Carbon Tax

[efjay]

Nowhere on the goverments own website of harmful "pollutants" is co2 mentioned.  It isnt a pollutant.  Its a natural gas that all life in one way or another depends on. 

 

[Bird]

It will make the companies that pollut pay more, that is a good thing

The only companies that will pay more are the few who cant go offshore.. like the powerstations...

Everything else has/will go to China and countries like this, where they dont give a Shit and pay 1/1903280892309548230895th the wage.

[stepheng]

No lost that is correct but people will reduce their electricity useage by putting in solar or truning stuff off...it is allready happening....in the current economic climate if companies are going to put up their prices and then blame  it on the carbon tax, as they seem to want to do, people will just buy it from elsewere.

[LJs GU]

or turning stuff off...

All sounds well and good, but that's just not gonna happen in our household... or many others I reckon.  It's like saying you're not going to use as much petrol cos it's dearer.
LJ

(DAMN I entered into the debate)

[stepheng]

Lol at entering debate, I know what you mean.. I have three kids and have trained them to turn stuff off and put in solar, instant heating etc..I hear people power bills and I cant beleive it ($1k for a quarter), if my bills were that high, stuff would be turned off or be selling whatever it is, so it couldnt be turned on!!...The power companies have been jacking up their prices the day since the Government sold it to them, the carbon tax is just another excuse they will use, similiar to when the GST came in.

[LJs GU]

I have three kids and have trained them to... put in solar, instant heating etc..

   Wow your kids are a lot smarter than mine. My eldest is only just starting to learn his timetables.
I suppose it can't hurt to start them early on a trade though.

LJ

[Bird]

  Wow your kids are a lot smarter than mine.

Same... I've tried...
would be easier to make Jooooolia popular or to stop bullShitting than train my kids to turn a light off.

[stepheng]

mm not sure they are smarter, maybe I am better at bribery/blackmail, ie if you dont turn that off it goes in the bin....keep wasting my $ on water/lights/electricity/TV and there will be no $ for footy cards/make up/Toy Story crap you want..or my all time favourite, we are poor we have no money so ask your grandparents

[Trackaprado]

So we'd need to go from $23/tonne to $40/tonne to move to gas ... I'd like to know how much higher it would have to go to encourage the big power generators to move over to renewables.

And the current European Price for a tonne of carbon.  About 8.5 eruos (about $10).  But jee I've noticed who clean the air is is the last two days.  Oh hang on, its got nothing to do with cleaning up the environment has it.

[Ricklanga]

If the top 500 polluters have to pay a carbon tax (or whatever else anyone would like to call it) and they can pass this cost onto consumers, then their cost is offset by more revenue. So where is the incentive to produce less carbon?

x2

[Ricklanga]

Quote from: D4D on Yesterday at 21:36:26

    Joolia is the PM for the battlers and Swan thinks he is Robin Hood


Yes, but when there is nobody left to go through sherwood forest because they're broke or went elsewhere, what then?
The peasants will be greater in numbers, pregnant, hungry, lazy and her majesty will have no more mead and chickens to throw to them?
Robin hood will be tired and probably sick of being the only one working (albeit illegally and dishonestly - but it is politics so its ok to lie and cheat)
What will the have nots do then???

Oh woe is the day when one has to rise to the sun and toil in the fields to get food for the wenches and children.
Oh heavens above, we will have to hold a meeting on what to do.
Perhaps somewhere safe, like redhill. Lets call it a junket    free lunch     training exercise consultation conference.
We will gather, drink the reserves, baste the beasts and discuss perhaps for a minute whos fault it is. Lay the blame, shout and scream, promise to whip them, then rise to the next day.
A peasant can guide the steeds back to capitol hill where we can show victory and triumph over our achievement.
(Please fret nay - Oh wise ones.....By the time anyone realises we just got pissed and talked crapola at their expense, we will have devised some rebate to throw some corn into their haysacks and hold them till we triumph again at the next election with promises of future glory)

Now kiddies off to bed, and I'll go take my medication.
Sleep well, it could be worse, and trust me, shes trying to make it so.

Very Shakespearian 

[efjay]

[Big Nath]

No lost that is correct but people will reduce their electricity useage by putting in solar or truning stuff off...it is allready happening....in the current economic climate if companies are going to put up their prices and then blame  it on the carbon tax, as they seem to want to do, people will just buy it from elsewere.

The problem with that is, there is more energy used in producing these panels than they will ever save. There is no such thing as perpetual energy.

[Chris F]

If you can't (or won't) stop your kids from wasting electricity it can only mean one of two things.

• You can't control your kids
• Electricity is too cheap for you to care about it

[Bill]

mm didnt want to get into this debate BUT..the carbon tax will not stop other countries polluting but will reduce Australia's pollution and over time hopefully see more investment in green energy etc that is a good thing...I know you will go you hippy aint gonna happen. Have a look at how many people now have solar on their campers and homes...I have both and apart from the savings I reckon it is great to make my own electricity...5 or 10 years ago, the cost was prohibitive and never going to happen...like computers it will only get cheaper.

It will make the companies that pollut pay more, that is a good thing....they will either pass it onto their customers and customers will go somewere else or invest in cheaper alternatives, that is a good thing.

I am no scientist but if it reduces the amount of pollution in Australia and makes it a better environment for my children, that is a good thing and I am happy to pay a bit extra for that.

How is "customers going elsewhere" a good thing???
Bill

[jnik]

Now a final point for you to consider is the fact that 97% of TOTAL co2 output is natural...yep our man made pissy 3% is going to do what?

Actually I think 3% is a lot. And it doesn't stop there. It's not just about the CO2 we emit, we're also responsible for significantly reducing (through deforestation) the capacity of the earth to turn the CO2 back into carbon and oxygen.

"The atmospheric CO2 concentration has increased by about 37% since pre-industrialization times" ... that's a very significant change.

And we shouldn't ignore "tipping point" factors too ... e.g. as the size of the ice caps shrink, less of the sun's energy is reflected back into space, causing the arctic (/antarctic) seas to warm, melting more ice which accelerates the process.

How much have the ice caps shrunk already? Check this out: http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/thick-melt.html.
 

[LJs GU]

If you can't (or won't) stop your kids from wasting electricity it can only mean one of two things.

• You can't control your kids
• Electricity is too cheap for you to care about it

Yes AND yes
LJ

[Big Nath]

Actually I think 3% is a lot. And it doesn't stop there. It's not just about the CO2 we emit, we're also responsible for significantly reducing (through deforestation) the capacity of the earth to turn the CO2 back into carbon and oxygen.

"The atmospheric CO2 concentration has increased by about 37% since pre-industrialization times" ... that's a very significant change.

And we shouldn't ignore "tipping point" factors too ... e.g. as the size of the ice caps shrink, less of the sun's energy is reflected back into space, causing the arctic (/antarctic) seas to warm, melting more ice which accelerates the process.

How much have the ice caps shrunk already? Check this out: http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/thick-melt.html.

3% is lots....

Quick stop farting

[Mrs smith]

The way I see it, the more people move away from coal power the dearer it'll become for a period of time. Companies will increase tariffs  to compensate for the loss of revenue.

[schmik]

What's all this rubbish about carbon and the environment?

Make the "rich", aka Joe Average, pay more through an indirect tax and redistribute it to the poor. 

They have handed out so much money that now you can get Benefits on $100k as long as you pop out some kiddies.  No wonder we all feel entitled.  Probably 60% of society is on some sort of benefit. The other 38% are sick of paying for it and the top 2% don't give a ferkle.

Aussie Battler. What does that even mean anymore?

[Robbo]

Well if the government was that concerned about the effects of pollution on the global enviornment they would stop the sale of our coal to china where it makes more pollution than we care to think about. I'm sure they are'nt going to do that are they which makes them a bunch of theiving hyprocites and this so called "carbon tax "just another form of indirect taxation. 

[Bird]

They have handed out so much money that now you can get Benefits on $100k as long as you pop out some kiddies.

mate of mine is renting a house (DDR knows him), to a single mum..
She works 3 days, and is on benefits for the rest, and her income is $1100 a week...
Wish I got that for 3 days work..

Well if the government was that concerned about the effects of pollution on the global enviornment they would stop the sale of our coal to china where it makes more pollution than we care to think about. I'm sure they are'nt going to do that are they which makes them a bunch of theiving hyprocites and this so called "carbon tax "just another form of indirect taxation. 

See more people are understanding it...

[cucinadio]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=490055971020443&set=a.223592677666775.73092.223583594334350&type=1&ref=nf

[efjay]

When your family, friends or associates cannot explain why they voted Labor, give them this list. Then they can then pick a reason from this "TOP 12".

1. I voted Labor because I love the fact that I can now marry whomsoever and whatever I want. I've decided to marry my German Shepherd dog.

2. I voted Labor because I believe the oil companies' profits of 4% on petrol is obscene, but the government taxing the same fuel at 35% isn't. The double whammy of 10% GST after that is only fair. The Government must have the money for welfare and anything to stop the use of motor vehicles is laudable.

3. I voted Labor because I believe the government will do a better job of spending the money I earn than I would. The Carbon Tax, pink bats in every roof (to save the world), the Education revolution, the NBN, money to the IMF and the EU, helping unfortunate Islamic refugees (who always have no papers or passports) into the privileges of the Australian welfare system, running a fair Justice system (without favour) and giving the Trade Unions a fair go - against rich, foreign owned, greedy and domineering Companies. These are all sound policies to redistribute wealth fairly and empower those not yet on full entitlements.

4. I voted Labor because Freedom of Speech is fine as long as nobody is offended by it. Political correctness must overcome the racists who dislike illegal immigrants, angry mobs, global warming deniers and other right wing extremists.

5. I voted Labor because I'm way too silly and irresponsible to own a gun, (and certainly not allowed by Australian law), and I know that my local police are all I need to protect me from murderers, thugs and thieves.

6. I voted Labor because I believe that people who can't tell us if it will rain on Friday can tell us that the polar ice caps will melt away in ten years if I don't start driving a Prius. I believe that it will never rain properly again, that Global warming will kill us all unless we stop using fossil fuels. I am terrified of the prospect of the sea levels being 30 metres higher in 20 years. Tim Flannery is my idea of a new generation man. Always accurate and honest -- just like our PM.

7. I voted Labor because I'm not concerned about millions of babies being aborted so long as we keep all convicted criminals alive.

8. I voted Labor because I think illegal aliens have a right to free health care, education, and social security benefits, and we should take the social security away from those who have spent a lifetime paying into it.

9. I voted Labor because I believe that businesses should not be allowed to make profits for themselves. They need to break even and give the rest away to the government for redistribution as the Greens see fit.

10. I voted Labor because I believe Left Wing and Green judges need to rewrite the Australian Constitution and regulatory law books every few days to suit some fringe weirdos who would never be able to get their agendas past the voters.

11. I voted Labor because I think that it's better to pay billions for oil and petrol to people who really hate us, but not to drill more of our own because it might upset some endangered beetle, turtle or fish.

12. I voted Labor because my head is so firmly planted up my rear end that it is totally unlikely that I will ever be able to entertain another point of view

[Hairs]