof that the U-Bolts were properly tightened. It is unnecessary to tighten the U-Bolts routinely after 500 km. However, common sense would indicate that during off road use you check your trailer every day so that you can attend to any issues if something ever gets lose or starts sheering.

Steve ordered a standard Yengo which we provide with a 45 mm square axle. They come standard with a Landcruiser Hub. This is the name of the stud patterns (indicating it fits on an 80 series Landcruiser or a Landcruiser Prado). It does, however, not imply that Toyota builds the hub. The 45 mm square axle does not come with parallel bearings but with standard bearings. Steve could have upgraded to our heavy duty upgrade (50 x 50 x 3 mm chassis, 100 x 50 x 3 mm drawbar, 50 mm axle with parallel bearings, rated at 1600 kg) at an extra cost of $ 990 but he elected to go for the standard specs. He cannot now criticise the bearings of the standard specs.

We have manufactured many Yengos with the exact specs as Steve’s Yengo and never had any problems with wheel travel. I have taken a test trailer with only 6 leaf springs to the Oodnadatta Track and had no problems whatsoever. I was driving to conditions and my camper was not overloaded so again, I must guess that Steve did not do what common sense would indicate he should.

We believe that our 2000 mm drawbar has at standard specs sufficient strength. We never had a problem with a cracked drawbar. Even Steve does not have a problem with a cracked drawbar; he just worries that it might crack... Again, he could have done for the heavy off road upgrade if he was that worried but perhaps he did not want to spend another $ 990 for it.



Offline Matto

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Re: Aussie Yengo Walk-In
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2012, 10:31:11 AM »
Thanks for taking the time to reply Claus. Like everything in life, there's 2 sides to every story.

Aside - I work in law, where there's usually (at least) 3 side; his story, her story, and the truth (multiple versions of it, too)...

Now that both sides have had a chance to state their position, can I respectfully suggest that the parties involved either take this offline, or move this discussion to it's own thread? Technically this is Fun Police's thread to talk about his camper, and not the correct place to have this sort of discussion. I'm sure none of us want the mods to get called in with their shiny banhammers.  :police:

Now that that's done, I wanted to take the opportunity to demand that Fun Police shower us with more photos, because we all know...  :worthles:

Cheers!
Matto :)
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Offline steve223

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Re: Aussie Yengo Campers
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2012, 07:58:04 PM »
I will start a new threat for this but would like to post a quick reply to Claus response:

I ordered the full off road version and the off road update I paid for included the 7 leaves springs I was never offered a the upgrade Claus describes nor is it on their options list.


- the trailer is not overloaded has not been driven to fast or hit anything, we traveled in convoy and used the same lines the GIC Extrem offroad had no problems whatsoever. Since we installed the additional shocks in Bourke we had no wheels touching the arches anymore and the trailer behaves so much better. Just as a comparisons we had a Camel  off road staying with us in Expedition National park which had same seven Alco suspension and 220 mm room in wheel arches vs our 120 mm.
- According to ALCO the U bolts need to be re- tightened after 500k 's which we where never advised of. The axle came loose after traveling two days on unsealed roads and NO heave off road driving or driving on unmarked roads or 4 wheel tracks. Again according to both engineering places and Alco there is no way the nuts of you bolts came loose by hitting something but because they where not re tightened.
- According to Alco the centre bolt is supposed to be on top not bottom with the Axel set up I have, again I'm just repeating Alco's advise.
- yes it is correct that I had no issue with the draw bar yet however both engineering places in Broken Hill and Bourke advised that for the length of he draw its was to weak. I'm not an engineer so just stating what two independent specialists advised.

Anyway as per Clause advise I hope I can get the issues rectified by Great Aussie Campers upon my return without the need of taking any additional steps.

You only see how good a companies customer service is if something goes wrong so let's hope it is as good as it was promised.

Steve
« Last Edit: September 07, 2012, 08:00:29 PM by steve223 »
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Offline McGirr

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Re: Aussie Yengo Campers
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2012, 10:14:39 PM »

Steve

Just some points. I have had ford slimline bearings on trackabout campers when we hired them out and they did the Cape not stop. We would repackage them after each hire that was roughly 2000 klms.

Regarding the u bolts I double nut mine and check them after every stop if traveling on dirt / rough roads. I have a 2004 tough country camper and after this years trip to the Cape my axle did move slightly. I understand you did not travel on rough tracks but sometimes things can happen.

I wish you all the best.

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Offline steve223

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Re: Aussie Yengo Campers
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2012, 07:12:57 AM »
Hi Mark,

tracks to Mutawintji and Wanaaring where unsealed roads and had a fair bit of corrugation, and yes I now also have double nuts and check every day. But you can't do what you don't know and presonally I would think a 16k Camper Trailer build in Australia by "CT specialists" should come with a bit more information then a set up sheet for the awning.

If I was told we need to check ubolts every day I would certainly have done it.

The additional  fitted shocks made a hughe positive difference to behaviour of trailer and took the bounce of it.

After just returning from 5 days in Expedition NP here in QLD we have had no further issues.

best regards
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Offline Fun Police

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Aussie Yengo Campers
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2012, 07:25:36 AM »
Steve
Hope is all gets sorted for you.

Is your drawbar 75x50 or 100x50??
I was looking at mine and it is 100x50, maybe because it is the walk-in model, that's where I was getting confused when I commented the size was plenty strong enough - it definitely is for mine.

How much for the shocks?  I think it looks like a great idea regardless.

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Offline steve223

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Re: Aussie Yengo Campers
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2012, 07:41:41 AM »
Hi,

My draw bar is 70 x 50 x 3 mm the one you have would be fine.

When I bought the Great Aussie Camper after spending two days on the Sydney Show I clearly specified I wanted the fulloff road and I was told the only update to fulloff road was the 7 leaves springs the other updates Claus mentioned now I was never offered.

I paid AU$400 and that was Bourke same day price, you get some good tough dog shocks for $200 + the welding.The difference is day and night and if I would run GAC I would do this by default.

Steve
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Re: Aussie Yengo Campers
« Reply #17 on: September 08, 2012, 07:57:37 AM »
The additional  fitted shocks made a hughe positive difference to behaviour of trailer and took the bounce of it.

Sounds like it is sprung too heavy for the loaded weight if it was bouncing around with rebound springs. I had 7 leaf Alko rebound in my Tambo and it would bounce around empty however when loaded didn't bounce.
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Offline steve223

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Re: Aussie Yengo Campers
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2012, 08:26:47 AM »
Hi, this is Claus from Great Aussie Campers, and I thought I comment on Steve’s experience with our trailers.

Steve had an unlucky outback experience and now thinks it is all Great Aussie Camper’s fault. Steve called me once in Broken Hill indicating that the right wheel hit the mudguard and left some rubber marks inside the mudguard. He had it checked by a trailer place in Broken Hill and confirmed that all was ok. I asked Steve if the axle had moved. He confirmed that all was in order.

- - Correct at this time the Axel had not moved, not all was in order though, as the wheel arches all along the site have been pushed upwards and are buckled and some welds have cracked and that's what I told you from Broken Hills and sent you images off

Quote
He calls me again a few days later, this time from Bourke and the axle has moved. The movement appears having sheered the centre bolt and loosened the U-Bolts.

-- according to the engineer and Alco it is the other way around the centre bolt has been sheered by the loose u-bolts and not the other way around.

Quote
Steve has a standard Yengo off road trailer which we have sold a lot over the last few years. This is after all our bestseller. We have tested the trailers extensively off road and our customers have used them off road. Quite a few customers made the big lap (Cape York, Kimberley etc) and had no problem whatsoever. We believe our Yengo, the same specs Steve got, is well built for an off road trailer.

For the axle to move, Steve must either hit something very hard, driven too fast (not to conditions) or have overloaded the trailer. Normal off road use cannot move the axle.

-- according to Alco and Hatch Engineering in Bourke this is incorrect as the wheel nuts are supposed to be re-tightened after 500k's which you failed to mention in your documentation, or even when I called from Broken Hill. If I would have knowen I would have obviously done this. A pair of batteries comes with more instructions then the trailer.

Quote
Steve’s trailer has 7 leaf outback springs, rated at 1530 kg; the 45 mm square axle is rated at 1350 kg, the total trailer is rated at 1350 kg. I had a fully laden camper on a weighbridge and it came in at 1120 kg. This included 2 full gas bottles, a full 85 litre water tank, a full kitchen with gear, chairs, table, benches, firewood, axe, shove, chain saw, lights, 5 litre of petrol and some food.

For Steve’s trailer to sag with 1530 kg rated springs it must be overloaded or he must be driving too fast for the prevailing conditions or both.

-- the trailer did not sag as such but clearly must have bottomed out during the drive to Mutawintji however there is no DAMAGE from hitting anything under the trailer nor do we have the trailer overloaded.


Quote
Axles are traditionally fitted on top of the springs, not below. Every camper trailer manufacturer I know of puts the axle on top; the centre bolt has a nut on top and again every camper trailer manufacturer I know leaves the axle this way and does not flip the centre bolt. Alko Wetherill Park confirmed that this is the proper way for assembly. (BTW, I have checked the axle location and the nut location of the spring centre bolt of my 76 series Toyota Landcruiser, and guess what, the axle is on top of the springs and the nut is on top, not on the bottom of the springs....)

-- I'm no expert in this area I just repeated what AL-CO Australia told me over the phone and the Engineer told me


Quote
The U Bolts are fitted with a pneumatic rattle run which are run by a large 3 phase compressor. Steve has a photo of the U Bolts on my swag when the trailer left our factory and we could count the free threads. We run a test and assembled the same axle and the same U-Bolts and at a fully tightened position had the same amount of threads. This is proof that the U-Bolts were properly tightened. It is unnecessary to tighten the U-Bolts routinely after 500 km. However, common sense would indicate that during off road use you check your trailer every day so that you can attend to any issues if something ever gets lose or starts sheering.

-- Comon sense would indicate that you advise people who pay 16k for a trailer of the things to watch out for and to check Ubolts. Thts why every car manufactuerer has service guidelines amnd tells you what to look out for. And again we did not do heavy off roading with the trailer or abused it in any way we travel with family and have no inclination whatsoever to damage our car or trailer on purpose.

Quote
Steve ordered a standard Yengo which we provide with a 45 mm square axle. They come standard with a Landcruiser Hub. This is the name of the stud patterns (indicating it fits on an 80 series Landcruiser or a Landcruiser Prado). It does, however, not imply that Toyota builds the hub. The 45 mm square axle does not come with parallel bearings but with standard bearings. Steve could have upgraded to our heavy duty upgrade (50 x 50 x 3 mm chassis, 100 x 50 x 3 mm drawbar, 50 mm axle with parallel bearings, rated at 1600 kg) at an extra cost of $ 990 but he elected to go for the standard specs. He cannot now criticise the bearings of the standard specs.

-- Claus I made it very clear when I purchased on the show that I wanted a fulloff road trailer and the only update I was offered for that where the 7 leave spring which I took up!!! This is the first time I hear about a "heavy duty" upgrade.

when I called you before we lefty and ask you the make of the bearings and hubs you said Toyota so I would think any reasonable person would assume they are manufactured by Toyota hence the confusion.

Quote
We have manufactured many Yengos with the exact specs as Steve’s Yengo and never had any problems with wheel travel. I have taken a test trailer with only 6 leaf springs to the Oodnadatta Track and had no problems whatsoever. I was driving to conditions and my camper was not overloaded so again, I must guess that Steve did not do what common sense would indicate he should.

-- yea just blame it on the customer, you handed over the off road camper with standard road tires without noticing, and it seems like I clearly had the circumstances and conditions where the wheels would touch the arches and bent them up without being overloaded, driving to fast or hitting something which several people who traveled in our group can confirm.

Quote
We believe that our 2000 mm drawbar has at standard specs sufficient strength. We never had a problem with a cracked drawbar. Even Steve does not have a problem with a cracked drawbar; he just worries that it might crack... Again, he could have done for the heavy off road upgrade if he was that worried but perhaps he did not want to spend another $ 990 for it.

-- Again I'm no expert there it's just strange that the Camper Trailer place in Broken Hill and
Engineering place in Bourke both said right away that the 2m 70 x50 x3 mm draw bar is not sufficient and I did not fancy myself and the family with a broken draw bar somewhere in Expedition National Park. I would think you have a engineering certificate stating that a 2m 70x50x3mm draw bar is sufficient for a off road trailer with the given load rating??

Anyway as suggested I will come in next week and hope we can resolve the issue amicably as otherwise I happy with the trailer.

steve
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Offline D4D

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Re: Aussie Yengo Campers
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2012, 08:31:42 AM »
when I called you before we lefty and ask you the make of the bearings and hubs you said Toyota so I would think any reasonable person would assume they are manufactured by Toyota hence the confusion.

I am a 'reasonable person' and I know that 'Toyota hubs' means Toyota stud pattern not manufactured by Toyota...

Why not post some pics so we can see the issues you're talking about?

Hope you get it sorted.
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Offline steve223

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Re: Aussie Yengo Campers
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2012, 09:20:30 AM »
learning something new every day, as mentioned  I'm not worried about the hubs thats fine and I do now understand that this are slim line ford hubs with a Toyota Land Cruiser stud pattern and NOT actually Toyota manufactured hubs.
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Offline Ranger07

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Re: Aussie Yengo Campers
« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2012, 10:21:03 AM »
If the Yengo was taken on the Oodnadatta Track as an off road test it wasn't much of a test in my opinion as the Oodnadatta is nothing more than a dirt road not much of a challenge...

Offline steve223

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Re: Aussie Yengo Campers
« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2012, 11:07:32 AM »
Since the bolts have been re-tightened by Hatch Engineering and we put double lock nuts on they have not moved a mm even aft a week in Expedition NP, fact is after we discovered the moved axel and checked bolts to winch axel back in place ALL bolts where loose and according to Hatch and Al-Co they where just not tightened enough the first time around by Great Aussie Campers no matter what Claus says. It sounds not very plausible in my mind that all bolts get loose by corrougation or rough tracks and I'm certainly not loosening the bolts on my trailer to have some added adventure.

Anyway will now enjoy the last leg of our trip and deal with the issue when back in Sydney and see what the 2 year Great Aussie Camper warranty is worth.

« Last Edit: September 08, 2012, 11:09:05 AM by steve223 »
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Offline D4D

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Re: Aussie Yengo Campers
« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2012, 11:33:16 AM »
It sounds not very plausible in my mind that all bolts get loose by corrougation or rough tracks and I'm certainly not loosening the bolts on my trailer to have some added adventure.

I guess that is why numerous times on this forum people talk about checking your nuts. Just as well you don't own a Patrol...
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Offline Brett

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Re: Aussie Yengo Campers
« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2012, 12:15:35 PM »
Here are some photos just to back Steve up on the Alco springs and axle moving. You dont need to Hit anything for the centre leaf pack bolt to break and the axle to move. You just need loose bolts as was our case back in 2010 with a development trailer from Trackabout.


The moved axle. Less than 100km on good gravel road heading west from Cooktown.


Bush repairs. Now I remember why I shave my head!  :-[
Cheers
Brett