Author Topic: The argument regarding fuel prices - an interesting read  (Read 8187 times)

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Offline albyback1

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The argument regarding fuel prices - an interesting read
« on: July 11, 2011, 10:58:05 AM »
I had this emailed to me this morning.... and considering the prices of fuel we are paying - particularly diesel, I thought Id post this for reading and comments if youa re so inclined.

The arguments appear to hold water, so I would like nothing better than to minimise the increases of costs we all face annually.

read on......

Subject: Fw: Fuel The Mass Debate




Or How to Knock About 50c a Litre Off the Price Of Fuel

First and foremost this debate should be centred on Diesel NOT Unleaded. Why? You may ask. Just look at the increase in supermarket prices for your answer. While it may cost you $5 or $10 extra to fill your tank everything that is transported (which is everything) rises as Diesel rises. My average basket at the supermarket per week has increased on average $30 and that's for one person. Australia's whole economy is tied to Diesel and therefore it should be afforded the same priority and status as water i.e. an essential commodity.

I own a small transport company and I have had to significantly raise my prices twice in the past year just to maintain profit margins. This cost you money too.

I am compelled to write this letter because I am sick of all the namby-pamby pussyfooting around everyone seems to be doing about the current fuel debate. I have spent considerable time researching this area because it affects my income. Contained herein is the WHOLE truth about the debate, the WHOLE big picture, if you will. NO-ONE till now has had the testicular fortitude to stick their necks out and present the WHOLE argument about just how much we are being RIPPED OFF. If you want the truth and the WHOLE truth read on.

DON'T – Listen to spin doctors from the oil companies. THEY HAVE A VESTED INTEREST TO KEEP FUEL PRICES HIGH.
DON'T – Listen to the government – state or federal. THEY HAVE A VESTED INTEREST TO KEEP FUEL PRICES HIGH.
DON'T – pay too much attention to news or current affairs programs. THEY HAVE THEIR OWN AGENDAS.
So here we go, how to make fuel cheaper!
FIRSTLY – DISBAND FUEL PARITY
Parity, for those that don't know, is government sanctioned price fixing (simple as that). Parity allows fuel companies to sell their products for the highest current price they find in the Asia Pacific region. It completely disregards supply and demand economics and eliminates any need for competition amongst themselves.

Don't believe me? Just look at the price of Diesel. If you remember growing up when Diesel was always 10-15c p/l cheaper than Petrol you might understand this more.

How can a product that costs far less to produce (partially a by-product of producing Unleaded as well) and a product that Australia uses more of than any other fuel be MORE EXPENSIVE than Unleaded? Simple, ring Singapore, where they don't use a lot of Diesel and import all their fuel, find out how much it's selling for there and charge the same here – sound fair? NOT!

Any other industry who tried this one would be hauled of to the High Court quick smart and prosecuted for price fixing! Oh but hang on, our government ALLOWS them to do this

NUMBER TWO – BARREL PRICE
That price the news loves to show us each night is the PREMIUM GRADE crude oil price. Australian oil companies DO NOT buy PREMIUM GRADE crude oil! In fact Australia produces around 70% of its own oil and imports about 30%. The cost of production per litre produced here is cheaper than that of imported fuel, but in no way is this factored into the pump price, because they don't need to (SEE PARITY ABOVE) we pay a pump price based on PREMIUM GRADE crude oil price the same as if we imported all of it, say somewhere like Singapore! Starting to get the picture?

NUMBER THREE – LEVIES
Everyone knows that both State and Federal Governments take a large slice of the cost of a litre of fuel. This equates in total to about 46% of the price per litre. This money is used for infrastructure, road trauma etc. etc. so fair enough right? WRONG!

What is wrong is that it is a PERCENTAGE! Look at this. If a litre of fuel costs $1.00 then the Government gets 46c p/l, right? A week later fuel rises to $1.10 p/l; the Government gets 50.6c p/l, bingo! Something tells me that in one week, their costs, IN NO WAY have gone up 9%!

As I stated previously – THE GOVERNMENT HAS A VESTED INTEREST TO KEEP FUEL PRICES HIGH. THEY MAKE LOTS MORE FREE MONEY! Why else do they allow fuel companies to maintain PARITY?

If they changed the tax (sorry, levy) to a flat rate tied to the GDP then the fuel price would drop drastically and immediately!

NUMBER FOUR – GST - THE DOUBLE DIP
Now this one is outright "THIEVERY" and also applies to cigarettes and alcohol.
GST = Goods and Services Tax, correct?
46% or 46c in every dollar in the price of a litre of fuel is TAX (sorry; again, LEVY).
What part of LEVY is a good or a service? YOU CANNOT TAX, TAX RIGHT? WRONG!
You do the math.
Say fuel costs $1.00 p/l – the GST component = 9c
But hang on a minute 46% or 46c of this is TAX!
i.e., 4.14c of the GST is ILLEGALLY CHARGED ON THE TAX COMPONENT! Not much you say?
FOR EVERY LITRE SOLD IN AUSTRALIA EVERY DAY!
That equates to millions of free dollars for the Government! I'll say it one more time - THE GOVERNMENT HAS A VESTED INTEREST TO KEEP FUEL PRICES HIGH. THEY MAKE LOTS MORE FREE MONEY!

The GST on fuel should be 5.4% not 10%. At $1.75 p/l this would drop the current price by around 8c p/l.
Feeling a little annoyed? You should be!
Even without disbanding parity and introducing real competition among fuel companies, you should be paying about 40c less per litre!

My name is Graeme Strempel, (gusto1@arach.net.au) and I run a small transport business, I happily welcome anyone, Government and fuel companies included to prove me wrong.

If you feel strongly about this issue then pass this missive on to everyone in your address book. Eventually someone might take notice.

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Offline Sharshebelle1

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Re: The argument regarding fuel prices - an interesting read
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2011, 12:11:09 PM »
Makes a lot of sence,  pity our Government doesn't work that way >:D
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Offline JCOJ

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Re: The argument regarding fuel prices - an interesting read
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2011, 12:19:00 PM »
I agree that we are getting totally ripped off at the moment.

Even if the oil companies took into account their own method of price per barrel - when it was $150/barrel our dollar was at .84c and at the pump we were paying $1.48/L.  Now crude per barrel is around $96.50, the dollar is at $1.07c and we are still paying $1.47/L at the pump.

When I bought my Pajero in March, 2010 diesel was $1.24/L, now it is $1.48/L - there is no reason to justify why has it gone up 20% in that time??
« Last Edit: July 11, 2011, 12:20:42 PM by JKohn »

Offline db

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Re: The argument regarding fuel prices - an interesting read
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2011, 01:33:42 PM »
Interesting.  Parity pricing has an economic rationale though.  By pricing fuel here in line with the price it can be sold with overseas it maintains the fuel companies profits here AND our supply, otherwise the producers would be better off selling it overseas to the highest bidder.  It may cost less to produce here , but it is worth (price) whatever the market will pay. 

Not sure that I understand from that argument why government mandated parity pricing is required, as the market should dictate it anyway (apart from its a convenient mechanism to ensure the companies and government maintain as high a price as possible).

And yeah John, maybe the barrel price and AUS$ thing is a red herring used to justify price jumps in the past?
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Offline Paul Mac

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Re: The argument regarding fuel prices - an interesting read
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2011, 02:50:21 PM »
It is interesting reading but I feel the same as many people......what can you do?

I remember Samuel's (ACCC) stating during the past petrol price peak.....when asked about the Singapore Price parity.....Oh, that isn't calculated into the current petrol price anymore.........it just doesn't matter what you ask, the gov't and the fuel companies are going to do what THEY want regardless of public sentiment.

All politicians from any party are never ever going to change things because it does mean more revenue for whichever party in control and the more they can spend to convince you to leave them in power at election time.

How often have you received emails about restricting purchases of fuel from particular outlets......how often have you actually seen it work?

We are sheep and will continue to get ripped off until the last drop of fossil fuel is drilled from the ground.

But..........smile whilst your getting ripped off OK.

Have a nice day.

Offline Bird

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Re: The argument regarding fuel prices - an interesting read
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2011, 03:00:39 PM »
Quote from: Paul Mac
It is interesting reading but I feel the same as many people......what can you do?
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Offline Tim - Stratford

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Re: The argument regarding fuel prices - an interesting read
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2011, 06:41:02 PM »
Yep, hate getting ripped here.....but the average price in the UK today was AUD$2.14 a litre...mind you the price in Indonesia would be a bit less I reckon.

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Offline Aaron Schubert

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Re: The argument regarding fuel prices - an interesting read
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2011, 11:10:31 PM »
Interesting read, but it doesn't change anything. Biodiesel!

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Offline bobnrob

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Re: The argument regarding fuel prices - an interesting read
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2011, 09:08:40 AM »
Tomorrow will be it's 3rd B'day
But as Paul Mac's says "We are sheep and will continue to get ripped off"
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Offline krisandkev

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Re: The argument regarding fuel prices - an interesting read
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2011, 10:40:09 AM »
Good points, but do not worry because soon the Carbon Tax will fix everything!   >:D  We will be saved.  8)
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Offline Bird

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Re: The argument regarding fuel prices - an interesting read
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2011, 10:48:28 AM »
Good points, but do not worry because soon the Carbon Tax will fix everything!   >:D  We will be saved.  8)

« Last Edit: July 13, 2011, 10:51:15 AM by Lost »
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Offline gibbo301

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Re: The argument regarding fuel prices - an interesting read
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2011, 11:09:57 AM »
What happened to the days that petrol and diesel was cheaper in Queensland than NSW  :'(

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Re: The argument regarding fuel prices - an interesting read
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2011, 12:37:32 PM »
What happened to the days that petrol and diesel was cheaper in Queensland than NSW  :'(


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Re: The argument regarding fuel prices - an interesting read
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2011, 12:45:52 PM »
I have a fool proof system for winning every major lottery in Australia.....guaranteed 1 division every week for a year.



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and if you believe that then you will also believe the Carbon pricing ( not a tax tax) will not only save Australia but the planet and will in future generations encourage all Australians to vote for the greens who will become a major political force ( Bob Brown's words ) at which time we will also be enjoying a revival of death duties, a more sympathetic approach to illegal immigrants and same sex marriages. We sure are making life confusing for future generations huh...... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Good thing we all have a sense of humour isn't it.....lol

Offline Geoffwin

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Re: The argument regarding fuel prices - an interesting read
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2011, 12:50:36 PM »
While there is a high tax component in our fuel if we want services or provision of anything from the "government", someone has to pay and no matter what some politicians like to say that someone is a tax payer or end user.

Fuel is not a government service and is supplied in a market economy. the market will charge what it thinks the market will pay.

I live in an area where there is no public transport and something that irks me is the cheap public transport that people get in Sydney. My taxes subsidise that to a large extent each year.
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Offline darren

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Re: The argument regarding fuel prices - an interesting read
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2011, 01:00:15 PM »
While there is a high tax component in our fuel if we want services or provision of anything from the "government", someone has to pay and no matter what some politicians like to say that someone is a tax payer or end user.

Fuel is not a government service and is supplied in a market economy. the market will charge what it thinks the market will pay.

I live in an area where there is no public transport and something that irks me is the cheap public transport that people get in Sydney. My taxes subsidise that to a large extent each year.

Just as the people from Sydney's taxes go to providing infrastructure in less populated regional areas like where you live.  It all has to go in the pot and be distributed as required
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Re: The argument regarding fuel prices - an interesting read
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2011, 01:33:25 PM »
Quote from: Geoffwin
I live in an area where there is no public transport
what you live in the CBD of either Shitney or melbourne?
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Re: The argument regarding fuel prices - an interesting read
« Reply #17 on: July 13, 2011, 01:39:50 PM »
Parity pricing is done on the wholesale bulk price, not on the retail pump price.  If we were paying the same as the Singapore motorists we would pay $1.62 for unleaded and $1.24 for diesel.  Petrol is very highly taxed in Singapore, to such an extent that they had to stop people driving over the causeway into Malaysia to fill up with cheaper fuel!  You have to have at least 3/4 of a tank of fuel to drive across the border.

The parity price for petrol (95) is currently about $0.72/litre.  The rest is mainly tax, shipping, and retail profit.  And if you think we are hard done by, out of 29 OECD countries Australia is 4th cheapest for petrol and 5th cheapest for diesel (in A$).

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Re: The argument regarding fuel prices - an interesting read
« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2011, 04:03:43 PM »
Quote from: Paul Mac
and if you believe that then you will also believe the Carbon pricing ( not a tax tax)
Good thing we all have a sense of humour isn't it.....lol
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Offline Geoffwin

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Re: The argument regarding fuel prices - an interesting read
« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2011, 08:36:59 PM »
what you live in the CBD of either ****ney or melbourne?

If there are no trains or buses at any time of day with 25 km I guess I must :-)

As I said the money has to come from somewhere - it would be interesting to be able to source real figures on what a true user pays system might look like? eg a real cost applied to the delivery of beef or a commuter paying the real cost of using a train, perhaps even the real cost of fuel if environmental and health considerations were taken into account?
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Offline skog

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Re: The argument regarding fuel prices - an interesting read
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2011, 09:50:29 PM »

NUMBER TWO – BARREL PRICE
That price the news loves to show us each night is the PREMIUM GRADE crude oil price. Australian oil companies DO NOT buy PREMIUM GRADE crude oil! In fact Australia produces around 70% of its own oil and imports about 30%. The cost of production per litre produced here is cheaper than that of imported fuel, but in no way is this factored into the pump price, because they don't need to (SEE PARITY ABOVE) we pay a pump price based on PREMIUM GRADE crude oil price the same as if we imported all of it, say somewhere like Singapore! Starting to get the picture?

This is a good point that most people do not know. We should have our own pricing and not be linked to Asia. They only reason it was done to increase the cost thus increasing the taxes. Thats my 2c worth  :cheers:

But I was working in the industry when fuel first hit 70c p/l and I can remeber when people told me that if it ever hit 80c p/l they would sell there car and then the uproar when it first hit $1p/l and now look at the price.
I also think that the big market players now have alot more control on the pump price as there are not many idenpendant operators out there these days to offer discounted fuel.

Offline Geoffwin

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Re: The argument regarding fuel prices - an interesting read
« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2011, 12:11:30 PM »
This is a good point that most people do not know. We should have our own pricing and not be linked to Asia. They only reason it was done to increase the cost thus increasing the taxes. Thats my 2c worth  :cheers:



I thought that was because of intense lobbying about the cost of searching for new oil in Australia. The oil companies said they would stop searching and Australia would no longer have an oil industry because they (the oil companies) would not be able to afford to do any exploratory work.

Peak oil will fix all this anyway, best to get the trips out of the way now before it happens?
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Offline skog

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Re: The argument regarding fuel prices - an interesting read
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2011, 07:12:00 PM »
 You may be correct Geoff and that is a very good point about the cost of exploration.

Offline kiwipete

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Re: The argument regarding fuel prices - an interesting read
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2011, 04:33:17 PM »
We all know Australia is a huge country and that towns are far between so you would think that the Government would help out in some way as we HAVE to use more fuel to transport anything (including ourselves) around this massive country of ours...  And yet we are being slammed...
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Re: The argument regarding fuel prices - an interesting read
« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2011, 03:52:07 AM »
Dont know what u are all winging about `i live in Gove NT the fuel is baught in by barge it comes here befor it goes to Darwin yet it is cheaper in Darwin,It is cheaper in Catherine than Gove yet the barge comes to Gove then to Darwin Offloads into a fuel truck is driven 4 hours to Catherine????Work that one out  .We are paying $1.98 per litre .Yeah it makes it quite expensive to go fishing for the day.Just my 2 bobs worth
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