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Author Topic: Snatching from towballs  (Read 25290 times)

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Offline listo

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Re: Snatching from towballs
« Reply #25 on: July 13, 2015, 07:27:09 PM »
Quote from: StevenB on July 13, 2015, 08:28:28 AM
snatch straps can just be dangerous http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/man-hurt-in-bogged-4wd-in-sydneys-west/story-e6frfku9-1227439387018

their is also a pretty nasty video floating around with the results of a tow ball hitting someone


I'll second that one.
When I was an apprentice at Cunnamulla, we were over here in St George working & I bogged the bucket truck. We were trying to snatch it out with a cruiser, they had a rectangular hole cut out in the back gate then for a step, when I was relieved of driving the bucket (due to burning the clutch  ::)). After getting out, two other newer apprentices were standing fairly close to the action, so I let them know to clear out as if it breaks & hits one, it'll kill them. They had a laugh & kept talking so I let them know it wasn't a gee up & get out.
You couldn't have gotten better timing, a couple to snatches later, the strap snapped & the cruiser end flew back through the hole in the tail gate hitting a hard hat. The damage it did to the hat was amazing, stoving in one side of it. It's scary to think what it would do to an unprotected head.
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Offline oldmate

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Re: Snatching from towballs
« Reply #26 on: July 13, 2015, 07:42:07 PM »
Regardless of what some people think it's another reason you use a dampener on a strap or winch cable. Better to be safe then sorry.
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Offline kleyny

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Re: Snatching from towballs
« Reply #27 on: July 13, 2015, 08:11:06 PM »
Unfortunate incident thats for sure.

I think the media has it wrong. They are saying the strap broke, if it did both shackles would still be attached to the recovery points.
So something else has gone a miss.

I think this is a timely reminder to check your recovery gear and the recovery points on your rig what ever the case.

Think safe stay safe when playing guys.

Neil

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scarpsD40

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Re: Snatching from towballs
« Reply #28 on: July 13, 2015, 08:25:50 PM »

Quote from: kleyny on July 13, 2015, 08:11:06 PM
Unfortunate incident thats for sure.

I think the media has it wrong. They are saying the strap broke, if it did both shackles would still be attached to the recovery points.
So something else has gone a miss.

I think this is a timely reminder to check your recovery gear and the recovery points on your rig what ever the case.

Think safe stay safe when playing guys.

Neil
agree, I'm wondering if they were snatching off a tie down point instead of a rated recovery point. For the strap and shackle to come through the back and hit him in the back of the head, it has to have broken away from the tow vehicle. So sad that things like this happen.
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Offline oldmate

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Re: Snatching from towballs
« Reply #29 on: July 13, 2015, 08:55:57 PM »
Quote from: scarpsD40 on July 13, 2015, 08:25:50 PM
agree, I'm wondering if they were snatching off a tie down point instead of a rated recovery point. For the strap and shackle to come through the back and hit him in the back of the head, it has to have broken away from the tow vehicle. So sad that things like this happen.

Yep agreed
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Offline Bird

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Re: Snatching from towballs
« Reply #30 on: July 13, 2015, 09:46:49 PM »
how much force??

Have a read...
http://www.whyalla4wd.org.au/Shackles.html

Determine Speed of Shackle if Snatch Strap Breaks.

If all the Elastic Energy of the Snatch Strap is transferred to Kinetic Energy in the Shackle then the peak Speed of the Shackle as the Snatch Strap returns to it's 9.0m length can be determined. (Assuming no losses due to friction)

From Energy Conservation,

    Elastic Energy in Snatch Strap = Kinetic Energy of Shackle
    PEStrap = KEShackle
    1/2 k x2 = 1/2 m v2
    where k = spring constant
    x = distance stretched (meters)
    m = mass of shackle (kg)
    v = velocity of shackle (m/s)
    1/2 (20750N/m) (0.579m)2 = 1/2 (0.68kg) v2
    v = 101m/s

    or Peak Speed of Shackle   v = 364 km/h
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Offline Bad Scott

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Re: Snatching from towballs
« Reply #31 on: July 13, 2015, 09:49:59 PM »
Quote from: Bird on July 13, 2015, 09:46:49 PM
how much force??

Have a read...
http://www.whyalla4wd.org.au/Shackles.html

Determine Speed of Shackle if Snatch Strap Breaks.

If all the Elastic Energy of the Snatch Strap is transferred to Kinetic Energy in the Shackle then the peak Speed of the Shackle as the Snatch Strap returns to it's 9.0m length can be determined. (Assuming no losses due to friction)

From Energy Conservation,

    Elastic Energy in Snatch Strap = Kinetic Energy of Shackle
    PEStrap = KEShackle
    1/2 k x2 = 1/2 m v2
    where k = spring constant
    x = distance stretched (meters)
    m = mass of shackle (kg)
    v = velocity of shackle (m/s)
    1/2 (20750N/m) (0.579m)2 = 1/2 (0.68kg) v2
    v = 101m/s

    or Peak Speed of Shackle   v = 364 km/h

Hope that was a cut n paste >:D
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Offline BaseCamp

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Re: Snatching from towballs
« Reply #32 on: July 13, 2015, 10:22:23 PM »
Whilst we have a nanny state where the manufacturers in China etc have to print THIS IS NOT A TOY KEEP AWAY FROM CHILDREN on throwaway plastic bags whose purpose is packaging. ....   dreadfully there is no warning printed permanently on snatch straps etc....

How wretched that the importers of these products are not sued into oblivion for putting 50 cents or so additional profit  (aka the cost of printing a warning notice on the strap)....  ahead of customers' and other victims' lives and wellbeing....

Sadly in this case the industry's gross negligence cannot be laughed off as a case of group incompetence ...

They (4WD accessory importers) know about the dangers.....       They will happily package and market tree huggers becuase it represents an "add on sale" -- surely? ......      grrrr

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Offline Pog

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Re: Snatching from towballs
« Reply #33 on: July 13, 2015, 10:32:53 PM »
Quote from: BaseCamp on July 13, 2015, 10:22:23 PM
............dreadfully there is no warning printed permanently on snatch straps etc....

It wouldn't make any difference. (Sadly)
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Offline duggie

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Re: Snatching from towballs
« Reply #34 on: July 14, 2015, 07:20:23 AM »
This happened yesterday, last night 9.20pm
sounds like it may have been a tow ball recovery gone real bad.


http://www.theherald.com.au/story/3206068/flying-tow-strap-hits-teen-on-head-after-4wd-bogged-in-castlereagh/?cs=12

I hope the young man recovers.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2015, 07:25:36 AM by duggie »
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Offline Aaron Schubert

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Re: Snatching from towballs
« Reply #35 on: July 14, 2015, 07:58:43 AM »
There's a lot of rumours going around at the moment. From what I gather, it was something that went wrong with a shackle, not a tow ball.

Either way, lets hope the young lad pulls through.

Aaron
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Offline Bird

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Re: Snatching from towballs
« Reply #36 on: July 14, 2015, 08:14:43 AM »
Quote from: BaseCamp
Sadly in this case the industry's gross negligence cannot be laughed off as a case of group incompetence ...

They (4WD accessory importers) know about the dangers

So your saying they should run full training on the use of every single item (Duty of care) or stop selling it.... ??? At what point do you draw a line and realise people need to take *some* responsibility? I bought a dozen forks the other day, no warning label on them... **** I should sue em.


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Offline Bad Scott

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Re: Snatching from towballs
« Reply #37 on: July 14, 2015, 08:50:24 AM »
Quote from: Bird on July 14, 2015, 08:14:43 AM
So your saying they should run full training on the use of every single item (Duty of care) or stop selling it.... ??? At what point do you draw a line and realise people need to take *some* responsibility? I bought a dozen forks the other day, no warning label on them... **** I should sue em.


Stop the world, I wanna get off.
for the forks sake don't injure ya self  ;D

Totally agree with ya here Bird. Common sense is spiraling downwards these days for a fast buck
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Offline wilson79

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Re: Snatching from towballs
« Reply #38 on: July 14, 2015, 08:52:52 AM »
Heard a rumour that they may have joined 2 straps together with a shackle...
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Offline BaseCamp

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Re: Snatching from towballs
« Reply #39 on: July 14, 2015, 09:01:16 AM »
Bird - did I mention ANYTHING about (a) full-blown "duty of Care" issues being needed; (b) a suggestion that a full training programme on the safe use of everything 4WD was required...

No, of course I didn't..

What I was saying was that in this "World Gone Mad" Nanny State we live in - the greed or couldn't-care-less attitude of 4WD accessory importers means that no 50 cents is spent (on permanently printing warning notices) -- that will warn of the dangers of incorrectly using snatch straps....   

Shoot - the warning could be as simple as a Stick Figure's brains coming out of its skull being illustrated ... as an airborne high velocity, incorrectly attached snatch strap is shown...

It may not be immediately evident to weekend warrior 4WDers that attaching a snatch to a tow ball is dangerous and potentially lethal...   

After all; they may have already (a) seen their mates do it a few times; (b) seen in done plenty of times in social media such as the clip above on fugbook; (c) done it a few times already themselves - 'without consequence or tragedy'; (d) it seems a 'logical' thing to do eg: "I pull and tow with that thing [the tow ball] -- how could this be any different [snatching from a bog]; (e) then yuk - given the choice of recovery; (rummaging around under the vehicle in the mud vs wrapping the snatch strap quickly and conveniently around the tow ball -- of course you can easily guess what will be their default position...; (f) then the media reporting these tragic incidences such as Channel 9 in the post above don't help either...   reporting what happened as "freak accidents"; or "tragic accidents"....     These things are no "accident"...

No Bird; clearly we all need to unite in this matter with better attitudes and concern regarding the safe use of some of the equip we use..... and what the suppliers are going to do about it....


Quote from: Bird on July 14, 2015, 08:14:43 AM
So your saying they should run full training on the use of every single item (Duty of care) or stop selling it.... ??? At what point do you draw a line and realise people need to take *some* responsibility? I bought a dozen forks the other day, no warning label on them... **** I should sue em.


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Offline gronk

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Re: Snatching from towballs
« Reply #40 on: July 14, 2015, 09:10:47 AM »
Quote from: scarpsD40 on July 13, 2015, 08:25:50 PM
agree, I'm wondering if they were snatching off a tie down point instead of a rated recovery point. For the strap and shackle to come through the back and hit him in the back of the head, it has to have broken away from the tow vehicle. So sad that things like this happen.

Just remember, that just because you have a rated recovery point it doesn't automatically mean it is stronger than the original tie down point......if both of those points were attached to the chassis by two 10 or 12mm bolts, then the weakest point MAY be the bolts securing it ??      Or the strength of the chassis at that point ??
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Offline oldmate

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Re: Snatching from towballs
« Reply #41 on: July 14, 2015, 09:17:33 AM »
Quote from: duggie on July 14, 2015, 07:20:23 AM
This happened yesterday, last night 9.20pm
sounds like it may have been a tow ball recovery gone real bad.


http://www.theherald.com.au/story/3206068/flying-tow-strap-hits-teen-on-head-after-4wd-bogged-in-castlereagh/?cs=12

I hope the young man recovers.


The herald needs a new informant, it happened the night before last ;). Same story we have been talking about yesterday in this thread.  :D

Edit. It says Sunday night in the report. My bad herald :)
« Last Edit: July 14, 2015, 09:19:40 AM by oldmate »
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Offline tk421

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Re: Snatching from towballs
« Reply #42 on: July 14, 2015, 11:30:02 AM »
Quote from: BaseCamp on July 14, 2015, 09:01:16 AM



What I was saying was that in this "World Gone Mad" Nanny State we live in - the greed or couldn't-care-less attitude of 4WD accessory importers means that no 50 cents is spent (on permanently printing warning notices) -- that will warn of the dangers of incorrectly using snatch straps....   

Shoot - the warning could be as simple as a Stick Figure's brains coming out of its skull being illustrated ... as an airborne high velocity, incorrectly attached snatch strap is shown...

It may not be immediately evident to weekend warrior 4WDers that attaching a snatch to a tow ball is dangerous and potentially lethal...   


Pointless, because the weekend warriors and Mr Testosterone's in their 5" lifted hilux/GQ on 37" tires won't read the warning label anyway. They just need 'the berries'.
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Offline Rumpig

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Re: Snatching from towballs
« Reply #43 on: July 14, 2015, 11:51:38 AM »
Quote from: wilson79 on July 14, 2015, 08:52:52 AM
Heard a rumour that they may have joined 2 straps together with a shackle...
i've been wondering if they may have been the case, sort of explains how a shackle could have hit him, if one strap end broke where they were joined. Explains the strap broke reports atleast, but only those that were there know for sure how it happened at the moment I guess.
If it's the case, it's a shame they didn't know the simple safe way of joining them
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Offline Kangaron

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Re: Snatching from towballs
« Reply #44 on: July 14, 2015, 05:21:39 PM »
Was there something more sinister here or just a case of an educated idiot editor?

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Offline tk421

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Re: Snatching from towballs
« Reply #45 on: July 14, 2015, 05:30:41 PM »
Quote from: Kangaron on July 14, 2015, 05:21:39 PM
Was there something more sinister here or just a case of an educated idiot editor?

Just words. They're examining an accident scene which may or may not be the scene of a crime
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Offline kleyny

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Re: Snatching from towballs
« Reply #46 on: July 14, 2015, 08:01:42 PM »
Quote from: wilson79 on July 14, 2015, 08:52:52 AM
Heard a rumour that they may have joined 2 straps together with a shackle...

This would be on the top of my list now you mention it. In the photos the bog hole looks long enough for a double strap.

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Offline gv 2003

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Re: Snatching from towballs
« Reply #47 on: July 15, 2015, 07:32:47 PM »
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Offline steve.j

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Re: Snatching from towballs
« Reply #48 on: July 15, 2015, 09:37:54 PM »
Quote from: BaseCamp on July 13, 2015, 10:22:23 PM
Whilst we have a nanny state where the manufacturers in China etc have to print THIS IS NOT A TOY KEEP AWAY FROM CHILDREN on throwaway plastic bags whose purpose is packaging. ....   dreadfully there is no warning printed permanently on snatch straps etc....

How wretched that the importers of these products are not sued into oblivion for putting 50 cents or so additional profit  (aka the cost of printing a warning notice on the strap)....  ahead of customers' and other victims' lives and wellbeing....

Sadly in this case the industry's gross negligence cannot be laughed off as a case of group incompetence ...

They (4WD accessory importers) know about the dangers.....       They will happily package and market tree huggers becuase it represents an "add on sale" -- surely? ......      grrrr

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There is a warning on my strap, you do have to look for it tho.
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Offline xcvator

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Re: Snatching from towballs
« Reply #49 on: July 15, 2015, 09:41:27 PM »
Has anybody here ACTUALLY seen a towball shear off while being used as a recovery point  ??? Lots of rumour, innuendo and "youtube" which of course haven't been faked or staged  have they  >:D methinks it's an old wives tale propagated by marketers of 4wd accessories. Think about it, how is a 20mm bit of plate steel (recovery point ) stronger than a 20mm towball shank  ??? It's a bit like "rated" shackles, the instant that stamp goes on the side the price triples, it's all bullshyte, bullshyte I say
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