MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Topender on March 06, 2014, 11:37:25 AM
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Ok I have my flame suit ready and before I get burnt to a crisp I thought I would post up my recent observation. So as some of you know I am not working at the moment (by choice), but I am starting to search for work. So yesterday I was reading the online news and read the story about the lady Publican who was apologising after she had her phone stolen and decided to ban all indigenous patrons until her phone was returned. http://www.smh.com.au/national/coolgardie-publican-deborah-ovens-apologises-for-ban-on-indigenous-customers-20140305-347ja.html (http://www.smh.com.au/national/coolgardie-publican-deborah-ovens-apologises-for-ban-on-indigenous-customers-20140305-347ja.html)
Now anyone can see that that is pretty wrong and not the right way to go about things, but I'm assuming she was fed up and probably wasn't thinking straight at the time. I consider myself open minded and have neighbours next door and across the road from me who are aboriginal and who are lovely. But and here is the big BUT.......
As I said I'm looking for work and not 2 minutes after reading an article like the one above I was looking through Seek and came across this http://www.seek.com.au/job/26131081 (http://www.seek.com.au/job/26131081) Isn't this double standards?........I know for a fact if the advert was the other way around or even aimed at a different minority group all hell would break out.
So my question although controversial is does racism go both ways? I in all honesty don't care about the job, I just thought it was "interesting". Don't shoot the messenger and I'm not trying to start anything.
Dave
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So my question although controversial is does racism go both ways?
of course it does.. you cant call them anything, but they can abuse hell out of you...
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The most simple, least controversial answer to you question is 'Yes'.
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I guess whenever you prefer one category of people over another you are unfair. The only justification is that sometimes it is necessary to discriminate for a group of people for a long term goal.
There is talk of preferring men in the selection of candidates for primary school teachers. This may be wrong but it might be justified on the basis of a more even mix in genders.
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Yes, of course. That goes with all the other 'isms' like sexism etc. Even 'lookism' where attractive people are employed plays a role. Just because they don't advertise it like this particular case, doesn't mean it doesn't apply...
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It is supposed to go both ways but it doesn't always unfortunately...
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I believe it does go both ways, and I love it when someone uses the line "you hate me because I'm <insert racial or sexual orientation here>" .... my usual answer is "No, I dislike you because you are a W**ker!" lol
I do believe that some companies have an indigenous policy that ensures the employment of indigenous people. Quite simple I see it that if the applicant is of equal quality (regardless of gender, race or sexual preference) then they get the job. Makes for good business management to me.
As a carpenter, I would happily employ anyone, as long as they have the right attitude and qualifications!
Cheers Chippy :D
FWIW the job add that you posted didn't actually state that the applicant need to be of Indigenous background :p
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Cheers Chippy :D
FWIW the job add that you posted didn't actually state that the applicant need to be of Indigenous background :p
In pretty big letters at the header of the add !!!
I don't agree with "selecting" a race of people for a job....if you have the qualifications, apply.....regardless of colour , race..
Have a friend who applied for a position.....5 jobs going....2 were "saved" for indigenous people (govt department, govt policy ??? ).....friend missed out ( apparently only just ), but no indigenous people applied....so only 3 people got put on ??
So......they really only wanted 3 people.......or because of their policy, they couldn't put 5 NON indigenous people on ??
Racism doesn't go both ways....when's the last time you heard of an indigenous person in the media being accused of racially slurring a "white" fella.....doesn't happen !!
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It didn't state it in the actual ad though ... Only in the heading !
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The Macquarie Dictionary defines racism as: "the belief that human races have distinctive characteristics which determine their respective cultures, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule or dominate others." And that definition could also be applied to religions too, but lets not go there please. Racial and religious discrimination is a world wide practice and I am glad it is much less of a problem in this country than in many other, where it will result in death and forced relocation's. Be happy we don't have to live with that. Not liking someone because of personality traits is one thing, and we all probably do it, but looking at someone and forming an opinion about them because they look different should be unacceptable. The reality is if you look into your families you will all find a branch of the tree that is of a different ethnicity. I have German, English, Irish in mine, and proud of it too.
:cheers:
James
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Great point James, and yes racism should not be tolerated and or accepted in this country.
Just for an experiment though it would be interesting to see what would happen if the add was changed to say "Caucasian" in the heading instead of indigenous? . I bet it would make for an interesting media storm..
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I'm not sure i will have to ring my mate at Lake Gregory ;D
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It is racist simply because it is choosing one race over another.
However, identifying positions for indigenous people is probably a good idea to try and get more employed.
I trained an aboriginal apprentice however he left at the end of year 3 as he was tired of being called a "white maggot f'er" by his community. Poor bugger was sobbing before he left. He knew he was screwed.
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It is racist simply because it is choosing one race over another.
However, identifying positions for indigenous people is probably a good idea to try and get more employed.
I trained an aboriginal apprentice however he left at the end of year 3 as he was tired of being called a "white maggot f'er" by his community. Poor bugger was sobbing before he left. He knew he was screwed.
Thats very sad to hear, some poeple are just destined to be doomed
Swannie
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I'm not sure i will have to ring my mate at Lake Gregory ;D
LOL............
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In all sorts of red tape and Govt paraphernalia I have filled out over the years I always wondered how different I would be treated if i ticked THAT box near the front.
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In all sorts of red tape and Govt paraphernalia I have filled out over the years I always wondered how different I would be treated if i ticked THAT box near the front.
You should just tick it next time and let us know what happens?
My bet is you get to retire early and live in a free house get cheap loan's and free KFC.. ;D ;D ;D Just kidding!!!!
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I have quite a few really good mates that are indigenous. Funniest bit is if you met any of them, you would not pick it in a million years.
Mate one, works in the city, government dept. He is uni educated, very smart bloke. His wife, indigenous also is so pissed that all of his employment is because of his Aboriginal heritage.
She thinks he should just get a job off his own merit and not pull the "black" card. Meanwhile, he is more like, I get a great wage, you and our Daughter have a roof over heads, so shut up will you!!!
There are plenty of positions available to this lands original occupants and their descendants.
Mate two, grew up in the UK, his Dad was a Pom, Mum Aussie, Grandmother indigenous. He has the thickest English accent its not funny, but the stuff he gets for free, i.e. dental, health etc etc is absolutely bullShit.
This sort of racism pisses me off !!!
and a family I know, Dad and three kids all have indigenous heritage, can take advantage of lots of assistance, but choose not to. They are all wrangers ;D
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It is racist simply because it is choosing one race over another.
However, identifying positions for indigenous people is probably a good idea to try and get more employed.
I trained an aboriginal apprentice however he left at the end of year 3 as he was tired of being called a "white maggot f'er" by his community. Poor bugger was sobbing before he left. He knew he was screwed.
yep up on our sites the communities refer to them as coconuts (brown on outside, white on inside), very disheartening for them and they've often said all they want is to get ahead but their families (extended in most cases) hold them back and make life hard when their home & unfortunately family plays a significant role in their life/upbringing/culture
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Hi,
Crumbs it goes all the way down to giving Land Rover drivers a hard time.
(But we can take it.)
cheers
p.s. 2 1/2 years in S.E Asia, and speaking a bit of the local dialect, yep, it is everywhere.
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I AM NOT A RACIST!
I hate everybody equally! ;D
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I AM NOT A RACIST!
I hate everybody equally! ;D
x 2
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In relation to the job advert in the OP, it has nothing to do with racism or even "positive discrimination" as it is sometimes called when applied to a minority, be it an ethnic, gender or whatever minority.
Without knowing anything about the particular job, I would hazard a guess that the company advertising the position is obligated to employ a percentage of indigenous workers as a condition of being granted a mining permit or something similar. It would be a government policy which had been offered as an incentive to gain the local indigenous community's acceptance to rip the minerals out of their country.
KB
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It will only spark outrage if you are disadvantaging a minority.
If you are disadvantaging the majority, then there will be no outrage.
I personally don't really have a problem with employers being selective, after all, they are paying for a service and if they want that person to have certain qualities then that's their choice. If they are limiting their labour pool then that's their problem.
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Only colour on here that matters is...... the colour of your canvass.. ;D ;D ;D ;D
Jet ;D ;D
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Perception:
*I'm proud to be black,
*I'm proud to be white,
Which is worse?
Neither and both, its perception based on what society has deemed to be acceptable. And let's face it, it honestly doesn't matter what color your skin is.
Cheers
Evo
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Well I work for an Aboriginal Corporation so I see it first hand. We have special exemptions etc so we can hire certain people. The racism is real. The thing is if they want to call me a white C^%T I call them strait back. Got to be here to see how that works though
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Only colour on here that matters is...... the colour of your canvass.. ;D ;D ;D ;D
Jet ;D ;D
Yep. Nice discussion so far guys. I do understand the need to employ indigenous folk and if you look at the bottom of the job add you will see they are an indigenous recruitment company. Other adds I have seen in the past have had a better way of going about the recruitment process ie) "We strongly encourage indigenous people to apply" or something along those lines. Most intelligent people can read between the lines of an add like that. Double standards.
Dave
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I have worked (on and off) on the APY Lands for 6 of the last ten years and not once have we ever been abused, but we know it happens. A nurse here was told the other day... 'you know whitefellas are like Toyotas. We wear 'em out and then get another one'. I know that's not abusive, as such, but gives an idea of a thought process. This particular nurse is pretty up front with the locals and they do take offence to it. One thing i learned quickly very early on in our time out here is that if you're good to a blackfella they are good back to you, but if you show aggression you get it back times 10.
Having said that, we happily came out here this time with our (then) 2 and 5 year olds for an adventure and experiences money can't buy and haven't looked back. We are back to the big smoke of Adelaide at the end of the year and will look back at our time on The Lands with good memories.
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Racism does go both/all ways. It is usually portrayed as whites being racist towards coloured people but is alive and well in most cultures & ethnic groups, and often against whites.
However, I don't see the job advert as racist. I see it as "positive discrimination" in an attempt to equalise the opportunities (long term) for a disadvantaged minority.
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yes
you cant call them anything, but they can abuse hell out of you.
I have worked with a lot of people and travelled a fair bit and there is racism in all places and people
do away with the all the departments to do with racism
spend the money on drs hospitals nurses etc
just my opinion
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There was a show on ABC or SBS last night about races changing their appearances.
An Indian women (dots not feathers) was saying that in Asia the whiter you are the higher cast you are and she was using a drug to make herself whiter. Also Asian people were having their eyelids changed, jaws cut and changed and bone around their eye sockets and cheek removed to give a chiselled appearance.
Get a life people.
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I get your point about the job add. And yes in certain dept they specifically say indig only or tick this box.
On the face of it it can seem unfair , but don't forget that prior to this there were bosses who refuse to employ blackfellas no matter how well qualified they were and would give the job to a white fella who was a poorer candidate.
So the govt had to put a stop to this so hence the % rule was introduced and personally I think it was a good idea as you can't tell me there are not good hard working well qualified indig people out there .
As Symon rightly said make no mistake private enterprise will still seek the best as their bottom $$ is on the line.
So I guess if the people who had the power 20 yrs ago were not discriminating then we would not have needed this mandate today. But that is nothing new as people abuse power the govt writes new laws and policy to overcome the abuse of power.
Prob is that like most ideas they have not revisited the policy in a long time and by not adjusting it they have over adjusted the pendulum and it is now leaning the wrong way.
Same as croc shooting .. Too many crocs so we shoot them , then not enough so we protect them , now too many again so we talk about shooting again and round and round we go.
There would be more deserving black fellas who have missed a job because they are black than those who have been handed one.
But I see your point , but remember change had to happen back then but I think it has happened and the playing field is now level so the policy should be reviewed to really allow indig people to stand as equalls in this great land we all share , govt wants full integration but their policies create division .
That's my breakfast smoko rant over lol
Jet ;D
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Unfortunately racism in this fine country is definitely a ONE WAY STREET
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Racism ?
Discrimination ?
Whatever it is it goes both ways.
Race, religion, gender and sexual persuasion all have stigmas attached. The viewpoint depends on which side of the divide one stands.
I think most people suffer from it to varying degrees.
Next question.
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G'day Lounge Lizards,
Have a look at this for a laugh. lol
https://www.youtube.com/embed/QmhQct1i2Rw (https://www.youtube.com/embed/QmhQct1i2Rw)
Regards,
RLI
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Well if you ask me, the government have created racism.
Why do they always ask what race you are when completing any government forms. Why should one race be entitled to some benefits/help ect and the other not, simply because they are a different race.
What's good for one, should be just as good for the other, regardless of where you were born.
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I don't think it works both way in all honesty, it can go both ways by definition but it doesn't. GraemeL the reason the hospitals and anything medical related ask race is because certain races are more susceptible to certain illnesses due to evolution of our immune systems (eg. Common cold on English settlers vs aboriginals when we first settled Australia) I think there is the good and bad of all types of people and the only thing I'm racist against is dole bludgers they need to bring back conscription I think to fix that problem doesn't matter what colour their skin is 6 months dole payments then no more if you want money here is your uniform and your life for the next 4 years
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I'm racist against is dole bludgers they need to bring back conscription I think to fix that problem doesn't matter what colour their skin is 6 months dole payments then no more if you want money here is your uniform and your life for the next 4 years
Hmmm, hope you are never over forty and are made redundant (like so many recently) as, on average, you will be out of work for more than six months. Is the ADF going to relocate established families?
KB
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I'm with Chippy76 on this one.
Austastar - now there is one case of justifiable discrimination/racism and you happen to pick it. >:D
Not to mention that I am boat person (parents were anyway), I am white, I am male, I am healthy (touch wood) and I am heterosexual - damned right there's discrimination and racism set against me. What hope do I have but to go bush and hopefully bump into some of you lot and have the chance to knock the froth off a couple around a campfire - oh did I mention I fish and I hunt and I eat meat ;D
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I'm with Chippy76 on this one.
Austastar - now there is one case of justifiable discrimination/racism and you happen to pick it. >:D
Not to mention that I am boat person (parents were anyway), I am white, I am male, I am healthy (touch wood) and I am heterosexual - damned right there's discrimination and racism set against me. What hope do I have but to go bush and hopefully bump into some of you lot and have the chance to knock the froth off a couple around a campfire - oh did I mention I fish and I hunt and I eat meat ;D
G'day Draggin,
Love the response mate!
Regards,
RLI
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Hmmm, hope you are never over forty and are made redundant (like so many recently) as, on average, you will be out of work for more than six months. Is the ADF going to relocate established families?
KB
They do relocate families my father was in the army and we had to move a few times Brisbane to Townsville back to Brisbane. Sorry my post wasn't worded properly earlier I was referring to the dole bludgers who haven't worked more then 6 months but just sit on the dole and suck the money out of the government. If I'm over forty and get made redundant then something has gone terribly wrong as it would be my company who has gone belly up
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Don't care. But if your a black Jew homosexual tranny that's lives in NSW, then don't be askin me for job
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It is racist simply because it is choosing one race over another.
However, identifying positions for indigenous people is probably a good idea to try and get more employed.
I trained an aboriginal apprentice however he left at the end of year 3 as he was tired of being called a "white maggot f'er" by his community. Poor bugger was sobbing before he left. He knew he was screwed.
Apparently that's why AFL umps now wear coloured kits ;D
Back on topic though,
I don't judge anyone by their colour of skin or which religion they might follow but by how they act and conduct themselves. I have a mate who has aboriginal heritage and slight coloured skin and his nickname is coon and has been all his life. You have to be careful now where you are when you use it to not offend others but surely if my mate is comfy with it that should be good enough? I have another mate with red hair a nicknamed Red, nobody has any issue with that though do they?
I have heard whispers that some companies are now being encouraged to have a percentage of particular heritage employees now on the books. Surely this is not required as the business should hire the best applicant not by their race or religion.
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I reckon racism only goes one way, in any given situation.
I always tick the box on the form:
"White hetrosexual male from an English speaking background". So that's me and two other blokes in a population of 23 million ;D
While it's not entirely true (and I'm not saying which sector I don't fit into...), it sure as hell beats the alternatives. It certainly doesn't worry me if people attack my skin colour, language, or lack of religion, so I count myself damn lucky. But if I were living in say rural China or Nth Africa, I'm sure I'd feel entirely different.
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For those who think/believe racism/discrimation only goes 1 way...I wonder how many of you have lived in or close proximity to 'communities'?
I've live(d) in a few areas now with a high concentration of indigenous folks. May I suggest you also try living in the same type of area(s) before forming your opinions ;)
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Every race on this earth is racist. If it wasn't there would be no wars. It comes down to individual people and how you treat others.
Me, I treat people the same way I get treated by that same person.
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We all bleed the same colour.
Mark
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We all bleed the same colour.
Mark
Exactly mate
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I thought only whiteys were racist
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We all bleed the same colour.
Mark
Beer ;D ???
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For those who think/believe racism/discrimation only goes 1 way...I wonder how many of you have lived in or close proximity to 'communities'?
I've live(d) in a few areas now with a high concentration of indigenous folks. May I suggest you also try living in the same type of area(s) before forming your opinions ;)
Oh, how right you are and Bazt - really ???
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racism/discrimation, yep but the only one that can not claim it is a white heterosexual male.
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racism/discrimation, yep but the only one that can not claim it is a white heterosexual male.
Try being a scotsman in London
gordo350
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racism/discrimation, yep but the only one that can not claim it is a white heterosexual male.
That would be because a white heterosexual male in most parts of Australia would be ;
1. The sex with the strongest influence in society
2. In the majority of sexual orientation (straight)
3. The major race (Caucasian)
Live overseas, particularly in some Asian or Baltic countries, and the shoe will be well and truly on the other foot.
:D
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the shoe will be well and truly on the other foot.
Ain't that the truth!
I picked one little potty mouthed street urchin up by his shirt and held him over the balcony for his derogatory comments about me and my dinner date one evening.
Didn't he squeal his apology quickly, in English too.
cheers
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See, that's my argument as to why racism is one-way. If you have a superiority complex like I do, it matters not what anyone else calls you. And if I don't take offence at someone's comments to me, then they are not being racist.
I on the other hand, because of the aforementioned superiority complex, would be considered a racist even in my sleep...without uttering a word.
When someone calls me a "fat, lazy, white,smartar$e, bastard,", I see their lips moving but all i hear is "well-fed, wealthy, lucky, intelligent, son of a publican". ;D
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Racism is not both ways, it's any way it's pointed.
I am a small "l" liberal and reckon I've got few prejudices, but I have got a few. Everyone has and it has been proven time and again that people are the most comfortable with those with whom they share the most similarities.
I believe there is some inherent racism in absolutely everyone, but some recognise this and consciously moderate their views where others rejoice in the demeaning of those not like themselves.
Remember, two wrongs don't make a right.
Julian
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Racism is not both ways, it's any way it's pointed.
I am a small "l" liberal and reckon I've got few prejudices, but I have got a few. Everyone has and it has been proven time and again that people are the most comfortable with those with whom they share the most similarities.
I believe there is some inherent racism in absolutely everyone, but some recognise this and consciously moderate their views where others rejoice in the demeaning of those not like themselves.
Remember, two wrongs don't make a right.
Julian
I think that's the most intelligent thing I've heard in a long time.
Well said.
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You are only racist if you are white. We don't even know what racism is. Live in the middle east or africa for awhile where they will kill you for being different race.
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Try being a scotsman in London
gordo350
try owning a Jeep:-)
Actually edit that - wait til you buy your Jeep:-) You'll get no love from Toyonissa owners.
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Racism is not both ways, it's any way it's pointed.
I am a small "l" liberal and reckon I've got few prejudices, but I have got a few. Everyone has and it has been proven time and again that people are the most comfortable with those with whom they share the most similarities.
I believe there is some inherent racism in absolutely everyone, but some recognise this and consciously moderate their views where others rejoice in the demeaning of those not like themselves.
Remember, two wrongs don't make a right.
Julian
Thanks Jules, well put.
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You are only racist if you are white.
Perfect example....
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try owning a Jeep:-)
Actually edit that - wait til you buy your Jeep:-) You'll get no love from Toyonissa owners.
Only thinking about buying a jeep and I'm already being vilified:)
gordo350
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Wouldn't have anything to do with your Avatar would it?
Was your 4by in the shop that day?
Yeah I know, cheap shot. Just following everyone else's example they've set already.
Those ole Grey Tractors built this country.
That's after Farmers worked out they couldn't afford to keep their horses.
Those Old Grey Fergies (I Think it is?) are almost indestructable.
I don't think any of the modern stuff will last any where near as long as they have.
And yes I do have my problems too, that's what the pills are for aren't they?
Don't know about those blue one's though.
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Only thinking about buying a jeep
Why would you want a sex change ???
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Wouldn't have anything to do with your Avatar would it?
Was your 4by in the shop that day?
Yeah I know, cheap shot. Just following everyone else's example they've set already.
Those ole Grey Tractors built this country.
That's after Farmers worked out they couldn't afford to keep their horses.
Those Old Grey Fergies (I Think it is?) are almost indestructable.
I don't think any of the modern stuff will last any where near as long as they have.
And yes I do have my problems too, that's what the pills are for aren't they?
Don't know about those blue one's though.
pfft, the blue one's are old technology these days.
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Thanks Scarps.
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Wouldn't have anything to do with your Avatar would it?
Was your 4by in the shop that day?
Yeah I know, cheap shot. Just following everyone else's example they've set already.
Those ole Grey Tractors built this country.
That's after Farmers worked out they couldn't afford to keep their horses.
Those Old Grey Fergies (I Think it is?) are almost indestructable.
I don't think any of the modern stuff will last any where near as long as they have.
And yes I do have my problems too, that's what the pills are for aren't they?
Don't know about those blue one's though.
There's a 6 day trip every year that travels up through Marysville and surrounds that I have threatened to participate in. 30 or so fergies with a carry all fitted , swag and eskie. If I do it next year I'm dragging the ct with me. Won't slow the fergie down :) and it will go anywhere, anytime
gordo350
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yes it works both ways
here in aussie land
have u travelled overseas
if u have then u know wat I mean
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I work in a state govt school. We are not allowed to call a Black board a Black board, we have to call it a chalk board (we still have a few) because it may upset our indigenous kid's
But a White board can be called a White board ,not a erasable board.
Now that's double standards.
In the USA the black boards are actually green