MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: mr_hilux10 on February 21, 2015, 11:22:40 PM
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Reading an article which was headlining news.com.au by the way,story about Glenn on a shooting Safari in south africa 7 years ago which was/is perfectly legal by the way, has got the left wing grass smoking dopes up in arms
As a responsible hunter, it enrages me the negative comments people put up and bias journalism that we are expected to swallow
He has now listed an apology on twitter for this, can someone please explain to me why he has to apologize? ??
Would be interested in other comments
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No ****ing responsible hunter would kill an elephant. They are endangered. Full stop. None of the animals shot were for eating. As an responsible human I'm going to smoke some grass now and you can go **** yourself
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The news is covering non stop this morning. Must be a slow news day. It was eight years ago who cares. And for all the nutters on social media saying they are going to stop donating to the McGrath foundation, well I hope you never see one of your loved ones suffer from cancer
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I'd rather smoke pot than kill for kicks, sorry not my cup of tea.
But ... why has the media decided to dig this up ? It happened a few years ago, probably around the time that McGrath lost his wife to cancer. Glen stated that it was all above board, yet in hindsight he regrets doing so. EOS.
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Typical beat up again on law abiding hunters and gun owners.
Why is there less of an issue made when PEOPLE are murded by CRIMINALS with ILLEGAL guns.
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If he was on a legal hunt and did nothing against the law he has nothing to apologise for as far as I'm concerned. The fact people might not like his choice of past time / what he did is there own problem. It's up to the government of that country to outlaw the hunting of those animals if they are so endangered, so whilst it's a legal thing to do people will still do it.
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The elephants that get shot by responsible hunters are chosen by the rangers for culling as part of the herd management.
They are either old, rogue, injured or need to be culled to stop inbreeding.
They pay a Shitload to the government / park management, the sort of money that keeps the conservation programs going.
Do I agree with it - NO
Do I understand why they sell this service to fund the conservation - YES.
Did anyone watch the SBS show "Living with the enemy"
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Another trial by social media. He did something legal that he now regrets. Get over it.
Its not something I would do personally. Most people I know who have shot an elephant feel huge regret afterwards. And I know a few professional hunters in Africa including one, who shot his first and only one twenty odd years ago, cried after he did it, and has never wanted to do it again. He thought he'd really get a thrill, but experienced the complete opposite.
I get the idea of hunting for eating, but not the thrill of trophy shooting.
I took part in a government conservation cull (of buck) in Africa when I was 18. Put me off for life. There was no finesse or skill. Find a her, drive up in a land-cruiser, pick a target, shoot, load onto the back of a 40ton truck. Repeat for 3 days. Bloodbath
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The elephants that get shot by responsible hunters are chosen by the rangers for culling as part of the herd management.
They are either old, rogue, injured or need to be culled to stop inbreeding.
They pay a ****load to the government / park management, the sort of money that keeps the conservation programs going.
Do I agree with it - NO
Do I understand why they sell this service to fund the conservation - YES.
Did anyone watch the SBS show "Living with the enemy"
That could for some humans too :angel:
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No ****ing responsible hunter would kill an elephant. They are endangered. Full stop. None of the animals shot were for eating. As an responsible human I'm going to smoke some grass now and you can go **** yourself
You gibberer - give yourself an upper cut. That tone is not helpful to the discussion
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For what it is worth, in my mind. Glen has done nothing wrong, and has no reason to give an apology to anyone . Other than to his own conscience , and only if he feel the need.
Maybe he should start an Australian Big Game shooting business and start shooting/culling some of the big crocodiles that are hounding the Northern waterways of Australia.
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He is weak as, that's only my opinion and this is further illustrated in his response where he claims " I was going thorough a tough time in my life" .
So he introduced his wife's death to the story, so any reference to the breast cancer fund ..he has introduced..
I reckon the elephant was having a tough time too.
As stated not illegal at all.... but I can tell you an elephant does not shoot back ..he could have paid the money to have it relocated.. I personally hope it rides him for the rest of his life, pulling the trigger an animal like that is just abhorrent no matter how you try to justify it.
He might as well fight a 5 year old and claim a first round knock out...
I own guns , so im not anti guns ..I,m just anti weak people with guns. he prob drove out their in the air con ..where they had chased that thing all day and corralled it into a corner for the big white hunter to shoot it in the head at 75-100 mtrs ...I real hunter hey.
just plain and simply weak as IMHO.
Jet ;D
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A lot of it has to do with the perception of what is right and wrong.
How many of those people who are having a go, are the same people who will call for killing sharks so we can swim in the ocean? Dont say you only want nets and not culling. Nets kill sharks a slow painful death, along with the by-catch (Dolphins/whales/egt's). But that's OK?
How many of those people kill mice/rats in their home? Is that OK?
Does it just mean that if an animal disrups our lifestyle it is ok to kill it?
What is acceptable to hunt and kill and what isn't?
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Getting some pretty strong responses here!
It wasn't illegal.
Only he has to deal with his conscious.
What's with the big media beat up?
who's really behind this getting out there now and why?
Beware the power of the media!
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What is acceptable to hunt and kill and what isn't?
that's what this comes down to in the end, peoples personal opinion of what's ok to kill in this world. For me all Glenn has done wrong here IMHO is bring his and Jane's battle with cancer into the equation as an excuse for doing it.
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Its not hunting ... you hunt for food.... its shooting when you shoot things for fun...
Each to their own all cool I,m happy with my opinion and its not based on the media its based on my beliefs and I,m happy if others feel differently. ;D ;D
If he truly thinks he did nothing wrong then man up and don't apologise, to me just shows he is even weaker, you did it ..its either wrong in which case apologise and maybe donate some funds to the save the elephant fund ..or man up and say .."you know what I did nothing wrong". at least it would show some conviction....either way
A half baked 50/50 apology is just more weakness IMHO.
But hey lets all blame the media/breast cancer and everything else for his decision ...
I strongly disagree that people should stop donating to breast cancer , that's just punishing more innocent people who need help..
Jet ;D
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:cheers: Jet.
I'm with you. My thoughts exactly.
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Its not hunting ... you hunt for food.... its shooting when you shoot things for fun...
Jet ;D
and there's you personal belief getting into your argument Theo, some people hunt purely for trophies also, just look at the shows on telly based around taxidermy etc. whilst I don't like what he choose to do, he didn't break any laws and should tell the media to GGF IMHO.
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My main concern is doing the hunting in Zimbabwe.
They haven't had a good record in land management and conservation since Mugabe went rogue. Would be worried that would be seeking dollars at the expense of the animals.
Also agree with Jet, unless it is necessary for pest control, shoot for food.
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rednecks........full stop
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Yeah. think Jet has it covered well and truly.
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The meat does not go to waste. It is used by the lodge , workers or donated to local villages. The money and the meat help the locals , so for them it's a win/win situation. Lodges also employ a lot of locals as trackers , porters, cleaners , cooks , gardeners , the list goes on. Without a job how many of these people would go poaching for bush meat ? :cheers:
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FFS you guys criticizing it. Look up the stats on how many animals are in countries in Africa that have banned hunting, compared to those that promote it, you will be surprised.
If it wasn't for hunting, NONE of us would be here today. It is a necessary and does more to help the environment and native wildlife(in this country) than you realise.
Why some people put more value on one animal or another is ridiculous. If it was hunted legally it was for a reason, they also utilise the meat over there from probably 95% of the animals, if not more.
No wonder society these days is the way it is, rooted!
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Brett Lee now drawn into it...
UPDATE: Former Australian cricketer Brett Lee is the latest sporting casualty to be dragged into a social media storm over hunting photos.
Another image emerged online today after yesterday’s backlash against Glenn McGrath when photos emerged of him hunting African animals on safari in 2008.
The latest picture shows Lee with McGrath around a dead bleeding animal hanging off the back of a vehicle and two children posing in the photo.
One of the children appears to be holding the dead animal’s head up.
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Brett Lee now drawn into it...
UPDATE: Former Australian cricketer Brett Lee is the latest sporting casualty to be dragged into a social media storm over hunting photos.
Another image emerged online today after yesterday’s backlash against Glenn McGrath when photos emerged of him hunting African animals on safari in 2008.
The latest picture shows Lee with McGrath around a dead bleeding animal hanging off the back of a vehicle and two children posing in the photo.
One of the children appears to be holding the dead animal’s head up.
Yep the animal is a deer a $&@%en feral animal. I hope more sporting stars take up the challenge and take to removing these ferals from our country.
I am with jet, disappointed he used some softcock excuse. Unfortunately as the above story and twits on Twitter that are commenting he has no chance of any logical explanation. Because the fluffy animal lovers and vegans abhor any volience towards furry things.
Morally I am against hunting elephants and other native animals to a country. Ferals ye ha go to town.
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FFS you guys criticizing it. Look up the stats on how many animals are in countries in Africa that have banned hunting, compared to those that promote it, you will be surprised.
If it wasn't for hunting, NONE of us would be here today. It is a necessary and does more to help the environment and native wildlife(in this country) than you realise.
Why some people put more value on one animal or another is ridiculous. If it was hunted legally it was for a reason, they also utilise the meat over there from probably 95% of the animals, if not more.
No wonder society these days is the way it is, rooted!
wow ..take chill pill mate ..comments like yours only serve to have these threads closed ..More than happy to hear your side/interpretation/beliefs on the matter and it is equally as valid as mine but maybe the delivery needs to be adjusted.. just a bit ;D ;D
I will look past the tone and respond to the content, as I am sure it is the content that is more important to the discussion,
you may well be spot on in regards to countries managing their animal levels and doing it well etc, However this issue is not about the management practices or legality of the issue..its centred squarely against public perception, and perception weather right or wrong can equal fact.
If the picture was of him smoking pot in Amsterdam..equally as legal ..it would bring with it a level of criticism
He is a public figure who has courted the media through his very profitable career so he must know that even though it may be legal the consensus of many people may be that it is unacceptable from a high profile Australian.
In relation to putting more value on one animal over another , I guess that just comes down to individual perceptions and beliefs, I value the lives of some animals over some humans and would happily see plenty of people be traded for the lives of some our endangered species. But that's just me..
This is not a debate about about legality ..because the facts support the case that he was entitled and lawfully authorised to do what he did. So no hiding that fact.
Its debate about public perception and expectation.. and I am sure as his agent is advising him right now, he will try and play both sides of the coin ..as is evident by his very wishy washy statement.
You think his actions were fine ..then all good thats your right , I think he is weak as , 1 for doing it ..but 2 not for either backing his decision or making a full retarction and apology..you cant have it both ways...
Your response was prob a better starting point for his statement than his was ..If all the things you have mentioned are the facts of the situation, then he should just be transparent about the company he hunted with, their practices, what the meat was used for , how the animal was selected , why this particular animal was selected etc etc, coming out with a "hard time in my life " comment is just weak.
I for one would be happy to reconsider my point of view on the action undertaken if evidence to support the case is provided.. until then its just weak as.
The response will always remain very weak but the actions may be better explained with some of your evidence.
Jet ;D ;D
Sorry also add that dingoes comments on prev page are also very valid points that could be used to give clarity around the actions.. you guys should offer to help his agent as they are doing a pretty poor job of managing the public's perception of the issue right now.
Jet ;D ;D
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Morally I am against hunting elephants and other native animals to a country. Ferals ye ha go to town.
Why?
You do realise that we are in the minority of countries that don't hunt our native animals. USA, Canada Africa where hunting is huge and sustainable, they hunt native animals, as well as introduced species.
That elephant may well have been old and not able to breed anymore, injured, or an animal causing trouble around a village. They aren't hunted regularly and it is strictly controlled.
If the animals in Africa weren't of any value, bringing money into the country via hunting, then they would all be shot so the farmers could run cattle to make money. That is why it is a much needed and viable industry.
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About the only animal in plague proportions on this planet now is us humans.
None of these left of left people seem to have ever heard of contraception ... Next time I see a "greenie" with more than 2 kids at foot, I will applaud.
It took until about 1900 for the world's human population to reach 1 billion.
In my pre-teenage years, it reached about 2 billion.
By the late 1970s it reached close to 3 billion.
It is now around 7.3 billion.
People who live in the "first world" countries use and consume roughly 35 times each what individuals in the third world use and consume ...
About 650 million people in India have no access to any sanitary facilities of any description. All of India's holy rivers are so polluted that it would kill most westerners who even bathed in them.
As a young person I shot a lot of foxes, goats and roos (roos get into plague proportions in western Queensland due to their breeding mechanism and the availability of year round food and water ... ). These days, and for many years, I cannot see the "sport" in gratuitously killing another living creature. And no, I'm not a vegan. For medical reasons, I have to eat a high protein diet.
{Sorry, folks - End of rant ... }
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Why?
You do realise that we are in the minority of countries that don't hunt our native animals. USA, Canada Africa where hunting is huge and sustainable, they hunt native animals, as well as introduced species.
That elephant may well have been old and not able to breed anymore, injured, or an animal causing trouble around a village. They aren't hunted regularly and it is strictly controlled.
If the animals in Africa weren't of any value, bringing money into the country via hunting, then they would all be shot so the farmers could run cattle to make money. That is why it is a much needed and viable industry.
More solid points to be explored as a justification for the action . :cup:
Yes the media beats these things up but from I am reading here even both sides of the debate have valid reasons, those in the PRO camp have some very valid and important points that if better explored and publisied may well swing a vast majority of people towarsd that thought process. But the public needs facts these days or thier perception will rule.
If managed properly he could be painted as a national hero for uthanising a poor old elephant that was riddled with pain each day and unable to live .. and the locals kept alive in the hope someone would pay money to shoot it.. Glen offered to pay the money and had to shoot it himself as was custom for the payer who becomes the owner to shoot it.. Most aust know a story of uncle XYZ having to shoot the old cattle dog who was injured or dying ..its Australian folk law and something most Aussie would do in a heart beat.
so facts must be provided and logical arguments put forward or the public will just be lead by the voice of a few and this is always the 5%ers ..5% of hunters are fools and shoot anything that moves the other 95% think like people on here and provide logical reasons for animal management. :cup: 5% of do gooders run the argument .. the rest of us just want the facts
Jet ;D
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And the facts are... He shot an Elephant... Big deal.... have another beer and get over it,,, >:(
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And the facts are... He shot an Elephant... Big deal.... have another beer and get over it,,, >:(
I cant believe you put your beer down to add that enlightening piece of information to the thread.. its really helped as I was left wondering what it was he shot.. your ahead of the curve for sure...
Jet
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well someone has to say something intelligent, looks like you keep throwing petrol on the bloody thing to me.!
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well someone has to say something intelligent, looks like you keep throwing petrol on the bloody thing to me.!
its commonly referred to as a discussion mate ;D ;D
I am so happy you found the time to contribute , it certainly added some valuable points to the disscusion :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup:
jet ;D
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Shooting legally has a place & always will. I hold a gun licence yet only enjoy clay targets(not really into killing things), but all my mates hunt on a weekly basis and do so legally.
I wouldn't shoot an elephant but each to themselves, everyone these days seems to worry about stuff that they have no influence or control over.
Swannie
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Why?
You do realise that we are in the minority of countries that don't hunt our native animals. USA, Canada Africa where hunting is huge and sustainable, they hunt native animals, as well as introduced species.
That elephant may well have been old and not able to breed anymore, injured, or an animal causing trouble around a village. They aren't hunted regularly and it is strictly controlled.
If the animals in Africa weren't of any value, bringing money into the country via hunting, then they would all be shot so the farmers could run cattle to make money. That is why it is a much needed and viable industry.
moose I said morally, that's me. I accept that we poorly manage our wildlife and that includes natives. I have seen the way it is managed in the US and it's well done for the most part. I hunt ferals and that's it I realize there needs to be Roo culls and probably other species but I don't want to be part of it.
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The main problem is that he went to Zimbabwe. Hunting is sanctioned by a despot dictator and managed by a very corrupt agency. To say it's legal is a long stretch. The animals in Zimbabwe are almost decimated. The local villages are not allowed to hunt in fear of death because the management sell the animals to the highest bidder. I don't care if is McGrath or bob catter or the millionaire texan, anialation of any species for pleasure is just not right. I'm sure all you " I hunt I vote " mob will disagree but if you kill something just because it makes you smile you have got some serious mental illness. If you really want a trophy, take a picture
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Mmm... thought this was a forum for like minded camper trailer enthusiasts.
Seems anything but nowadays.
I hope a "verdict" is rapidly forthcoming to finalise this thread.
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Mmm... thought this was a forum for like minded camper trailer enthusiasts.
Seems anything but nowadays.
I hope a "verdict" is rapidly forthcoming to finalise this thread.
My thoughts exactly.
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As Moose has posted , the animals hunted are on a list , as to which they are too old , too many , or shouldn't even be there , and the guides know what is what , but it is a user pays , and the animal in question is going to be culled anyway , so win /win for the people around the area
We don't live in the area , i do believe they call it sustainable practice
Me, I think good on him, would I do it , probably not , but his choice
By the way I am a licensed shooter , and I pay for the privilege to hunt , legally and it's not cheap , but then again what is
Cheers
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Jet I have just read this thread completely all the way through, after posting and it's enlightening , if Glenn had of shot a cow in India , would he be eligible for cricket commentary over there, or here
I can understand the arguments , but it's a legal practice within that country
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Glenn McGrath, Brett Lee, what about Roy, Matty Hayden. There was a lot of shooters around in those days
This rant could go on for ever
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Glenn McGrath, Brett Lee, what about Roy, Matty Hayden. There was a lot of shooters around in those days
This rant could go on for ever
Yep and Roy was a huge fisherman. Wait until the Bambi brigade get into the photos of roy with a Barra
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The main problem is that he went to Zimbabwe. Hunting is sanctioned by a despot dictator and managed by a very corrupt agency. To say it's legal is a long stretch. The animals in Zimbabwe are almost decimated. The local villages are not allowed to hunt in fear of death because the management sell the animals to the highest bidder. I don't care if is McGrath or bob catter or the millionaire texan, anialation of any species for pleasure is just not right. I'm sure all you " I hunt I vote " mob will disagree but if you kill something just because it makes you smile you have got some serious mental illness. If you really want a trophy, take a picture
Yep I got the illness, I am quite please when I can nail a rabbit, fox or pig.
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After reading this thread today, I rang the mate up to organise a hunt next weekend.
Can't wait to get away. Only one thing better than camping, and that's going camping with a few rifles for a hunt!
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I'm not going to pass comments on some of the finer points of this discussion - leave it up to you fellas to debate.
But for me what I questioned is this - if someone shot a mouse from 100m I reckon that would be a pretty good achievement and something to brag about, but what skill is really involved in shooting an elephant at close range? It would be pretty hard to miss such a big animal, wouldn't it?
I'm no hunter of course, but maybe someone can clarify what exactly is the skill involved in such a kill?
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if someone shot a mouse from 100m I reckon that would be a pretty good achievement and something to brag about, but what skill is really involved in shooting an elephant at close range? It would be pretty hard to miss such a big animal, wouldn't it?
I'm no hunter of course, but maybe someone can clarify what exactly is the skill involved in such a kill?
Anyone can shoot at an elephant and hit it. If you don't kill it you end up with one very angry wounded animal, which is what ethical hunters detest. To kill it humanely you need to be close enough to be able to hit its brain, so taking a shot from 100m out plus is not an option. You need to get in pretty close and put your life at risk. You also need to use a very large calibre weapon with a high muzzle velocity. 600 and 700 Nitro Express are preferred rounds. They are called elephant guns. You could also use something like a 458 Winmag which are one of the more common large calibres. These arnt weapons for the novice hunter.
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Anyone can shoot at an elephant and hit it. If you don't kill it you end up with one very angry wounded animal, which is what ethical hunters detest. To kill it humanely you need to be close enough to be able to hit its brain, so taking a shot from 100m out plus is not an option. You need to get in pretty close and put your life at risk. You also need to use a very large calibre weapon with a high muzzle velocity. 600 and 700 Nitro Express are preferred rounds. They are called elephant guns. You could also use something like a 458 Winmag which are one of the more common large calibres. These arnt weapons for the novice hunter.
So on that basis to be a hunter of elephants you need to be either a crack shot, or a fast runner?
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Glenn McGrath has admitted he was going through "A Lot" after the loss of his wife.
For those that don't know much about losing someone to a disease like cancer here is some reading for you:
Here is the grief model we call the 7 Stages of Grief: Glenn has been criticised for level 4. Keep in mind that 6 out of 7 is a pretty good result in most places.
1. SHOCK & DENIAL-
You will probably react to learning of the loss with numbed disbelief. You may deny the reality of the loss at some level, in order to avoid the pain. Shock provides emotional protection from being overwhelmed all at once. This may last for weeks.
2. PAIN & GUILT-
As the shock wears off, it is replaced with the suffering of unbelievable pain. Although excruciating and almost unbearable, it is important that you experience the pain fully, and not hide it, avoid it or escape from it with alcohol or drugs.
You may have guilty feelings or remorse over things you did or didn't do with your loved one. Life feels chaotic and scary during this phase.
3. ANGER & BARGAINING-
Frustration gives way to anger, and you may lash out and lay unwarranted blame for the death on someone else. Please try to control this, as permanent damage to your relationships may result. This is a time for the release of bottled up emotion.
You may rail against fate, questioning "Why me?" You may also try to bargain in vain with the powers that be for a way out of your despair ("I will never drink again if you just bring him back")
4. "DEPRESSION", REFLECTION, LONELINESS AND KILLING SOMETHING IN AFRICA"-
Just when your friends may think you should be getting on with your life, a long period of sad reflection will likely overtake you. This is a normal stage of grief, so do not be "talked out of it" by well-meaning outsiders.
You may decide to travel to Africa and shoot a relatively harmless animal like an elephant. This will make you feel like a man for a few years until some mindless moron puts it on Facebook. Then when you feel like you have you apologise, pull up your big boy pants and tell the media to shove it.
Encouragement from others is not helpful to you during this stage of grieving.
During this time, you finally realize the true magnitude of your loss, and it depresses you. You may isolate yourself on purpose, reflect on things you did with your lost one, and focus on memories of the past. You may sense feelings of emptiness or despair. Just sit back, drink scotch and smoke cigars, then stub the cigar butts out in the elephant foot ashtray. Except for your umbrella stand, ashtray and gun rack made from the tusks, all you have left is memories and the desire to wear pink.
5. THE UPWARD TURN-
As you start to adjust to life without your dear one, your life becomes a little calmer and more organized. Your physical symptoms lessen, and your "depression" begins to lift slightly.
6. RECONSTRUCTION & WORKING THROUGH-
As you become more functional, your mind starts working again, and you will find yourself seeking realistic solutions to problems posed by life without your loved one. You will start to work on practical and financial problems and reconstructing yourself and your life without him or her.
7. ACCEPTANCE & HOPE-
During this, the last of the seven stages in this grief model, you learn to accept and deal with the reality of your situation. Acceptance does not necessarily mean instant happiness. Given the pain and turmoil you have experienced, you can never return to the carefree, untroubled YOU that existed before this tragedy. But you will find a way forward.
You will start to look forward and actually plan things for the future. Eventually, you will be able to think about your lost loved one without pain; sadness, yes, but the wrenching pain will be gone. You will once again anticipate some good times to come, and yes, even find joy again in the experience of living.
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So on that basis to be a hunter of elephants you need to be either a crack shot, or a fast runner?
The people from the sub-continent (India and Sri Lanka, not Africa) that have shot elephant that I know and have hunted here with are definitely not fast runners!
The culture is different there, 60 people a year are killed by rogue elephant in sri lanka. These elephants are usually older males that can travel large distances in a night, 30 or 40 km in search of easy food. In a natural system they would die from malnutrition, but now they have access to planted crops. Farmers want to protect their crops and die in the process.
Now the average Sri Lankan, or Indian doesn't have access to firearms. Its the police, or army that have them, but even then often not big enough to deal with the "problem" at hand. Quite often, the police and army don't even have the fuel for vehicles to go out to patrol and protect locals from wildlife, or often even a working vehicle. Most of the Money paid by expats and others in these circumstances filters down into the local community, even if by indirect means.
I cant speak on what happens in Africa but they have some good long distance runners there.
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Mouse
Height 7.5 – 10 cm, tail 5-10 cm
Weight 10-25g
Reach 5 cm
Speed 13 Km/h
Eyesight excellent
Smell excellent
Hearing excellent
Intelligence does well in mazes, not much else
Defences size or rather lack thereof, speed
Calibre air rifle and above
Best approach doesn’t matter
Threat assessment virtually non-existant
No skill factor - you shoot mouse from 10m using shotgun more than one shot
Low skill Factor – you shoot mouse from 25m using shot gun one shot
Moderate skill Factor – you shoot mouse from 75m using .22 rimfire benchrest one shot
High skill factor – you shoot mouse from 100m standing unsupported using air rifle one shot
Kudos – you shot a mouse, so what
Elephant
Height 3 – 4 metres
Weight 4,000 – 7,000 Kg
Reach Ground level to 7m
3.5m in front
Speed 18 kmh
Eyesight poor in bright light, better in low light
Smell excellent
Hearing excellent
Intelligence cetacean level
Defences size, speed, weight,
Trunk can lift 350 kg
Calibre Legal minimum .375
Best approach down wind, open savannah, better than legal minimum calibre, with back-up
Threat high to extremely high. Goes to extremely high if your first shot just pisses him off, it’s dusk, you’re downwind, you’re in broken ground and have no back-up
No skill Factor – you shoot sick elephant from 100m from vehicle using elephant gun benchrest with back-up more than one shot
Low skill Factor – you shoot well elephant from 100m from vehicle using elephant gun benchrest with back-up one shot
Moderate skill Factor – you shoot well elephant from 50m on foot using .600 Nitro Express with back-up one shot
High skill factor – you brain shoot well elephant from 30m on foot using .275 Rigby one shot
Kudos – you shot an elephant - now the fun begins
You take a picture and post it on facebook
You achieve instant notoriety
The twitsphere goes into meltdown as all those holding different views on
animal rights/hunting/ethics/conservation put forward their own personal it’s
only logical/moral/ethical/unarguable two cents worth
You retreat for peace into your usual sanctum – a quiet corner of the 'net
where a forum dedicated to your hobby (other than shooting) exists
Shock, horror debate rages even there. In desperation you turn to your one
true friend – your mum. As usual she gives you sage advice – F*** it son, it’s
only social media, give it 24 hours, 48 max, and they’ll be all over something
else
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https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10155093241270324 (https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10155093241270324)
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I grew up in Zimbabwe and am no stranger to both ends of a rifle.
Killing animals can be easy for some and abhorrent for others.
Sometimes there is reason, sometimes there isn't.
The only thing I know for certain in this instant is that the media is SELLING a story.
We usually only get half the facts or insinuations at best.
We may never know the true facts and it is not our place to judge them anyway.
Surely the knob who risks peoples lives by drink driving is far worse than Glenn paying a legal organisation in a country where it is legal where we don't know the surrounding facts.
There has been some rigorous debate and opinion and while that can be healthy I think we can all agree that regardless of right or wrong what he did was legal and this should not in any way deter from the Mcgrath foundation.
=Classic]http://shoppink.mcgrathfoundation.com.au/prodetail.asp?proid=70948&tags[]=Classic (http://shoppink.mcgrathfoundation.com.au/prodetail.asp?proid=70948&tags[)
I think we should all by at least 2 x stubby coolers for our campers and donate what we can to this VERY worthy cause.
"To Jane"
Remember there are far more important things to worry about most of the time.
Cheers
Brian
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I'm not a drinker so i bought the Cap.! :cup:
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Regarding the title of this thread,
As a Paramedic I see some Shocking stuff from time to time.
In the real world this is not exactly shocking, far from it.
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I grew up in Zimbabwe and am no stranger to both ends of a rifle.
Killing animals can be easy for some and abhorrent for others.
Sometimes there is reason, sometimes there isn't.
The only thing I know for certain in this instant is that the media is SELLING a story.
We usually only get half the facts or insinuations at best.
We may never know the true facts and it is not our place to judge them anyway.
Surely the knob who risks peoples lives by drink driving is far worse than Glenn paying a legal organisation in a country where it is legal where we don't know the surrounding facts.
There has been some rigorous debate and opinion and while that can be healthy I think we can all agree that regardless of right or wrong what he did was legal and this should not in any way deter from the Mcgrath foundation.
=Classic]http://shoppink.mcgrathfoundation.com.au/prodetail.asp?proid=70948&tags[]=Classic (http://shoppink.mcgrathfoundation.com.au/prodetail.asp?proid=70948&tags[)
I think we should all by at least 2 x stubby coolers for our campers and donate what we can to this VERY worthy cause.
"To Jane"
Remember there are far more important things to worry about most of the time.
Cheers
Brian
Well said.
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Gratuitously killing any other living creature should never be regarded as trivial - be it a mouse, an elephant or a cockroach ...
Just IMNSHO.
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You gibberer - give yourself an upper cut. That tone is not helpful to the discussion
You mean that's not what you wanted to hear..
what you want a 1 sided argument only?
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Typical beat up again on law abiding hunters and gun owners.
Why is there less of an issue made when PEOPLE are murded by CRIMINALS with ILLEGAL guns.
I dont think there is. Surely you recall the saturation media coverage recently when a gunman took hostages in a cafe?
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This is like a pushbike VS cars thread, but with loaded weapons......
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Glenn McGrath, Brett Lee, what about Roy, Matty Hayden. There was a lot of shooters around in those days
This rant could go on for ever
I'm dissapointed that Paul Reiffel wasnt there.
Great headline
"McGarth goes hunting elephants with Reiffel" ;D ;D ;D
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I'm dissapointed that Paul Reiffel wasnt there.
Great headline
"McGarth goes hunting elephants with Reiffel" ;D ;D ;D
pisser ;D ;D
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Lmao
He may of had some of those old Pakistani players with him??
Washeacrim and neverbeenbehindbars
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Dam it they had to die at 1 stage or another , & they were to big to sit in a car . >:D
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wow ..take chill pill mate ..comments like yours only serve to have these threads closed ..More than happy to hear your side/interpretation/beliefs on the matter and it is equally as valid as mine but maybe the delivery needs to be adjusted.. just a bit ;D ;D
I will look past the tone and respond to the content, as I am sure it is the content that is more important to the discussion,
you may well be spot on in regards to countries managing their animal levels and doing it well etc, However this issue is not about the management practices or legality of the issue..its centred squarely against public perception, and perception weather right or wrong can equal fact.
If the picture was of him smoking pot in Amsterdam..equally as legal ..it would bring with it a level of criticism
He is a public figure who has courted the media through his very profitable career so he must know that even though it may be legal the consensus of many people may be that it is unacceptable from a high profile Australian.
In relation to putting more value on one animal over another , I guess that just comes down to individual perceptions and beliefs, I value the lives of some animals over some humans and would happily see plenty of people be traded for the lives of some our endangered species. But that's just me..
This is not a debate about about legality ..because the facts support the case that he was entitled and lawfully authorised to do what he did. So no hiding that fact.
Its debate about public perception and expectation.. and I am sure as his agent is advising him right now, he will try and play both sides of the coin ..as is evident by his very wishy washy statement.
You think his actions were fine ..then all good thats your right , I think he is weak as , 1 for doing it ..but 2 not for either backing his decision or making a full retarction and apology..you cant have it both ways...
Your response was prob a better starting point for his statement than his was ..If all the things you have mentioned are the facts of the situation, then he should just be transparent about the company he hunted with, their practices, what the meat was used for , how the animal was selected , why this particular animal was selected etc etc, coming out with a "hard time in my life " comment is just weak.
I for one would be happy to reconsider my point of view on the action undertaken if evidence to support the case is provided.. until then its just weak as.
The response will always remain very weak but the actions may be better explained with some of your evidence.
Jet ;D ;D
Sorry also add that dingoes comments on prev page are also very valid points that could be used to give clarity around the actions.. you guys should offer to help his agent as they are doing a pretty poor job of managing the public's perception of the issue right now.
Jet ;D ;D
I thought it worth pointing out that you can indeed pose 2 sides of the story
you can have "enjoyed" shooting an elephant (for want of a better word) 8 years ago.
an now have regret for the same.
surely a person can have a change in heart over time.
Ok he may appear to be having a bet each ways- but he did the act- no denying that
BUT
maybe mates getting together and organising something as mates should/ would in Australia and instead of going out on the boat for a fish, went to Africa.
Now to put that into perspective for a coastal dweller
Maybe 20 years ago you went out and caught a Marlin- weighted it and hung it on a wall
Now days that would be considered not done- but it was and still is legal as far as I know
At the time you were proud- the great white hunter
things in society change
we now see things way different to 8 years ago- I hate to say it but mostly media driven
I'm going to leave shooting elephants alone, and also sea kittens, couldn't hurt one of those.
http://features.peta.org/PETASeaKittens/ (http://features.peta.org/PETASeaKittens/)
look out you don't have any pics of a sea kitten being tortured, because you just never know whether that is acceptable in 8 years time :cheers:
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Why did the main stream media even pick this up? Is it because he is Glenn McGrath? Also with Brett Lee being dragged in kicking and screaming. I suppose that they will next be complaining about the kids being in the photo's as well?
There are hundreds/thousands of hunters who travel to Africa and pay big money to hunt in the Safari Parks. This money goes into the economy of the country that person is in. Management of the animals is conducted by the park so that they don't have over grazing and the best genes are used for the maintenance of the herds. Are there photos plastered across the media?
Nothing is wasted. The skin is taken off the animal and once cured goes back to the hunters country for mounting by a taxidermist there most of the times. The meat goes to the workers at the Safari Park for their families to eat, that is the tracker's and other workers.
What about here in Australia. These same people who bleat about hunting in state parks where the laws are different in each state, also go on about peoples rights and the legality of detention centre's for asylum seekers? After todays report from the Federal Government I don't have to say anymore on that.
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I dont think there is. Surely you recall the saturation media coverage recently when a gunman took hostages in a cafe?
Nah mate, that was terrorism.... One of the media's favorite subjects.
How many times lately do you turn on the morning news to hear that someone has been shot or stabbed (usually Sydney area, but we have our fair share lately around Brisbane). There is nothing more than a 15 second grab. Nowhere near the beat up this has received. Hence my comment.
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No ****ing responsible hunter would kill an elephant. They are endangered. Full stop. None of the animals shot were for eating. As an responsible human I'm going to smoke some grass now and you can go **** yourself
Although its not something i wanted to do when i went to Africa its not as simple as saying dont do it, its heavily controlled and you pay a huge price tag to shoot large game.
The money goes to conservation and quite often is part of a controlled cull to keep numbers at a environmentally viable level.
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I'm not bleeding heart liberal/greenie, I used to own guns and shoot. I'm an ex-Zambian with many friends who make still live there and some who make a living from hunting/conservation in Zambia.
It was an extremely silly decision by McGrath to do it and for him to support the wholesale slaughter that has been going on in Zimbabwe. Since 2007 there has been a drop of 41,536 elephants in Zimbabwe.
There has been some comment on here about the animal not going to waste, money back into conservation etc. That it was old/rogue/overpopulated but I doubt that is the case. Game management areas have been taken over and they are selling off licences to the highest bidder. Any money will have gone into the pockets of the owners. You are forgetting this is a country that is now the 2nd poorest on the earth where the average person lives on 35c a day and people are starving. Corruption there is rampant they will do anything for money whilst the ruling elite continue their excesses.
Mugabe is about to have his birthday party - costing $1m+ which all teachers in the country have been forced to pay $10 towards it. On his birthday menu: Five impalas will be roasted, two sables, two buffaloes, two elephants, and after these a lion will be butchered and served up, followed by a cake predicted to weigh 200lb.
There's no conservation or controlled hunting there at all. Since 2003 there have been documented mass migrations of elephants into Zambia to escape the killing in Zimbabwe. In 2013 poachers put cyanide in the water holes and killed 300 elephants, then the lions/hyenas and other animals that fed on them, and then all the other animals using the waterholes. January this year in Hwange they're about to sell 62 baby elephants @$60,000 each to France, the UAE and China. They got them after shooting to scare off the mothers, leaving the calves behind. One calf has already died, so they just went and got another one.
I'd wager that the someone paid someone some money and an animal was shot whether it was old/rogue/overpopulated or not. And I doubt there is unlikely to have been any thing given back to the local community.
Stupid decision by him ethically irrespective of the media beat up.
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^^^^^^^ :cup: :cup:
KB
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Mugabe is about to have his birthday party -
wonder what i should get him???
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wonder what i should get him???
I've got a good idea.................
:-X :-X :-X
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I am not into hunting or hurting animals, so I can't see the enjoyment one gets from it, but we are all different I guess
I would be more impressed if you shoot something with a bow and arrow and take it down! Not really that hard with a gun and very one sided!
Maybe we could invest in a scheme to cull the feral pigs that live up the cape, they are doing untold damage unabated, but shooting a pig is prolly not the adrenalin seekers high I suspect
What's next week social media beat up gonna be? :) :)
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I am not into hunting or hurting animals, so I can't see the enjoyment one gets from it, but we are all different I guess
I would be more impressed if you shoot something with a bow and arrow and take it down! Not really that hard with a gun and very one sided!
Maybe we could invest in a scheme to cull the feral pigs that live up the cape, they are doing untold damage unabated, but shooting a pig is prolly not the adrenalin seekers high I suspect
What's next week social media beat up gonna be? :) :)
Im a bow hunter and have been for over 30 years.
Most bowhunters (including myself) enjoy hunting pigs.
Personally I have tried every legal avenue to get pig hunting allowed up the Cape with absolutly no success.
I spent 1 full year phoning, mailing and emailing anyone and everyone that I thought could, would or might help. I had no luck whatsoever.
Bill
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Good on ya Glenn!
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Im a bow hunter and have been for over 30 years.
Most bowhunters (including myself) enjoy hunting pigs.
Personally I have tried every legal avenue to get pig hunting allowed up the Cape with absolutly no success.
I spent 1 full year phoning, mailing and emailing anyone and everyone that I thought could, would or might help. I had no luck whatsoever.
Bill
There is heaps of bowhunting pigs in the Cape, it's all about access to private property.
If you're talking about public land, which I think should be allowed, happens in other states with no problem and all over the USA, then if they allow it in the cape, they will have to all over Qld, which they unfortunately don't want.
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There is heaps of bowhunting pigs in the Cape, it's all about access to private property.
If you're talking about public land, which I think should be allowed, happens in other states with no problem and all over the USA, then if they allow it in the cape, they will have to all over Qld, which they unfortunately don't want.
Yes sir I know all about hunting private land up the Cape. I used to do it myself until the land changed owners and I could not afford to pay to lease the hunting rights.
And yes I am talking about public land.
Unfortunatly most of those who are in charge of public land up here do not believe recreational shooters will have any effect on the pig populations and think it will detour the public from coming to the Cape.
I hunted nearly every state in the USA, 80% of it was on public land.
Bill
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going back to the original thread.
glen makes his living by being public and therefore public perception is everything.
What goes on in Africa is called canned hunts, its not hunting its killing. Lions for instance are mostly hand raised and fed so they have no fear of humans. The lion lives until such a time as to when someone with enough money comes along, steps into the enclosed compound with a rifle and shoots it.
Hunting my arse pfffft
Glen your a retard
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There a bit tricky when there on the run..... ;D
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There a bit tricky when there on the run..... ;D
Double barrel 12 ga hammer gun with 16" barrels loaded with SG shot tends to be a good pig gun. They're dangerous mongrels of animals, specially in close scrub.
Way, way back I had a Baikal (licensed). Helped dissuade some thugs from whatever they were thinking of once when we lived a long way from anyone ...
They took one look and did the fastest U-turn you have ever seen when the flood lights came on and I stepped out of the shadows holding it downwards in a safety hold. I didn't even have time to get the number plate. Our abode was at the end of a 500m long rubble drive. It had a gate. They didn't get there by accident in the middle of the night
There had been two rapes and two houses burned down in our immediate area around that time.
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There a bit tricky when there on the run..... ;D
Balls of granite to take those on with a bow. Evil demonic things
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Lmao
He may of had some of those old Pakistani players with him??
Washeacrim and neverbeenbehindbars
You forgot macarsabitrusty
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well done baldheadedjit. have you ever used or thought about using a longbow? theres a few guys up here reckon compounds are cheating mind you as a rifle shooter the blackpowder boys tell me im cheating
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well done baldheadedjit. have you ever used or thought about using a longbow? theres a few guys up here reckon compounds are cheating mind you as a rifle shooter the blackpowder boys tell me im cheating
long Bow...? You kidding. Not Robin Hood you know...!
I don't mind cheating ;D
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Pig hunting with a bow. Man, you got some guts.
I know what these bastards can be like when they get cranky!
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(http://i696.photobucket.com/albums/vv328/hawks667/Misc%20Pics/never%20apologise_zpsjbvwagch.jpg) (http://s696.photobucket.com/user/hawks667/media/Misc%20Pics/never%20apologise_zpsjbvwagch.jpg.html)