4WDing in Australia is under threat once again!

[Bird]

I'm not paying to have this engineered.

If it was easier and cheaper to get done (like it was 5yrs ago when I got the 6+inch and 35s done on the GQ -$500 not $2000), I reckon 90% of more people would go through it.

[Matto]

Ya dont need 37" to drive to work or pick the kids up from school.

Maybe not, but then who am I to tell you that you shouldn't have 37" tyres if it's done right? Just because I wouldn't have them on mine doesn't mean you shouldn't have them on yours. This person might be one of those "can't afford two sets of tyres" people. My daily driver has a set of KM2's on it - no need for them onroad either - maybe we should be banning muddies as well?

There are all sorts of things that are scary on the road: 18 year olds in skylines and Supras' , Old (I mean REALLY old) people driving any car, so close to the steering wheel because it lets them see further, at 30-40 kph under the speed limit. MLC's (Mid-Life Crisis) with their SS comodores and FPV Falcons who think their 20 years driving experience makes them  Mark Webber or Craig Lowndes.

You forgot motorcycles. While we're bashing people who choose different things to ourselves, you CAN'T leave out morotcyclists. They're all crazy, they all have a death wish, and they all WILL die from it (and probably kill your kids in the process).

You can't legislate against stupidity, nor should you try.

My $0.02
Matto
Who's first car was a 4L Valiant Charger when I was 17.
Who had an import Nissan Silvia when he wasn't much older.
Who's first motorcycle was a 998cc V-twin.
Who's current motorcycle is over a litre in capacity.
Who drives a lifted 4wd with muddies to work every morning.
Who has, on occasion, exceeded the speed limit.
Who, by all accounts, should be well and truly dead, but seems to still be waking up each morning.

[Matto]

If it was easier and cheaper to get done (like it was 5yrs ago when I got the 6+inch and 35s done on the GQ -$500 not $2000), I reckon 90% of more people would go through it.

You know, I don't even have a problem with the price, so long as it's not ridiculous, and it's there as an option. What gets me is that under these proposed laws, and in QLD WRT tyre sizes, there's NO option. Any tyre over 15mm larger than standard is dangerous, and is illegal, and that's that.

If there's an option to get modifications made safe and legal (and not every modification will be able to), then it becomes a choice between paying the money and doing it properly, or winging it as a backyard job. In that space, I'm all for the cops nailing people who have chosen to DIY something up and not get it certified. It becomes less about someone telling you what you shoudl or shouldn't do, and more about whether you've chosen the correct path or not.

I'm out!
Matto

[Laith]

I think the majority of people would agree that regulations are ok just not restrictions.

DeLuxHilux, why do you need to slander people with a different interest to you. So when you see someone with big tires and lift (may be engineered, you don't know) you feel the need to imply that your penis must be bigger than theirs.? I bet they think nothing of you when they see you in your idea of a cool rig.

You say that it's "being responsible" if the rig is engineered so it would sound like your problem is in fact with un engineered mods rather than just the mods. This is more of a policing issue rather than legislation issue.

[drrnadms]

Well all i can say in this matter is i really don't have a problem with rules, we live by rules every day in our lives and yes some rules are silly but that's how it is. I see that there are many comments re 17-18 year olds in this forum but they have been banned from driving high performance vehicles, so why do we need 4WD that are heavily modified with high lifts on the road?

We don't they don't handle the way they did when they were built. The modern vehicle is so much more advanced these days to travel place that the older 4WD struggle to reach.

I've been to many a fatal traffic crash with cars and 4WD and to be honest the modern car is a lot more safer than 4WD's. There have been many a fool that i have charged with there manner of driving in modified 4WD, as well as cars. I find it amazing that people are against the proposed legislation, I admit I haven't seen it or read about it, however, when or if they bring it in or publish it for comment then we will all have a proper understanding of the governments decisions process.

To modify your 4WD I don't have a problem with, but to have heavily modified 4WD with high lifts on the road is absolutely ridiculous and as far as I'm concern, they shouldn't be on our roads. I'm also of the same opinion for the passengers cars that are modified also.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Darren

[Bird]

God theres some uneducated rubbish and a hell of a lot of assumptions in this thread, but that happens everytime this subject shows its head!!

[Laith]

God theres some uneducated rubbish and a hell of a lot of assumptions in this thread, but that happens everytime this subject shows its head!!

I have found that I have not agree'd with you often lately Lost but let me say we are on the same page with this one.

Does everyone know that a graded dirt road isn't really a 4wd track?



Give it time and we will be told what colored clothes to wear.

[Redback]

I have found that I have not agree'd with you often lately Lost but let me say we are on the same page with this one.

Does everyone know that a graded dirt road isn't really a 4wd track?



Give it time and we will be told what colored clothes to wear.

But we are, remember Hi-Vis

Baz.

[Laith]

Haha. True mate.

[rescue1]

From what I have read it seems that you will be able to drive a more modified 4WD if you are a member of a club. Now there is one 4WD club to the west of me that has members who have 6inch lifts 35s etc and only go driving when the tracks are wet and muddy. These are the idiots we need to be rid of but under the latest proposals they will still be there.....

[Red Dog 4x4]

I work in the 4x4 industry ( 4x4 Suspension for those of you who don't know ) I see first hand what type of people who are buying the big lift kits, It is the younger P-platers who come in and ask whats the bigest lift i can put in my 4x4 now the first thing i tell them is are you a p-plater 99% of the time yes thay are, the next thing is whats the cheapest price. When you start to list things that thay will need to do to the bigger lifts you get meet with, " Na my mate told me you don't need that stuff, I just want springs and shocks". So that's what you have to deal with.

If thay made the engineering side of things cheaper I do think more pepole would get it done my self for one.

Now don't get me wrong, I have 7" springs in my GQ patrol but it would be lucky to be a 5" lift, and the height it is at I would not call it HUGE it is no bigger than a GU with a 3" lift, but I have spent a great deal of money on getting the vehicle to drive like it should, and for the record i have two sets of tyres.

Ryan

[camdyson]

Always feels like we're in America when the wheel/lift conversations start. Why we tolerate this seppo rubbish I'll never know!

My 50mm lift and 265/70/406.4 tyres suit me fine, but each to his own IMO.

Just my 2p 

Cranky Cam

[Laith]

Always feels like we're in America when the wheel/lift conversations start. Why we tolerate this seppo rubbish I'll never know!

My 50mm lift and 265/70/406.4 tyres suit me fine, but each to his own IMO.

Just my 2p 

Cranky Cam

For everyone that shares your opinion there is 10 people that think "why do you need to lift your already high 4wd and change the tires". From their point of view what you are doing is making your vehicle handle different to what it was intended too. Your ripping up the dirt roads and the suberu's are finding it harder to get around.

I don't have a wildy modified 4wd. Quite mild by any standards but this issue is all about choice. Stop taking my ability to make my own decisions away from me.

[welchygq]

+1.

My take on it is:
Let's have a proper, nation-wide legislation for what you can do to your own car, as an umbrella/catch-all rule. IE, 50mm suspension lift, and +50mm tyre size increase. You can do that, and not need to get certified.

HOWEVER, this needs to be coupled with a proper engineering scheme for people who fall outside of these rules. IE, if you want to run 35" tyres, that's fine, but you'll need to get engineered, inspected and certified. There's no reason why a car with 35" tyres can't be perfectly safe if it's been built right, brake upgrades, gearing, etc. By having a certification scheme you allow people the freedom of choice, but you allow them to do it safely within a framework that ensures they're not endangering the general public.

At the moment in QLD we have the first (just the lift bit, +15mm on tyre size increase), but not the second. There is NO provision for making a car with bigger tyres legal. So has it stopped people fitting big tyres? Of course not! All it's done is make those people into criminals, and void their insurance.

Rather than restrict people and tell them what they should or shouldn't do, we should be going back to the intention behind all of this - which is to ensure that vehicles on the road behave in a safe and predictable manner so that everyone can share the road. HOW we achieve that, well, there's a lot of ways to get there...

Thanks!
Matto

Well there is my rational argument!!

[DeLuxHiLux]

 My issue with with the this is not the person who does the right thing and does this sort of stuff properly. The ones who think it is cool to run massive lifts and tyres and what ever other mods "because it looks cool' and cut up our tracks, and besmirch the image and good reputations of the rest of us, the 4x4 driving public, because they are the most obvious target for the 4x4 haters out there. I dint have an issue with big lifts and tyres...........just as long as it's done properly.

Similarly, if you want to run a 500hp Twin turbo Mazda RX-3 or a 350hp Suzuki- Go find a track and race it there, get the f*ck of the streets, where me and my family drive -Sure you're  less likely to see a 4x4 doing burnouts at Macca's on a Saturday night, but is the Patrol on Steroids less safe after these modifications which  significantly vary from the Manufacturers intent and design? We wont know unless someone looks at it and makes sure what's been done doesn't compromise the vehicles safety and design! If you want to heavily modify your vehicle, then go and drive it on a closed Road, or make sure it is safe (ie Laws to ensure it is!)

Yes, this is a Policing issue. If you can get a set of rules that allow people to do these mods, ensure that they comply with a set of standards then ensure that at least the vehicle (if not the operator) are safe, then the only matter left is the manner in which the operator drives said vehicle (whatever type it is!!) In Vic where a Roadworthy certificate is only required when a vehicle is bought/sold, there is nothing stopping you buying a $3000 Patrol and elevating it to lofty heights but not having to get any sort of safety check done on it unless you bring yourself to the attention of Mr Fuzz.

 i think some legislation is appropriate: this legislation seems to be over the top though . it needs to be National, and it needs to be at a point that allows people to make some sensible mods without expensive engineers certificates, and more extensive mods should require certification to ensure that the rest of the road using public are safe from at least the vehicle, if not always the operator.

And Lost, I drive a mildly (40mm) lifted 4x4 with muddies to work, it just isn't 6 inches and 37" respectively. My issue is with the back yard, half baked, poorly thought out job. . There are implications to rocking down to the local tyre joint saying " whack a set of 37's on that for me" and driving away too without a thought for the strees placed on the vehicle and considerabel changes to the handeling charcteristics and braking forces required.  

Oh, and while we're bagging people, you forgot Volvo drivers as well...... No list would be complete without Volvo Drivers......

Matto - Hear Hear - Exactly

ryan - this is the type of person i'm talking about. "just make it as big as you can - i dont give a rat's a$$ that it wont turn or stop, i just want it BIGGER"
 

You're right, we cant legislate against Stupid. imagine the jail cells we'd need!!!

[Bird]

Similarly, if you want to run a 500hp Twin turbo Mazda RX-3 or a 350hp Suzuki- Go find a track and race it there, get the f*ck of the streets, where me and my family drive

So lets ban hotrods and streetmachines too. I think I'd rather 100% of the them on the streets, to the P Plate girls in their Micra's eating bowls of cereal, and putting on their makeup while on the phone sitting on 80 in a 100 zone on the freeway.

While at it, I want to ban prams.. they are a nightmare around shopping centers....Cause I dont like them.
I also want to ban utes cause I dont like them. Specially ones that are not used by Tradesmen which they are designed for, not some teen status symbol...
Lets ban P Platers... Cause I dont like them.

[DannyG]

2" lift and 33's on my GU and I have a small willy

Ok I contribute nothing to this thread............

[Redback]

2" lift and 33's on my GU and I have a small willy

Ok I contribute nothing to this thread............

Don't sell yourself short, I think you did, you lightened the mood

45mm lift and 32s, even smaller willy, well 31.8" to be excact

Baz.

[welchygq]

Guys,

I run two cars - one midley lifted Gu and a pretty heavily modified GQ.

The Gu would still be illegal under these laws as it runs a 70mm lift and 33" tyres.

So my suspension would not pass as it is more than 2 " - wasnt the old law a % based measurement?

That is ofcourse unless i join a 4wd club - isnt that unionism?

Now i am a member of a 4wd club so its not a massive issue - the issue i have is forcing me to pay an anual membership fee for something i may not want.  By all means make me get a different licence or attemd training - always someone else out there that knows more than you do.

Now for the other car.  Its a 6" lifted (4" springs, 2" body) and runs 37" tyres.  This car has been built for a purpose and is heavily maintained ( prob too much if you ask the other half) and has has a butt load of money spent on it to get it right.  And yes this includes some engineering approval where i could get it (body lift, fuel tank mods etc).

And yes i can here some of you saying - "thats a comp car, take it off the road and dont drive it on the road"

That is also a fair comment and is why i have a car trailer and tow the ute 99% of places. - I'm not going to pretend i'm a saint and wont nip around the corner, litterally, to fill it up with fuel.

What you may not realise is that comp cars need to be road registered, in 99% of cases, to race.
This appearently has something to do with your CTP insurance that you must have.

so i agree with the previous comment that you can have a rule to a point where you do not need engineering.  But dont take away the option to go further if you specifically design a vehical for a certian task.

I also agree that if the cost of doing so wasnt so high more people would go down the track of getting it checked out.  In my experience, dont shoot me here, modified cars are better looked after than the beat up commodore that your neighbour does just enough to, to keep it on the road.

And my last point, i know it has been a long haul up to this point   , you cant legislate for the D*CkHead factor.  Otherwise we will soon become the ultimate "nanny state" that everyone fears.

We need to clamp down on drivers, not the cars they drive.

Which is exactly why they banned "P" plate drivers from having high powered cars - they didnt ban high powered cars did they?

I would like to hold on to the slim amount of choice i have left.

LET THE WAR OF REPLIES BEGIN!!!!  

Welchy

[Matto]

Don't sell yourself short, I think you did, you lightened the mood

45mm lift and 32s, even smaller willy, well 31.8" to be excact

Baz.

You hoons and your big tyres. (Mine aren't even 31"...)

Also Baz, I wouldn't class a 31.8" willy as exactly "small", either. I'm not standing next to you in the showers.  

OK - Now I'm REALLY out!
Matto

PS - Welchy - you make good points. Exactly how I feel on the matter.

[dazzler]

Now come on.  Three pages and not a single 'our fathers fought for our right....' blah blah blah

Very disappointing!

    

[dazzler]

Make that four pages......

[Jon]

'our fathers fought for our right....' blah blah blah
 

[bimborocks]

How about they just enforce the laws they already have.  Like someone else mentioned on here QLD probably have some of the tighest laws regarding mods but have a look at the 4wd forums and see many of the trucks those guys are running.  It wont make a difference unless they actually enforce the laws.
If I can build a car properly and demonstrate through engineering etc that my car is safe then why shouldn't I be able to run whatever tyre size or lift or power output that I want. If I have built a car on the cheap, dropped it on its guts or jacked it sky high and couldn't be bothered to get certification then I should be pulled over, fined and the car taken off the road.

BTW I drive a 90 Hilux 4x4 with 2 inch lift and 31inch tyres.  Even on my car without certification I believe 30.5inch tyres are the biggest you can run.

Cheers
James

[dazzler]

'our fathers fought for our right....' blah blah blah
 

Thanks. Ol' Gil's gunna be sleepin tonight!