Took a Great Wall for a test drive

[terravista]

When trying to justify a cheaper price with the price of labour, does anyone know how much human labour is actually involved in a mass produced vehicle.
Robots don't get paid much, and holiday pay for them is non existent.
So, are we talking about 20 labour hours, 100 hours, more?
If it is something like 100 hours, the difference between $50 per hour and $5 per hour is only $4 500. Not exactly a heap of dough percentage wise to justify another $20 000.
I would like to see people making comments like "crap" etc. to show some qualifications for making statements. If it is backed up with knowledge. great, but if it just mindless distrust or stupidity, maybe they should just back off. Given reviews or comments with facts, at least allows readers to make an informed decision.
If I read it right, the latest 4x4 Action magazine showed the results of the Australian Rally, and to my surprise, in the history of the race, no winning Toyota's. Go figure. I guess a mindless comment would be that Toyota's are crap. I think a lot of people would argue.

[tonym]

Just a small point but most of the utes are made in Thailand and have been for a while. I know the Hilux is, I've been to the factory there. There are benefits from the Thai govt for commercial vehicles that make it attractive for manufacturers.

On the Great Wall, ATECO are an established distributor so you cab expect solid backup. I have no knowledge of the brand apart from looking at one with a friend for his business, then he decided to keep the Lux. But was happy with the value for money and build.

[richee]

On the Great Wall, ATECO are an established distributor so you cab expect solid backup.

Find yourself an Alfa forum and see what they have to say about Ateco

[Redback]

The only thing I'd be concerned about is the size of that petrol motor, it's no fun towing when the vehicle is struggling, maybe take the camper with you next time and test drive it towing your camper.

Baz.

[D4D]

When trying to justify a cheaper price with the price of labour, does anyone know how much human labour is actually involved in a mass produced vehicle.
Robots don't get paid much, and holiday pay for them is non existent.

Sure robots carry out the final build but there is a lot of human work beforehand building all the sub-assemblies

[darren]

Its funny how people Sh!tcan a great wall because its made in china but have no problem buying a tigerz winch or any of the thousands of other things they own that are made in China

[theflyingbadger]

Hmmm ?
He was trying to trade it in on a 26k Mazda
More room to play with in a 60 k patrol maybe
The car had 80.000 km

if he'd sold it privately he'd have got a shedload more than 6k for it. A mate has just bought a 4yo diesel santa fe privately and he's cock-a-hoop that he's got one for $19K. about 80k on that one...

[Alloy C/T]

Really makes me laugh when people sh--can products made in China , just go back a few years and the cry was that Made in Japan meant it was crap ,  as you sit at your computer berating "made in china" just have a look around  , bet you that 50+% of everything you see has some China imput , from the chair your sitting on to the box of paper clips ,  as for the 1 eyed tojo nissan lovers , have a real good look where a large amount of your beloved vehicle components are actually made , ohh no , there made in ?? CHINA.

[rotare]

When trying to justify a cheaper price with the price of labour, does anyone know how much human labour is actually involved in a mass produced vehicle.
Robots don't get paid much, and holiday pay for them is non existent.
So, are we talking about 20 labour hours, 100 hours, more?
If it is something like 100 hours, the difference between $50 per hour and $5 per hour is only $4 500. Not exactly a heap of dough percentage wise to justify another $20 000.

Sure, they probably use robots somewhere in their manufacturing process, but if you're thinking that there are a handful of production workers milling around a sea of robots that are putting together their vehicles....... well, that's something out a science fiction movie.  Even with the use of robots, people still play a big part in most manufacturing processes.  When Mitsubishi were still making cars here in Adelaide they employed approximately 1500 assembly line workers... even though they used robots in their assembly process.  Don't forget we're only talking about the assembly of the vehicle here, there are thousands of other people involved in the manufacturing of components and sub assemblies for the vehicle, external to the vehicle manufacturer themselves.  Taking this into consideration, the true amount of total labour hours for building a car would more likely be a 1000 man hours, not 100 man hours.  On this basis, getting away with paying people a pittance really pays off. 

[Estelle]

They are trying to improve their quality control.  Wouldn't buy anything made in Japan many years ago.

I would say that any components made in China for use in overseas branded equipment would need to meet that companies quality standards. Parts and equipment made under strict controls.

Would I buy one? Not until they prove themselves over many years.

John.

[rotare]

Really makes me laugh when people sh--can products made in China , just go back a few years and the cry was that Made in Japan meant it was crap ,  as you sit at your computer berating "made in china" just have a look around  , bet you that 50+% of everything you see has some China imput , from the chair your sitting on to the box of paper clips ,  as for the 1 eyed tojo nissan lovers , have a real good look where a large amount of your beloved vehicle components are actually made , ohh no , there made in ?? CHINA.

When the Japanese went into mass production after WW2 it's a fact their quality was crap.  Over a period time (40 odd years) they turned that around so much so they were touted as leaders in quality control and quality systems (take Toyotas TQM systems as an example).  Today a product manufactured in Japan is generally percieved as being of good quality.  Taiwan followed suit, but today it's generally accepted their products are also of reasonable quality.

China and India are the new kids on the block and are going down a similar path that Japan did 60 or more so years ago.  There is no doubt some good, well made and value for money gear is coming out of China.  However, unfortunately there is also a lot of crap too.  Until countries like China and India's philosophy on manufacturing quality products, matures, they will continue to have a stigma attached to any products made in their country for a few more years yet, I would suggest.   

[robsjack]

Redback

That is still my main concern. The power of the petrol motor and how it might handle towing the trailer.

I might wait a little longer until the diesel version is released.

Everyone - thanks for your comments:- Amongst the various opinions there is some good discussion.

The Great Walls are very cheap but I don't think the price reflects the overall quality which seems pretty good all things considered. If you're after a (new) 4WD capable wagon which is relatively well optioned then it seems a good deal.
It's no LC, Hilux or Patrol (not intending to be) but it's less than 1/2 the price too. These types of vehicles are designed with heavy offroading and longevity in mind but that comes with a huge price tag. I still can't see how they justify those price tags.

[Old Codger]

Not an expert, far from it,  but 2.4 litres does not seem enough to drag around a 1000Kg CT.

It would be a sad old engine after 30,000 Kms.

[spargo]

Why are people calling these 'Soft-Roaders'?

I've always thought a soft-roader was an all-wheel-drive/AWD which does not have a low-range option in the transfer case, whereas a 4x4/4WD/four-wheel drive had both low and high range 4 wheel drive.

i.e. A Suzuki Jimny to me, is a 4x4 because it has low-range. Same as my 4x4 Mitsub Triton Ute. A Rav4/X-Trail/Kluger is a soft-roader in my opinion..


My opinion of the topic = the Great Wall definitely has its place in the market. It's not for the full-on off-roaders, but has its place in between those and the 'Soft-roaders'.

Happy shopping!

[darren]

.

[Cheesoid]

as you sit at your computer berating "made in china" just have a look around  , bet you that 50+% of everything you see has some China imput , from the chair your sitting on to the box of paper clips

Too true, it's very difficult to find wholly and solely Aussie made products.  Although my camper is supposedly Aussie made from Aussie steel, where are the welding components, fittings, tools etc used to make it manufactured?  In fact the only Australian made things I can find are my wife (have my doubts, she tans very easily), the VE Valiant in the shed and the Coopers pale in the fridge.  The last 2 are even worse than made in China.  Made in Adelaide :'(.  (No offence South Australians but I still take the 97 grand final pretty hard  ). 

[morgue]

The big thing that turned me off the chinses imported FWD, is that the RACV impact tests canned the Great Wall, one report said that would be safer on your old Massy grey tractor than in a Great Wall at this period of time until they get their act together , I think I will give them a miss.

As for a soft roader, there are 2 makes with proper 4wd, low range, one is the Nissan Xtrail and the other is the Suzuki Grand Vitrara, both have the ability to engage low range 4wd.
The other makes of soft roaders are a sedan/wagon composite with high ground clearance, 2wd and Awd capibilities, ie permanent split diff, 60 rear 40 front, Toyota I think has the computer control which varies the % between the front and rear depending on traction.
They have a place and are extremely popular.

Me, I like engaging wheel hubs, and tinkering...

[2 Brutal]

Not an expert, far from it,  but 2.4 litres does not seem enough to drag around a 1000Kg CT.

It would be a sad old engine after 30,000 Kms.

But a 3L motor is ok for 3500kg's. albeit a diesel.

I've only done work on 1 great wall, that was fitting a bullbar. Build quality under the bumper didn't look too bad, but the paint work around joins and seams etc was very ordinary, it already had rust appearing around the front seams where the front guards met the rad cross panel. This car was only 3 weeks old. But in saying that did work on a 200 series today that was 2 years old and was quite shocked at how badly it was rusting on the chassis in places.

[Gunna Do]

Most new brands of vehicles which come onto the market, be they Chinese, Indian, Russian or where ever, seem to have some quality control issues, and reliability issues.  Sometimes these issues surface during the warranty period, and sometimes they surface after the warranty period has run out.  Perhaps Great Wall will be the market leader in Australia in years to come, but untill they have passed the test of time, I personnally wouldn't consider one.  But hay, everyone's entitled to their own opinion.

[Heiny]

In fact the only Australian made things I can find are my wife (have my doubts, she tans very easily), the VE Valiant in the shed and the Coopers pale in the fridge.  The last 2 are even worse than made in China.  Made in Adelaide :'(.  (No offence South Australians but I still take the 97 grand final pretty hard  ). 


[/quote]
Hey Cheesy

I hate the Cows too but they did send the Saints marching didn't they anyhow a fine drop like Coopers Pale would be wasted on a mexican  

[Juggs]

But a 3L motor is ok for 3500kg's. albeit a diesel.

I've only done work on 1 great wall, that was fitting a bullbar. Build quality under the bumper didn't look too bad, but the paint work around joins and seams etc was very ordinary, it already had rust appearing around the front seams where the front guards met the rad cross panel. This car was only 3 weeks old. But in saying that did work on a 200 series today that was 2 years old and was quite shocked at how badly it was rusting on the chassis in places.

mazda bt-50 3l turbo diesel 4cyl
105 kW @ 3,500 rpm
330 Nm @ 1,800 rpm

great wall 2.4l petrol 4cyl
100kW @5250rpm
200Nm @2500-3000rpm

as long as you dont want to be a speed demon the diesel will pull 3 tonne easily
customer at work has a bt-50 with a 3 tonne trailer he loads with a 2 toone excavator and has now done 160,000,000kays in 18 months all over the state

apart from clutch issues which are now rectified no dramas and he services it every 30 thousand kays

aparantly a double plate clutch is fitted for every day driving he now has a single plate clutch and it hasnt let go in 80,000kays he was getting15 out of the base one

[Cheesoid]

I hate the Cows too but they did send the Saints marching didnth't they Grin laugh Kiss anyhow a fine drop like Coopers Pale would be wasted on a mexican  Cheesy Grin laugh Evil Cheers

Fair play, looking forward to travelling through your beautiful state (maybe with the Val).  Back to the thread 

[9775Andrew]

this country won't be happy till we are all speaking Chinese.

can't buy an Aussie made shirt, even our Bonds undies are made OS. Now we're all so focused on saving a few bucks on cars (in the short term), we'll compromise any standards we had.

wake up before the yellow sun is replaced with a yellow star on the aboriginal flag.


they don't call it the C word for no reason

[theflyingbadger]

can't buy an Aussie made shirt,

RM Williams

[9775Andrew]

find me a RMW store in Townsville