Chainsaw Safety - Should the use of PPE be legislated?

[Snow]

It seems there are some that there are a few camps here when it comes to chain saw apparel. Rather than hijack the odd thread to air their opinions I thought i would give you lot a sand pit to wrestle in.

So my question is; Should there be a legislated minimum level of PPE required to use a saw??

Play nice and respect each others opinion.

[DANBRI]

It is legislated.

It's not spelt out simply, but risk needs to be managed - PCBU would be easily prosecuted, especially in NSW (incident or not). I can detail more if need be!

[Estelle]

Gee Mr. Snow,

I've only known PPE to be Personal Performance Evaluation.

Hmmm, maybe not so different.

Chain saws. Lovely devices for modifying or removing things they shouldn't.

Should it be up to the individuals immediate family since they are the ones that will have to go through the trauma? The one weilding the saw will just suffer the physical pain unless they involve someone else.

[Jon]

Short answer is No.
Why?
Darwin will help the survivors.
Impossible to police for a start,
Cant change some peoples attitudes,
D**khead factor.

Perhaps a more appropriate question is
"Should common sense be a compulsory school subject?"

Back to the PPE-
Anyone who has industrial deafness or who has been to Casualty to get some sawdust out of their eye will use PPE.
I know I do.

Dan, can you elaborate? Does this extend further than the first 2 pages of the manual?

[austastar]

Hi,
  if you hold a ticket and don't use PPE you can lose the ticket or void any insurance you hold. (have just done the trim and crosscut ticket course)

My opinion is that it is too tricky to totally legislate, where do you draw the line where electric chainsaws come in?

Our 4wd club rules require the operator of a saw to be ticketed, to be ticketed you must wear PPE or risk possible legal consequences.

So in a nutshell; not for private use.

cheers

[FZJ]

PPE?
 I use DPT (double plugger thongs) MOS (me old sunnies) and KEFA  ( Keep every F$%^er away)  

[D4D]

I'm not fussed what the weekend cutters do but as I have an operators ticket I use PPE every time I operate a saw. If other people want to be heroes then that's their prerogative.

Incidentally, I have tinnitus from working in rock and roll when I was younger. Back then I said she’ll be right and didn’t wear ear muffs. I am a little wiser now.

[DANBRI]

Nothing can be done for private use, there is no government body to regulate (this can't change, our government does not have a process for this).

Workcover, Worksafe (the regulator) etc: WHS Act 2011 and the WHS Regulation 2012 stipulate that risk needs to be managed (to put it super simply!). An employer ( a PCBU - Persons Conducting a Business or Undertaking) needs to provide a safe workplace, supervision and training / instruction. These three points are the most commonly, and easily prosecuted against.

There's a few changes due in Jan 1st 2012, when the harmonisation legislation is implemented. Currently each state and territory has similar but different pieces of legislation. NSW is currently the OHS Act 2000 and the OHS Reg 2001 (though to fast track some of the changes a few sections have been 'bridged', due diligence for officers for example).

So to put it very simply; if an employer failed to provide PPE for an employee using a chainsaw the employer could very easily be prosecuted (come Jan 1 there doesn'teven need to be an incident) - what is reasonably practicable? Is it reasonable to expect an employer to provide chaps, safety glasses gloves and steel caps for an employee tasked with using a chainsaw? Is it practical for an employer to provide this and 'wear the costs associated = Yes.

There's a few ways to get to the result, a risk assessment (which is required for any task deemed 'hazardous' and I would certainly classify chainsaw use as hazardous) would identify the risk, appropriate controls would be the use of PPE to minimise the risk of harm, along with training etc.

I could go on forever, I love this stuff.  

[gronk]

PPE?
 I use DPT (double plugger thongs) MOS (me old sunnies) and KEFA  ( Keep every F$%^er away)  

Nice one......and anyone not using double pluggers are a bloody idiot.  !!!!!!!

PPE.......for all the " responsible " ones....do you use ear muffs....safety glasses....hard hat....steel capped safety boots....chaps....leather gloves....??...every time you use the saw.

If not, you can't really complain about the " irresponsible " ones who use some or none of the above ...

[baldheadedgit]

Common sense.............it's not that hard is it,.??

[DANBRI]

I can also add, that now days Product Stewardship is a relatively big deal for OEMs (Original Equipment Manufacturers). So think about Husqvarna and Stihl for a moment. They cannot sell their equipment without particular warnings and safety features, even the shop won't let you have it without a demonstration. These points are designed to educate the user.

This is Product Stewardship, an OEM is held accountable to ensure they provide a safe piece of equipment and instruction / training.

Allthought it's not clear and simple as some folk may like it, it is very much legislated.

[DANBRI]

Common sense.............it's not that hard is it,.??

Yes, I make a good living out of it so shhh, don't tell anyone to think before they act! 

[gronk]

Dan, you know where I work......and I was only talking about weekend warriors !!!

As an employee or employer, then things change drastically.....as they should...

I'm surprised ( if you applied the same sort of OH&S  As we have)  that employers let their staff use a chainsaw at all. ??

[Estelle]

Product Stewardship makes sense, but I assume it falls down when someone borrows the equipment (lender open to prosecution?). 2nd hand?

[DANBRI]

Just to confirm my own curiosity, there is a Code of Practice in QLD for chainsaw operations. Presently this is admissible in court so you'd struggle to demonstrate why it was safe to ignore this Code. Come Jan 1st Codes of Practice are law in all states and territories.

There's also a standard AS/NZS 4453.3:1997 Protective clothing for users of hand held chainsaws. Part3: Protective legwear.

[DANBRI]

Product Stewardship makes sense, but I assume it falls down when someone borrows the equipment (lender open to prosecution?). 2nd hand?

They could be, it would be under common law and the owners duty of care (I'm not coheres with common law so I may be talking out of school here). Very American, it would be a precedence case in Australia (super crafty lawyers!).

Dan, you know where I work......and I was only talking about weekend warriors !!!

As an employee or employer, then things change drastically.....as they should...

I'm surprised ( if you applied the same sort of OH&S  As we have)  that employers let their staff use a chainsaw at all. ??

I'm amazed they let you loose! 

[gronk]

Only on weekend release.  !!!!

[Flemo]

I can also add, that now days Product Stewardship is a relatively big deal for OEMs (Original Equipment Manufacturers). So think about Husqvarna and Stihl for a moment. They cannot sell their equipment without particular warnings and safety features, even the shop won't let you have it without a demonstration. These points are designed to educate the user.

This is Product Stewardship, an OEM is held accountable to ensure they provide a safe piece of equipment and instruction / training.

Allthought it's not clear and simple as some folk may like it, it is very much legislated.

I sat for months turning simple safe work method statements into 20 page novels because the ofsc got on this bandwagon. Also scared away good subbies because of our company requirements in regards to this." Duty of care" is legislated but Shit you have to do some paperwork to satisfy these 3 words!

[davo69 and the Nurse]

More emphasis needs to made on wearing PPE even for the backyard boys an grandpas. I have nursed far too many chain saw, circular saw, concrete saw, drill accident victims over the last 6 years. And I have injuries to every body part (even the pink bits) because of these pieces of machinery being used inappropriately and without adequate protection.

the Nurse

[DANBRI]

Many large organisations that have big uni-grad type safety functional training programs tend to create a rod for their own back by trying to better themselves and 'pioneer' safety, with straight out of school subject matter experts.

People with experience in the profession, I class experience as people who have worked outside the profession, are few and far between. There's plenty of safety cops out there - also known as cowboys (they seem to know everything and are often very ineffective and most folk seem to hate them!).

Practical interpretation of the Act is where it's easy to get caught up, if it doesn't achieve anything (some paper work doesn't achieve anything, or it loses it's designed effect quickly) it shouldn't be implemented.

I'd be pretty nervous if I was an officer of a corporation, you can get directors liability insurance which will assist in the event of a prosecution; but it won't stop you going to gaol.

Everyone hates it 'this extra safety crap is bullShit' I hear it every day, on every site, in every industry. People blame the employer, or the safety bloke or the manager etc. The law is the law, if you need someone to blame - blame morons who go to work affected by drugs or alcohol (etc.). Seriously freaking ridiculous the amount of people that are affected but substances whilst at work.

[duggie]

[Gunna Do]

Should there be a legislated minimum level of PPE required to use a saw??

No, and geez I hope it never happens, although the chances of getting caught when the timber cutting normally gets done in the middle of the bush would be slim.

[SteveandViv]

It seems there are some that there are a few camps here when it comes to chain saw apparel. Rather than hijack the odd thread to air their opinions I thought i would give you lot a sand pit to wrestle in.

So my question is; Should there be a legislated minimum level of PPE required to use a saw??

Play nice and respect each others opinion.

So I have read the thread so I'll ask where. In the bush or for work purposes or at home.

[Laith]

Yeah it would likely be safer for joe average to use ppe. It would no doubt be safer if Jo Average didn't use a chainsaw at all. Where do we draw the line.

I'll draw my line wherever I want. I dont think that makes me a "hero". You got a different line to me, that's great for you.

If your job requires you to use a piece of machinery and are told to use a certain set of PPE then you do what what your paid to do.

[JethroT]

More emphasis needs to made on wearing PPE even for the backyard boys an grandpas. I have nursed far too many chain saw, circular saw, concrete saw, drill accident victims over the last 6 years. And I have injuries to every body part (even the pink bits) because of these pieces of machinery being used inappropriately and without adequate protection.

the Nurse

Is there some sort of PPE that provides adequate protection for the PP then.