MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: allenpeng on September 01, 2012, 04:47:51 PM
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Just want to make this model? Do you like it?
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Hi,
There is really not enough information given to make any meaningful comments I feel.
Perhaps more details about what you are planning/thinking about would help. And even if you are just hunting for ideas and perhaps just doing market research, I'm sure you will get responses from other users.
If you present your ideas so they can receive short answers, your chance of gleaning useful information will increase.
cheers
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Maybe, more detail please
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Yes mates thanks for your advices and there are 3 details I want to get camper guy's opinions-
1. Pop-top style: will people want to spend more money on this pop-top design or just keep flat top and save cost?
--> Pop top is good. Gives more space and light and wind (for hot weather).
2. Silde out kitchen set: do you like to move the kitchen to outside of the caravan so it can be cleaner inside and more space?
--> I much prefer the outside kitchen. Less smells. Less mess.
3. Gate position: as you can see the gate is at the rear of the caravan while some models have gate in the front? Is that important?
--> I think you mean door. The door at the back seems good.
4. Whole length: I need to control it no more than 6000mm because the shipping container is 6000mm or 12000mm. What length do
you prefer?
--> 6m seems good.
5. Colors: What colors do you prefer for the mainbody? Grey or beige or white or black? We made these four colors camper trailer.
And the drawbar is hot dipped gal - do you think we need paint the drawbar or just leave original gal silver?
--> White seems to be the most popular here. Gal drawbar is ok.
Thanks mate! Cheers!
Anyone who helps can get discount buying campers from me! :cheers:
Answers are above.
More points. Is the main body too close to the towing vehicle? Can all tail gates on the tow vehicle still be opened?
Where is the gas bottle stored?
What kind of cost are looking at ?
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Hi,
1. Pop-top style: will people want to spend more money on this pop-top design or just keep flat top and save cost?
A: Pop-top gives height while stopped and less drag while towing. Different people will like either design.
Factors in the decision will be things like the owner's height, are over-head cupboards wanted or not, pop-tops are better for the warmer climates to the North of Australia, they loose a lot of heat in colder climates, owners storage/carport height - may be able to get a pop-top under cover, but not a full height van.
I think you should offer both versions.
2. Silde out kitchen set: do you like to move the kitchen to outside of the caravan so it can be cleaner inside and more space?
A: Yes! For most of the time. But can you squeeze a small burner in on a bench inside for making a hot drink on a cold morning or heating a meal when the weather is terrible.
My Innovan has this arrangement and I really like it.
3. Gate position: as you can see the gate is at the rear of the caravan while some models have gate in the front? Is that important?
A:What do you mean by 'gate'? Is that the Jerry can rack and spare tyre mount?
The position would be decided by the potential owner I would imagine. It depends on what is wanted where for how it will be used. Some users will want to carry very little out side, others will need to carry extra fuel and maybe even 2 spare wheels.
4. Whole length: I need to control it no more than 6000mm because the shipping container is 6000mm or 12000mm. What length do you prefer?
A:One size will not suit every body, personally 6m would suit my needs.
5. Colors: What colors do you prefer for the mainbody? Grey or beige or white or black? We made these four colors camper trailer.
A:I like the Aluminium checker plate on the lower part of the van, and I would choose white for the rest. Others may prefer another variation.
And the drawbar is hot dipped gal - do you think we need paint the drawbar or just leave original gal silver?
A:Painting components that low will only get stone chipped, the galvanised finish is fine.
cheers
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1. Pop-top style: will people want to spend more money on this pop-top design or just keep flat top and save cost?Yes to pop top, I like the fact that what i'm towing is lower than my Tug.
2. Silde out kitchen set: do you like to move the kitchen to outside of the caravan so it can be cleaner inside and more space? Much prefer to cook outside
3. Gate position: as you can see the gate is at the rear of the caravan while some models have gate in the front? Is that important? If you mean the door I prefer the passenger side as you are off the road when you pull up, and you can also see is you have a Darwin moment and the door comes open in transit.
4. Whole length: I need to control it no more than 6000mm because the shipping container is 6000mm or 12000mm. What length do
you prefer? 6m + rear bar as this can be bolted on later
5. Colors: What colors do you prefer for the mainbody? Grey or beige or white or black? We made these four colors camper trailer.
And the drawbar is hot dipped gal - do you think we need paint the drawbar or just leave original gal silver?
Thanks mate! Cheers!
Anyone who helps can get discount buying campers from me! :cheers:
[/quote]
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Personally, i don't want to offend anyone here.. But seriously!!!!
For a manufacturer from China wanting to knock off a well built Australian made Camper, by posting onto this forum and literially putting pictures of the product they are about to "COPY" onto this web site and ask for feedback.
I like the next product from china like anyone... But seriously! Why would you post this?
Your question can be easily answered! Firstly... You want to COPY their design. Well if you are thinking about it, then it must be worthwhile. Secondly i am NO longer going to post any of the suggested build tips onto this forum, if people in China are sitting there ready to knock off and copy any good idea that someone in Aussie can come up with.
I personally don't think we need threads like this on MySwag. Mods i think you should step in and remove this thread.!
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They cant make Aussies in China but there seem no limit on what ever else . China inports dont seem to stand up well , based on past porformance that is in Aussie conditions . So once again its buyer beware :cheers:
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Personally, i don't want to offend anyone here.. But seriously!!!!
For a manufacturer from China wanting to knock off a well built Australian made Camper, by posting onto this forum and literially putting pictures of the product they are about to "COPY" onto this web site and ask for feedback.
I like the next product from china like anyone... But seriously! Why would you post this?
Your question can be easily answered! Firstly... You want to COPY their design. Well if you are thinking about it, then it must be worthwhile. Secondly i am NO longer going to post any of the suggested build tips onto this forum, if people in China are sitting there ready to knock off and copy any good idea that someone in Aussie can come up with.
I personally don't think we need threads like this on MySwag. Mods i think you should step in and remove this thread.!
X2
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Thats a great photo of Dicky Beach..........wish you could actually camp there.
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Personally, i don't want to offend anyone here.. But seriously!!!!
For a manufacturer from China wanting to knock off a well built Australian made Camper, by posting onto this forum and literially putting pictures of the product they are about to "COPY" onto this web site and ask for feedback.
I like the next product from china like anyone... But seriously! Why would you post this?
Your question can be easily answered! Firstly... You want to COPY their design. Well if you are thinking about it, then it must be worthwhile. Secondly i am NO longer going to post any of the suggested build tips onto this forum, if people in China are sitting there ready to knock off and copy any good idea that someone in Aussie can come up with.
I personally don't think we need threads like this on MySwag. Mods i think you should step in and remove this thread.!
Yeah, like no-one in Australia ever copies other people designs. And pigs might fly.
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i think the chinese can copy anything , but with big problems.......quality is never a 1st concern with them and we all end up blowing our hard earned dough. I personally stay clear of anything chinese.
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Honestly, look at the design being copied. It's a slab sided pop top fabricated with readily available materials. I ask you, what is so unique about it that hasn't already been done and copied in Australia by rival manufacturers over the last 20 years. Give him a go, if he can come into the market at a reasonable price, then maybe the Australian manufacturers may be prompted to sharpen their pencils.
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I ask you, what is so unique about it that hasn't already been done and copied in Australia by rival manufacturers over the last 20 years.
Given that the product only came on the market about 4 years ago, no one was copying it 20 years ago, so it's fairly unique.
Mine's number 39 and I wouldn't consider a copy from China, China.
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Regretfully things get copied all the time by the Chinese. I cannot see any harm from what is being asked. You have the option to reply or not.
We know that the quality would not be there but I suppose at half the price people will be happy to buy one.
We may all whinge and complain but you will see more and more of this in the future. The Chinese products are here to stay and there is a market for the right product if someone advised them what quality they wanted.
I know we should all support Australian products but sometimes the bargains are made elsewhere.
The opportunities are there.
Mark
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I agree Mark, reply or not.
At least he was honest enough to say he was manufacturing in China. Could have been sneaky about it.
Personally I prefer to buy Australian when it is available and the quality is better, just like I prefer to buy meat from a butcher rather than one of the big supermarkets, however the big supermarkets are open until midnight so sometimes it is more convenient for me.
Be careful what you wish for because it may actually happen. A world without competition could be a very expensive mistake.
Bunyip.
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Personally, i don't want to offend anyone here.. But seriously!!!!
For a manufacturer from China wanting to knock off a well built Australian made Camper, by posting onto this forum and literially putting pictures of the product they are about to "COPY" onto this web site and ask for feedback.
I like the next product from china like anyone... But seriously! Why would you post this?
Your question can be easily answered! Firstly... You want to COPY their design. Well if you are thinking about it, then it must be worthwhile. Secondly i am NO longer going to post any of the suggested build tips onto this forum, if people in China are sitting there ready to knock off and copy any good idea that someone in Aussie can come up with.
I personally don't think we need threads like this on MySwag. Mods i think you should step in and remove this thread.!
What? like this: http://www.myswag.org/gallery/v/bigjules/Mallee+Tracks/?g2_page=2 (http://www.myswag.org/gallery/v/bigjules/Mallee+Tracks/?g2_page=2)
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What? like this: http://www.myswag.org/gallery/v/bigjules/Mallee+Tracks/?g2_page=2 (http://www.myswag.org/gallery/v/bigjules/Mallee+Tracks/?g2_page=2)
HAHAHA ! ... whats good for one ... is good for the other !
A world without competition could be a very expensive mistake.
Is it just me or do other people find it strange that you can buy a 4x4 hilux with a motor / gearbox / diffs / computors for around $50k , but you have to pay $82k + for a caravan .
Good luck to the guy ... at least he had the balls to admit what he was doing and not slink around here looking for idea's .I hope he does well , it might give the big names something to think about when it comes to their pricing .
jderry ... quick ... you had better delete your build thread all together ...lol
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I have looked into these vans as they are the next type we will buy- if we could find anything on the market to suit- but we are having to look at a 18" foot bushtracker as the only ready made alternative- around 1 tonne heavier than where I would like to be.
The "hybrid" market has one design feature missing at the moment and that is providing room for kids.
I have thought long and hard about this and my only option was to build my own (havn't got there yet or found anyone prepaired to build what I would like)- but I will give you some advice.
We have currently what is a "expanda van" the bed ends pop out- in our case both ends- this van also contains a internal shower/ toilet and inside cooking
total length for ours is 6.4m body length is 4.7m
http://myswag.org/forum/index.php?topic=5968.msg86524#msg86524 (http://myswag.org/forum/index.php?topic=5968.msg86524#msg86524)
includes a florr plan of the van
Now I believe you could loose a little bit of length if you move the kitchen outside (not all of it still need a small sink and 2 burner stove)
the rear fold out bed end needs to be replaced with bunks- rear fold out by design sucks in dust, but keep the front fold out bed for more space.
Fridge unit could also be moved outside alowing for more benchspace inside
I don't like the pop top- prefer the matrix full van- has more storage space
need to narrow the van up like the quantum as well.
now for the fun stuff- suspension- these things are heavy around 2 tonne (both mine windsor Rapid and the quantum) needs to be very well made.
below are some maximums I would be working off
needs approx 250kg water (has shower and toilet)
empty weight around 1600kg
ATM 2200kg
GTM 2000kg
ball weight 200kg
you want 6m length- ship without tow hitch will save 100mm
should give external body length 4.5m
max width external 2.0m
have fun :cheers:
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G'day Allenpeng and welcome to the forum mate.
Persopnally, I think you are probably very correct in what you are attempting to do mate.
I further think that these hybrid or "crossover": type campers are he way of the future for many of us who are fast approaching the age were a true camper trailer is becoming too much to handle ie to heavy and difficult to pitch. Yet we don't feel old enough to regress to a bloody true caravan yet.
Nothing of this nature is available here that is anywhere like in the price range of the average bloke on average wages. I think this is why so many of us build our own. If you can offer a genuine crossover style camper at a more affordable price, then I say go for it.
To try to answer your questions though, here are my humble thoughts,
1. Pop-top style: will people want to spend more money on this pop-top design or just keep flat top and save cost?
I would suggest adding a pop top as an option.
2. Silde out kitchen set: do you like to move the kitchen to outside of the caravan so it can be cleaner inside and more space?
This would be a must have for me. :cup:
3. Gate position: as you can see the gate is at the rear of the caravan while some models have gate in the front? Is that important?
I would prefer the gate/door at the rear with the ISLAND BED at the front over the slide out kitchen.
4. Whole length: I need to control it no more than 6000mm because the shipping container is 6000mm or 12000mm. What length do
you prefer?
I am looking at building something smlilar to your picture (for myself) I was thinking along the lines of a body length of about 3500mm with a drawbar length of 2500mm. This would provide space for a fridge/generator box and an adequate/big tool box in front on the drawbar..
5. Colors: What colors do you prefer for the mainbody? Grey or beige or white or black? We made these four colors camper trailer.
And the drawbar is hot dipped gal - do you think we need paint the drawbar or just
I think you probably should look at offering a choice of colours. My preference would be for a military style drab olive or tan.
Good luck with your venture mate. I think you are on a winner provided you build a robust and functional trailer. Work out how strong you think it needs to be and then double that figure and you will be getting close.
Mick
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Mate the best suggestion I can give you is to spend more time on quality control and keep things simple.
Even the highways in Australia are quite harsh so we want campers that we can take away and not worry about bits falling off.
A lot of people are also happy to add bits on later if they have a solid unit to start with.
Try and find one or two things to do that stand out from the crowd.
Good luck
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What? like this: http://www.myswag.org/gallery/v/bigjules/Mallee+Tracks/?g2_page=2 (http://www.myswag.org/gallery/v/bigjules/Mallee+Tracks/?g2_page=2)
To suggest that Mallee Tracks are a rip off is completely wrong. There has been variations of the recovery track since WWII. it is like suggesting any side fold canvas camper is a copy of the very first one.
The issue that Justin has raised is the use of the photo of someone else's camper and the suggestion that this will be copied.
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The thing is anyone who buys the cheap imported version was probably never going to buy the local unit based on price anyway.
The world is shrinking and I believe aussie built will stand the test of time for premium buyers but if someone wants to tackle that end of the market then that should be okay.
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What about looking at these style of vans http://www.conqueroraustralia.com.au/plugins/content/plugin_jw_sig/showthumb.php?img=490/b.web1.jpg&width=200&height=200&quality=80 (http://www.conqueroraustralia.com.au/plugins/content/plugin_jw_sig/showthumb.php?img=490/b.web1.jpg&width=200&height=200&quality=80) and http://blondesearch.ru/play/QpauUSmtJmA/UEV_490_Conqueror_Australia_off_road_trailer.html (http://blondesearch.ru/play/QpauUSmtJmA/UEV_490_Conqueror_Australia_off_road_trailer.html)
Everything you could ask for including somewhere for the kids to sleep .
Yes mates thanks for your advices and there are 3 details I want to get camper guy's opinions-
1. Pop-top style: will people want to spend more money on this pop-top design or just keep flat top and save cost?
2. Silde out kitchen set: do you like to move the kitchen to outside of the caravan so it can be cleaner inside and more space?
3. Gate position: as you can see the gate is at the rear of the caravan while some models have gate in the front? Is that important?
4. Whole length: I need to control it no more than 6000mm because the shipping container is 6000mm or 12000mm. What length do
you prefer?
5. Colors: What colors do you prefer for the mainbody? Grey or beige or white or black? We made these four colors camper trailer.
And the drawbar is hot dipped gal - do you think we need paint the drawbar or just leave original gal silver?
Thanks mate! Cheers!
Anyone who helps can get discount buying campers from me! :cheers:
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We were all set to buy a Conqueror then at one of the show LB stood beside the kitchen and realised it was so high that she would have trouble seeing what was cooking in the pots on the stove! OK, she may not be the tallest person around but is not THAT short :D.
Ended up turning us off and we are going to move to a KK now.
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Alanpeng, I can't add anything to the design comments... It's all been said by other contributors.
However, I would underline the comments about quality and robustness.
Chinese products have a poor reputation in Australia, being seen as built poorly to keep the price low. Whether this is right or wrong, it is just the way it is. Taiwan, Korea, and Japan all faced the same problem when they first started to export to Australia.
Part of the problem is that Australian conditions are very harsh, and products that don't take that into account don't survive here, damaging the manufacturer's reputation in the process.
As an example, Toyota and Nissan overcame the problem by building a 4WD that could survive the Australian conditions, Kia and Great Wall still have to learn this lesson.
Cheap campers are plentiful in Australia, but they do not fare well. If you are going to do this, you need to build something that can survive more than a couple of trips before becoming a wreck.
If you are serious, you'll need to trial your prototype. I've trialled vehicles in the past, and it isn't simply a matter of going out for the weekend. Your prototype is going to have to spend at least a month on all types of roads.... Australian roads.... before you know what will break.
I'm not saying you should bush-bash the prototype, but you need to take it the places your target market is likely to take it.... And it needs to come out the other side without major faults.
Another thing.... Australians hate being lied to. If you are going to market as an off-road unit, then make sure it is capable of weeks of corrugated dirt highways and the occasional river crossing. If not, then market as an on-road unit.
If you really want to trial your prototype, let me know. I normally rent a camper for my annual family holiday, and I normally write a performance report for the manufacturer as a courtesy. Perhaps we can arrange for your prototype to spend four weeks doing what Australians will expect it to be able to do.
Good luck with your business venture.
Cheers, Bob
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Comments that I have deamed as borderline racist have been deleted and will NOT be tolerated.
Cheers, Craig
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Thank you
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Just another note re Chinese vs Australian build. I don't have much experience with caravans (currently have a Jayco Eagle) but have owned 4 different horse floats over the last 10 years or so.
It seems the caravan world and horse float world has many similarities when looking at different brands.
When I bought my last float, I investigated Australian made floats and a particular brand Chinese built float. The Australian made ones were generally strongly made with robustness and safety for horses and owners alike.
The Chinese built one was very flash, cheap in price in comparison, but lacked so much re safety it was scary. Light weight steel frame underneath, rust starting to show on floats still in the display yard! The chinese brand definitely doesn't advertise where it is made and tend to be cagey when asked.
I would suggest, be careful when choosing an overseas made caravan, it may look like it has everything that opens and shuts, but it's what's underneath and how it's built that counts.
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LOL .... how short is she ?.
We were all set to buy a Conqueror then at one of the show LB stood beside the kitchen and realised it was so high that she would have trouble seeing what was cooking in the pots on the stove! OK, she may not be the tallest person around but is not THAT short :D.
Ended up turning us off and we are going to move to a KK now.
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LB stood beside the kitchen and realised it was so high that she would have trouble seeing what was cooking in the pots on the stove!
Hi,
I was looking at a Cambridge Caravan (smaller fiber glass model made locally) but I couldn't stand at the sink and wash-up. The pan of the sink was too low to reach my hands into with out bending my back or standing with feet apart. My feet were too long to stand close to the sink (no foot space under the cabinet) and my face was jammed hard up against an over head cupboard that had no right being right above the sink.
Ok, my Innovan isn't perfect either in foot space department either. It is just one of my pet hates having no foot space under cupboards/benches that are designed to be stood by to work.
So allenpeng, if you are designing from the ground up on a new design, consider some foot-space for us bigger footed & taller blokes for your sink / stove space and working benches.
cheers
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rockman,
I refuse to comment on the grounds it may incriminate me even more ;D
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I have looked into these vans as they are the next type we will buy- if we could find anything on the market to suit- but we are having to look at a 18" foot bushtracker as the only ready made alternative- around 1 tonne heavier than where I would like to be.
The "hybrid" market has one design feature missing at the moment and that is providing room for kids....
My Quantum has 2 kids beds, a single bunk above the main bed plus the table converts to a second bed. You can also get a double bunk instead of the single, for a total of 3 kids beds.
Having 2 kids in the van is a bit squeezy, but you go camping to be outside (hence the outside kitchen) and only go inside to sleep. Many years ago I had a Windsor Rapid but as good as they are, I have found my Quantum to fit my family requirments better.
Cheers
Captain
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Personally, i don't want to offend anyone here.. But seriously!!!!
For a manufacturer from China wanting to knock off a well built Australian made Camper, by posting onto this forum and literially putting pictures of the product they are about to "COPY" onto this web site and ask for feedback.
Your question can be easily answered! Firstly... You want to COPY their design. Well if you are thinking about it, then it must be worthwhile. Secondly i am NO longer going to post any of the suggested build tips onto this forum, if people in China are sitting there ready to knock off and copy any good idea that someone in Aussie can come up with.
Firstly, instead of just writing 'I'm going to build a van, what do you think?' Ask 10 people, you'd most likely get 8 varations I what they envision he'd be building. I believe the pic was posted so readers could see what he had in mind.
As for copying & knock-offs...isn't there a build story here where not just 1, but 2 near enough replica of a CT was built...by Aussies?
And what about this CT's build story title/heading "New Camper Build - Cross Between Ultimate & Kimberly Karavan"
Sure, they were copied for personal usage, & not mass production...but mass production could just as easily been the idea!
Do I agree with the what this thread is about? No!
But I don't like hypocrites either.
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Well said
:cheers:
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Well said
:cheers:
Seems I have an apology to make
Seems I have offended a few people on this thread ... Lol
Justin , I make a joke that you should delete your thread build , a joke , as you had mentioned that you where going to do in case there where people watching and taking idea's from your build .
For that I will apoligize .
The people that contacted Justin regarding my comment , what-ever !
Actually had a bit of a think about it , those people that I must have offended ,you know who you are , here's my email address theearthworksco@qldnet.com.au , if you have a pair , email me with your concerns on how I offended Justin or his camper , he already has .
I will gracefully bow out of this thread and most likely the forum .
Seems there is too many precious people on here now that easly offended if you don't agree with them and unfortunately for me , if I have something to say , it will be said .
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Seems I have an apology to make
Seems I have offended a few people on this thread ... Lol
Struggling to see where, have i missed something?
I can see there are differing views on the approach this thread took, but hey, we're all reponsible adults here!
Dont see any reason for Rockman to cut & run ???
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I'm with Mace,
A little robust discussion never hurt anyone, not that this has really even got robust.
Bunyip
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Same here but apparently I have said ' un nice ' things and a few people have taken offence .
Pretty poor when you can't have a joke about something ... everyone is so
Hell ... I even had McGirr call my camper build nothing more then a pie van ... I didn't race off and have a sook about it 8) .
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I have removed the images from Allenpeng posts.
I dont have a problem with someone asking for feedback on a design of a camper but displaying photos of someones else's product from their website and stating they will copy it, I feel is not on. Now if Allenpeng wishes to display his/her own product images then that is fine, but I wont allow images of someone else's Brand / Logo.
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Wow I missed all the fun and it wasn't even in the electrical section :)
My 2 cents, I'm ok with a DIYer taking an existing design and making a one off for themselves. When you take an existing design and use it for your own benefit, i.e. manufacture to sell, that is where I draw the line. The idea proposed by the original request is bordering on intellectual property theft.
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That is fair, Brett
From my limited knowledge of this subject what Westerners know as copying or infringement of intellectual property, registered designs etc is absolutely no problem in some other cultures. It is absolutley no issue culturally and legally and in fact is regarded in a positive way - as a form of flattery!
I remember Mike Simcoe, "Mr Monaro" and an executive director of design at Holden/GM saying :"They've even copied our mistakes," in reference to copied GM car designs
The multitude of copied hardware; everything from small gennies, utes and about a million other items is testament to this 'culture'.
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What about looking at these style of vans http://www.conqueroraustralia.com.au/plugins/content/plugin_jw_sig/showthumb.php?img=490/b.web1.jpg&width=200&height=200&quality=80 (http://www.conqueroraustralia.com.au/plugins/content/plugin_jw_sig/showthumb.php?img=490/b.web1.jpg&width=200&height=200&quality=80) and http://blondesearch.ru/play/QpauUSmtJmA/UEV_490_Conqueror_Australia_off_road_trailer.html (http://blondesearch.ru/play/QpauUSmtJmA/UEV_490_Conqueror_Australia_off_road_trailer.html)
Everything you could ask for including somewhere for the kids to sleep .
Conqueror australia are one of the biggest price gougers out there. Virtually the exact same models are about 1/3 of the price in sth africa than here.....
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Conqueror australia are one of the biggest price gougers out there. Virtually the exact same models are about 1/3 of the price in sth africa than here.....
He didn't say buy one, and anyway maybe it's the price of doing business in this country
that makes em that dear.
Import duty, warranty, advertising and promotion of the product, after-sales
service not to mention the cost of a premises to run from.
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He didn't say buy one, and anyway maybe it's the price of doing business in this country
that makes em that dear.
Import duty, warranty, advertising and promotion of the product, after-sales
service not to mention the cost of a premises to run from.
I didn't tell him to buy one. Merely pointing out that competition is good thing, as without it - the abovementioned business turns a 25k camper into a 70k one. Is gouging included in the costs of doing business in this country.....
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I didn't tell him to buy one. Merely pointing out that competition is good thing, as without it - the abovementioned business turns a 25k camper into a 70k one. Is gouging included in the costs of doing business in this country.....
"Rockman didn't tell him to buy one" and I fail to see what gouging or competition has
to do with this thread ?
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"Rockman didn't tell him to buy one" and I fail to see what gouging or competition has
to do with this thread ?
if the OP is going to build and then sell campers, then he is the competition - therefore this whole thread is about competition.....
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Going to ? one day the world will end too. PMSL
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Well done Brett, as said , we have an ethical way of doing things in this country.
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I'm not sure we are all that ethical when it comes to CT design.... Trak Shak and Deluxe are identicle, and I doubt anyone knows who copied who in the KK, Pioneer, AORC, etc vein.
The small 'box on wheels' type is so common that I doubt anyone could hold a patent, so making one more isn't unethicle or immoral.
I doubt alanpeng was saying he is going to copy that example exactly, because he was asking for input into what people liked/disliked in the concept.
I'll concede that it was poor form to use someone else's commercial pictures (those are copyright), but thats a long way from unethical to build yet another small pop top camper.
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Glad to see someone else sees it for what it is DiverBob...must be something to do with the name ;D