Don't worry about the cattle buggering the bush...

[D4D]

DSE (Department of Sparks and Embers) seem to do a pretty good job on their own 

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/wildfire-tears-through-mt-richmond-national-park/story-e6frf7kx-1226016874022

A Department of Sustainability and Environment burnoff was responsible for sparking a bushfire burning out of control in the state's southwest.

[Kit_e_kat9]

LOL!  What Bright Sparks!

Kit_e

[speewa158]

Dumb & Dumder at tax payers expence . Makes you feel all warm & fuzzy inside   DONT IT 

[fabulous]

didn't they set fire to Wilson's Prom a few years ago ?

[GGV8Cruza]

They also set a fire which got out of control last year around Mt Buangar, sometimes I wonder what thought and planning goes into these, I know they try and plan but of late a few have got out of control.

We were on Orpheus Island a couple of years ago and they decided to burn one end of the island, they were telling us that they can control the fire and burn selected areas to leave untouched areas for the wildlife. Come night fall they set the fire and go and sit back and relax and some even went off in their boat to watch it from the sea. I cannot see how they controlled the fire and it went were it wanted. I am sure there is some science to it but I think the is a small pyromaniac in them all.

GG

[db]

I am a volunteer firey, and we sometimes bag the DEH (dept of environment) for 'over achieving' with burn offs .

But burning off is not a precise thing, there are a huge number of variables (terrain, fuel load, wind speed, humidity, fuel curing etc) some of which can / will change during the course of the burn.  So they get it wrong sometimes.  And they get berated for burning off / not burning off depending on which side of the fence you sit.

So I have some sympathy for them.  Always easy to sit on the sidelines and commentate...

cheers,

Richard

[Brij]

Agree 100% with you Richard (including the "sometimes over achieving"). A very inexact science.

Peter H (another volunteer firey)

[bobnrob]

by db
But burning off is not a precise thing, there are a huge number of variables (terrain, fuel load, wind speed, humidity, fuel curing etc) some of which can / will change during the course of the burn. So they get it wrong sometimes.

Firie here to, & those factors do of course play a part. But proper planning plays a large part in preparing & eliminating potential problems.
Have never worked with National Parks from your neck of the woods, but have worked with Vic's DSE & NSW's NPWS...& they've always left a sour taste.

I've many stories, but just a couple...

Watching a fire front in Vic back in '06. Fire about 400m down a slight decline with the breeze slowing it's advance.
I asked the DSE if they'd like my crew to light the track & send the fire in?
NO!
Why? Everythings in our favour 
Total fire ban has been called for today...   

Major fire...On patrol I came across a growing spot fire. Left on it's own, it would've meant the 3-4 days everyone had been working it would've been for nought.
We'd emptied our tank on it & knocked most over. NPWS comes along just as we needed to pull out & re-fill. They said they'd work it till we got back.
Yep, got back & NPWS nowhere to be seen, & obviously no extra work done to it

Some may know of Montague Island?
Most here call the NPWS "National Sparks & Wildfires, I call 'em No Penguin Will Survive. 3 x they've lit up, & 3 x they've burnt to death a LOT of the Penguins they're suppose to be protecting.

I could go on for hours, so you won't find me championing them...EVER
They should stay in their office playing with all their theory to their hearts content, & where they can't do any damage anywhere

I guess I should write <end rant/> 

[briann532]

I am a volunteer firey, and we sometimes bag the DEH (dept of environment) for 'over achieving' with burn offs .

But burning off is not a precise thing, there are a huge number of variables (terrain, fuel load, wind speed, humidity, fuel curing etc) some of which can / will change during the course of the burn.  So they get it wrong sometimes.  And they get berated for burning off / not burning off depending on which side of the fence you sit.

So I have some sympathy for them.  Always easy to sit on the sidelines and commentate...

cheers,

Richard

Fair comments Richard, but will they extend the same attitude to me.....

I think not.

Although I have had numerous dealings with rangers at social, and professional levels and have found them to be good blokes.

they suffer the same beauracracy that we face.
A bit like the coppers. Just blokes trying to their jobs. (with their hands tied and red tape binding them)

Before anyone sledges me - exceptions to everything of course................

Cheers
Brian

[grizzly]

I am Glad there are so many armchair experts out there . I have been involved with the RFS and NPWS for a combined period of over 20yrs and have observed both organisations stuff up , and the sad thing is as stated above their are many variables, and the difference between being a legend and being a major failure are measured in microns on a fire ground and only those that have faced the red demon or never had a go bad should be entitled to be harsh.In the past 2 years there has been a number of very good people with many years experience who have died trying to protect the community
Grizzly 

[Kit_e_kat9]

LOL!  What Bright Sparks!

Kit_e

Can't see how this comment
A: Runs them down
B: Runs down the Fire Brigade
C: Could upset anyone.

I'm simply having a laugh at the predicament they got themselves in.  I'm no "armchair expert" (although I do know a bit about armchairs) ...

Kit_e

It's a dangerous business Froddo
Going out your door
You step into the road
And if you don't keep your feet
There is no knowing where
You might be swept off to ...

Bilbo Baggins  

[bobnrob]

Faced many a wall grizzly, so my post above is based on experience. Not as a "legend" either, simply a nondescript bloke protecting my family & community...and working with/observing.
Yes, there are some RFS members in a position of so called capability who propose to knowing what they're doing...& they've stuffed up majorly (is that a word?). But in my experience, NPWS's SNAFU far out-weight the RFS

[rescue1]

Always good to be able to quote isolated incidents

You may think the person that destroyed 100 times the area with a backburn that went wrong than was destroyed by the original fire might best be described as an idiot, until you find out he went on to be a NSWRFS Commissioner although some may describe his next career move as proof of the first inference though.

Critics of his successor, the current NSWRFS Commissioner have stated that he doesn't know the human cost of bush fires, until somebody reminds him that his own father was killed in a hazard reduction that went wrong.

DSE (or whatever they call themselves this week) are not my favourite people, having dealt with them on a business level as well as working alongside the green goblins but they are in a no win situation (as are most fire authorities) when it comes to hazard reductions.

When you've hauled a kilometre of hose through the scrub to get from where the water is to where the fire's going then feel free to comment....

[Benduro]

Herald Sun's so called journalism isn't worth a pinch of salt in my book... Sensationalist and mostly negative rubbish
Oh and did anyone notice the last line of the article: No homes were threated by the fire.

[grizzly]

As in all things related to fires their are so many things that people experience that shape their opinions, I have been in situations that have been worrying but do I blame the people who sent me their or myself for not refusing to go or sizing it up better,(and only in hindsight do you have 20/20 vision) what do they say what does not kill you- you damn well need to learn from.
 Kit e kat you need to understand things that you experience on a fire ground can make you sensitive to comments on occasions and no matter how you spend your time most of us react to things that we are passionate about for what ever reason, and I am glad that we live in a country where we are free to speak on any topic and when it all boils down to it we need to get back to the things that are realy important.
D4D The cattle may bugger the bush or may not according to where you are standing and who you are talking with however the bush has been burning for over 60,000 yrs and fire for the forseable future is something that it can recover from, recovering from cattle may take a little longer according to others?

[Duchess]

 agree...both and all services can stuff up.

But time and again, we as RFS see the Sparkies sideline us for whatever reason and then stand by and watch as a fire gets out of control. What can they be thinking??

All in all...it seems that the environment itself at times is smarter than us and knows what it needs. We can't control it, we can't contain it, we can't explain it...we as firey's are there to protect property and lives, that's all.

[singo-26]

agree...both and all services can stuff up.

But time and again, we as RFS see the Sparkies sideline us for whatever reason and then stand by and watch as a fire gets out of control. What can they be thinking??

All in all...it seems that the environment itself at times is smarter than us and knows what it needs. We can't control it, we can't contain it, we can't explain it...we as firey's are there to protect property and lives, that's all.

Or just poke and prod a fire till its really cranky.