Which household Solar company do you recommend?

[jetcrew]

Plaese don't take my comments as a solar bashing as you all know I love solar power, but just be fully informed about both the windfalls and pitfalls before you go into it.

I really wish there was a rebate avail for the conversion of households onto DC power. In europe there are houses that are compleatley powered off solar no grid power at all and the avaerge panel array is 2kw. this is because of the type of appliances being used.

Take a look in top end vans and motorhomes ,they are very flash and have every mod con avail and often are solar powered. The cost of these appliances is the big factor, and I wish there was a green rebate on any appliance that is dc powered. So a $4000 dc fridge frezzer would cost arond the same as 240V one then people would buy them.

When my house fridge dies it will be replaced with a dc fridge and 2 batteries and arond 200watts of solar this will run my fridge all year round no probs , and the kitchen lights will be 12v led, pool pump will be solar powered and so will water pump.

It really is amazing how many things are solar/dc powered but the prob is they cost more. If the govt was serious about green energy and carbon footprint they would give good rebates to people to reduce our emissions by going green.

I have heard and this is only tradie talk so it's not confirmed and if someone can rebut it please do so, that in some suburbs to many larger systems have been installed onto the grid and the power companies limit the grid feed in. So you have paid for 4kw and are wondering why it just doen't seem to give you as much saving as you thought. Like I said not confirmed maybe one of the sparkys can give opinion.

The best thing you can do to limit your elec usage is to use less, if your reading this turn around and have a look at how many things are switched on right now that you are not using. (just had to go turn bathroom light off blooduy kids).

Or best way to reduce your power usage at home ...GO CAMPING

JET  

[tagman]

We installed a 3.5 kw system 15 months ago. $10k out of pocket. Previous bill was on average $650.
The largest bill we have had in 15 months was $62.30.

We saved over $2300 in the first 12 months. That is way better than bank interest. Where else can I invest $10k and get a return of $2300 in 12 months?

The system came from NICHOLS SOLAR based in Brisbane.

[jclures]

As jetcrew said, this what I was referring to, I fitted a 1.5kw system but I had a 2kw inverter installed in the deal, I now have the extra 2 panels fitted, as my cost as I can afford to. I have saved around $100 per month now on my bill.

[loshde]

We've had our 5kw system in for 18mths now.  The system has worked perfectly and we are happy with the results.  We used Integral and while we were initially very happy with them as they answered every question we had and felt that we knew more after talking with them.  Once they got our deposit they just became increasingly more difficult to deal with, added charges (about $800) because of being a high set roof (which they already knew about) and extra travel charge because it was a two day job, not one (they obviously knew that it was going to take more than one day to fit so many panels when they quoted).  They just continually irritated the crap out of us.  The contractors that did the fit out were terrific.  We wouldn't use Integral (Qld company on the Sunshine Coast) again.

PS:  Just a word of warning - don't expect Solar Panels to improve the value of your property.  We have been told by agents that they and buyers do not even look at adding their value (savings or otherwise) to the property price. 

Good Luck

[torsion]

This thread has so much bull**** in it, its not funny.
Ive worked in the Australian Energy Market for over 12 years, with a NSW Govt Electricity Network / Retail business for 6 years selling Energy Contracts and recently for Australia's largest Solar wholesaler.

Firstly Solar panels are rated as Tier 1, Tier 2 structures etc, the ratings are of course derived from a number of factors -  Ingrediant qualities, Energy data outputs etc, design parameters, manufacturing parameters, product quality, warranty's etc.
The biggest brand names of manufactured PANELS available in Australia are made in China, ie - BP Solar, Trina, Suntech these panels are rated as Australia Tier 1 panels... all made in China.
 
Sharp Solar is the only main stream panel available in Australia that is actually made in Japan - and you pay for that assurance and truely that is all it is......assurance.
The more reputable Chinese panels as mentioned above are rated higher in many aspects over Sharp Solar and you pay less for them.
Don't be mistaken though, most Chinese panels are rated low and are poooo. You get what you pay for with them.

INVERTERS
Truely their is only one that is the best in the world, german engineered, german made - recognised by the world as THE BEST IN THE WORLD - SMA Inverters.
Tell you'll a secret, BP Solar sell an inverter that has a 10 year warranty, the only problem is they buy it from SMA and re-badge it BP with an additional 5 year warranty. That is how good SMA inverters are.
I wouldn't waste my time with anything else realy, but hey you get what you pay for.

SOLAR REBATE SCHEMES, FEED IN TARIFF'S & REC's
Too time consuming for me to explain, its lengthy detailed and confusing.... JETCREW, youve got to be kiddin.

WHY ENERGY PRICES ARE ON THE RISE
One of the biggest factors for this is the REDICULOUSLY rich Solar Rebate Schemes.
I will use NSW as an example....
The NSW Govt that allowed such rot should be charged and sent to prison.
Your local Electricity Network provider (in NSW there is only 3, the old Integral Energy, Energy Australia and Country Energy, now known with new names) are covering those rich 60+c/kWh schemes.
The Network business's have driven up their relevant charge (it is this charging structure that is the direct reason why tariff's have increased and will continue to increase)
These Network business's are covering this scheme, they can't without hiking up their costs to cover the scheme. IPART have even agreed, approved it and will continue to approve rises for ever in a day because they have no choice.

SO..... If you don't have Solar and your neighbour does and your neighbour was smart enough to put on Solar when the Govt was paying you a rebate. You are simply paying for you neighbour to get FREE Electricity. Of course this is now all dead in NSW and so it should be. But the damage has been done, we all pay for the govt *uck up..

IN ADDITION ......Australias Population boom and the Network infastructure increases to cope with housing development (lines, sub stations etc).
The lack of tax payers money, re-invested by State Govt into a very OLD and Ageing failing Network infastructure is another contributing element. In other words your voted pollies have been stealing the funds that should have gone back into the Electricity Network infrastructure for maintenance and development.
The cost of coal and the generation of Electricity has increased...
You put all of this together and you get prices going very bad.

CARBON TAX & AUSTRALIAS MINING TAX
Now add these two things into the mix and Australia is well and truely *ucked when it comes to Energy costs. We are seriously in trouble. The end user will simply pay for all of this **** tooo.
 

[Fridge Magnet]

We have a 1.5kW system, paid $326 for electricity last year. We have also reduced our consumption by more than 40% since installation 3 years ago. As Jetcrew quite rightly states it gives an added awareness of your energy usage which in turn may save you more in the long run than the solar system itself. Ignore the naysayers, it's a good thing on so many levels.

Hope you find a good installer.

Sent using Tapatalk

[jetcrew]

This thread has so much bull**** in it, its not funny.
 

SOLAR REBATE SCHEMES, FEED IN TARIFF'S & REC's
Too time consuming for me to explain, its lengthy detailed and confusing.... JETCREW, youve got to be kiddin.

I thought the thread was a good one with people sharing thier opinions and experiences some good some bad and some undecided, key point was everyone was respectful of the others opinions.

As far as me KIDDING I don't know what you mean on that one   If I made some sort of statment that was wrong or not true I most prob said that I was not sure and that maybe someone better qualified than me could prob shed some light.or it was just an opinion on a non documented fact or one that is open to conjecture.

 I don't actually remember asking you to explain Recs and rebates in Qld, but once again if I have posted something incorrect I am more than happy to be corrected.

So torrision what system do you have or whats the reason for you not having one and  how is it working and what company did the install if you have one.

Jetcrew 
P.S - remind me not to talk religion or politics with you LOL

[db]

Our decision to put on an almost 5kw system was based on approximate calcs like this:

Current electricity costs approximately $1800 pa (average use is 17kwh / day)

System was sized to more than cover current use (over the course of a year, taking into account our location and panel orientation) and with the feed in tariffs to generate approx. $1000 / year credit.  So far so good, only been feeding in since December last year.

Gave us a payback (on current prices) of around 7 years.  This payback period reduces as electricity prices rise.  Economically it wasn't hard to justify for us, hardest part was liberating the cash up front. 

With regard to the wider economic arguments, I look at photovoltaic on roofs as distributed power generation - if you removed that capacity, we'd need to replace it with some other form of generation.  And building power generation, even if privately owned still has a cost to the country - prices / tax offsets etc. 

I agree with Jetcrew in that there needs to be much more emphasis on reducing demand - we're also trying to do that, as it has a cash benefit as well as environmental.

We went with a local installer, we found someone who lived and worked locally and had local recommendations from people we knew.  Both the two locals we got to quote spent quite some time on the roof of our house and looked carefully at what we wanted.  The larger (reputable) non local guy didn't get on the roof etc, and didn't inspire as much confidence.  Both the locals used equipment that is reputable.  I also picked my brothers brain - he's a sparky in Victoria that has been doing solar for about 10 years (his own business). 

[Campa]

We got our first quote today from Solahart.

2.5kw system 10 panels,  $10,282 - $3164 = $7121 fitted

[Wandering Tassie]

I have found this discussion very interesting and fully agree that everyone is entitled to their own view.
There appears to be 3 camps, for, not sure and against. Even though I have made my decision and they are being installed on Monday I am still in the"" not sure I have done the right thing"".
What has given me some confidence out of this discussion is that everyone who has had them installed is happy with the result. Taking to people locally is the same.

Trevor

[Flemo]

Don't be offended jet, mention the e word and there is always a has been drip under pressure sure to get their back up!!

[torsion]

Yeh sorry I did get off the topic.
Answer - one that has impecable reputation, been installing Solar long before the State Governments across Australia introduced a "Solar Rebate Scheme" (this weed's out the cash cows that start up business's to take advantage of polititian criminal schemes) and yeh lots are still installing.
INSTALLERS -
I would be looking for a installer that still operates a reputable licenced Electrican business, does not soley install Solar ONLY.
This gives surity if their is a problem with your Solar System the business is operational, insured and highly likely will still be in business for years to come.
BRAND NAME SYSTEMS -
The product of choice should be Tier 1 rated, the manufacturer of the product should have a long standing operational business in Australia for certainty of warrant claims, parts, longevity,etc.
I can name approx 5 Solar Manufacturing business's operating within Australia that would fit this mould.
Most Panels and Inverters are imported by Solar Shops direct, cause they get the product cheap and can on sell at higher margins. Remembering that Solar Shops go out of business and the manufacturer is in another country.... You get the drift. Lets face it these systems are tooo expensive to start with.

Also consider the Origin Energy, AGL, TRUenergy are good options for Solar Systems, they all buy quality systems and their business is not going anywhere. Installers are contractors though??

The power companies do not want everyone with 5KW on thier roof or they will be bill free and thats no good so they convinced Govt to curve the recs credits at an amount that they thought feasible whilst still protecting profits and 1.5KW is the lucky number.

Yeh you did mention REC's also known as Renewable Energy Certificates, My reference is relating to this - thats dribble mate.

I will be the first to put my hand up and say how I kick myself for not installing Solar when the NSW State Govt was paying people to install Solar at home, gauranteed money until 2016.
For my scenario, I personally don't see value in investing in Solar at todays Regulated domestic Electricity Tariff's. So I have no Solar system.
Family of four in a 3 - 4 bedroom home....to make any real impact to your power bills would need a 5kW system.
A good system of this size will be >18K, return on investment tooooooo long..
Hey if you want to put on 1.5kW system to feel good and give you a warm fuzzy fealing, great, but its a waste of money with little impact in your Electricity costs.

With regard to the wider economic arguments, I look at photovoltaic on roofs as distributed power generation - if you removed that capacity, we'd need to replace it with some other form of generation.  And building power generation, even if privately owned still has a cost to the country - prices / tax offsets etc. 

I agree with Jetcrew in that there needs to be much more emphasis on reducing demand - we're also trying to do that, as it has a cash benefit as well as environmental.

Yeh I don't realy agree with you db.
Most Solar sytems people instal don't even cover their own Electricity usage let alone offer Power Generation for the National Electricity Grid. Ontop of this for Solar to make any real impact in decreasing Demand on the National Electricity Market most of the Domestic population in Australia would need to have Solar operational on their roof tops. Which is never going to happen.

This is exactley the same thinking by the Govt when they saw Domestic Roof Top Solar as the answer to Electricity Demand. They intro'd a Rebate Scheme to entice people to put Solar on at home knowing the "Majority" needs to act to have any real effect. Well... here we are. Over 20% increase in the Domestic Electricity Tariff in 2010/2011 period, with more increases expected for the next 6 years, The Number 1 contributor to this..... The Solar Rebate Scheme.
I don't hear any positive news or data that Demand has decreased because of Roof Top Solar - Have You?

The biggest Demand hungry item iinstalled in houselholds is the Air Conditioning Unit. If you want to realy reduce demand on both the Network side and Electricity Generation, don't use your Aircon. Fat Chance Hey....

[kiwipete]

We have a 1.5kw system and a 40 Tube evacuated Hot Water...

There are Oils and there are Oils same as Solar panels...

A lot of the panels that are for sale are Chinese brands fine for occasional use with the CT but people with them on their roofs could find that in 5 years their 1.5w system is only worth .25kw   These are generally your cheaper systems...    Some of those Chinese Panels are truly hopeless others are OK but most will need replacing in 5-10 years time...

A good German Panel after 25 years will still be producing 95% from new - We in the ACT have a 20year contract at 55c/Kw produced so well worth the good panels but they are expensive...   gee there are a lot of Chinese panels here also....   but they are so cheap you could probably replace them 3 times in 20 years and still be cheaper than our German system....

I love turning on the Hot water these days as it is Free from the Sun....   

[Kit_e_kat9]

Going off the immediate topic in a fashion sort of but not really ....

When we have a black out ... those with panels on the roof ... are they still having the fridge or lights run OR are the in the dark as well?

Just curious.

Kit_e

[speewa158]

l have 20 panels on the roof , 4.5 K system . The cool thing is as my house is only lived on weekends as l work away the solar is at present about $1200+ in credit & counting . Not too shabby for the time its been in . Should have a cheque from the power provider soon  . Wont that be funny 

[Signature035]

Going off the immediate topic in a fashion sort of but not really ....

When we have a black out ... those with panels on the roof ... are they still having the fridge or lights run OR are the in the dark as well?

Just curious.

Kit_e

Hi Kit_e

No, if they have a conventional set up, they will be in the dark as well, as there is no battery bank.
I have thought seriously about a few panel on the roof, a couple of 100ah batteries and some LED lighting in the main living rooms in the house though.....   Although it would be cool to have idenpendant lighting, still need to cater for the fridge etc.

[Wandering Tassie]

Going off the immediate topic in a fashion sort of but not really ....

When we have a black out ... those with panels on the roof ... are they still having the fridge or lights run OR are the in the dark as well?

Just curious.

Kit_e

Kit_e, I think it depends on the system, my understanding is yes you fridge will still work. The system we are installing the power generated suppliers the home first, then if there is any excess it then puts this back into the grid.
Of course the fridge will only work if the blackout is during the day.

Trevor

[Garry H]

Of course the fridge will only work if the blackout is during the day.

Trevor

wrong, (an expert may correct me) my understanding is that the system is only connected (to the house and grid) if there is a live connection to the grid
ie: if there is a power black out I will have no electricity for anything available in the house (unless I have gone the extra and put in batteries etc) seems like a weird setup (even with 4.3 kw of panels on the roof, but how would the technicions ever work on the grid (transformers, sub stations etc etc) if they couldn't garuntee the lines were dead (ie nobody feeding into the grid)
cheers
Garry

[jetcrew]

My understanding is and I believe it has not changed, the rebate only applies to grid tie systems , so if you have installed a solar system under the govt scheme, then you house is not actually solar powered.

Although the generated power is used by the house first it does so through the grid. I do not have enough knowledge or experience.to  describe or make statments how the grid tie inverter actually archives this but hopefully someone on here will.

I am a simple panels and batteries man, the grid tie stuff is a whole lot more advanced and complexed and they play with the bigs boys power, that stuff scares me

So nothing will work without the mains power on.

If you want something for power outages I would recommend a small gen set. And have even heard of this being tax deductible ( accountants please confirm)and you can take it camping.


Jet

If you really want to be sure go trip the safety switch and see if the fridge works. I believe that as soon as the solar array is connected to batts it no longer qualifies for the rebates.

[pootrol]

im a sparky and have no interest in this field until it cleans up a bit. my mates are sparkies and have been doing it with other companies and now they work for them selves they too dont want to be part of it. you need to do your home work thats for sure. one of my customers is a fussy old fella and after i said no he called some one thats done the rest of his family. he found out the owner was previosly part of the insulation batt scheme, used to do bathrooms and was shut down or something and technically shouldnt be trading anymore. when he asked about the elec contractor he gave an address which he found out was actually his home address. get a heap of fellas in to quote. go for more of the small contractor as hopefully the bloke doing the quoting is the one doing the installing. not this big franchise crap where you ring a melb company then they send out a suby to smash it in quike cos dollars is the only care for them. the panels have alot of loss and arnt 100% effective. the inverter only has a % rating of performance upto a certain temp then gets worse. i think the temp is 25 degrees. my mate tells me all this crap i just dont care. the the big factor is what do you save, what do you get back and how long can you go before panels need replacing or an inverter. the current panels have alot of loss and average around 70%eff. i heard rumours that there is a new breed that are near 100% but they dont want to release them yet due to cost. but csiro i think came out saying we can make the new ones cheaper than the exisiting.   i hear alot of good stories thou mainly from retirees saying its wiped out there bill. they average around $180 per bill quarter anyways. mine is more around $700 cos of young family and for the cost of putting it in and possible future maintanence the saving of $100 per quarter doesnt excite me. good luck with it all. like i said go for the fella that both quotes and installs.

[UTE 701]

The biggest brand names of manufactured PANELS available in Australia are made in China, ie - BP Solar, Trina, Suntech these panels are rated as Australia Tier 1 panels... all made in China.
 
INVERTERS
Truely their is only one that is the best in the world, german engineered, german made - recognised by the world as THE BEST IN THE WORLD - SMA Inverters.
Tell you'll a secret, BP Solar sell an inverter that has a 10 year warranty, the only problem is they buy it from SMA and re-badge it BP with an additional 5 year warranty. That is how good SMA inverters are.

What about the Bosch panels made in Germany ?

And as for SMA inverters , do you mean the Sunny Boy ones ? I thought they were a Denmark product ?

And you can get them with a 20 year warranty ....

[jdove]

I'm up on the sunshine coast (although not very sunny yesterday with 385mm of rain in in 4hrs) and I used Auzion here on the coast. 1.5 kw system local Aussie inverter. My power bill has gone from $400 to my bill last week $ 126 and we are not that energy efficient at home and we do crank up the A/C when it's hot. Very good company who did a very good job.
I'm happy.