Upgrade the Surf to.........what?

[WilSurf]

After our last trip to SA (reminder to myself: upload report and pictures) we would like to upgrade to Surf.
Reason for this:
- car is 17 years old
- car lacks power (only 93Kw/287Nm when new)
- kids are getting bigger and back seats are not that big

What we need:
- automatic as I have only one left usable arm

What we want:
- diesel for longer range
- 7 seater for taking kids friends

We have short listed two cars:
- Nissan Patrol 3.0
- Toyota Landcruiser 4.2TD

The price difference between the two is huge and although I like the HDJ100 I can't affort to spend that much money at the moment.
Knowing the famous Nissan - Toyota discussion, I would like to have an honest opinion from drivers of both cars, towing a camper trailer around.
The car won't be used as a daily car as we have a little Fiesta (no, please don't see a Holden is better :-) ) for the school runs.
Towing the CT will be through all terrains, including beach runs, dirt roads, etc.

[ddr]

You cant seriously compare those 2 cars.

One is a very well built powerful car that would last years & the other is a very short term option.

From a Patrol owner, id take the Cruiser any second of any day of any week in the choice of those 2.

The money difference will be minimal if you need to change an engine in the patrol.



I had the same decision when I bought my Patrol, except I excluded the 3lt instantly.  It was between the Cruiser & the 4.2 Patrol.  I chose the Patrol as I wanted Live axle front end.  i now regret that choice & wish Id gone the other way.

[DannyG]

Whats your budget and what year model 3ltr Patrol are you considering.

I am a Patrol man through and through but given the choice id go with the cruiser 4.2 rather than and older 3ltr Patrol.

Go to patrol4x4.com and search 3ltr patrols before making your mind up. Im not meaning to offend any 3ltr Patrol owners but it is well documented some of them had issues in the earlier days.

[noel_w]

- automatic as I have only one left usable arm

Me too, don't know what I'd do with two left arms.

Also as a 'trol driver, albeit an older one, I'd be picking the cruser too. My brother has one & is very happy with it.

[DannyG]

ddr just pipped me at the post

[Redback]

No contest, 4.2TD Cruiser!!!

Baz.

[WilSurf]

Me too, don't know what I'd do with two left arms.

Haha, you are right.
I can't use my right arm, if that makes it easier for you. :-)

I am looking at the newer models, after the "bang" engine so from 2003.
Budget at the moment is low, but hopefully early next year will have some more.
What I really would like is the drive train of the Patrol and the V8 diesel from Toyota.

[ddr]

I am looking at the newer models, after the "bang" engine so from 2003.

Be careful assuming things have been "Fixed" after a certain date.

[dno]

There have been a few TD4.2 auto GQs hit the market lately. Add a turbo and what more could you ask for except maybe a brand new one.

[Bird]

I'd suggest a Pajero

The Paj I test drove last week Shits on the patrol for comfort (not that its hard to), and went quite well.
The rear rear row seats disappear into the floor when not in use.

Honestly nobody would compare a gre.... I mean a 3.0 GU to a Cruiser would they?

[Matto]

I'd suggest a Pajero

Me too. My brother has just picked up a 2 yr old Paj, and it's a beautiful thing to drive. They had it up here a couple of weeks back and I was lucky enough to take it for a spin a couple of times. Beautiful to drive, 7 seats, nice.

Obviously not in the same class offroad as the other two (although, speak to SteveAndViv about that - hasn't really ever stopped them from going anywhere), but on the same hand, I think it would get you most places.

If it's between the 3L GU and an 80-series TD, you'll end up with a MUCH later model GU for the same money, vs a 4.2L 'cruiser. Not to say the older car is a bad thing (our neighbours have a 4.2TD 80-series that just won't die), but if one of the reasons you're trading up from the Surf is that you want something newer...

Good luck!
Matto

[Bird]

Obviously not in the same class offroad as the other two (although, speak to SteveAndViv about that - hasn't really ever stopped them from going anywhere), but on the same hand, I think it would get you most places.

Spend some sheckles on it and it will go places... just ask Frank

[Burnsy]

My old man has a TD 100 series and if I had a spare $55000 to buy and accesorise one I would grab one in a heartbeat.  The auto is smooth and it oozes power.  He uses it to tow a 20 foot van and gets impressice conspumtion out of it doing so.

We are at the same crossroads at the moment with our 80 regarding age but have decided to keep it and have thrown a heap of dollars at it this year to get everything up to scratch.  The big question will come when the engine gives up the ghost as we would not spend the money on rebuilding the 4500 petrol engine and the option of redonking with a HDTFE or buying a 100 would need to be considered.

[WilSurf]

There is a 100 deries fully decked for sale.
"Only" $45,000

Matto, the 80-series is too old, so it is between the GU and the 100-series.

[Bird]

... so it is between the GU and the 100-series.

It would be 100 series out of the 2.

any reason you have discounted the Paj?

[MDS69]

The Paj has been mentioned but what about a 120 series Prado.

[WilSurf]

Don't like the Pajero and can't find the back door of the Prado very handy with a camper trailer.

[Burnsy]

End of the day you can't really compare the 4.2 10o series with the 3.0 Patrol, with regard to engines.  If you were comparing the two 6 cylinder diesels then maybe.

I think you answered you own question in the first post, my reading is that you want the 100series and know it to be a better car but can't afford it.  Personally I would sell the daily driver and the surf and just get the cruiser.  What you save on rego, maintenance and insurance will help offset the cost of running the 100TD daily and you will have a big smile on your face every day you drive to school or the shops.

[WilSurf]

The Fiesta is on a novated lease so tax deductable.
And no way I can tell my wife to sell her Fiesta. :-)

I just know no.  :'(
You are right, I want the Cruiser but can't affort it.
Maybe keep the Surf, make it more reliable for now and see what happens in the future.
It is booked in this Friday for an oil leak check/repair. Hopefully it is the rocker cover gasket.
At the same time the front locker goes in and the fuel tank supports/bolts will be checked.

[dazzler]

V8 GXL auto cruiser on sequential gas.

800k range on petrol and another 350 or so on gas.

[cruza driver]

Spend some sheckles on it and it will go places... just ask Frank

That is one tough Paj I remember speaking to him near Razorback hut up Mt Stirling with a broken control arm he was limping it home 

[WilSurf]

V8 GXL auto cruiser on sequential gas.

800k range on petrol and another 350 or so on gas.

Is that towing offroad included?

[dazzler]

Is that towing offroad included?

Well it would depend what 'off road' you mean.  Low range would eat the fuel.

Though seriously, why not the paj or prado.

Sure the back door may be a pain but if you have an 1800mm drawbar on the CT you should be rightish.

We have the earlier diesel prado 120 auto.  It gets 12.5lphk around town and towing the CT, wait for it, uses .6 of a litre more per hundred k's.  (The DiD paj is even better).

30k should get a good one.  1400k range, 180lt fuel capacity, Rigid Rear Axle so it doesnt wear the tyres like paj.

Theres a lot to like for the $$. 

[Captain]

Hi Wil,

While I have a 200 TTD now, my previous vehicle was a 3.0TD GU and before that, an 80 series 1HZ.

If I had to choose between the GU and a 1HZ powered 80, there is no way it would be the 80 if towing a camper trailer. Many have knocked the 3.0TD for its engine reputation issues but at the end of the day, I have known personally some 20 odd 3.0TD owners (mostly from 4WD club) and not one has had a piston holing engine issue - certainly there have been some issues amongst them, but none had the "grenade" problem. Yes, I know many others have, but what is the actual percentage that do? Point being, while the 3.0TD has had more than its fair share of problems, so do all other makes too.

But the 3.0TD is so tainted now that most wouldn't buy one. The 100 series 4.2TD is great, alog with its price tag, so realitically its out of the question. But have you considered a 4.8 5sp GU? Yes, it drinks fuel like no tomorrow (well, only about 25% worse in reality) but it is arguably THE most reliable motor around - including any Toyota motor you may want to compare it to. The 5sp auto is a pearler and being a GU, there is no shortage of aftermarket goodies for it.

Anyway, if I was in your positon, I would be looking at just how many kms I do and what the extra $/year it would cost to own a 4.8 GU. There is no lack of power and it has the reliability and off-road ability.

Well. thats my 2 cents worth 

Cheers

[WilSurf]

Thanks all so far.
The Prado 120, especially the KZJ120R, isn't an upgrade as it has the same engine is the Surf now with the same figures.
Only the KDJ120R is much better, but then the price tag again being a Toyota.

A mate of mine has the 4.8GU and loves it. Lots of power and easy t drive, not as truck like as the 3.0GU.
However he doesn't go for long extended trips so a servo is always nearby.
I was looking at the V8 Cruiser, but the same thing: fuel goes up very steeply when towing off the bitumen.
I know for the milage we will be doing and the price difference we could buy lots of petrol.
But, the point is: filling up every 600-800kms is not always possible all the times. I want the range.