Author Topic: Sorry , but just some sobering facts...  (Read 12659 times)

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Offline morgue

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Sorry , but just some sobering facts...
« on: May 25, 2011, 09:36:18 PM »
To all those parents thinking of giving ATV's to small children... have a read..

www.narroginag.wa.edu.au/nacsite/Pages/Quad%20bike%20warning.htm#Quad%20bikes

and this one, OK its in the US, but the kids / parents were the no different...
www.atvsafetynet.org/stories.php

and to finish off..
newsflavor.com/alternative/atv-and-quad-bike-deaths/







Offline areyonga

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Re: Sorry , but just some sobering facts...
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2011, 09:46:02 PM »
Too true; used properly they are an assett, but when not respected can cause grief
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Offline olddigger

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Re: Sorry , but just some sobering facts...
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2011, 10:28:29 PM »
I just hope this is read by the poster who wants to know what brand of quad bike to buy for his daughter's THIRD birthday. Cheers, Tony

Offline Aaron Schubert

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Re: Sorry , but just some sobering facts...
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2011, 10:52:18 PM »
They are just another risk in life. I've come off a quad, and it hurts! However, they are a lot of fun and in the right hands they are well worth the money.

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Offline Squalo

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Re: Sorry , but just some sobering facts...
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2011, 06:42:32 AM »
I don't understand the attraction with quads, motorcycles are far more fun.

Both my wife and I have been riding motorcycles all our lives - she had a bike at 17 and didn't get her first car till she was 22, last year I got the first car I've owned in 13 years - so we are keen to get the kids into it - but not until they are physically and mentally up to it. Which means that none of my three kids will be on any powered vehicle until they are 8-10 years old.

I'm all about risk vs. reward - but a 3-4yo on a powered vehicle is simply beyond what I consider a calculated risk.

My guess is that a lot of parents who buy their kids quads aren't riders themselves and really don't understand the forces involved in a decent crash.
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Offline darren

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Re: Sorry , but just some sobering facts...
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2011, 07:21:46 AM »
so if we are selectively picking statistics. How about these
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Products/B6940E9BF2695EE1CA25788400127B0A?opendocument

Now if there was 77 quad deaths between 2000 and 2007 and there is between 2000 to 3000 deaths a year due to influenza we should be much more concerned about our kids having a runny nose than riding a quad bike?????
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Offline Dion

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Re: Sorry , but just some sobering facts...
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2011, 07:24:01 AM »
so if we are selectively picking statistics. How about these
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Products/B6940E9BF2695EE1CA25788400127B0A?opendocument

Now if there was 77 quad deaths between 2000 and 2007 and there is between 2000 to 3000 deaths a year due to influenza we should be much more concerned about our kids having a runny nose than riding a quad bike?????


If you're going to quote statistics, quote properly  :angel:

The sample set of (kids riding quads) is far far smaller than (kids who can get the flu, i.e. all kids).

So statistically, yes, riding a quad is far far more dangerous than the flu.

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Offline darren

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Re: Sorry , but just some sobering facts...
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2011, 07:28:27 AM »
You may have missed my point... I dont care about either...
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Offline Heiny

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Re: Sorry , but just some sobering facts...
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2011, 07:30:46 AM »
Of the 77 people who died between July 2000 & January 2006            

8 were aged 0-5 years                        
10 were aged 6-15 years
11 were aged 16-25 years

These stats from the first link were taken in Australia, these stats show that all age groups are nearly even in fatalities. So why are people insisting that it is worse for a young child of 3-4 yrs old to be operating a quad than an adult when these stats clearly show that this is simply not true ???

A quad is dangerous in the wrong hands of any age or when a young child is under poor or no supervision by a responsible adult.
 
On most good quality quads the speed can be governed to barely walking speed and therefore drastically reducing the risk of injury.
 
Its easy for the person who was ultimately responsible for supervising a child to blame the quad for an injury/fatality but the reality is that the blame rests with them for not providing a safe environment for the child. Risk management, training and competency must applied to countless situations throughout everones life from childhood and right through adolesence.
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Offline Dion

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Re: Sorry , but just some sobering facts...
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2011, 08:01:15 AM »
Of the 77 people who died between July 2000 & January 2006             

8 were aged 0-5 years                         
10 were aged 6-15 years
11 were aged 16-25 years

These stats from the first link were taken in Australia, these stats show that all age groups are nearly even in fatalities. So why are people insisting that it is worse for a young child of 3-4 yrs old to be operating a quad than an adult when these stats clearly show that this is simply not true ???


Again, if you're going to quote stats and compare them, do it properly.

There are no doubt many more kids in 6-15 and adulst 16-25 riding quads than 0-5 year olds. 

Therefore statistically the 0-5 year olds are far and away more likely to have an accident, because there are 8 deaths out of what is a smaller sample.  There are probably 100x more people aged 16-25 riding quads than there are 0-5 year olds (probably far more).

I personally don't care what age people let their kids ride quad bikes (but stay away from me), but don't use statistics incorrectly in an attempt to support an argument.

It's like saying there were zero 0-5 year olds killed while operating forklifts, therefore they must be good forklift drivers ... of course ignoring the fact that 0-5 years don't operate forklifts and thus the sample size was 0!  Statistics and data are only useful in context, taken as absolutes like you have done is absolutely pointless.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2011, 08:05:30 AM by Dion »
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Offline Squalo

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Re: Sorry , but just some sobering facts...
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2011, 08:27:56 AM »
Again, if you're going to quote stats and compare them, do it properly.

There are no doubt many more kids in 6-15 and adulst 16-25 riding quads than 0-5 year olds. 

Therefore statistically the 0-5 year olds are far and away more likely to have an accident, because there are 8 deaths out of what is a smaller sample.  There are probably 100x more people aged 16-25 riding quads than there are 0-5 year olds (probably far more).

Yep. That's the numbers in context, and it's not good news for 0-5 year olds - and sadly they don't get to make the decision on their own personal wellbeing... their parents do that for them.

It's usually pointless discussing this sort of issue though - which is sad for the kids - because people who are prepared to give their kids quads and dirtbikes at that age generally aren't about to be swayed by reasonable/rational arguments against the idea. And in my experience, and I have been involved in dirtbike clubs since I was a 14yo, so nearly 40 years, the main reasons parents get kids onto bikes at such a young age have little to do with wanting to give the kids a wonderful experience (which it is, no question about it - motorcycling is magic) - but a lot to do with the parents ego.

I've been on the scene when young kids have been badly hurt on quads and dirtbikes and it is gutwrenching. You want to see the parents faces, you might feel differently about it then. As I've already said, none of mine are going anywhere near them for a good few years yet, and I have a garage full of offroad and road bikes and the only thing I bother watching on tv is motorcycle racing, so I'm not biased against motorcycles in the slightest.
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Offline Squalo

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Re: Sorry , but just some sobering facts...
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2011, 08:29:24 AM »
You may have missed my point... I dont care about either...

Darren, if you don't care, why are you commenting? It's a serious topic.
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Offline jaycamrie

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Re: Sorry , but just some sobering facts...
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2011, 08:40:56 AM »
Yes they can be a dangerous thing but used properly a very good asset ,we are dairy farmers and would be lost without one ,and i was thinking of getting one for our little boy who is four  until i come off ours doing about 40 kph and ended up in hospital in neck brace for 4 hours  got knocked out but alas all ok then the wife fell off doing about 5 kph and it actually rolled over  so now i go bit slower and where a helmet. So now he might have to wait awhile

Offline darren

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Re: Sorry , but just some sobering facts...
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2011, 08:56:42 AM »
Darren, if you don't care, why are you commenting? It's a serious topic.

 I actually thought it was an off rd camper trailer forum. Not facebook or somewhere people can beat their chest about any topic. But then again, i have been recently chastised for trying to promote camping on this forum by the powers to be.... so who knows
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Offline Bill

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Re: Sorry , but just some sobering facts...
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2011, 09:08:28 AM »
I actually thought it was an off rd camper trailer forum. Not facebook or somewhere people can beat their chest about any topic. But then again, i have been recently chastised for trying to promote camping on this forum by the powers to be.... so who knows
Actually this is the heading for this particular board. I copied and pasted it for our viewing pleasure...

General Discussion
Feel free to talk about anything and everything in this board.

So I guess talking about anything and everything is encouraged here...
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Offline Squalo

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Re: Sorry , but just some sobering facts...
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2011, 09:22:02 AM »
I actually thought it was an off rd camper trailer forum. Not facebook or somewhere people can beat their chest about any topic. But then again, i have been recently chastised for trying to promote camping on this forum by the powers to be.... so who knows

Yep I understand that point - and it is a fair point - but off-topic discussion is common to any forum, which is why most have a specific area for it these days.

It's fair to say that a 4yo on a quad, "properly supervised", is fairly safe. The problem is that proper supervision is a rare commodity, which is why I personally discourage people from providing them to very young children. All it takes is for your mobile to ring, or your  other child to need some direct attention, or for you to decide "well they went ok yesterday so today I'll watch the V8 supercars while they lark around in the paddock".

And as Jaycamrie discovered, they appear to be quite benign, but when they bite the result could be a bit of bark off, or it could be catastrophic.

I'm done, the information is out there and people are free to make their own minds up as to what level of risk they are prepared to accept on behalf of the tiny humans they are charged with safe-guarding.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2011, 09:40:07 AM by Squalo »
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Offline Patr80l

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Re: Sorry , but just some sobering facts...
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2011, 09:50:31 AM »
You may have missed my point... I dont care about either...

There's a different forum where you might get a chance to voice your opinion...

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Offline NewcastleKnight

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Re: Sorry , but just some sobering facts...
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2011, 09:54:25 AM »
There's a different forum where you might get a chance to voice your opinion...

"Your Honour, You may have missed my point... I dont care about either..."

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Offline Joes Shed

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Re: Sorry , but just some sobering facts...
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2011, 09:59:40 AM »
I don't think there is a right or a wrong in this situation. Some people are just more careful than others. In my opinion the most important thing is just to be aware. If you want to jump on a quad and have a rip, then you run the risk. Although I do think parents have a big duty of care to ensure the safety of their kids on these things. I wouldn't let me 5 year old jump on a bike without learning to ride safely and correctly. But like people have being saying, you could step out in the road tomorrow and get hit by a car and you can't live your life worrying about every risk! Also we do not know the circumstances of the unfortunate events and how reliable the statistics are. You can generalize a group of misfortune but if they are selectively choosing particular facts to promote a point, they cannot be counted as gospel!

I agree with both point, just my 2 cents....

Ride safe and have run  ;D
« Last Edit: May 26, 2011, 10:01:37 AM by Joes Shed »

Offline Alloy C/T

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Re: Sorry , but just some sobering facts...
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2011, 10:42:32 AM »
Sobering facts ? Statistics can and are manipulated to become "facts" to suit the required outcome, now that is what is sobering.
Fact: In the early 1970s straight after the wearing of a helmet became law when riding a motorcycle in Australia the death rate of motorcyclists increased by 20 odd percent over the next 2 years, Why ? Perhaps due to riding harder and faster in the belief that the head being in a helmet made one safer?
Fact: Upon the introduction of "fullface" helmets another spike in motorcycle deaths.Why ? Could it be that the first generation of fullface helmets restricted sideways vision and and in the event of an accident landing on the chin guard area of the helmet forced the whole helmet up and back resulting in a broken neck ?
Sobering "facts" ,make of it what you wish,

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Re: Sorry , but just some sobering facts...
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2011, 11:27:40 AM »
also read this one
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/pedestrian-killed-crossing-road/story-e6freuy9-1225879385298
-
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Offline rotare

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Re: Sorry , but just some sobering facts...
« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2011, 11:35:28 AM »
Although I can appreciate the concern from some of the posters, life is full of risks.  Here's a snap shot of my life in just a week, and why you have to laugh sometimes:

I went to the chiropractor last week and told him I train in karate.... he frowned and said that's not good as there is a high risk of getting a serious injury from that sport.  I also told him that I occasionally race a car on the quarter mile..... nope, the sudden jolting and accelerating is no good for my spine.  How about the dirt bike riding I do?..... nope, that's very dangerous too.  He asked me what I do for a job and I say sit at a desk all day, hence why I try to be active outside of work...... well guess what, the chiro thinks that's not very good for my back either.

My work is encouraging people to be more aware of their health, so they pay for a specialist to check out our health and fitness.  During the conversation I get asked if I exercise during the week.  My response "Sure do, jump on the treadmill 3-4 times a week and run 5kms"..... specialist frowns, and says that running, particularly on tread mills is the worst thing for my knees.  I get asked if I drink alcohol and I say not during the week, but typically enjoy myself on the weekend...... nope, that's bad, binge drinking is worse than drinking regularly.  Then I get asked about my diet and I say I try to eat healthy during the week, but like to have a break from eating rabbit food on the weekends..... I  get told with that sort of attitude my life expectancy will be reduced.

Having a dinner party conversation and someone pipes up that they saw me riding to work one day.  General consensus from the people at the dinner party is that I'm mad riding a bike in peak hour traffic and I should expect to be killed or made a quadriplegic in the near future.  We get onto another topic and talk about fishing.  I tell them where I fish in my boat and that I fish at night sometimes too.... once again I’m told I'm crazy and that I should expect to die from drowning from my boat being swamped by a wave or if I’m lucky enough to survive the swamping, I’ll get eaten by a shark.  I get a similar response when I told them I enjoy spear fishing too....

Haven’t told anyone about the chain sawing I’ve been doing, the gutters I cleaned on our two story house or the 60ft tree I climbed on the weekend to get the kids footy out of it.....

Sorry, I’ve taken a light hearted approach to this, but if I was to worry about everything I do, and analyse every risk I take..... I reckon you would find me naked, curled up into a foetal position and sucking my thumb.

Sometimes you just have to manage the risks and live life!  ;D  
« Last Edit: May 26, 2011, 12:12:28 PM by rotare »

Offline austastar

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Re: Sorry , but just some sobering facts...
« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2011, 11:57:34 AM »
Hi,
   I'll admit that the thought of small kids ontrolling powered machinery sends shivers down my spine.

However, when we were camped on the W Coast of Tas (Trial Harbour) there were a few small kids riding quads around the village and over the beach and having a marvellous time. No way did I ever think I would approve of this, especially with a pile of kids on the back, but they were riding sensibly at about walking pace and not making a noise or tearing up the ground.
Later in the afternoon, the happiest kid was the one still with fuel in his tank.

On the other hand I lost a friend on a farming property who died as a result of a quad accident. As a retired Professor of Surgery, he would have been well aware of the trauma potential from impact or roll over, but may have been a victim of his inexperience rather than exuberance.

The point of my rant - Life has risks, manage them to the best of your ability.  Always be aware that the consequences of failing are not pleasant.

cheers

Offline AKB

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Re: Sorry , but just some sobering facts...
« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2011, 12:11:33 PM »
My son has been on a quad since he was 5 a 50cc that was wound right back. 
He has to have full safety gear (including helmets and boots).
As per my discussion on the thread on this last year would I recommend it? Probably not we are fortunate and live on a little bit of land where he gets to use it regularly.

This Easter we went camping down south with a friend and her family on a private property.  There were approx 15 quad bikes of all sizes ranging from 50cc kids to 700cc Raptors and approx 15 kids.  I nearly had a heart attack, didn't drink or relax during the day but every single child was wearing safety gear, they stopped at 5pm and couldnt start again until the latest adult was out of bed.  If they were silly they got banned and I honestly didn't see one child come off.

At the end we had packed up the Jayco, our sons bike was on the back of the trailer and I was standing around chatting happy that my son had come away without injury (this wasn't due to his skill level so much as normally at home it's just him on his bike and he hadn't had to worry about others on quad bikes around him.

Anyway I suddenly hear this high scream and recognise it as my son's, What had happended?  A swing on a tree branch the adults had set up at the beginning of the weekend had snapped and pinned him underneath.

The moral of this story.....this is not something that people are going to agree on and sometimes I think your right and it is driven by adults ego etc, but sometimes no matter what you do its the things that you dont even consider a risk that come back and bite you.

Offline Redback

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Re: Sorry , but just some sobering facts...
« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2011, 12:17:34 PM »
There's a different forum where you might get a chance to voice your opinion...

"Your Honour, You may have missed my point... I dont care about either..."

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Cheers Baz.

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