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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Oddy on April 01, 2013, 11:23:43 AM

Title: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: Oddy on April 01, 2013, 11:23:43 AM
We had a pre-Easter camp at Burrum Coast NP, Woodgate Section (Burrum Point) near Childers, Qld - lovely spot with only a few people (we left on Thursday).  The facilities are good with town water flushing toilets and cold showers, but we took along, as usual, our Aqua Cube and shower tent.  But the notice on the board said "No Private External Showers ... Permitted".  I asked the ranger why and he said it was to avoid having soap scum left behind on the sites.  The sites are on deep sand, about 50m behind the dunes. 

(http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y405/OdysseyCamper/BurrumPt-NoPrivateShowers_zps4245126e.jpg)

In this case, the cold shower water was not real cold (must have been well into the 20's) so we had no problem.  But in winter, that would be different.  And I would hate to think that parks everywhere will pick up on this new (to me) restriction.  How widespread is it?

Cheers
Oddy
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: xcvator on April 01, 2013, 12:46:25 PM
Looks to me like the "ranger in charge" is making up his own rules  ???
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: DannyG on April 01, 2013, 01:21:31 PM
Obviously the ranger has read the generator threads on here!

The shower rule is a bit odd although it may cause a hygiene risk perhaps?
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: toeball on April 01, 2013, 02:19:26 PM
I'd check for a hidden camera in the shower cubicle.   :-[
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: dazzler on April 01, 2013, 02:25:53 PM
I would have a bath then ......
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: edz on April 01, 2013, 03:55:20 PM
Just wondering if he was a bit early with the April fools day pranks . ..
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: austastar on April 01, 2013, 04:18:16 PM
Hi,
  perhaps he saw a sight that he just can't 'unsee'.


cheers
Title: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: Marcus73 on April 01, 2013, 05:13:01 PM
Hi,
  perhaps he saw a sight that he just can't 'unsee'.


cheers

Hmmm... Sounds like Jeepers has been camping there
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: Paul (SA) on April 01, 2013, 05:51:33 PM
Surely is a beautiful spot to holiday at. Wish I was there right now....   >:(
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: Tim - Stratford on April 01, 2013, 05:59:44 PM
So in the spirit of the legislation...or sign....a group external shower is ok. Just invite all the other campers over for a 'hot' shower with you.  ;D
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: nbd73 on April 01, 2013, 06:20:38 PM
What a load of BS. As if a private personal shower generates enough soap to upset the environmental balance. I am not a scientist, but this does sound like rubbish. I reckon humans contribute far more deadly elements to nature on a daily basis that are not monitored, so why on earth this has become an issue is anybody's guess: more knowledgeable people please enlighten....
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: gibbo301 on April 02, 2013, 10:15:23 AM
Sounds to me he is only banning the shower tent if you shower in the open its not private right. ;D
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: GeeTee on April 02, 2013, 01:12:15 PM
That is terrific news for experienced campers and travellers. Hopefully this will reduce the disgusting practice of campers (and caravanners) having showers with scant regard for the sewerage run-off onto the ground


Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: BigJules on April 02, 2013, 01:27:39 PM
I believe sewerage is waste water from a toilet (sewerage system), whereas showers, sinks etc produce grey water.

Strenuous activity such as hiking is also banned, as sweat may fall on the ground, containing salts which would then damage the environment.

Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: Bird on April 02, 2013, 01:38:26 PM
Quote from: BigJules
I believe sewerage is waste water from a toilet (sewerage system), whereas showers, sinks etc produce grey water.

Strenuous activity such as hiking is also banned, as sweat may fall on the ground, containing salts which would then damage the environment.

(http://arabmoneymatters.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Pure_Gold.jpg)
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: SteveandViv on April 02, 2013, 01:44:52 PM
That is terrific news for experienced campers and travellers. Hopefully this will reduce the disgusting practice of campers (and caravanners) having showers with scant regard for the sewerage run-off onto the ground

What a load of xxxx . Do you think that the water that falls on the Kimberly is nice and pure after the dry, filled with cow sh1t and all manner of things. It is then used as bore water for stations etc. It can be done if people are sensible. It filters back into the land. I'm taking about showers. What do you do when you need to pee in the middle of now where ???

Bet if you took a soil sample after a few days you wouldn't know they were there. I've never seen sewerage on the ground after a shower though  >:(
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: GeeTee on April 02, 2013, 02:33:03 PM
Yep, many will agree - many will disagree. But I was brought up in a 'take only photos - leave only footprints' way.

As far as I'm concerned "grey water" is sewarage and I treat it - and the people who create it - with the same disdain as the also-growing number of caravanners who drop thier washing machine water ("grey water") all over campgrounds and road-side rest areas

It's disgusting and as the orginal poster asked, yes I hope banning of showers is a trend






Title: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: Marcus73 on April 02, 2013, 03:18:58 PM
Maybe I'm just a little confused here, but I've always been under the impression that people store grey water ( showers / washing machine ) for use around the garden etc. If this is the case, what harm would having a shower while camping do? Taking a dump in the middle of a camp area may be slightly different though
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: SteveandViv on April 02, 2013, 03:37:17 PM
Maybe I'm just a little confused here, but I've always been under the impression that people store grey water ( showers / washing machine ) for use around the garden etc. If this is the case, what harm would having a shower while camping do? Taking a dump in the middle of a camp area may be slightly different though

Quote
Taking a dump in the middle of a camp area may be slightly different though

Apparently not to some though. When we did Cape Y a few years with the Frosts we did the Frenchmans track. A few lovely people did a few choice turds on the track - lovely >:(

As for grey water. Maybe if the sites get to soggy then you may limit the where you can but in the real bush no one will care and no one will know. . Still though. Can't see most places having and issue with it. Up here the sites are all river type sand and the water is gone before you know it and will join the artisan basin no doubt. 
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: hairymick on April 02, 2013, 04:21:08 PM
Yep, many will agree - many will disagree. But I was brought up in a 'take only photos - leave only footprints' way.

As far as I'm concerned "grey water" is sewarage and I treat it - and the people who create it - with the same disdain as the also-growing number of caravanners who drop thier washing machine water ("grey water") all over campgrounds and road-side rest areas

It's disgusting and as the orginal poster asked, yes I hope banning of showers is a trend

What would you have people do with their grey water from showers? Perhaps you are clued in on some new apparatus that will magically make all this terrible stuff just dissappear.

I use my grey water at home to water my plants and gardens and they thrive on it.

Are you actually advocating taking this terrible grey water back to our respective homes and then disposing of it down the sewer? that is assuming we had the capacity to carry all this waste water.

Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: rockman on April 02, 2013, 05:05:20 PM
Yep, many will agree - many will disagree. But I was brought up in a 'take only photos - leave only footprints' way.

As far as I'm concerned "grey water" is sewarage and I treat it - and the people who create it - with the same disdain as the also-growing number of caravanners who drop thier washing machine water ("grey water") all over campgrounds and road-side rest areas

It's disgusting and as the orginal poster asked, yes I hope banning of showers is a trend








I got to love a guy that will stand up in front of a bunch of people and tell them that they are wrong ..... lol

Question for you while you are still up on your soapbox .. have you ever had to stop for a leak in the bush or do you wait until you get into the nearest McDonalds and use their rest-room or do you quickly set up your portable toilet enclosure , access your porta-loo ... and squat !

I know that after a night on the apple ciders , i would think that my urine is 100 times stronger then most soap ... if not just as bubbly !
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: sunshine on April 02, 2013, 06:21:55 PM
hmmm  detergents can infect fresh water supplies ... and damage the warer quality .......but the bush wouldnt be as fragile  imho ...    and what about acid rain type stuff carrried from far & away and being deposited upon the land

just my 2c
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: sonny on April 02, 2013, 07:00:25 PM
Sounds a bit like the dam near us - you are not allowed to canoe on it as it is a drinking water source (and yes I do know people who have been fined for canoeing there) - BUT the local farmer's horses swim in there !!!!  (and no doubt do other things as well !)
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: Jon on April 02, 2013, 07:23:04 PM
Years ago we used Pears Clear soap as it was/is biodegradeable, while bathing in the pristine Murrumbidgee. Compared with what comes down the river in a flood, some suds for 30secs every other day is not going to be an issue.

I do take the point about low lying, already damp camp grounds. No one likes camping in others run off. I make an effort to put the shower where the run off goes into the bush, away from the general area.
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: Foo on April 03, 2013, 05:44:17 AM
Lets all go camping for a week and not have a shower or wash, how wonderfully hygienic idiots.  ::)

Make sure you don't clean you utensils as well, we wouldn't  want that neither would we oh and while your at it, bloody well stay home and we won't have to worry about all this crap that some tree hugging stinking hippie types say. Whatever you do, don't fart out in the woods because you will destroy the ozone as well. Give me a bloody break. :o

Human stupidity never ceases to amaze me. >:D

Foo
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: jetcrew on April 03, 2013, 03:52:44 PM
I sort of agree ..(run and  hide) :D :D

The issue must be a phosphorus or other chemical used in some shower gels and soaps that can cause an imbalance in a small area . I am no expert either but after 2-5 people showering in one small area over a week and using chemicals I am positive the ground would show signs.

Maybe though a better solution though would be to ask people to use enviro friendly shower gels and laundry powders .

Banning showering seems excessive if the message is to tread lightly and preserve and conserve.

I mean sometimes in some places the extra water could be a good thing , but if chemicals are causing harm then that should be raised as the issue , saying showering is the issue kind of makes no sense.and seems very British  ;D ;D ( no offence intended ;D)

Jet ;D :D :D
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: Foo on April 03, 2013, 04:18:10 PM
Why wouldn't you make it compulsory to use bio-degradable soaps. The rangers are supposed to be checking on you too see if you have paid, so why not ask to see evidence of bio soap.?

                                                                                           Or

Have a dispenser at the point of where you pay and pick up your permit and it gives you 100-200ml of soap. Yeah I know to much commonsense there and to hard for the dipsticks that want to manage the parks to think of.  ::)

Foo
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: Spada on April 03, 2013, 04:18:28 PM
When you shower at home, that water does'nt magicly dissapear after it goes down the plug hole...........

It still gets returned into the enviorenment, just through a different process.
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: jetcrew on April 03, 2013, 04:48:02 PM
When you shower at home, that water does'nt magicly dissapear after it goes down the plug hole...........

It still gets returned into the enviorenment, just through a different process.

That's true , but maybe the concentration of chemicals is greater when showering in a camp shower , I mean you use the same amount of soap but a lot less water so makes sense that the concentration  of chem V water would be higher in a bush shower.

I mean without knowing why they banned it its hard to make a judgement but as people have said there are bio friendly products out there.

We have a treatment plant on site at my place and it has def highlighted how chemicals effect natural processes. Every bit of brown and grey water out of my house ends up on my lawn and by using natural products we have zero smell and the water is so clean. But when chemicals are used the system looses its ability to treat and the water smells and looks bad .

I guess my point is that chemicals hurt the enviro and yes your right it eventually ends up there but at least when we are all  out camping we could prevent a direct injection of chemicals directly to the places we need to protect for future camping .

Maybe just a little step people might choose to consider next time they go camping , just as import as picking up our rubbish .

But still can't see why a shower ban is in place without an explanation as you would still use the same soap in their shower block so really nothing achieved on the enviro front and if this is the reason  then education would be a better option than regulation.

Jet :D :D
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: Paul (SA) on April 03, 2013, 04:58:33 PM
What's this thing called soap that you are all talking about?
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: Pauly on April 03, 2013, 05:06:31 PM
Reminds me why I dont bother with National Parks... :police: Just a thought are you allowed to swim in streams in NP's ?

I see lots of things grubs do in the bush like not bothering to bury their paper or digging a hole next to streams, putting up their shower tents next to streams allowing their soap to run into the stream etc.
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: Jason B on April 03, 2013, 05:28:59 PM
What a load of xxxx . Do you think that the water that falls on the Kimberly is nice and pure after the dry, filled with cow sh1t and all manner of things. It is then used as bore water for stations etc. It can be done if people are sensible. It filters back into the land. I'm taking about showers. What do you do when you need to pee in the middle of now where ???

Bet if you took a soil sample after a few days you wouldn't know they were there. I've never seen sewerage on the ground after a shower though  >:(

Agree totally

NPWS are such twats, they corral you into small bollarded camping areas and then punish you because over use is an issue. If they allowed you to spread out and access more of the park for camping there wouldn't be an issue. The world is turning to sh!t !

Jas
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: deepop on April 03, 2013, 08:38:02 PM
I believe sewerage is waste water from a toilet (sewerage system), whereas showers, sinks etc produce grey water.

Strenuous activity such as hiking is also banned, as sweat may fall on the ground, containing salts which would then damage the environment.
Yeah, that's exactly why I banned hiking as an activity when I'm camping!

But ............. what happens when I go swimming?   Maybe we should ban that too - I'm sure I've knocked off at least a few swimming wildlife downstream of where I've bathed my svelte body.
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: Kit_e_kat9 on April 03, 2013, 11:18:23 PM
I believe sewerage is waste water from a toilet (sewerage system), whereas showers, sinks etc produce grey water.

Correct.  I should know as this is the business I'm employed in ... We Suck Shyte ... true!

And grease trap is what comes from the kitchen sink .... which I believe a lot of campers use to extinguish the fire. 

Any collection and transportation of such products as listed above, requires EPA and government approval and the appropriate permits, and must be disposed of at an appropriately registered and permitted business.

Kit_e
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: cruisindub on April 03, 2013, 11:40:35 PM

I use my grey water at home to water my plants and gardens and they thrive on it.


As do we, almost all of it, well, as much as we can.
Our plants are doing well, my curry tree is testament to how good grey water is for watering.

Makes awesome curries straight from the garden,

We also eat the figs, apples, pears and figoas from the same watered trees.
As does the tomatoes, corguettes, brocolli, strawberries and lettuce and numerous other vegies my wife plants and we both eat. Almost all are watered from our grey water usuage.

Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: Andrew_C on April 04, 2013, 06:18:54 AM
If I cared about it as much as some of you appear to, I would ring the mobile number on the notice and have a chat with the ranger.
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: kiwipride on April 04, 2013, 07:11:33 AM
Yep, many will agree - many will disagree. But I was brought up in a 'take only photos - leave only footprints' way.

As far as I'm concerned "grey water" is sewarage and I treat it - and the people who create it - with the same disdain as the also-growing number of caravanners who drop thier washing machine water ("grey water") all over campgrounds and road-side rest areas

It's disgusting and as the orginal poster asked, yes I hope banning of showers is a trend

You've never peed on a tree?
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: Kit_e_kat9 on April 04, 2013, 11:52:25 AM
If I cared about it as much as some of you appear to, I would ring the mobile number on the notice and have a chat with the ranger.

Already have.

"The mobile number you have just called is not connected, please check the number and try again"

... yes I checked the number ... no I didn't dial it again ... just hoping that it's 899 and not 859 on then end (yes I cleaned the specs and even squinted to see that).

Kit_e
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: Topender on April 04, 2013, 04:55:42 PM
It's 859 on the end

Dave ;D
Title: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: Marcus73 on April 04, 2013, 05:19:23 PM
Definately 859 and I can see that on my phone :) ..... Perhaps some new specs are in order ;)
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: Brucer on April 04, 2013, 06:45:44 PM
they corral you into small bollarded camping areas and then punish you because over use is an issue.

Yep!
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on April 05, 2013, 05:56:55 AM
If this is the case, what harm would having a shower while camping do? Taking a dump in the middle of a camp area may be slightly different though

Yeah, they hate that, no matter jow pissed you were/are.  >:D
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: rodsswag on April 05, 2013, 05:02:52 PM
(http://arabmoneymatters.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Pure_Gold.jpg)


X2
 :cheers:

Rod....
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: rodsswag on April 05, 2013, 05:15:11 PM
You've never peed on a tree?

Only the lemon tree.......
 :cheers:


Rod.....
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: MDS69 on April 05, 2013, 06:19:07 PM
As do we, almost all of it, well, as much as we can.
Our plants are doing well, my curry tree is testament to how good grey water is for watering.

Makes awesome curries straight from the garden,

We also eat the figs, apples, pears and figoas from the same watered trees.
As does the tomatoes, corguettes, brocolli, strawberries and lettuce and numerous other vegies my wife plants and we both eat. Almost all are watered from our grey water usuage.

Does it work on the money tree cause normal tap water doesn't seem to do a thing.
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: cruisindub on April 05, 2013, 08:49:32 PM
Does it work on the money tree cause normal tap water doesn't seem to do a thing.
my money tree dried up and died quite some time back....!
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: briann532 on April 05, 2013, 08:56:36 PM
my money tree dried up and died quite some time back....!

Just sussing out a theory here.......................

Was it the around the same time you got married?
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: grizzly on April 05, 2013, 09:01:11 PM
Pauly.
 I have invited the knockers of National Parks on many occasions to go and spend some time with the people who have to fix all of the vandalism and clean up after those who believe it is their god given right to disregard rules :police: that the majority seem to have no problem following (mostly for the greater good) My question is if those that want to go anywhere anytime and do anything they want are such great assets to our community of bush campers, why is it they even go to National Parks, they would have so many private land owners begging them to camp on their properties for free, if they have such a small impact on the environment. :angel:
Fully agree that an explanation of the ban would be helpful, ??? but I am sure the answer is the discusion above.
 I do not know if it is a trend but with a steadily increasing numbers of people camping the impacts are getting bigger
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: Crimso on April 06, 2013, 07:59:51 AM
So why not just heat your water & take it into the shower cubicle? As an owner / user of a shower tent, I have done this at a couple of national parks where there is only cold showers or one of those donkey set ups. We use one of those hand pump Coleman (I think) showers. Works well.

For those that use their grey water on their garden at home, maybe you should check the local laws as you may find that it is illegal to do so. Ther usually is more than a bit of detergent in grey water.
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: Jason B on April 06, 2013, 08:46:09 AM
Pauly.
 I have invited the knockers of National Parks on many occasions to go and spend some time with the people who have to fix all of the vandalism and clean up after those who believe it is their god given right to disregard rules :police: that the majority seem to have no problem following (mostly for the greater good) My question is if those that want to go anywhere anytime and do anything they want are such great assets to our community of bush campers, why is it they even go to National Parks, they would have so many private land owners begging them to camp on their properties for free, if they have such a small impact on the environment. :angel:
Fully agree that an explanation of the ban would be helpful, ??? but I am sure the answer is the discusion above.
 I do not know if it is a trend but with a steadily increasing numbers of people camping the impacts are getting bigger


Instead of bringing in rules that over regulate everyone because of a few, NPWS needs to actually develop a compliance policy, that targets the wrong doers. If they actually issued fines and enforced regulations instead of giving every one cuddles they might find that more people toed the line.

NPWS is known as a soft touch, when it comes to compliance. Education only works on fair minded people, the idiots that vandalise areas need a big stick. The legislation is there but the culture needs to change. Once some of the morons are prosecuted the word might get out.

In addition there our parks, NPWS is funded with tax payers money, this should be used to provide facilities and open up areas not build fences and do research to find some obscure nymph that justifies the closure of areas to people.

I have done many joint ops with the NPWS and am constantly amazed at the soft approach they have to compliance. We came across a guy in Kosy one day that had driven 50km into the park with his pig dogs. He had then thrown them in his boat and taken them across the dam into a wilderness/conservation area. He also had some illegal traps and no fishing licence and was in possession of a bow with arrows. NPWS action = a warning. I issued him with $700 in tickets for the licence/traps and seized the illegal traps. Turns out he had form with the Police for illegally hunting in parks previously.

Jas
Title: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: britts on April 06, 2013, 09:15:50 AM
Just invite the neighbors in then it's not a private shower anymore
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: Jason B on April 06, 2013, 09:35:44 AM
Just invite the neighbors in then it's not a private shower anymore

Just hope they are back packers from an appropriate European country!
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: Brad_m on April 06, 2013, 09:58:01 AM

Instead of bringing in rules that over regulate everyone because of a few, NPWS needs to actually develop a compliance policy, that targets the wrong doers. If they actually issued fines and enforced regulations instead of giving every one cuddles they might find that more people toed the line.

NPWS is known as a soft touch, when it comes to compliance. Education only works on fair minded people, the idiots that vandalise areas need a big stick. The legislation is there but the culture needs to change. Once some of the morons are prosecuted the word might get out.

In addition there our parks, NPWS is funded with tax payers money, this should be used to provide facilities and open up areas not build fences and do research to find some obscure nymph that justifies the closure of areas to people.

I have done many joint ops with the NPWS and am constantly amazed at the soft approach they have to compliance. We came across a guy in Kosy one day that had driven 50km into the park with his pig dogs. He had then thrown them in his boat and taken them across the dam into a wilderness/conservation area. He also had some illegal traps and no fishing licence and was in possession of a bow with arrows. NPWS action = a warning. I issued him with $700 in tickets for the licence/traps and seized the illegal traps. Turns out he had form with the Police for illegally hunting in parks previously.

Jas

This is a problem everywhere,  The jerkwad moron bogan feckwits will ALWAYS do what they feel like because we let them do it.   

I pulled a pair of them up on the Easter weekend for camping in the middle of a track.   It ended in one of the bogan feckwits throwing a large at my 4x4.   They know that all they need to do is be a little threatening and most people will ignore what they are doing.   
Not me, not any more, I'm sick of the bull Shit and the damage to camp sites and rubbish that gets left behind.  EVERY TIME I see these jerkwad moron bogan feckwits acting like jerkwad moron bogan feckwits i'm going do something about it.
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: Jason B on April 06, 2013, 10:23:32 AM
This is a problem everywhere,  The jerkwad moron bogan feckwits will ALWAYS do what they feel like because we let them do it.   

I pulled a pair of them up on the Easter weekend for camping in the middle of a track.   It ended in one of the bogan feckwits throwing a large at my 4x4.   They know that all they need to do is be a little threatening and most people will ignore what they are doing.   
Not me, not any more, I'm sick of the bull **** and the damage to camp sites and rubbish that gets left behind.  EVERY TIME I see these jerkwad moron bogan feckwits acting like jerkwad moron bogan feckwits i'm going do something about it.

Start a movement mate, I will join.

I want a shirt with "I hate jerwad moron bogan feckwits" printed on it.  ;D

Jas
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: xcvator on April 06, 2013, 10:26:51 AM
Start a movement mate, I will join.

I want a shirt with "I hate jerwad moron bogan feckits" printed on it.  ;D

Jas
x2
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: SteveandViv on April 06, 2013, 10:36:23 AM
So why not just heat your water & take it into the shower cubicle? As an owner / user of a shower tent, I have done this at a couple of national parks where there is only cold showers or one of those donkey set ups. We use one of those hand pump Coleman (I think) showers. Works well.

For those that use their grey water on their garden at home, maybe you should check the local laws as you may find that it is illegal to do so. Ther usually is more than a bit of detergent in grey water.

Quote
For those that use their grey water on their garden at home, maybe you should check the local laws as you may find that it is illegal to do so. Ther usually is more than a bit of detergent in grey water.

No it's not. Yes there are rules around it such as storage time and you also can not spray it, it must be drip feed. I think the holding time is 24 or 48 hours that the tank must be recycled. That us the law in NSW anyway as we did that in the Blue Mountains, a heritage listed area.
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: SteveandViv on April 06, 2013, 10:41:29 AM
Pauly.
 I have invited the knockers of National Parks on many occasions to go and spend some time with the people who have to fix all of the vandalism and clean up after those who believe it is their god given right to disregard rules :police: that the majority seem to have no problem following (mostly for the greater good) My question is if those that want to go anywhere anytime and do anything they want are such great assets to our community of bush campers, why is it they even go to National Parks, they would have so many private land owners begging them to camp on their properties for free, if they have such a small impact on the environment. :angel:
Fully agree that an explanation of the ban would be helpful, ??? but I am sure the answer is the discusion above.
 I do not know if it is a trend but with a steadily increasing numbers of people camping the impacts are getting bigger

Where talking about one thing here. Not condoning idiots that do far worse that have a wash. Don't blend the rest of your views with this one point. As intelligent beings I agree with you though, a full explanation would be helpful.
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: Brad_m on April 06, 2013, 12:45:04 PM
No it's not. Yes there are rules around it such as storage time and you also can not spray it, it must be drip feed. I think the holding time is 24 or 48 hours that the tank must be recycled. That us the law in NSW anyway as we did that in the Blue Mountains, a heritage listed area.

I grew up in a house that had three gray water pipes/hoses coming from the house (bath, kitchen, laundry)  that just discharged straight on to the lawn.
House was built that way.    The whole estate was built with out  a sewage connection every house had grey water discharged onto the lawn and septic tanks.

We had ten mango trees and 5m square banana crop that loved the stuff
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: Oddy on April 06, 2013, 10:44:47 PM
The (cold-only) showers in the amenity block had a rope above them hanging from the rafters - I was told they were for hanging a bag of hot water (brought over from your camp). 

The rangers do have a tough time dealing with some visitors, especially at periods like Easter.  The ranger who came around each morning was a chatty bloke - you could tell that before he spoke by the fact that he turned off his engine as he pulled up at each camp site. He said on the Thursday morning (day before Good Friday) that the "Easter chaos" had already started - despite the Northern section of the Burrum Coast park (Kinkuna) being closed due to water over the access road (lots of water), there were already people driving in past the road closed signs and heading into a section of private land (a sand mining lease) within the NP boundaries and camping there. He has to waste time, and endure the hassle, of making arrangements to have them moved out of there.

Despite the no hot shower rule, and tightly bollarded camp sites (the photo below of our setup was one of the "large" sites - the "small" site opposite us (these are the website descriptions) was hardly big enough to put up a one-man tent and park a bicycle next to it.  So, trailer owners, only select a "Large" site when booking on line here.

(http://i1273.photobucket.com/albums/y405/OdysseyCamper/BurrumCamp_zpsda20fdfe.jpg)

Still, a great spot for a few nights.

Cheers
Oddy

Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: 4wd26 on April 13, 2013, 11:53:33 AM
That is terrific news for experienced campers and travellers. Hopefully this will reduce the disgusting practice of campers (and caravanners) having showers with scant regard for the sewerage run-off onto the ground

What would you have people do with their grey water from showers? Perhaps you are clued in on some new apparatus that will magically make all this terrible stuff just dissappear.

I use my grey water at home to water my plants and gardens and they thrive on it.

Are you actually advocating taking this terrible grey water back to our respective homes and then disposing of it down the sewer? that is assuming we had the capacity to carry all this waste water.

yes that is the principal for low impact camping- you have the facility to take water and rubbish into the bush- isn't it also your responsibility to take this rubbish and "now dirty water" dish washing, showering etc with you?

notice how national parks are now no longer supplying bins?

this is the next frontier- get used to it.

moves are already afoot- see this notice as the start, you will need certification that you carry you grey waste away from these areas.

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CMCA initiatives:-
•    The Leave No Trace® – Self Containment Code of Conduct Scheme is a CMCA initiative that includes
adherence to a Code of Conduct and an environmental commitment. Vehicles registered in this scheme
must be able to retain all waste within the vehicle.

as to the original quoted message- travel to a few of the free campsites in the "bible" camp 6 etc and you can see evidence of the film/ crust left from the showers and washing machines that the "larger" self contained caravans etc can leave- think of the specs of a bush tracker type van 400lts of fresh water and facilities fro a washing machine, the potential for these types of wastes to exist.

look I'm currently guilty, my van has a shower toilet, I carry the black waste (sewerage) away, but the sink and shower water get directed away from the van into the bush, I'm currently making efforts to include another "grey water tank" as I'd rather be part of the solution rather than part of the problem in getting places "locked" away.

nothing disturbs me more than turning up to a beach campsite and finding the past toilet of the person before, I can see how people could also see the grey waste scum in the same light- not everyone thinks the same, and one persons ideal campsite could have once been someones ideal toilet  :cheers:
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: SteveandViv on April 13, 2013, 12:19:27 PM
I think that is a very good point. I was looking at it from my point of view where we don;t use much water and have the thought to move it around rather than just one spot. I was forgetting the fact that caravans my do washing etc while at one of those camps and can see how that may cause grief when we use a old bucket and stick to wash and then there isn't much water in any case. We also tend to go places that are not on the beaten track so seldom see the damage being done.
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: markg on April 25, 2013, 08:00:43 AM
Yep, many will agree - many will disagree. But I was brought up in a 'take only photos - leave only footprints' way.

As far as I'm concerned "grey water" is sewarage and I treat it - and the people who create it - with the same disdain as the also-growing number of caravanners who drop thier washing machine water ("grey water") all over campgrounds and road-side rest areas

It's disgusting and as the orginal poster asked, yes I hope banning of showers is a trend

yep this guy is a hypocrite, he sells a camper with a 80l water tank and a  kitchen
with big off-road tyres and no grey water tank  ???
 
   
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: GeeTee on April 25, 2013, 07:16:02 PM
yep this guy is a hypocrite, he sells a camper with a 80l water tank and a  kitchen
with big off-road tyres and no grey water tank  ???
 
 


Hi Mark! Thanks for the rap on my tyres and tank...but you forgot to mention the optional on-board shower available with every GT Campers Toyota Hilux Expedition!!!!!  ;D

I think you, like several others, have missed the point: the issue raised by the OP is showers in established campgrounds, especially where there are provided showers, not a tree-hugging, fart-and-the-world-is-doomed mantra.

I'm sure park rangers are - as are many experienced travelers - sick of having to deal with the one-metre square quagmire, of questionable makeup, that remains at many campsites after an 'I've got everything' hero packs up his shower that's had seventeen uses in two days - just because he can - and departs.

Wanna camp in that?! 
Title: Re: Private shower ban at Burrum Coast National Park - Is this a trend?
Post by: Topender on April 25, 2013, 08:34:56 PM

Hi Mark! Thanks for the rap on my tyres and tank...but you forgot to mention the optional on-board shower available with every GT Campers Toyota Hilux Expedition!!!!!  ;D

I think you, like several others, have missed the point: the issue raised by the OP is showers in established campgrounds, especially where there are provided showers, not a tree-hugging, fart-and-the-world-is-doomed mantra.

I'm sure park rangers are - as are many experienced travelers - sick of having to deal with the one-metre square quagmire, of questionable makeup, that remains at many campsites after an 'I've got everything' hero packs up his shower that's had seventeen uses in two days - just because he can - and departs.

Wanna camp in that?!

Jealous Much?  ;D