MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Nay-DMAX on October 21, 2015, 03:17:47 PM
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Hi folks I know this is not specifically camping but it could be an extended period of camp type living for us. We have in the pipeline getting rid of our current house and building on the land we are on. Just wondered if there are any swaggers with experience in this. We are considering putting the current house for sale for removal at buyers expense instead of having to get it demolished.
Then we have the issue of where are we going to live, we are tossing up on a caravan here on the property but what are peoples thoughts or if you have had experience yourself as far as toilet/shower. Ideally we will be staying here in some capacity as the horses are here and don't want to be travelling each day or paying rent somewhere if we can help it. We do not currently have a caravan so unsure if we factor in the cost of purchasing a cheap van or hire something long term. Have not found out if there is anywhere locally who hires the toilet/shower units and don't know what the cost of those would be like depending on the time of year I would be happy to just put up a temporary "shed" and use the camp shower.
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Sounds like a good excuse for a 16m x 10m shed/man cave to be built. Bathroom toilet inbuilt as well. Set the camper up inside and home and hosed.
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Sounds like a good excuse for a 16m x 10m shed/man cave to be built. Bathroom toilet inbuilt as well. Set the camper up inside and home and hosed.
I can assure you if we could afford a shed that big in the grand plan that would be on the cards unfortunately the shed we are looking to build will be a fair bit smaller than that. The other thing with bathroom and toilet in there is that the current septic needs to go for new house build so would not have anywhere to plumb them too.
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You can always dream (of the shed). I know as I have been dreaming of one for 40 years.
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Up your insurance & put the red steer through it >:D >:D >:D
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You could call this guy :)
http://www.news.com.au/finance/real-estate/extravagant-mansion-worth-20m-abruptly-demolished-in-toorak/story-fncq3era-1227577282900 (http://www.news.com.au/finance/real-estate/extravagant-mansion-worth-20m-abruptly-demolished-in-toorak/story-fncq3era-1227577282900)
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You could call this guy :)
http://www.news.com.au/finance/real-estate/extravagant-mansion-worth-20m-abruptly-demolished-in-toorak/story-fncq3era-1227577282900 (http://www.news.com.au/finance/real-estate/extravagant-mansion-worth-20m-abruptly-demolished-in-toorak/story-fncq3era-1227577282900)
MMM yep but he appears to have the money to pay someone for demolition and council say we cannot do it ourselves.
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Im pretty sure you can hire those jayco style relocatables witch would give you everything you need including a bathroom providing you have room on the site.
Be more comfortable than a caravan and they come in several sizes
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Im pretty sure you can hire those jayco style relocatables witch would give you everything you need including a bathroom providing you have room on the site.
Be more comfortable than a caravan and they come in several sizes
Was thinking something like that but not sure how much it will push the price out and again would need plumbing if we had bathroom and old septic has to go.
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You could have the new septic system installed for the new house (if it is possible) and have a temporary conection to it for your temporary accomodation.
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An ex development sales office or the like are not overly expensive and a small composting toilet would negate a dedicated black water septic. A greywater holding tank with a pump may be acceptible to tbe Council.
When it is no longer needed you can sell it for close to what you paid, or keep it as a workshop.
We are working on a housing development site where the sales office was up for sale. 10m x 4.5 m.
All they wanted was $5 000 and the removal would have been around $3 000. It had 2 a/c units, insulated, security screens and wiring.
You could also look up old bus style RV's. I have seen them from $20 000 up to squillions but fully self contained.
If the new building needed a treatmant plant or septic, you may be able to site that so it can swing over to the house later.
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MMM yep but he appears to have the money to pay someone for demolition and council say we cannot do it ourselves.
Because of asbestos in the building or just that Council insist you must use qualified trades nowadays?
I assume the house is on stumps to be able to remove it and generally it has to be in reasonable nick to get someone to take on the cost of uplift and transport so you'll be fortunate if someone is prepared to take it away for nothing. If it's asbestos clad you could forget it.
If you want to sub out the new building yourself (Council will require licensed trades for all structural works, electrical, plumbing to sign off on them) which only leaves second fix, painting and cleaning up for you then the question of where to live onsite arises. With no septic they certainlywon't allow any wet area facility that isn't tank and pump out and one holers have long been banned on most building sites. That only leaves a caravan as it's temporary and you can then fudge the disposal quietly provided the health inspector doesn't come sniffing around. A shed first up would be ideal for storage while you're in the cara but perhaps the budget won't allow that til much later.
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An ex development sales office or the like are not overly expensive and a small composting toilet would negate a dedicated black water septic.
No Councils won't wear any fixed building as they know owners may want to live in them so only storage sheds and temp toilets for building. On commercial the unions require fully plumbed and wired facilities but that's out of the question for domestic.
I'd stick to a road registered cara that you can tow away and come back again should Council have a time of stay limit for them and you can comply, a lot like parking a trailer on a public road with time rules. Water will be OK as the meter stays but these days a lot of Councils won't allow gennys onsite which means ponying up for a temp power board. A sparky must arrange for power to be cutoff at the pole and disconnect for the the demolition/removal anyway and then you'll have to pay for a temporary power board for the building and supply for the cara.
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As prodigyrf said most people who remove houses do so FOC and cover their own transport costs etc.
You are looking at $10-15k to demolish with asbestos extra, all depending on tip fees and location etc.
As far as amenities are concerned and an someone alluded above you might be able to hire or purchase/resell an amenities block with black water tank pumped out occasionally. These sheds may not require council permission.
Edit you replied while I was typing.
With regards to power get the Sparky to install a pole on your front boundary with a supply authority meter/ service fuses etc and a power point or two. You might be able to negotiate a discount with the builder on your temp builders supply if you go down this path. Then when the Sparky need to power up the new house he does it from this meter box on the boundary with an underground supply and no ugly overhead service hanging of the front of the house.
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How big is your property? Could you build the new on a different spot and then when it's all done knock down the old one?
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Because of asbestos in the building or just that Council insist you must use qualified trades nowadays?
I assume the house is on stumps to be able to remove it and generally it has to be in reasonable nick to get someone to take on the cost of uplift and transport so you'll be fortunate if someone is prepared to take it away for nothing. If it's asbestos clad you could forget it.
If you want to sub out the new building yourself (Council will require licensed trades for all structural works, electrical, plumbing to sign off on them) which only leaves second fix, painting and cleaning up for you then the question of where to live onsite arises. With no septic they certainlywon't allow any wet area facility that isn't tank and pump out and one holers have long been banned on most building sites. That only leaves a caravan as it's temporary and you can then fudge the disposal quietly provided the health inspector doesn't come sniffing around. A shed first up would be ideal for storage while you're in the cara but perhaps the budget won't allow that til much later.
No asbestos cladding house is in reasonable but old condition would need some work but if someone had a permit to put a house on their weekender or something it could do that sort of job. And yes it is on stumps. In regards to demolition ourselves they just say we cant do it, the paperwork only says they require evidence that the demolisher has necessary knowledge, experience, equipment and storage to properly conduct the demolition.
The new house will be with a building company so council wont have a problem with that. I was thinking with the toilet side of things depending on cost just hiring one of those on a trailer type ones and getting it swapped as needed? But not sure what the cost would be or if anyone would give us a long term hire type cost. Septic will be in the new house build. Shed up first is still on the cards but would only be about 6mx6m we do have some storage options available and the things that would not be going in the new house like freestanding wardrobes we would sell.
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An ex development sales office or the like are not overly expensive and a small composting toilet would negate a dedicated black water septic. A greywater holding tank with a pump may be acceptible to tbe Council.
When it is no longer needed you can sell it for close to what you paid, or keep it as a workshop.
We are working on a housing development site where the sales office was up for sale. 10m x 4.5 m.
All they wanted was $5 000 and the removal would have been around $3 000. It had 2 a/c units, insulated, security screens and wiring.
You could also look up old bus style RV's. I have seen them from $20 000 up to squillions but fully self contained.
If the new building needed a treatmant plant or septic, you may be able to site that so it can swing over to the house later.
Thanks I think a van will end up cheaper and we can pay a fee to council $100ish to stay in a van on our property whilst we build then just have to try sort out the toilet shower issue.
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Hmmm...even the cara may need a Planning permit and hoops to jump through if you scroll down this link to 'Living in a Static Caravan On Your Own Land'
http://www.c4caravans.com/blog/can-i-live-in-my-static-caravan.php (http://www.c4caravans.com/blog/can-i-live-in-my-static-caravan.php)
pay to check your local Council's Development Plan online and chat with a Development officer for the lowdown before you jump.
You wonder why Builders have to charge what they do eh?
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Wont quote them all as similar comments in each. The power will just be moved to a pole on the property it is all underground already would work something out for caravan. No water meter here so that part is not an issue either. We do know some builders so will have a chat to them about the demolition side. I could do it myself for much less.
Vitarajaycoswiftoutback we are on 8 acres and have considered that option of building on another spot on the property but there is not really anywhere that allows us to build and still be near current sheds and not lose land space for the horses. I know you would think you gain it back when knocking down the current house but the only real paddock that we could put it in we wouldn't get that space back fully.
Prodigyrf I see you posted about caravan we have already met with council and yes you have to apply and pay small fee but in this instance they will let you live in a van on your property. The town planner at council was great the building department guy not so much
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Our posts crossed so sounds like you're already clued up with the cara permit. To get around the toilet hire you could try and source the cheapest van with a shower and toilet and that might satisfy Council. You can always water the garden with the grey water and bury the dunny stuff although naturally you'll be disposing of it in an appropriate sewer point ;) The builder will be charging you for an onsite toilet as well remember so you might come to an agreement with him re extra pump out cost.
Don't believe all that baloney about relevant experience, etc for demolition as it's all specific licences now and most licensed builders like me don't have demo certification, largely because there's no point if you're not seriously geared up for it. We call in the licensed specialists.
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Depending on where you are and your local councils will have an effect on how easy and cost effective is getting rid of or removing the current house. Some councils make it very hard to relocate a house within the area, if this is the case IMO your better off advertising it as free for removal or looking at demolishing it.
For accommodation I'd look at a van and selling it later or alliteratively maybe a local CV
where you could hire a cabin for a while may suit.
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Our posts crossed so sounds like you're already clued up with the cara permit. To get around the toilet hire you could try and source the cheapest van with a shower and toilet and that might satisfy Council. You can always water the garden with the grey water and bury the dunny stuff although naturally you'll be disposing of it in an appropriate sewer point ;) The builder will be charging you for an onsite toilet as well remember so you might come to an agreement with him re extra pump out cost.
Don't believe all that baloney about relevant experience, etc for demolition as it's all specific licences now and most licensed builders like me don't have demo certification, largely because there's no point if you're not seriously geared up for it. We call in the licensed specialists.
Worst case scenario for that there is a dump point in town. Might have to go and speak to the local hire place and see what their costs are like. If we have to pay high amount for demolition then that will put the build back more. That is why we were thinking of advertising it the guy at council asked if we had thought about doing that.
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Definitely try and find someone to remove it for nix and you might start advertising on Gumtree or the like to test the waters bearing in mind a taker might have some considerable lead time themselves.
I see you've discovered the different personalities in Council. Building tech guys are often the grumpy ones vs the people personages in Planning but not always. Just remember, complete calm and bulk sucking up no matter how much you want to take a poke at some of them ;D
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Definitely try and find someone to remove it for nix and you might start advertising on Gumtree or the like to test the waters bearing in mind a taker might have some considerable lead time themselves.
I see you've discovered the different personalities in Council. Building tech guys are often the grumpy ones vs the people personages in Planning but not always. Just remember, complete calm and bulk sucking up no matter how much you want to take a poke at some of them ;D
Yes I was very nice and didn't come back with any smart a*#e comments when I asked can it be any builder and he said "oh do you know a builder do you" like I wouldn't know a single one I said "oh yep plenty" and just smiled he couldn't tell me the answer to that. That is why we went and had a meeting with them as we wanted to get off on the right foot with council and know what we had in store as we wont be looking to build until next year but we want to be as organised as possible.
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Hi folks I know this is not specifically camping but it could be an extended period of camp type living for us. We have in the pipeline getting rid of our current house and building on the land we are on. Just wondered if there are any swaggers with experience in this. We are considering putting the current house for sale for removal at buyers expense instead of having to get it demolished.
Then we have the issue of where are we going to live, we are tossing up on a caravan here on the property but what are peoples thoughts or if you have had experience yourself as far as toilet/shower. Ideally we will be staying here in some capacity as the horses are here and don't want to be travelling each day or paying rent somewhere if we can help it. We do not currently have a caravan so unsure if we factor in the cost of purchasing a cheap van or hire something long term. Have not found out if there is anywhere locally who hires the toilet/shower units and don't know what the cost of those would be like depending on the time of year I would be happy to just put up a temporary "shed" and use the camp shower.
My boss has bought one pf the portable toilets used on building sites for use on his farm. He gets a company to empty it out each month but you might need it more regular, if you put it near the cara and all under a temp roof then nobody gets wet doing the midnight run
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My boss has bought one pf the portable toilets used on building sites for use on his farm. He gets a company to empty it out each month but you might need it more regular, if you put it near the cara and all under a temp roof then nobody gets wet doing the midnight run
Yes I like that part of thinking though knowing I am getting a new house at the end I will take an umbrella if need be :-) But it does seem like it might be the way to go if the cost is not too high. We have hired them before when we have had parties here as we are on tank water and it can just work out easier to have the toilet out where the party is.
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Something like this would be an make sense to live in, and you could sell it when done for at least half what you paid to create a fast sale.
http://www.caravancampingsales.com.au/buy/private/SSE-AD-3219950/1985-Hallmark-grand-delux?cr=6&category=caravans&psq=%28%28%28%28%28%28SiloType%3D%5BDealer%20Near%20New%5D%7CSiloType%3D%5BDealer%20Used%5D%29%7CSiloType%3D%5BPrivate%20Used%5D%29%26State%3DVictoria%29%26%28Category%3DCaravans%26SubCategory%3DCaravan%29%29%26Service%3D%5BCaravancampingsales%5D%29%26SaleStatus%3D%5BFor%20Sale%5D%29&pso=0&pss=Price (http://www.caravancampingsales.com.au/buy/private/SSE-AD-3219950/1985-Hallmark-grand-delux?cr=6&category=caravans&psq=%28%28%28%28%28%28SiloType%3D%5BDealer%20Near%20New%5D%7CSiloType%3D%5BDealer%20Used%5D%29%7CSiloType%3D%5BPrivate%20Used%5D%29%26State%3DVictoria%29%26%28Category%3DCaravans%26SubCategory%3DCaravan%29%29%26Service%3D%5BCaravancampingsales%5D%29%26SaleStatus%3D%5BFor%20Sale%5D%29&pso=0&pss=Price)
Then all you need is a bathroom.
If you can find it, some hire companies have ensuite type units with a shower, toilet and basin in one room - though the ones I have used went into sewerage. Would be much more comfortable for a long stretch.
Worst comes to worse use a camping potty and regular trips to the local dump point.
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Something like this would be an make sense to live in, and you could sell it when done for at least half what you paid to create a fast sale.
http://www.caravancampingsales.com.au/buy/private/SSE-AD-3219950/1985-Hallmark-grand-delux?cr=6&category=caravans&psq=%28%28%28%28%28%28SiloType%3D%5BDealer%20Near%20New%5D%7CSiloType%3D%5BDealer%20Used%5D%29%7CSiloType%3D%5BPrivate%20Used%5D%29%26State%3DVictoria%29%26%28Category%3DCaravans%26SubCategory%3DCaravan%29%29%26Service%3D%5BCaravancampingsales%5D%29%26SaleStatus%3D%5BFor%20Sale%5D%29&pso=0&pss=Price (http://www.caravancampingsales.com.au/buy/private/SSE-AD-3219950/1985-Hallmark-grand-delux?cr=6&category=caravans&psq=%28%28%28%28%28%28SiloType%3D%5BDealer%20Near%20New%5D%7CSiloType%3D%5BDealer%20Used%5D%29%7CSiloType%3D%5BPrivate%20Used%5D%29%26State%3DVictoria%29%26%28Category%3DCaravans%26SubCategory%3DCaravan%29%29%26Service%3D%5BCaravancampingsales%5D%29%26SaleStatus%3D%5BFor%20Sale%5D%29&pso=0&pss=Price)
Then all you need is a bathroom.
If you can find it, some hire companies have ensuite type units with a shower, toilet and basin in one room - though the ones I have used went into sewerage. Would be much more comfortable for a long stretch.
Worst comes to worse use a camping potty and regular trips to the local dump point.
Yes that is sort of what I am thinking and had wondered if others had used different options. I am watching a few on ebay and we have some time to look there are similar on there for a bit less. :-)
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If you do go that way, consider putting in a slab that will go under van and annex. You want the annex floor to be a bit above ground level for when it rains, as well as level surface making a big difference for everyday life. Under the van makes it easier to manage long grass, bugs, snakes etc. Maybe in a location where you could use a slab in future. If not a slab, at the very least a serious level site with fine blue metal and watch your drainage.
This will be home for the best part of a year if you are like most builds. So make it comfortable. Thinking of true nomads like BIL and how they make a CP site work as home for a month or more at a time.
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If you do go that way, consider putting in a slab that will go under van and annex. You want the annex floor to be a bit above ground level for when it rains, as well as level surface making a big difference for everyday life. Under the van makes it easier to manage long grass, bugs, snakes etc. Maybe in a location where you could use a slab in future. If not a slab, at the very least a serious level site with fine blue metal and watch your drainage.
This will be home for the best part of a year if you are like most builds. So make it comfortable. Thinking of true nomads like BIL and how they make a CP site work as home for a month or more at a time.
Yes thanks for that info the ground is fairly level but could look at putting something down. If we happen to take down the old garage first we could use that slab if the new shed isn't up yet but otherwise I am sure we can sort something for underneath it.
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If it was my place.... i'd build a shed first up (one to keep for later), add some sort of temporary toilet and shower set up on the back of it after it's been approved, wire up some lights and power points then move into it. If you haven't had interest in giving the house away (advertise it before you build the shed), then get it demolished and build the new place.
SIL sort of did this on their property up at Gympie, though they didn't need to remove an existing house. They built the shed and lived in it for about 7 years, didn't inform the council just did it like many other people do on their properties. They had a composting toilet and a dodgey shower set up that drained the water out into their garden, lived like that for ages. Eventually they added a half decent shower and toilet room onto the shed, then eventually when they had the funds they got a builder to build them a new house on the block. Sometimes it's easier to not tell the council everything you are doing (ie: where you plan to live), though i'm sure others might have horror stories of nasty neighbours dobbing them into the council etc.
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If it was my place.... i'd build a shed first up (one to keep for later), add some sort of temporary toilet and shower set up on the back of it after it's been approved, wire up some lights and power points then move into it. If you haven't had interest in giving the house away (advertise it before you build the shed), then get it demolished and build the new place.
SIL sort of did this on their property up at Gympie, though they didn't need to remove an existing house. They built the shed and lived in it for about 7 years, didn't inform the council just did it like many other people do on their properties. They had a composting toilet and a dodgey shower set up that drained the water out into their garden, lived like that for ages. Eventually they added a half decent shower and toilet room onto the shed, then eventually when they had the funds they got a builder to build them a new house on the block. Sometimes it's easier to not tell the council everything you are doing (ie: where you plan to live), though i'm sure others might have horror stories of nasty neighbours dobbing them into the council etc.
No real neighbours here and the ones we have are great. If we can afford to will build the shed first that will replace the current falling down one. Which will give us more storage. Council are aware of our plans but whether they show up to check what we are doing. Problem is if there is no interest from someone to purchase the property then the cost of demolition will push our build date back a lot.
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Id just rock up at the local council buildingz in your Yfronts with a towel and a bar of soap with the family in tos if tbey give you sbit.
No oermit required for a composting toilet
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Get a van and just take a dump on ya nieghbours lawn when your dogs do? Problem solved :angel: :cheers:
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No Councils won't wear any fixed building as they know owners may want to live in them so only storage sheds and temp toilets for building.
Councils all have differing opinions. We built a 9m x 4.5m permanent shed with ablutions and all the council wanted was a smallish bond that was rsfunded on the completion of the house, but it was dependant on new plans being in for approval.
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No real neighbours here and the ones we have are great. If we can afford to will build the shed first that will replace the current falling down one. Which will give us more storage.
Hi Nay
I agree with you & what Rumpig & others have said - demolish the existing shed, extra slab down then put in as big a shed as you can afford - 6x6 / 6x9?, with permanent power going to it, park your CT / c'van inside, porta-potti in the corner behind a curtain, lean-to out the back with a HotTap or similar shower unit in it & you should be fairly comfy.
Would you be able to set-up some sort of dump point into your existing septic system while building is under way?
Alternatively, with 8 acres & good neighbours :D, dig a series of nice deep holes down the back under the fruit trees, empty the porta-potti every few days, foot of dirt back in on top till that hole is full & repeat :D
With regard to the existing house - there are "agents" / yards (sorry, can't think of proper word) that sell old houses for relocating to your block. Have a chat to some of them as they may buy it off you or possibly even take it to their yard & sell it on consignment for you? May noy work but worth a try!
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This has been an interesting read, specifically because of the possibke interactions with local authorities.
I know up here in Mackay they were like dictators a couple of years ago when the place was booming, now that its collapsed they realize they should've been more user friendly because developers left in drove & building approvals are down up to 80% some months. Also it's the norm for people on acreage up here to build a shed & live in it whilst building a house. The only requirement is it must comply with the BCA with regards to amenities & obviously be cyclone rated.
Sometimes people in council/govt jobs take it to seriously
Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
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As Fizzie said check out a home relocation mob. They generally will buy houses. No idea where you are based but here is one eg in SEQ
http://www.grahamremovalhomes.com.au/about.html (http://www.grahamremovalhomes.com.au/about.html)
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Good chance that it may be different in your state, but in SA it's not that easy offloading an old transportable house, unless you find someone who hasn't done their homework.
I looked at grabbing one and putting it on a block of land I have to use it as a weekender. Unfortunately it doesn't matter how old the transportable house is it must comply to current building standards if relocating it to a new site. When I looked at what was involved to do this it appeared a headache and a good way to create a potential money pit. When seeking advise the phrase 'how long is a piece of string?' was often quoted...
I quickly realised why there were so many old transportable buildings for sale for next to nothing, or in some cases offered for free. I decided it was probably easier to build / buy new than try and restore and make comply an old building.... that at the end of the day would still be an old building.
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rotare is spot on with old houses as all States and their Councils will make any home have to comply with the current Building Code of Australia with its associated Australian Standards. That will require an Engineer's inspection and report for starters. By the time you add removal and re-siting costs it's hardly worthwhile and that's why I suggested you start advertising now to test the market and see if you can possibly avoid the demolition cost.